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    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    I post the link to the article below, not because it is any good (some mistakes are easily detected) but because it shows that others are having the same discussion we are having albeit with somewhat different conclusions in each case.

    It is not just coincidence. It is not that some of us are getting old and grumpy. It shows that the path Porsche have chosen to take, raises some questions.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/auto-news/defining-porsche/article4253918/

     


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    "we are not alone" cheeky


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    I post the link to the article below, not because it is any good (some mistakes are easily detected) but because it shows that others are having the same discussion we are having albeit with somewhat different conclusions in each case.

    It is not just coincidence. It is not that some of us are getting old and grumpy. It shows that the path Porsche have chosen to take, raises some questions.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/new-cars/auto-news/defining-porsche/article4253918/

     

    The article is interesting but the problem is not the Cayenne or the Panamera per se but the Cayenne/Panamera V6, Diesel and even the Hybrid to some point. I "understand" a 250 hp engine in a Boxster but I don't "get it" in a Cayenne or Panamera. This isn't Porsche anymore.

    Retaining value? Are you kidding me? Look at the value of used Porsche and tell me where that "value retaining" is? My Carrera GTS Cab was almost 140k EUR new. Now my dealer would sell it for 105k EUR...with only 4500 km on it, one year old. The car "lost" 35k EUR in one year. Value retention?

    My dealer also has a fantastic 997 Carrera 4S with PDK, Sport Chrono, PSE, etc. New car price was over 130k. Now he sells it, car has only 17000 km on it, for 85k EUR and I bet he would gladly accept 80k EUR for it. Before going for my C63 AMG Coupe, I was actually also considering this C4S but since it would have been my daily driver to my business... Smiley

    Fact is: 90% of the Cayenne and Panamera I see on the street in Germany are...V6 or Diesel. Now people like me would think that it would hurt the Porsche brand name but I think it doesn't. We are hardcore Porsche enthusiasts, this is why we are so critical about Porsche's model strategy. I have to confess however that it seems to have worked for them pretty well so far.

    Let me give you an example: I was sitting with my wife, my kids and some of my wife's female friends(they just had spanish class there, so I met with them) at a cafe. At some point, a Cayenne V6 or Diesel (black brake calipers) parked in the parking lot and all my wife's friends looked at the Cayenne and said "what a wonderful car" and "the most beautiful Porsche...". Being a Porsche freak (and all Smiley), I told them in a very annoyed tone "but this is a Diesel or a V6, this car is so slowwwwwww". My wife's friends looked at me, one of them said "who cares, this is a Porsche" and another one said "you can't drive fast nowadays anywhere" and other stupid stuff (I just hope they don't read this... Smiley). I was quite surprised how much they liked a simple Cayenne V6 or Diesel.

    That said, I think we lost a little bit the sense for reality. We are driving expensive cars, some of them with exceptional performance and when we see a Cayenne V6/Diesel or even a Boxster, we tend to brag about it and feel disappointed. Well...most people can't even afford these "weak" Porsche cars, so you can take a guess what they are thinking about you and me when we actually don't understand how they can like cars like a Cayenne Diesel.

    Yes, Porsche has become a mass producer of cars, no doubt about it. Is it really that bad though? The fact that I see many Cayenne or even 911 on the street is a huge advantage for me in Germany: I don't stick out from the masses too much, something I would definitely do in a Ferrari or Lamborghini. I know that somebody living in L.A. or in Miami or even in Dubai wouldn't care too much, on the contrary, some of these people would probably to stick out from the masses but I don't. The Panamera Turbo S I ordered is already a problem for me, I just realized it after driving around in my Porsche Panamera loaner for the past two weeks. I barely see Panameras in my hometown and the car is really something special here. The mass production also has another advantage: Quality. The quality of Porsche cars got much better over the past couple of years, just compare a 996 to the current 991.

    We are a tough audience but to be honest, I think that so far, Porsche has done everything right...to survive. Of course I would have loved to see more power and better performance in their model range and instead of a 250 hp Diesel, I would have loved Porsche to put that monster V12 Audi Q7 Diesel in a Cayenne or even Panamera but it didn't happen.

    Get over it: The Porsche we all knew in the past is...gone. Forever. We may not like it but I'm still looking forward to the next 991 GT3, 991 Turbo and even a Panamera Coupe on the way. I can't help it, I still love Porsche. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    On another forum I frequent (specializing in sportscar racing), I was amused to see all the Toyota fans go bananas upon the announcement of the return of Toyota to Le Mans with a LMP1 race car. I thought smugly to myself: "How can you get excited over Toyota"?! , Yes they have made some interesting and semi-successful racing cars, but their road products are bland.

    Today I hang my head in shame for having had such an uncompromising attitude. In a generation's time, some Ferrari fan will think the same when  they see a Porsche fan gets excited over a new Porsche race car (if there will be any by that time).

    My sincere apologies to all Toyota, Hyundai, Zil, Mahindra, TaTa, etc fans. Today we are all the same.


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    I'm in 2 minds on this - RC makes some good points.  Worst case is that my CGTS will be the new 993...  And as I intend to be buried in it, that's OK.  (But this fatalistic view isn't my favoured view...)

    Spyderidol: re your Toyota comment: It's amazing that the new Toyota/Subaru has been so unnecessarily underpowered...  Also, the opposite is true with regards to Renault (and this maybe needs a seperate post under "Other Sports Cars"): Renault, as an engine manufacturer appears to take little advantage from its dominant F1, and didn't take much more when they were a fully fledged team.  Apart from a brilliant hot little hatch, I find it amazing that their racing pedigree hasn't ever been built upon in their road car range...


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    reginos:
    Leawood911:

    Perhaps you should buy your cars in the US - perhaps the prices here more closely reflect what they are costing Porsche to make - ? (actually prices have gone up a lot, they used to be MUCH cheaper than German prices!)

    These are all prices from Porsches US website converted to Euros.

    Base new Boxster 39K EURO

    Base 991 66K EURO

    Base 991S 77K EURO

    Base V6 Panamera 61K EURO

    Panamera Turbo S (RC) - 140K EURO

    These are the sticker prices - you still have room to bargain.

    In the meantime, thanks for cheap Porsches.  We in America appreciate the extra you pay for us!  Cheer

    Here in Israel 991 Carrera S cost around - 225K EURO, Boxster around - 100K EURO, 997 Turbo Coupe around - 330K EURO heart

     

     

     


    --


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    On another forum I frequent (specializing in sportscar racing), I was amused to see all the Toyota fans go bananas upon the announcement of the return of Toyota to Le Mans with a LMP1 race car. I thought smugly to myself: "How can you get excited over Toyota"?! , Yes they have made some interesting and semi-successful racing cars, but their road products are bland.

    Today I hang my head in shame for having had such an uncompromising attitude. In a generation's time, some Ferrari fan will think the same when  they see a Porsche fan gets excited over a new Porsche race car (if there will be any by that time).

    My sincere apologies to all Toyota, Hyundai, Zil, Mahindra, TaTa, etc fans. Today we are all the same.

    To be honest...I couldn't care less about race cars. I care about the cars I can buy and I can drive

    So even if Toyota would make the most amazing race car on the planet, I couldn't care less.

    Same goes to Porsche: I don't care if they race or not. I care about how good and fast their cars are.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    On another forum I frequent (specializing in sportscar racing), I was amused to see all the Toyota fans go bananas upon the announcement of the return of Toyota to Le Mans with a LMP1 race car. I thought smugly to myself: "How can you get excited over Toyota"?! , Yes they have made some interesting and semi-successful racing cars, but their road products are bland.

    Today I hang my head in shame for having had such an uncompromising attitude. In a generation's time, some Ferrari fan will think the same when  they see a Porsche fan gets excited over a new Porsche race car (if there will be any by that time).

    My sincere apologies to all Toyota, Hyundai, Zil, Mahindra, TaTa, etc fans. Today we are all the same.

    I think bugatti, koenigsegg and parani fans can think the same about ferrari fans)

    Agree with RC, maybe except his attitude to motorsport. The main thing - good final product.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    In the past people thought Porsche and what came to  mind were Le Mans, 917s, Paris-Dakar and Rally Monte Carlo, 911 Turbo, "Moby Dick" and Steve McQueen.

    Nowadays it's mostly about Paint to sample, leather covered sun visors, and Lindsay Lohan. Porsche Marketing wants us to believe that the Cayenne GTS is a purist's car with sports spiritSmiley

    The product got hugely better, like everybody else's, but the brand is not  revered and special anymore. School boys are in awe of Porsche only in some of Porsche's  adverts in contrast to what was happening 20 or 30 years ago when they were aspiring to a 911 or a 928. Porsche are on the verge of the mainstream like BMW were in the late 60s and early 70s when they were producing some 200.000 units. You don't choose a Porsche instead of a Ferrari but you compare one to the latest BMW or Audi which often offer more technology for less money and cheaper maintenance.

    IMO, and forgetting emotion even in business terms this is a wrong policy.  Why dilute your exclusivity when everybody else is desperate to add to the brand equity of their products by setting up special exclusive divisions and designing halo models? Why ignore top level motorsport and allow your long racing tradition to wither when everybody is spending billions to acquire this type of charisma? 

    Ferrari are diversifying too (California and FF so far) but in a cautious way. They are treating their brand with extreme care and respect and take short but prudent steps. I am honestly very disappointed with Porsche's cynical and greedy path.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    reginos:

     

    Ferrari are diversifying too (California and FF so far) but in a cautious way. They are treating their brand with extreme care and respect and take short but prudent steps. I am honestly very disappointed with Porsche's cynical and greedy path.

    Why do people always compare Porsche to Ferrari? Smiley In my opinion, Porsche is comparable to Mercedes AMG and BMW M but not necessarily Ferrari or Lamborghini. Don't forget that Porsche lived in the past from selling cars in the US and Germany, everything else was welcomed but not really important. In Germany, too flashy, too sporty doesn't really work, it was the advantage of the daily driver reputation that made Porsche successful, even in the US to some point. Ferrari is a completely different story and it could have ended very tragic without the support from Fiat. Don't forget that Fiat owns 90% of Ferrari and Ferrari can use all development/engineering facilities/capacities, even if Ferrari would never admit that they actually do. Smiley

    We could discuss all night long what would have been better: An independent Porsche with all the models available right now or a VW or Mercedes owned Porsche with sports cars only. The fact that Wiedeking's strategy of taking over VW failed, shouldn't mislead us that Porsche was and still is very successful. If the worldwide crisis would have come one year later, Porsche would own VW, Audi, Lamborghini and Bentley by now. Smiley

    Porsche is Porsche, Ferrari is Ferrari, two different manufacturers with different approaches and a different philosophy. I still think though, that Fiat made a mistake by diversifying products between Maserati and Ferrari. I also think that Maserati products are way to expensive to be competitive. With lower prices and a stronger implication by the Ferrari brand ("engine made by Ferrari" for example...), Maserati could have been much more successful. Their new approach with the smaller sedan and the V6 Biturbo could be too late to change their fate.

    I care about motorsport but not related to the car or car brand I would buy. Two different pair of shoes. What does the Panamera Turbo S have in common with the 911 RSR? Right...nothing. Smiley Oh wait..the brand name. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Nowadays it's mostly about Paint to sample, leather covered sun visors, and Lindsay Lohan. 

    In Russia, f.e. Ferrari is driven by such "talented" people as Timati... I don't think that it spoils brand`s image... 

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    On another forum I frequent (specializing in sportscar racing), I was amused to see all the Toyota fans go bananas upon the announcement of the return of Toyota to Le Mans with a LMP1 race car. I thought smugly to myself: "How can you get excited over Toyota"?! , Yes they have made some interesting and semi-successful racing cars, but their road products are bland.

    Today I hang my head in shame for having had such an uncompromising attitude. In a generation's time, some Ferrari fan will think the same when  they see a Porsche fan gets excited over a new Porsche race car (if there will be any by that time).

    My sincere apologies to all Toyota, Hyundai, Zil, Mahindra, TaTa, etc fans. Today we are all the same.

    To be honest...I couldn't care less about race cars. I care about the cars I can buy and I can drive

    So even if Toyota would make the most amazing race car on the planet, I couldn't care less.

    Same goes to Porsche: I don't care if they race or not. I care about how good and fast their cars are.

     

    That's fine, but others do.

    Porsche themselves are always claiming  that racing is a great part of their heritage and pat themselves on the back over transferring racing technologies and know-how to their road cars (I'll post a link to blog with an interview with Porsche spokesman when I get home)


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:
    reginos:

     

    Ferrari are diversifying too (California and FF so far) but in a cautious way. They are treating their brand with extreme care and respect and take short but prudent steps. I am honestly very disappointed with Porsche's cynical and greedy path.

    Why do people always compare Porsche to Ferrari? Smiley In my opinion, Porsche is comparable to Mercedes AMG and BMW M but not necessarily Ferrari or Lamborghini. Don't forget that Porsche lived in the past from selling cars in the US and Germany, everything else was welcomed but not really important. In Germany, too flashy, too sporty doesn't really work, it was the advantage of the daily driver reputation that made Porsche successful, even in the US to some point. Ferrari is a completely different story and it could have ended very tragic without the support from Fiat. Don't forget that Fiat owns 90% of Ferrari and Ferrari can use all development/engineering facilities/capacities, even if Ferrari would never admit that they actually do. Smiley

    We could discuss all night long what would have been better: An independent Porsche with all the models available right now or a VW or Mercedes owned Porsche with sports cars only. The fact that Wiedeking's strategy of taking over VW failed, shouldn't mislead us that Porsche was and still is very successful. If the worldwide crisis would have come one year later, Porsche would own VW, Audi, Lamborghini and Bentley by now. Smiley

    Porsche is Porsche, Ferrari is Ferrari, two different manufacturers with different approaches and a different philosophy. I still think though, that Fiat made a mistake by diversifying products between Maserati and Ferrari. I also think that Maserati products are way to expensive to be competitive. With lower prices and a stronger implication by the Ferrari brand ("engine made by Ferrari" for example...), Maserati could have been much more successful. Their new approach with the smaller sedan and the V6 Biturbo could be too late to change their fate.

    I care about motorsport but not related to the car or car brand I would buy. Two different pair of shoes. What does the Panamera Turbo S have in common with the 911 RSR? Right...nothing. Smiley Oh wait..the brand name. Smiley

     

    Are you sure you are not on Porsches' payroll Smiley


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Here is the blog I was talking about. See what the Porsche NA spokesman says about racing:

    "I think that really comes back as a philosophy question for Porsche: why do we race? We’ve always been racing, we’ve always used racing as a part to develop street cars. "

     

    Read the rest:http://falkenalms.blogspot.com/


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    Here is the blog I was talking about. See what the Porsche NA spokesman says about racing:

    "I think that really comes back as a philosophy question for Porsche: why do we race? We’ve always been racing, we’ve always used racing as a part to develop street cars. "

     

    Read the rest:http://falkenalms.blogspot.com/

    To be fair, todays top level motorsport is so complicated  that very few things can be used in production vehicles and not it nearest future.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Not in GTE racing.

    As you may know, the GT3 RS is the homologation car for the RSR. All GTE cars need to have a road going homolgation model....unless the ACO gives them a waivers (BMW)

     

    Here are the GTE regulations . If you have enogh patience you can see just how close (and often simpler) the cars are.

    http://private.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/B7C3D78632F25F39C1257964005BC385/$FILE/LMGTE%20(2012)-(12.12.11).pdf


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    Not in GTE racing.

    As you may know, the GT3 RS is the homologation car for the RSR. All GTE cars need to have a road going homolgation model....unless the ACO gives them a waivers (BMW)

    Thats why I have written top level. GTE racing is not top level.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    But that is where Porsche has done the bulk of its racing....


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Italo:
    Are you sure you are not on Porsches' payroll Smiley

    Pretty sure I'm not on their payroll. Smiley

    This was my personal opinion. In the end, most of us drive the sports cars we drive on the street and not in professional car races. Motorsports is always also about the people driving the race cars, not only about technology. Have you ever seen a pro driver drive a regular street car on street tires? You will be surprised what he can do with such a car. So I really don't care about the F1 racers, simply because this isn't technology we are going to be able to drive on the street...for the next decade or even longer. Of course some of the technology makes it to our cars too but nowadays, most manufacturers actually outsource certain parts and especially electronics/software development. So you could end up with the same parts manufacturers or software programmers in two different car brands like Ferrari and Porsche.

    Bottom line is: For me, the car I am driving and I am able to buy is important, nothing else.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC - You are making a common error in equating F1 with all racing. There is so much racing other than F1. It just doesn't get the mainstream media coverage of F1. 

    I never refer to F1 as the racing I am talking about. 

    There is almost zero technology transfer from F1 to raod going cars.

    again - I respect your point of view. I don't share it, but I respect it.


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    But that is where Porsche has done the bulk of its racing....

    Porsche has made its name in top tier le mans sportprototypes, targa florio, imsa, rallie monte-carlo, hill climbing, GP-pre war era as constructors buro. 

    GTE class don't fight for overall victory that's why it cannot be called top level of motorsport. I think so.

    If Porsche didn't win as listed here: 

    [edit]TAG-Porsche engine in McLaren cars

    • 3 Formula One Driver World Championship (198419851986)
    • 2 Formula One Constructor World Championship (19841985)
    • 25 Formula One victories (1984, 12 wins; 1985, 6 wins; 1986, 4 wins; 1987, 3 wins)

     

    and made their racing history only as gte class winner it would not be the porsche we all know.

    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    again - We are/were talking about current/recent Porsche racing. Porsche has concentrated since 1989 in GT racing with the exception of the 3 year LMP2 RS Spyder project... and even that has transferred its tech to raod going cars. (see the upcoming 918)


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    again - We are/were talking about current/recent Porsche racing. Porsche has concentrated since 1989 in GT racing with the exception of the 3 year LMP2 RS Spyder project... and even that has transferred its tech to raod going cars. (see the upcoming 918)

    Why you have forgotten Porsche 911 gt1 and Joest car?

    LMP2 Porsche was made in 2005, 918 - 2013. 8 years of deriving... Not a short time.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Sadly no victory in the 24hr LeMans since the GT1 in 1998. But impressive track record for sure, something which I think Porsche should value very dear. It's great advertising, be it for no real gains to the road car development...

    I am actually quite mad that Porsche doesn't go for another Dakar Win with a Cayenne. Even better do it with the Macan which is aimed at a younger buyer.. Win Dakar to show how awesome the car is.. VW is done with their Tourag era anyways..


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Atzporsche:

    Sadly no victory in the 24hr LeMans since the GT1 in 1998. But impressive track record for sure, something which I think Porsche should value very dear. It's great advertising, be it for no real gains to the road car development...

    I am actually quite mad that Porsche doesn't go for another Dakar Win with a Cayenne. Even better do it with the Macan which is aimed at a younger buyer.. Win Dakar to show how awesome the car is.. VW is done with their Tourag era anyways..

    +1 They should use as many cars of model range as possible in motorsport.

    Anyway there is no more successful motorsport manufacturer as Porsche. 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Yes could you imagine the Cayenne winning the Dakar and the Panamera winning the DTM kiss


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Atzporsche:

    Yes could you imagine the Cayenne winning the Dakar and the Panamera winning the DTM kiss

    I imagine winning Cayenne))) In regulation terms Panamera suits better to V8 supercars seriesSmiley

    As I know Cayenne has already competed in Transsyberia, but I don't know with what success.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Cayenne - Paris Dakar and Panamera (of course with a much lower weight ) in the V8 super cars series, I agree.

    It didn't happen though and while the Panamera and Cayenne GTS are interesting approaches to a more sportier image of these models, I kind of don't see the point of these cars (other than being cheaper than the top models). Why not make the Cayenne Turbo and Panamera Turbo S lighter and sportier? yes

    The F1 racing series was just an example, I'm just not a friend of motorsports with cars which will never make it to the streets. I like the Clubsport scene in Germany much more but even here, things get more and more professional and you need a lot of money and sponsors to be able to compete.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:

    again - We are/were talking about current/recent Porsche racing. Porsche has concentrated since 1989 in GT racing with the exception of the 3 year LMP2 RS Spyder project... and even that has transferred its tech to raod going cars. (see the upcoming 918)

    Why you have forgotten Porsche 911 gt1 and Joest car?

    LMP2 Porsche was made in 2005, 918 - 2013. 8 years of deriving... Not a short time.


    --

    sportcars-history.com

    Not forgotten. The GT1 - although really a protoype, was in fact the then top call which was a GT class. Remember the McLaren F1?

    The Porsche 911 GT1 was a car designed for competition in the GT1 class of sportscar racing, which also required a street legal version for homologation purposes. The limited-production street-legal version was labeled the 911 GT1 Straßenversion (Street version).


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:
    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:

    again - We are/were talking about current/recent Porsche racing. Porsche has concentrated since 1989 in GT racing with the exception of the 3 year LMP2 RS Spyder project... and even that has transferred its tech to raod going cars. (see the upcoming 918)

    Why you have forgotten Porsche 911 gt1 and Joest car?

    LMP2 Porsche was made in 2005, 918 - 2013. 8 years of deriving... Not a short time.


    --

    sportcars-history.com

    Not forgotten. The GT1 - although really a protoype, was in fact the then top call which was a GT calss. Remembr the Mclaren F1?

    The Porsche 911 GT1 was a car designed for competition in the GT1 class of sportscar racing, which also required a street legal version for homologation purposes. The limited-production street-legal version was labeled the 911 GT1 Straßenversion (Street version).

    Mclaren F1 was a series car that was scaled up to racing, gt1 was a pure racing car, that was homologated. Even gt1'98 was homologated with 1 car.

    2 different approaches.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


     
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