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    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Wow, I am travelling this week and missed this - wil just add to the others’ comments, terrific writeup and a real contribution to the forum members’ understanding of the 992.  I did not sense the excitement here of your test of your GTS, so no surprise that the conclusion is: not for me, at least in this form.  You still have another 100,000 km to go to match your 997 mileage, so no rush to replace, yet... kiss


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    RC:
    Joost:
    RC:

    Excellent job, Carlos. Smiley

    You saved me a lot of work.Smiley

    Nah RC, I also look forward to your impressions!

    Dammit, I thought I'm off the hook. Smiley Smiley

    He mental image of RC turning up at Porsche Center Munich in his Performante and asking for a test drive is quite amusing...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Gnil:
    MKSGR:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Thanks guys! I appreciated the kind words wink

    @Alex, I 2ish, that GT3 engine on the 992 chassis will be phenomenal combination and the GT3 Touring is actually my favorite 911 version, but for the use I give it, a high milage all year round daily it wouldnt work out I think... I'm still quite in love with the GTS though for now, we will see what happens

    Carlos, how much improvement in terms of front axle grip did you experience? The test car did not have Corsa tires, of course. But how would you compare front axle grip with a 991 GT3, for example?

    I would say, after my test drive on a mountain road, that it is pretty close , if not identical . I did of course not push it as hard as I would on a track . Only difference is sharpness and precision , but then , again , the 992 is closing in . 

    Many thanks, very interesting Smiley


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Carlos from Spain:
    MKSGR:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Thanks guys! I appreciated the kind words wink

    @Alex, I 2ish, that GT3 engine on the 992 chassis will be phenomenal combination and the GT3 Touring is actually my favorite 911 version, but for the use I give it, a high milage all year round daily it wouldnt work out I think... I'm still quite in love with the GTS though for now, we will see what happens

    Carlos, how much improvement in terms of front axle grip did you experience? The test car did not have Corsa tires, of course. But how would you compare front axle grip with a 991 GT3, for example?

    Thankfully Gnil already answered that since he is much more qualified to make that comparison than I kiss

    Smiley


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    996FourEss:
    RC:
    Joost:
    RC:

    Excellent job, Carlos. Smiley

    You saved me a lot of work.Smiley

    Nah RC, I also look forward to your impressions!

    Dammit, I thought I'm off the hook. Smiley Smiley

    He mental image of RC turning up at Porsche Center Munich in his Performante and asking for a test drive is quite amusing...

    Don't worry, no problem. MAHAG Munich owns the biggest Porsche dealership in Munich...and Audi and Lamborghini Munich. Smiley Everything and everyone is connected in some way. No worries. Smiley Smiley So I basically got my Lamborghini from the biggest Porsche dealer in Munich. Smiley Even funnier: MAHAG is owned by...Volkswagen. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Carlos

    i was given the opportunity to drive a neighbours new 992s and I couldn’t have articulated the experience better than you wrote you’re review 

    i drive a 991 gts so completely get it

    hoping to get a 992 gt3 touring if possible

    Thanks for the review


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thanks! The 992 GT3 Touring would be my pick of the 992 lineup too, especially coming from a 991.1 GTS now that GT3 is the only NA left.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Carlos from Spain:

    Thanks! The 992 GT3 Touring would be my pick of the 992 lineup too, especially coming from a 991.1 GTS now that GT3 is the only NA left.

    Wholeheartedly agree!   As regulations strangle the performance car market in the EU, the States remain a bastion for this breed of vehicle.  Hope Porsche realizes this and diverts a substantial portion of production here, of course, in the interests of keeping the breed healthy.  


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thanks for the detailed review, Carlos.

    What brand tires did this 992 have?

    Recently saw a video of a 992 on a ?Swedish track where reviewer claimed the Goodyear tires of that 992 were the weakest dynamic piece of the car, compromising braking and chassis severely.  And, at that event, all the 992s were equipped with Goodyear tires, generating similar complaints from other drivers.

    I may be mistaken, but my sense is that Porsche doesn't yet have Porsche-spec Michelin tires available for 992.  If true, that seems odd, especially given how specific, manufacturer-calibrated tires are such a critical, differentiating element of performance in various dimensions: lap times, braking distances, "feel" of brakes&chassis, wet vs dry attributes, etc.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Yes, they were the Goodyear's, however in the dry and hot weather and good roads I had here they performed well, I had no complaints regarding handling and grip, and I'm quite picky regarding tires. But in different than ideal weather conditions and specially in a track (I didn't track the car, only mountain roads) it may have been different, which may be what happened at the swedish track event.

    Wouldn't be the first time this happens, when the 991 came out it came with only Pirelli PZeros, and they were HORRIBLE in wet, hard to believe how bad they were, and the N1 version that came out late was not much better. Only after something like 3 years came the Michelin PSS4 and those are absolutely fantastic in all conditions.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Appreciate the clarification, Carlos

    Indeed, wet road performance is often a weakness, and, agree, Porsche-spec Michelin PS4 are probably the current benchmark for non-track tires

    I very much prefer the lightweight, performance-focused ethos of the GT3/RS or GT2RS (vs even the most light, performance-spec'd GTS or TTS), but find GTx factory-spec tires to be overly track-optimized, for anyone who seeks to enjoy their car in both daily driving (including in the rain), as well as on coastal mountain roads where one often encounters early morning mist/fog & damp stretches of roads

    Perhaps the allegedly broader 992GTx offerings will include some factory-spec tires that solve vs those rain/wet driving scenarios


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Since Carlos already mentioned all the important points, I will summarize my driving experience (992 Carrera 4S Cabriolet) to a few short points:

    • Very easy to drive, this is a car I would even give a beginner to drive, no kidding (the power output is of course a bit too much for beginners).
    • Even in Sport Plus mode very difficult to provoke uncontrollable driving reactions, very safe setup.
    • Excellent daily driver capabilities, very comfortable (chassis, steering, noise level).
    • Not worth 160k EUR in my opinion, this is a car I would pay 120k for.
    • Very nice interior, kind of has a 993 vibe but the "wow effect" is missing, quality impression is in the league with Audi but not a 160k car, sorry to say that.
    • Exhaust sound (keep in mind this is the cabriolet I am talking about and I was driving with the top open only) is very muted, even with sport exhaust barely noticeable, not even in the upper rev range. For a comfortable ride definitely the right sound but for a sports car? No. I was driving in Sport Plus most of the time but the sound is very very disappointing.
    • There is a very very very annoying fake(?) "waste gate blow-off sound" when you accelerate hard and release the throttle. Who in his sane mind approved this? It sounds ridiculous, bad, annoying, just plain wrong. I know the original waste gate blow off sounds from older turbo charged cars and I mostly like them but this one in the 992 sounds stupid.
    • Instrument cluster display and navigation system display have a very strong mirror effect, very very bad. When the sun shines from a certain angle when you drive with an open top, you can barely recognize what is on the navigation display. The instrument cluster display isn't that bad but still...it is annoying.
    • The new "gear lever" works well but sometimes requires a firmer operation. I think Porsche should have taken a micro switch type of operation approach instead of a "mechanic lever" feel approach. If you do not apply enough force, you can end up in N for example, instead of D. Or vice versa.
    • The steering paddles are too small and too short but maybe I am biased because I drive a Lamborghini. Still, I don't like them.
    • Shifting manually is no fun in the 992, sorry to say that. It feels a bit "detached" and artificial, it is difficult to explain but the automatic mode of PDK is the best way to go with.
    • The PDK auto mode works pretty well, no need to shift the gears manually, unless you really want to (you don't, trust me).
    • The front seats are excellent, typical Porsche. No complaints here.
    • The engine feels powerful but it lacks the "punch" of the V8 Biturbo in my wife's C63 S AMG Cabriolet, especially in the lower and mid rev range. My wife drove the 992 as well and this is the first thing she noticed, she thought the 992 is much slower than her C63 S (it isn't).
    • There is a turbo lag, you can clearly feel it is a turbo engine but surprisingly, it feels better in the higher speed range. Porsche managed to give the 992 engine a slight n/a engine feel in the upper rev range, which is nice.
    • The chassis is sporty and comfortable at the same time, for a daily driver probably the best setup on the market, combining both worlds (comfort and sportiness) in perfection. Unfortunately the chassis feels a bit, how to put it, too "soft", everything is "moving", it just doesn't feel firm and like a sports car. It is difficult to explain but my E63 S "taxi" chassis feels firmer, there is less "movement" in the body, especially in curves and I am not talking about side roll. Everything about the 992 chassis screams "comfort" to me, not my cup of tea, sorry to say that.
    • The 992 feels lighter than it is but this probably also has something to do with the excellent steering setup and RWS.
    • The car I drove had Goodyear F1(?) tires and I have to say that I was a little bit perplexed by this choice. They feel a bit "hard" and when you push them hard, they are a little bit smeary, they don't offer the precision I am usually expecting from a Porsche 911. They offer a safe setup, no doubt, the switch to oversteer is very very soft but I just had the feeling that they are not the right tires for a 911. Maybe for a Panamera.
    • The brakes felt OK to me, very good braking feel, typical Porsche again.
    • The roof opens up very very fast, I get the feeling that it is faster than it was in my wife's 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet. Very nice.
    • The new (slightly flatter) key is nice but still not as small as I would have loved to see it. Not that other car manufacturers do better but at least Porsche is on the right path.

     

    VERDICT: The new 992 feels (almost) perfect and this actually seems to be the main problem with this car. It doesn't feel special anymore, it lacks that "wow, I need to have one" feel and it feels like another Mercedes E class or BMW 5 series or maybe an Audi A6 if you get my point. There is no challenge in driving this car, no sweaty hands, no heart palpitations, no excitement, nothing. You just drive it, it offers excellent performance whenever you need it and an impressive amount of comfort and that's it. 

    Yes, this setup is sensationally good, no doubt. It requires a lot of engineering skills and testing to create a car which can be fast on the track but also can move you comfortably from A to B on a daily basis. This is a car you can use all the time, not only a weekend toy for those special moments.

    This is exactly the problem: The 992 Carrera 4S Cabriolet costs a huge amount of money and for this kind of money, you want to have something special, something which puts a smile on your face, something which makes you want more. This car doesn't do it for me, sorry. If I'd need a fantastic daily driver and I could afford to have one car only, this would be it: The 992 Carrera 4S Cabriolet. Everything in one: Sports car, winter car, track car, daily driver and even to move little kids around. As a weekend toy car or special car you want to enjoy from time to time, this is the wrong choice. You'll get bored fast.

    Even my wife's C63 S Cabriolet feels more special due to that monster V8 Biturbo and the nice sound. The chassis feels firmer, the excessive torque is always a bit of a challenge when you drive this car, it just feels special and I'm really not a big fan of the C63 Biturbo (I liked the predecessor with n/a engine a lot).

    So if you are looking for an amazing daily driver sports car, maybe one even your wife or kids can drive from time to time without any major concerns, the 992 Carrera S is perfect. With AWD, this car can be used all year long. 

    If you are looking for a weekend fun toy, something special you want to enjoy, the 992 Carrera S is definitely wrong for you, don't waste your time, you will get rid of it fast. Better wait for the GT3 or get that new Cayman GT4.

    9923.jpg
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    9934.jpg
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    9921.jpg
    9928.jpg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thanks RC; lots of food for thought...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thanks Christian.. A straight to the point reviewkiss


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    My pleasure, guys.

    Btw (don't laugh): My wife drove the car as well and now she wants a...GT3. 

    She already had the upcoming (rumored) 992 GT3 Touring Cab on her mind because she started to like the GT3 rear wing but now she is actually thinking about getting a GT3 Coupe(!) with wing (the Cab won't have a wing) and get a Mazda MX-5 or something similar (cheap) as a cabriolet and daily driver because for the city, she doesn't need a powerful car.

    I truly think she gets her midlife crisis but if she gets a GT3, I won't complain. smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thanks for the review pretty much expected they are further broadening their market appeal, a pal is seriously considering a 992 and he is not a driving enthusiast at all I'm sure he'll love it blush

    The tyre choice is interesting as well (as you hint) they are obviously cutting costs big time, quite shocking sticking this sort of tyre on a 911.


    --

     

     

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thank you for your review. It is a very good description.

    Obviously, the 992 has many deficits as a successor to the 911 dynasty. It appears more like a premium class luxury/sports car rather than a coveted 911.

    Its current attributes might widen its appeal to new customers but equally current 911 owners/admirers might be induced to look elsewhere especially given the elevated price.

     

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    TB993tt:

    Thanks for the review pretty much expected they are further broadening their market appeal, a pal is seriously considering a 992 and he is not a driving enthusiast at all I'm sure he'll love it blush

    Yes. Smiley

    The tyre choice is interesting as well (as you hint) they are obviously cutting costs big time, quite shocking sticking this sort of tyre on a 911.


    --

     

     

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    reginos:

    Thank you for your review. It is a very good description.

    Obviously, the 992 has many deficits as a successor to the 911 dynasty. It appears more like a premium class luxury/sports car rather than a coveted 911.

    No, the 992 has no deficits in the technological department, it is a fine piece of engineering, no doubt about it. I currently do not know a single sports car in this performance category to offer the same easy and comfortable drivability. The car has only deficits in the emotional department and maybe in the quality look/feel department. I would also add the financial department but I guess if people are willing to pay the prices Porsche is asking, they do something right. Smiley

    Its current attributes might widen its appeal to new customers but equally current 911 owners/admirers might be induced to look elsewhere especially given the elevated price.

     

     

    Maybe this is the intention: The Carrera/S for a new audience, the GT cars for enthusiasts and the Turbo/S models for those who want maximum performance and a daily driver but want a stealthier approach to it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thank you RC for your thorough and honest impressions. Porsche made the right choices to increase sales in making the 922 more bland. They will sell plenty of them even at their ridiculously inflated prices. Indeed the GTx line is now the line of choice for this group of car lovers here. They are getting closer to what would be the best seller in their lineup: a GT3 touring can with PDK and 4 seats. Sadly by the time this car comes out, it will be priced in the mid 200s destroying the value that the 911 used to have. At these prices, there is just too much competition and a smaller market.

    PS: these pics confirm my feeling that the interior is a total miss. The buttons, the saver, the unnecessary reflective surfaces... it wants to be everything at the same time: retro, modern and a screen galore. There is no fun and interesting part to it, a bit like the car as a whole.

    Meanwhile there is a class of cars that are coming that will be ultra sporty and ultra practical with an interesting value proposition when factoring total true cost to own.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Very informative Christian, thank you.

    I can't force myself to like the new center console... it's damn damn ugly fugly :(

    9928.jpg


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    +1 this shiny black plastic looks cheap. Doesn't seem like you can even change that with options yes


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Maybe the interior will look better with Alcantara and carbon stuff, maybe.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    I mean the whole console design...looks completely wrong...


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    RC, I am not sure what you are expecting for a 4S. It is the perfect daily. Never been a special car and will never be. That is not the purpose of Carreras. And they will make them even more compliant with the coming hybrid. 

    For the non members of this crowd it is a sportscar. It is a 911. It is a dream. GT cars they have no clue what it is...

    we are not the target for Carreras model...you are driving a performante indecision

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    DaveGordon:

    +1 this shiny black plastic looks cheap. Doesn't seem like you can even change that with options yes

    And not only looks cheap, it also feels cheap to the touch and gets dirty very quickly which only makes it look worse. It is the worst part of the interior imo, can't believe something like that for the green light on a 150k car, I guess they thought it would make it look more modern but it is a fail...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    Thanks for the extensive review, Christian! kiss One of my neighbours has one in "achatgrau" and it looks stunning. However, I'm not a fan of those digital screens. Unfortunately the next GT3 will have them. 

    It doesn't feel special anymore, it lacks that "wow, I need to have one" feel

    Have you ever wondered, if this lack of "wow" feeling was due to the fact that you have had so many 911's in the past. You've said it yourself that you've grown bored of the 911 (or Porsche in general, minus the GT cars). You've fallen in love with Audi R8 and Lambo, because they're new territory and maybe you will feel the same once you've had a few of those. What I'm trying to say is, the older we get, the harder it gets to find that "wow" factor, because we've had plenty of opportunities to get spoilt smiley So in short, it's not the car that is to blame, but it's us and our expectations. 


    --

    2018 White 911 GT3

     


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    There is some of that. But also hard to keep the wow factor up when every generation of regular 911 is less exciting outside, inside and with less and less emotions from the engine and the exhaust while falling behind in technology. Add the ridiculous pace of price increases and the general interest fades away quickly.

    Thankfully they still have th GTx line which still has some serious contenders and great potential. But their price is already hitting cars in another league.


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    As ever the truth is somewhere in the middle

    i have a neighbour who has 992s and is very happy but he does feel the exhaust could be louder.

    i personally read this as the engine should have more emotion, so even a non car enthusiast is feeling a slight lack in the emotion department.

    yes those who have owned the more normal line of Porsche are looking for that X factor which is now only to be found in the gt department

    perhaps porsche know this and hence the pending introduction of the  heritage line which I am anticipating will be reserved for the special cars, hopefully examples such as get touring etc to partially cater for this exact crowd and of course capitalise on it

     


    Re: ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera4S

    I think 911 with all its variants is becoming a utilitarian car & we have other choices for the celebration/performance/collection cars 


     
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