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    PDK Paddles ...

    hey, everyone!

    i just keep hearing and reading about the upcoming Paddles for the PDK, rumour has it that these should be offered through Tequipment.......anyone heard this?

    nick


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    This has been the rumour on the internet and in some magazines since the launch of the PDK.

    Why would Porsche do that?

    They went their own way (like they do in many other things) with the PDK interface launched only a few months ago. The Panamera to be produced as from summer 2009, will use the same system too. If they were to change it they would do on the stillborn Panamera too.

    To me it doesn't make any sense to use two types of systems in an effort to cater for all the preferences.

    As for racing, race cars use neither of these systems, so it is not a point of introducing the alternative system for the GT3 series to be nearer the Cups and the RSRs.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Maybe Porsche has succumbed to pressure from those people who don't like the "bat ear" shifters. Maybe (in typical Porsche fashion) they will offer the option of proper paddle shifters for more money.
    --
    997S Cab Seal Gray

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    There is a rumor that Porsche will offer so called racing paddles (whatever this means) as an option for the 997 PDK. It may be a standard option for the facelifted 997 GT3/GT3RS.

    They always knew how to make money on options... Smiley 


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    This does not seem to be an easy conversion, as it would certainly require a new steering wheel to be done properly, as well as other electronic wizardry.   I also believe that Porsche will not abandon "their" system for some time, if at all.   For example, BMW's idrive has been criticized by the press for years, and yet it still exists, albeit improved year after year, but not abandoned.   I see Porsche doing the same, by attempting to improve "their" system, with version 2.0, 3.0.....

    vincesf 


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    vincesf:

    This does not seem to be an easy conversion, as it would certainly require a new steering wheel to be done properly, as well as other electronic wizardry.   I also believe that Porsche will not abandon "their" system for some time, if at all.   For example, BMW's idrive has been criticized by the press for years, and yet it still exists, albeit improved year after year, but not abandoned.   I see Porsche doing the same, by attempting to improve "their" system, with version 2.0, 3.0.....

    vincesf 

    I don't think that it would take a large effort to change from puddles to paddles. A new steering wheel yes, but not a lot of electronics to be changed (if at all). All it takes are two signals to be passed down (go down/go up) and that is already there for the existing "system".  We're not taking about the PCM to be changed, just the gear changing mechanism.

    --

    Matt C
    2005 997 C2S / 1988 911 3.2 Conv.


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    vincesf:

    This does not seem to be an easy conversion, as it would certainly require a new steering wheel to be done properly, as well as other electronic wizardry.   I also believe that Porsche will not abandon "their" system for some time, if at all.   For example, BMW's idrive has been criticized by the press for years, and yet it still exists, albeit improved year after year, but not abandoned.   I see Porsche doing the same, by attempting to improve "their" system, with version 2.0, 3.0.....

    vincesf 

    As far as I heard, this (still rumored!) option would include a new steering wheel.
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    RC:

    There is a rumor that Porsche will offer so called racing paddles (whatever this means) as an option for the 997 PDK. It may be a standard option for the facelifted 997 GT3/GT3RS.

    They always knew how to make money on options... Smiley 


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    This is actually the idea that i ment: not dumping the buttons on the steering wheel, but offering an optional (chi-ching €..) paddle solution.

    This way Porsche could give in to the pressure of the critics without loosing its face and still make additional money.

    nick


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    RC:
    vincesf:

    This does not seem to be an easy conversion, as it would certainly require a new steering wheel to be done properly, as well as other electronic wizardry.   I also believe that Porsche will not abandon "their" system for some time, if at all.   For example, BMW's idrive has been criticized by the press for years, and yet it still exists, albeit improved year after year, but not abandoned.   I see Porsche doing the same, by attempting to improve "their" system, with version 2.0, 3.0.....

    vincesf 

    As far as I heard, this (still rumored!) option would include a new steering wheel.
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    i guess this would make sense, but still leaves the question about the PDK stick and its logic, which surely cannot be changed (push for up, pull for down).


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    nick1:
    RC:
    vincesf:

    This does not seem to be an easy conversion, as it would certainly require a new steering wheel to be done properly, as well as other electronic wizardry.   I also believe that Porsche will not abandon "their" system for some time, if at all.   For example, BMW's idrive has been criticized by the press for years, and yet it still exists, albeit improved year after year, but not abandoned.   I see Porsche doing the same, by attempting to improve "their" system, with version 2.0, 3.0.....

    vincesf 

    As far as I heard, this (still rumored!) option would include a new steering wheel.
    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    i guess this would make sense, but still leaves the question about the PDK stick and its logic, which surely cannot be changed (push for up, pull for down).

    Of course it can be changed. They just need to reverse the logic which could be done by simply switching the switch logic on the new steering wheel.

    OR they could offer a new programming for the PDK, should be easily possible with PIWIS.

    A "software switch" in the PIWIS could also be possible, "Standard PDK Buttons" or "Sport PDK Paddles".

    There are enough possibilities, I doubt that this is going to be a major problem. 


    --
    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    I'm sure the paddles were co-developed with the PDK. In fact, I bet their marketers  are chuckling  at the widespread derision the steering wheel " ears " have garnered so far in the press or on boards . Just the reaction  they want ,IMO. It just means it'll drive more  orders for the (probable ) $2- 3000 paddle option , with a high price justified by it's buyers  because it will probably be the only way to get an included   " very special " flat bottom steering wheel or some other such gimmick.

    Pure profit ,baby !

    Smiley


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    I for one like the buttons, once you get used to them (at the end of the day it is your car, and you'll get used to them, unlike the motoring hacks who try out new cars every day, and would so not like to unlearn and relearn the eccentricities of every manufacturer).  I like them because you can use either button, and when you're in a long corner, (or exiting the apex but still turning) and you need to change gears, you can use the hand which is high on the steering wheel, rather than having to use a paddle which could be on the underside of the wheel during a corner.


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Arshad:

    I for one like the buttons, once you get used to them (at the end of the day it is your car, and you'll get used to them, unlike the motoring hacks who try out new cars every day, and would so not like to unlearn and relearn the eccentricities of every manufacturer).  I like them because you can use either button, and when you're in a long corner, (or exiting the apex but still turning) and you need to change gears, you can use the hand which is high on the steering wheel, rather than having to use a paddle which could be on the underside of the wheel during a corner.


    That's the old engineering run Porsche you are talking about. The new marketing/MBA run Porsche sees $$ opportunity in every gadget/gizmo their competitors are offering and segment buyers "desire" - so logic and function on each side of the buttons/paddles argument be damned - and they will look for every   opportunity for EASY   profit padding.

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    I am on the verge of ordering a 997.2 Carrera4S with the PDK transmission. I really like the gearbox but hate the buttons on the steering wheel.

     If a new wheel with proper paddles is released (as standard on the GT3 and as on option on the rest of the range) what would the approximate cost be to replace the wheel?

    I do understand that nobody know what the new wheel with paddles will cost, but has anybody any experience of the cost of switching steering wheels in general?

     Thanks in advance,

    /fantasma

    997 GT3 MY07



    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    The issue on the paddle design is what was so wrong with the way Aston Martin, Audi, BMW (M3/5), Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Mercedes, etc. did it? If I could see what was wrong with the design of real paddles and how Porsche's bat-ear shifters overcome that I might be more interested. 

    So can anyone give me hard facts about what was so wrong with "traditional" paddle shifters that Porsche felt compelled to change them? 


    --
    997S Cab Seal Gray

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    "So can anyone give me hard facts about what was so wrong with "traditional" paddle shifters that Porsche felt compelled to change them? "

    You make a very interesting observation. It seems we are living in an era where it has become an organizational imperative to re-invent the wheel. Never mind that there is, at least in this physical reality, only one wheel.  One could easily envision Porsche adapting "conventional" paddles to the current sport steering wheel.  However, corporate thinking demands that "we lead, not follow", even if that means leading the company off a cliff serving nothing more than the sake of novelty as a substitute for true innovation.


    --
    Carpe Diem

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Reginos.....over to you...;)
    --
    V6, V8 or V10?

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    I've had the PDK CS for approx 3 months, and personally, I'm ok with the button configuration.  It took alittle time (1 week) to get fully used to it but this was mainly because I've always used a stick in the past. 

    I guess coming out of a car with paddles it will be frustrating but unlike journalist hacks who use a car for a short time, an owner will very quickly adjust.

     

     

     


    --

     


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Seraphim:
    Reginos.....over to you...;)
    --
    V6, V8 or V10?

            I think, clewsey's reply above clarifies this (non-existent) issue completely.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Porsche changed nothing ,  'tiptronic'  was much before the others look-alike F1 paddles .  Porsche is just staying on it's own method of gear changing .  People who can use only one hand (and always the same one) on the steering wheel , can now change gears up and down and enjoy the manual (automated) gearbox .

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    If Porsche offered PDK with a choice between the "bat ear" shifter system and the "traditional" paddle shifter system which would potential owners choose, assuming no cost difference between the two?

     Let's see where the chips fall... 


    --
    997S Cab Seal Gray

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Paddles!

    I've just had a 36hr test drive of a PDK 997 and I did start to get the hang of the bat's ears from a functionality perspective but not completely and there were some alarming mistakes on my part.  But worse than that, holding the steering wheel where your fingers and thumbs needed to be was really uncomfortable and the push pull of the same switch remained awkward (especially in hairpins when you are need large steering angles).

    The tactile interface is just rubbish.  A paddle requires a more deliberate action so you are much more aware of what you are doing and therefore what gear you are in.  With PDK, I was pressing buttons and losing track of what was going on.  The upshot was that I was often trying to guess what gear I was in but unable to look in the miniscule display.  Quite often I selected or assumed I was in the wrong gear.

    Where Porsche went wrong by trying to appeal too strongly to the Tiptronic buyer.  Its set up as a superb automatic but the manual mode is just an over-ride and afterthought.  For a sports car maker I believe this is a huge mistake but there again,sales will probably prove otherwise.  I guess this is why each generation has less steering feel and more pointless "luxuries".

    In summary, I tink paddles require a more concious action and therefore are more suited to a sports car.  The bats ears are like pressing buttons on a playstation and just as artificial in feel.


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    GR:

    Paddles!

    The tactile interface is just rubbish.   The bats ears are like pressing buttons on a playstation and just as artificial in feel.

    I think you've just described the wii shifter. Porsche could have done so much better.

            


    --
    997S Cab Seal Gray

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Did you guys see this? Probably. But just in case:

    link:

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/479407/PDK_buttons_to_be_replaced_with_paddles/index.html


    --
    2007 997 Turbo

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    I'd be interested in the impressions of anyone who has driven the 997.2 with PDK in the sports plus mode.  From what I have read, you notice when shifts take place.

     

    Jim  


    --
    2006 911S - Basalt Black Metallic, 6-speed, Sports Chrono, TPMS, 3M Clear Coat Bra

    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Hi Jim,

     I have a Gen 2 Targa 4S with PDK which I just love.

    I have not used it that much in Sport Plus mode so far, but can confirm that the upshifts are very apbrut and high up the rev range too.

    It does put a big smile on your face though!!

    You can see some videos of me driving the PDK box on the UK Christmas cruise yesterday here:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cs7QlQR4Tw

    Nige.


    Re: PDK Paddles ...

    Nige,

     

    Thanks for the info regarding your observations on the performance of the PDK.  Thanks also for the link to the video of the UK Christmas cruise.

     Over time, I have improved in my shifting and I tend to shift higher up in the rev range with the six-speed manual transmission on my Gen 1 997S.  I was very curious about the PDK, as I like taking my car to the local track, and I strongly suspect that the button shifter PDK would make a big difference in my performance, once I got used to it.

    Jim  


    --
    2006 911S - Basalt Black Metallic, 6-speed, Sports Chrono, TPMS, 3M Clear Coat Bra

     
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