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    Ring yardstick...

    WR lapped the Ring in a 997TT in 7:49. PAG claims the new 997.2 CS laps the Ring in 7:50. Pretty close. How can this be as the TT by any other benchmark (0-100km/h, 100-200, etc.) is significantly faster than (the previous CS).
    I do not think that being heavier should be the reason, as it is lighter than the GTR and that claims 7:29.

    Comments?

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    I would believe some of the reasons the turbo is only 1 sec. (claimed) faster are due in part to the softer suspension, more weight, and PDK > Tiptronic. (Unless, of course that time is with a six speed turbo.)

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Quote:
    devo said:
    I would believe some of the reasons the turbo is only 1 sec. (claimed) faster are due in part to the softer suspension, more weight, and PDK > Tiptronic. (Unless, of course that time is with a six speed turbo.)



    * Soft suspension? PASM has 2 settings; Sport is pretty stiff.
    * Weight? The GTR weighs more and the Turbo is only 200lbs heavier than a ZR1.
    * Tranny diff. May explain a little advantage, but not a overwhelming factor.

    More reasons?

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    I would believe some of the reasons the turbo is only 1 sec. (claimed) faster are due in part to the softer suspension, more weight, and PDK > Tiptronic. (Unless, of course that time is with a six speed turbo.)



    * Soft suspension? PASM has 2 settings; Sport is pretty stiff.
    * Weight? The GTR weighs more and the Turbo is only 200lbs heavier than a ZR1.
    * Tranny diff. May explain a little advantage, but not a overwhelming factor.

    More reasons?



    I am not by any means claiming to be an expert. With that said, the turbo's suspension IS softer than the pre-facelifted 997S, and I'm quite certain that the 997.2 will be no different, even without SPASM, whether you're comparing normal to normal or sport to sport. There are many track videos that show the turbo moving around quite a bit during hard cornering. Let's face it, PAG softened the current turbo to attract more custumers; as in more from the Merc side who have no intention of ever tracking a car and like a more forgiving ride. I am not the first to note this. Why do you think there is an entire thread on the forum asking if an after-market suspension is needed for the turbo?

    You asked for reasons why the times are so close. So,when comparing the NA 997S to the tt, one would have to consider the roughly >300 lb. disparity.

    I am not comparing the tt to the GTR. I also believe that Nissan has supplied "ringers" for this ridiculous ring time.
    Physics do not support this type of time, no matter how much Nissan claims that it is "how the power is applied".

    I am not saying that any one of these issues make for a substantially slower car, but combined they very well may affect its true track performance. I'm sure that a small part of the equation goes to PAG's creative marketing.

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    I would believe some of the reasons the turbo is only 1 sec. (claimed) faster are due in part to the softer suspension, more weight, and PDK > Tiptronic. (Unless, of course that time is with a six speed turbo.)



    * Soft suspension? PASM has 2 settings; Sport is pretty stiff.
    * Weight? The GTR weighs more and the Turbo is only 200lbs heavier than a ZR1.
    * Tranny diff. May explain a little advantage, but not a overwhelming factor.

    More reasons?



    Basically, PASM in sport mode is way too harsh and I believe I did read that WR's timed lap was done in normal mode. Normal mode to me had a "pogo" feel to it that was a little unsettling. Damptronics upgrade got rid of both of these negatives.

    Second I do believe that Porsche dialed in some oversteer into the 4wd system that the 996 did not have.

    So with the PASM geared toward GT behavior and 4wd geared to be slightly more fun than neutral, the Turbo is not really the track monster it could be. But a few mods can take care of thats what you really want

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Thanks devo and thuggy. Great perspectives.

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    I would believe some of the reasons the turbo is only 1 sec. (claimed) faster are due in part to the softer suspension, more weight, and PDK > Tiptronic. (Unless, of course that time is with a six speed turbo.)



    * Soft suspension? PASM has 2 settings; Sport is pretty stiff.
    * Weight? The GTR weighs more and the Turbo is only 200lbs heavier than a ZR1.
    * Tranny diff. May explain a little advantage, but not a overwhelming factor.

    More reasons?



    Basically, PASM in sport mode is way too harsh and I believe I did read that WR's timed lap was done in normal mode. Normal mode to me had a "pogo" feel to it that was a little unsettling. Damptronics upgrade got rid of both of these negatives.

    Second I do believe that Porsche dialed in some oversteer into the 4wd system that the 996 did not have.

    So with the PASM geared toward GT behavior and 4wd geared to be slightly more fun than neutral, the Turbo is not really the track monster it could be. But a few mods can take care of thats what you really want



    Yeah.. normal mode felt like a pogo stick to me. I never drove in that mode unless the girlfriend was with me and I got the "what the fock" look.

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    so the question is how fast can the next 997TT do on the RING?

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Quote:
    WR said:
    so the question is how fast can the next 997TT do on the RING?



    Well that really depends on whether Porsche feels like deviating from the segmentation strategy of having the turbo as the GT 911

    I look at what the Techart GTstreet can do at 7:39 in the hands of HvS as what the platform can do. American tuners can match to exceed the GT street performance with essentially cost effective bolt ons now.

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Quote:
    thuggy said:
    Quote:
    WR said:
    so the question is how fast can the next 997TT do on the RING?



    Well that really depends on whether Porsche feels like deviating from the segmentation strategy of having the turbo as the GT 911

    I look at what the Techart GTstreet can do at 7:39 in the hands of HvS as what the platform can do. American tuners can match to exceed the GT street performance with essentially cost effective bolt ons now.



    Very true. I would think that if PAG offered the SPASM option on the facelifted, revised PTM, PDK (500-510 hp) turbo, that its Ring times would drop a bit. I would think that would make it GTR competitive.

    Re: Ring yardstick...

    Im quite sure that in honestly the ring has changed with respect to being resurfaced, I find it hard to believe all super cars have just dropped 10-20 seconds. They are getting better as always but not by that much.

     
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