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    Oops, I did it again...

    So a few weeks back a buddy of mine who's owned a few F-cars over the years hooks me up with his sales guy. Invited to the showroom to drive an F430 Spider F1. Came away drooling, but it was not a color I loved. Still love driving my P-car, so it was a fun day, nothing more.

    Until I got NO sleep for 3 days in a row!

    Yesterday I got a call. Red/Tan F430 6sp arrived, '06, 4k miles, bumper was repainted, but otherwise loaded and pristine.

    So I go by to have a look. He tosses me the keys and off we go. Top down, nothing like it. Took me a few shifts to get used to that clutch compared to the Porsche (wow, it engages SO high on the clutch release I was stunned) but I got it down in no time. We blasted through a few side streets and a number of decent twisties, but no full WOT runs.

    OK, so having had the 'lecture' about getting into this club, and nealy puking (I'm not that serious about buying this car).....we get to the details.

    MSRP on the car was around 225k I think. He sold the car originally. Wants 319k for it. Serious money would get that to 295k.

    So I'm losing sleep again. And no, I don't WANT the car THAT badly (well, yeah, I could live with it ) but is there ANY F-car dealer on the planet who will sell these at a reasonable price?

    I know the story, buy it now at a premium, they'll buy it back later and next one is at MSRP, yada yada. I don't give a rat's a$$ about that story. But I wonder, have any of you had an experience in the past few years that was much different from this?

    And don't get me wrong, dealer is as nice a guy as they come. Straight up and easy to talk with. But for a used exotic, with repaint, a good amount of micro swirls in the paint (dumb detailer), and high first year miles, I would suspect a better deal could be had.

    Oh, a few tongue wagger shots:






    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Come live in Australia. I will get you one at a discount. Or at least my multiple Ferrari owning friend will...

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    For some of you who thrive on capitalism... why is supply and demand so hard to accept? Just like Ferrari, Porsche chooses to keep the numbers low for the GT3RS and not surprisingly the prices escalate way over MSRP.

    The fact that you keep thinking of this car and looking for answers on how to get it in your hands says a lot about the passion of ownership for this vehicle. Pay up.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    SoCal...I understand the price of admission. But the ticket I want to pay is 20-40k, NOT 100k. That is just stupid. Yes, it's a helluva ride, but just today I've found 3 others with lower mileage, more options, and for less money. There's bound to be someone out there who will part with their F430 Spider for a few bucks over what they paid....

    So where are they?

    Hey, my phone's not ringing yet!

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    The Dealers will take those cars all day long and give the seller an opportunity to trade up.

    Good luck, you'll need it. Nobody, at this point in time would sell an F430 Spider at $20-40K over. Maybe in 2-3 years!

    You're playing mind games (mental masturbation)

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    very nice and above all is Manual!!!!!

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    cnc said:
    The Dealers will take those cars all day long and give the seller an opportunity to trade up.

    Good luck, you'll need it. Nobody, at this point in time would sell an F430 Spider at $20-40K over. Maybe in 2-3 years!

    You're playing mind games (mental masturbation)




    Well aware. Like I said, if I was dying for the car, I'd have to pay up. NOT dying for it.

    And this same crap was said about the 360. Yet a close buddy of mine was able to work a deal on a brand new 360 at list from a dealer who was looking to sell without gouging. He drove it for a year, sold it at the same price he paid, and got out. Did not gouge, though he could have.

    Just need to find that right situation, and I'm sure it's out there, but the chances are just slim.

    Oh well, not a biggie either way. Still love driving the Porsche.


    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    I just got my 430 spider at MSRP, but I was on the list for four years. If you want to pay 20-40K over MSRP, you will only find a coupe. asking for a 430 spider owner to sell in that range is like me wanting to buy your home under market because I really want your home.I don't think you will sell it to me under market.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    peter...the house is yours, man.


    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Completly understand you and wouldnt act different!

    Well done!

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    OK, so today I go and drive a 997 Turbo. First 997 I've been in with power like that. Unfortunately, not enough seat time or open road to really flex its muscle. But on that same stretch of road, the F430 spider was a BEAST. The turbo was a nice move up from my C4S Cab, but the F-car was light years of fun beyond it.

    I really messed up getting in that 430 and driving it, twice. Damn.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    Eric (Plug Guy) said:
    OK, so today I go and drive a 997 Turbo. First 997 I've been in with power like that. Unfortunately, not enough seat time or open road to really flex its muscle. But on that same stretch of road, the F430 spider was a BEAST. The turbo was a nice move up from my C4S Cab, but the F-car was light years of fun beyond it.

    I really messed up getting in that 430 and driving it, twice. Damn.



    Eric, my advice FWIW. Be single minded in looking for a 430 Spider you want. When you find it, and your heart says money isn't everything, life is too short and I am willing to cut back elsewhere to own this car BUY IT!

    If you plan to remain in the Ferrari family, then buy from a dealer with the understanding that future Ferrari's will be at MSRP. Pay the premium and become part of a club that is able to enjoy driving one of the most coveted and exciting cars on the planet cost free for years to come.

    However, if you are unsure whether you will be buying Ferrari's in the future, then buy from a private seller/broker and get the best price you can negotiate. Later should you change your mind about future Ferrari's you could always consign the car to a dealer and get on his list.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Ok i REALLY need to ask, are all of you in the US??? went to my F dealer about a week ago, told me i could get a Brand new F430 to my spec with in 3 months Not a problem, why is the story SO very differnt in the US??

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    I can get a brand new F430 spider for Sept delivery in the US from at least two dealers. This all came about in the past 3 days, after weeks of thinking about this car and chasing a few new/used ones.

    HOWEVER, with a price north of 325k (US, and that number is around 100k over LIST), I'd be hospitalized by my wife and banker for doing it.


    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    Eric (Plug Guy) said:
    I can get a brand new F430 spider for Sept delivery in the US from at least two dealers. This all came about in the past 3 days, after weeks of thinking about this car and chasing a few new/used ones.




    Is this a new policy by Ferrari dealers now? At least a few of them? No more waiting list, just pay their markup and order the car with the options you want for almost immediate delivery.

    Quote:
    Eric (Plug Guy) said:HOWEVER, with a price north of 325k (US, and that number is around 100k over LIST), I'd be hospitalized by my wife and banker for doing it.





    Why? If that is the market price for that model/year? I know it's high, but that is supposedly the supply/demand price.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    jamesdamanuk1 said:
    Ok i REALLY need to ask, are all of you in the US??? went to my F dealer about a week ago, told me i could get a Brand new F430 to my spec with in 3 months Not a problem, why is the story SO very differnt in the US??



    Simple. More supply in Europe and less in the US relative to their demand. It could all change quickly if Ferrari changes their allocation.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Eric (Plug Guy) said:
    I can get a brand new F430 spider for Sept delivery in the US from at least two dealers. This all came about in the past 3 days, after weeks of thinking about this car and chasing a few new/used ones.




    Is this a new policy by Ferrari dealers now? At least a few of them? No more waiting list, just pay their markup and order the car with the options you want for almost immediate delivery.

    Quote:
    Eric (Plug Guy) said:HOWEVER, with a price north of 325k (US, and that number is around 100k over LIST), I'd be hospitalized by my wife and banker for doing it.





    Why? If that is the market price for that model/year? I know it's high, but that is supposedly the supply/demand price.



    AFAIK, dealers in SF/Greenwich sell F's@MSRP to their many repeat custs w/very reasonable wait times (<6-12mos post-launch)

    In mkts w/less deep buyer bases, dealers logically would rather sell spots at mkt via brokers who can move new F's to deep-money mkts that want them now and will pay for immediacy....been going on for yrs ; there simply isn't a lot of money in Podunk, where many US F dealers are unfortunately located, and FNA allocations haven't adjusted for this reality....not surprising as F was a hard-to-sell new car 10 yrs ago in US, even in CA ...US maldistribution will prob be an accelerating trend as wealth concentration/annual repeat buyer base in certain US urban regions intensifies, while old dealers in Podunk fight to retain their allocations, to very profitably sell at mkt through brokers into the fast-growing SF/Greenwich mkts (lots of new F's mysteriously migrate up from LA dealers to SF to arbitrage the mkts; perhaps not that many repeat F buyers on LA's vaunted Westside??? )....

    That said, economically rational guys (in context of fundamentally discretionary toys) prob eval cost of ownership, not in nominal MSRP terms, but in terms of likely one-yr deprec vs whatever one's entry basis is...whether MSRP or mkt....

    Real question for most buyers is whether $50K 997TT one-yr deprec/$80K CL65 one-yr deprec is a good value vs ?$80K 599 one-yr deprec (if bought at mkt; 430 is now a dinosaur, as most who've extensively driven/own both 599 and 430 will observe )

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    "Real question for most buyers is whether $50K 997TT one-yr deprec/$80K CL65 one-yr deprec"

    Hmmm...50K in one year on a 997 Turbo? I think not.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    I have been trying to ignore WBH/VKSF/Whatever's posts on ever since he claimed the CL63 to be a better driver's car than the 599. He seems to spout nonsense mixed with / and abreviations.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Unless money is not an issue, don't pay up. There are plenty of other cars around. In a few years, F will have sorted out the allocation to the US one way or the other (new model/more production/higher MSRP/higher USD vs EUR). P depreciation will then look very good compared to marked up F. Don't fall for it, it is just a car.

    Also whatever happened to the BS supposed rule that F would only sell cars to people who wouldn't flip them? How come you find $300K+ 430 NEW spiders then?

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    There's the first right of refusal by the dealership. (I'm Cibergypsys brother by the way). I own a F430 manual shifter, bought it October of 2006 for msrp and by the way I had to sign that contract in order to buy the car. I just recieved another paper about it this week which I had to sign again. Ferrari is keeping a watchful eye on thier customers and I was to sign it so Ferrari will keep me on thier vip. If one is to sign then Ferrari will give you the special msrp treatment and heads up on anything else. The contract states that the customer or owner isn't to sell the F430 without giving a chance to the Ferrari dealer of buying the car back at a maximun cost not exceeding the original msrp. The dealer is got 14 days to make an offer for the buy back and I guess that if you sell the car yourself to someone else then you're casting yourself out. This contract is valid for the period of one year from the day I took delivery of the car.

    I believe that this is one of the reasons why there aren't so many F430s out there for sale by private owners. And of course who would want to sell such a car so quickly.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    are F430s way harder to get than the Gallardo in terms of supply? And do they cost around the same @ MSRP?

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    All I can say is that anyone who pays 100k over sticker just for the pleasure of owning a car... A CAR! for christ sake, is an R-Tard. Again, this is only my opinion. If I want a Ferrari that bad, I'll go stay with my best friend in Italy, use the really good connections that I hve made there, buy an F430 at sticker and come back to the US and sell it for 100 thousand more than I paid! After that, I'll have enough money to go back to Italy for a while and use that extra 100K to buy a 599 GTB (A real Ferrari). Oh well I guess I'll just stick with my Ferrariless car collection for now (I really don't feel like I'm missing anything... well, I could use an F40!)

    JT

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Imported cars will not fetch a premium, if you can import it at all...

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    1978fj40 said:
    All I can say is that anyone who pays 100k over sticker just for the pleasure of owning a car... A CAR! for christ sake, is an R-Tard. Again, this is only my opinion. If I want a Ferrari that bad, I'll go stay with my best friend in Italy, use the really good connections that I hve made there, buy an F430 at sticker and come back to the US and sell it for 100 thousand more than I paid! After that, I'll have enough money to go back to Italy for a while and use that extra 100K to buy a 599 GTB (A real Ferrari). Oh well I guess I'll just stick with my Ferrariless car collection for now (I really don't feel like I'm missing anything... well, I could use an F40!)

    JT



    Buy a weekend house in Bavaria and a 430. It will cost you the same as buying the car in the US .

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Crash,

    I like your Idea! And Sci Frog, this may be true so I'll modify my statement. Instead of paying almost 300K for an F430, I'll fly to Italia, buy a 599 and drive the hell out of it on the autostrada, Stelvio and anywhere else in Europe Then I will lleave it with my friend for a while, establish residency in Italy, "move back" to America and bring the car with me! If I ever want to get rid of it I can sell it in Europe. Not sure if this would work, but I have friends who have brought their personal cars from europe when they moved to the states. Anyways, I'm not planning on buying a modern Ferrari any time soon.

    JT

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Somebody correct me, but you can keep an imported F legaly only one year in the US, after that, you need to get DMV certification or send it back to europe.

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Somebody correct me, but you can keep an imported F legaly only one year in the US, after that, you need to get DMV certification or send it back to europe.



    Who says he will even want to come back?

    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Somebody correct me, but you can keep an imported F legaly only one year in the US, after that, you need to get DMV certification or send it back to europe.



    Who says he will even want to come back?



    Re: Oops, I did it again...

    Hell' I'll pay the DMV cert. Has to be well less than 100K! If not, 1 year with a 599 sounds good to me! I have put 17,500 miles on my p car since August 06 so I drive a lot. I'll send the F car back to Italy, and drive it when I'm there!

    JT

     
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