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    Re: Tesla Model X

    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    The new Tesla Roadster will turn some heads. 0-60 1.9 sec. 0-100 8.6 sec and top speed 250 mph. 

    Tesla Roadster will smoke every production gas car at least in acceleration. According th Musk it has a range of 650 miles. 

     

    Physically it's impossible to get a 1.9 sec 0-60 on street tires.

    The current record, 2.2 seconds by the 918 is pretty much AT the limit of street tire traction. The Model S is not far behind at 2.23. It's not about power and torque anymore.

    Anything better than those times needed to be on slicks.


    --

     

     

     

     

    Best a German car magazine ever achieved on street tires was 3.2 seconds I think...Tesla S P100D in Ludicrous mode.

    Those acceleration runs done on drag strips are ridiculous, also considering what it (usually) requires to "prepare" for a Ludicrous mode run.


    Strange. I've tested with Vbox and achieved 2,8 to 100km/h consecutive times without a blink. And also, the car will do 0-100km/h in just 0,1 less if you run it out from a cold garage and floor it. No need for any L+ mode or battery heat up to achieve impressive figures. But to know all this you need to test it out for yourself.


    Re: Tesla Model X

    I had a Tesla P100D for a test-drive, I think I wrote a short driving report a while ago.
    I really loved it, from a gadget lover point of view but from a sportscar lover point of view...not. Smiley

    Even if it would do 0-100 kph in one second flat, I wouldn't get one. Most boring ride of my life (minus the gadgetry), can't help it. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X

    RC:

    I had a Tesla P100D for a test-drive, I think I wrote a short driving report a while ago.
    I really loved it, from a gadget lover point of view but from a sportscar lover point of view...not. Smiley

    Even if it would do 0-100 kph in one second flat, I wouldn't get one. Most boring ride of my life (minus the gadgetry), can't help it. Smiley


    Yes, we know all that and it's perfectly fine. We all like different stuff in life - how boring it would be otherwise. But that was not what I responded to. I just corrected your false statement re achievable 0-100km/h times.


    Re: Tesla Model X

    I like the car but I wouldn't get one. I like the car from a gadget lover point of view. If I were a rich guy with tons of cars i the garage, the Tesla S P100D would be there as well. No doubt about it.

    False statement? Sorry that I trust some reputable car journalists who use certified measuring equipment more than the internet. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X

    RC:

    I like the car but I wouldn't get one. I like the car from a gadget lover point of view. If I were a rich guy with tons of cars i the garage, the Tesla S P100D would be there as well. No doubt about it.

    False statement? Sorry that I trust some reputable car journalists who use certified measuring equipment more than the internet. Smiley


    Can't remember reading anywhere that you tested the P100DL? Can you link up to that thread, would be interesting to read your thoughts (even if I know what to expect Smiley). I thought you only drove an older P90D some year ago or so Smiley

    Regarding 0-100 times.... Reputable car journalists? I've seen a lot of things floating around re Teslas by car journalists that are a bit skewed. An EV is simply a different beast than a gasoline car - like it or not. Doing a 0-100 run when you have below 20% SoC (State of Charge) will result in higher acceleration times so if they did the test with that SoC, 3,2 seems about right.

    Independent of all that, it doesn't matter if it does a few tenths here and there. Even a Model S 100D (0-100 in just above 4 sec.) is a perfectly fine and responsive car. In my book the better option than a  P100D for several reasons. It's not a sports car and neither I or anybody else in here have claimed that either.


    Re: Tesla Model X

    When was the last time you pushed a cold ICE engine. I wait a good 10-15mins to warm up my GT3 otherwise it may go bang.....


    --

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: Tesla Model X

    620 miles of range just isn't enough for RC. It's not livable in Germany. 


    Re: Tesla Model X

    noone1:

    620 miles of range just isn't enough for RC. It's not livable in Germany. 

    When did I ever care about range? Smiley 

    Also, the full charge on the Tesla S P100D I test-drove lasted for aprox. 170 km (had maybe 20 km left, power was already reduced). Yes, I did some fast Autobahn runs but there is no excuse for it. My Audi R8 has always (even if I go full throttle on the Autobahn) a range of at least 260 km. And the R8 is considerably more fun than the Tesla. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X

    RC:
    noone1:

    620 miles of range just isn't enough for RC. It's not livable in Germany. 

    When did I ever care about range? Smiley 

    Also, the full charge on the Tesla S P100D I test-drove lasted for aprox. 170 km (had maybe 20 km left, power was already reduced). Yes, I did some fast Autobahn runs but there is no excuse for it. My Audi R8 has always (even if I go full throttle on the Autobahn) a range of at least 260 km. And the R8 is considerably more fun than the Tesla. 


    Why continue to compare a family saloon with a two-seater sportscar like the R8? I don't get that at all Smiley

    And secondly, your driving pattern and high speeding is not relevant because it is a demand for such a tiny part of the customer base anyway. For your demands the case is already closed and you should stick to noisy V8+ cars for your daily family commutes @ 300km/h averaging 30l/100km consumption Smiley. To me and most others this sounds just dangerous, not relaxing and expensive to burn such amounts of fuel.

    Did you btw have a link to that P100DL review of yours?


    Re: Tesla Model X

    Exactly, why should I compare a car (R8) which is cheaper (lease) than a family sedan (Tesla)? 

    I didn't do a real review, I only wrote up some thoughts after my test-drive, incl. the range experience. 

    Loved the car for the tech, hated it for the driving experience, boring as hell.

    Will try to find it but I'm not sure where I posted it (I didn't open a new thread, already checked).

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X

    RC:

    Exactly, why should I compare a car (R8) which is cheaper (lease) than a family sedan (Tesla)? 

     

    If the R8 lease is cheaper then then case is closed of course  SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: Tesla Model X

    lukestern:
    RC:

    Exactly, why should I compare a car (R8) which is cheaper (lease) than a family sedan (Tesla)? 

     

    If the R8 lease is cheaper then then case is closed of course  SmileySmileySmiley

    This is something I never understood: Tesla has miserable lease offers in Germany. Smiley For businesses and even private persons definitely not good.

    A Tesla S P100D, worth 160k EUR, costs around 2200 EUR per month (no down payment). A R8 V10 Plus, worth 220k EUR, costs 1800 EUR per month (probably less if you negotiate).

    My R8 is 800 per month (4 year lease) but thats a different story... Smiley Smiley Unbeatable.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Model X

    RC:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    Exactly, why should I compare a car (R8) which is cheaper (lease) than a family sedan (Tesla)? 

     

    If the R8 lease is cheaper then then case is closed of course  SmileySmileySmiley

    This is something I never understood: Tesla has miserable lease offers in Germany. Smiley For businesses and even private persons definitely not good.

    A Tesla S P100D, worth 160k EUR, costs around 2200 EUR per month (no down payment). A R8 V10 Plus, worth 220k EUR, costs 1800 EUR per month (probably less if you negotiate).

    My R8 is 800 per month (4 year lease) but thats a different story... Smiley Smiley Unbeatable.


    800/m for the R8 seems like an incredible deal, no doubt. But not something that can be benchmarked against Smiley

    I thought Tesla in general offered good interest rates and rather flexible with amount in down payments etc. Seems like there is something special going on with Audi Germany and lease deals, because if memory serves me right I read that you didn't get very appealing deals on new Porsche Cayenne etc.


    Re: Tesla Model X

    lukestern:
    RC:
    lukestern:
    RC:

    Exactly, why should I compare a car (R8) which is cheaper (lease) than a family sedan (Tesla)? 

     

    If the R8 lease is cheaper then then case is closed of course  SmileySmileySmiley

    This is something I never understood: Tesla has miserable lease offers in Germany. Smiley For businesses and even private persons definitely not good.

    A Tesla S P100D, worth 160k EUR, costs around 2200 EUR per month (no down payment). A R8 V10 Plus, worth 220k EUR, costs 1800 EUR per month (probably less if you negotiate).

    My R8 is 800 per month (4 year lease) but thats a different story... Smiley Smiley Unbeatable.


    800/m for the R8 seems like an incredible deal, no doubt. But not something that can be benchmarked against Smiley

    This deal was part of an understanding I cannot talk about, so no...no benchmark at all. Smiley

    I thought Tesla in general offered good interest rates and rather flexible with amount in down payments etc. Seems like there is something special going on with Audi Germany and lease deals, because if memory serves me right I read that you didn't get very appealing deals on new Porsche Cayenne etc.

    Porsche lease offers aren't always good, sometimes they are though (when those special deals kick in...). Audi has lately excellent deals but funny, when I look at the dealership at the lease deals (written down next to the price tags on showroom cars), they are bad but when I ask my sales guy, the lease deals are amazing. Smiley They probably don't want to make this public, same goes to the Mercedes lease deals. I pay 1460 EUR a month (incl. VAT!!!), no down payment, 36 months for a GLC 63 worth 136k EUR, so go figure. Smiley It is a business pool deal but still...very nice.
    Tesla? Not many deals.

    McLaren had nice deals for the 650 and the 570 but now, it seems some of the good deals are gone (sales picked up?).

    BMW also has excellent lease deals in Germany, no doubt about it.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Tesla Model X

    These leases are a bit unique to Germany... Also RC has a knack for buying car that people don’t want anymore and that allows him to get some great rides. Kudos.

    In the real world of Northeast USA and my commute pattern, I have to fill up my California and 612 every 110-120 miles so the current battery tech is good enough for a sporty EV. EV is the future, zero doubt.

    Oh and BTW Tesla up 5% earlier today... Short sellers lost another few billions...


    Re: Tesla Model X

    trip:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    The new Tesla Roadster will turn some heads. 0-60 1.9 sec. 0-100 8.6 sec and top speed 250 mph. 

    Tesla Roadster will smoke every production gas car at least in acceleration. According th Musk it has a range of 650 miles. 

     

    Physically it's impossible to get a 1.9 sec 0-60 on street tires.

    The current record, 2.2 seconds by the 918 is pretty much AT the limit of street tire traction. The Model S is not far behind at 2.23. It's not about power and torque anymore.

    Anything better than those times needed to be on slicks.


    --

     

     

     

     

    I'll take the under (under 2 seconds) on this one.  To think the 918's time is the fastest a car can possibly accelerate for ever is a bit naive, especially considering the recent pace of tire improvement.

    I am a huge critic of Tesla, but the presentation tonight was impressive.  I remain skeptical regarding whether they can execute on the new promises, but taking deposits for both the Semi and Roadster may help them squeak by until they reach cash flow break even (may never happen).

    By the way the 0-100 mph time is 4.2 seconds, not 8.6.  Apparently it will do the quarter mile in 8.9 seconds.  Again, these are better figures than those of the holy trinity, (Chiron as well?).  Not to mention 620 mile range.

    TO BE CLEAR - I am not convinced Tesla can pull this off, but if they do they will have earned massive respect in my book.

     

    918, and the Model S, while doing 2.2 2.23 seconds 0-60, is averaging ~1.24g for the run. That's pretty much at the top range of street tire grip. Extra power will just spin the tires and not helping.

    To do 1.9 second 0-60 needs an average of 1.44g, that's well into racing slicks territory.

    This is just simple physics. Tires is the limiting factor, not power nor weight.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X

    So far Tesla's have lived up to the claims. I think it's quite possible this one does too. Tires have improved a lot. Maybe they are just using a unique and unreleased compound.


    Re: Tesla Model X

    noone1:

    So far Tesla's have lived up to the claims. I think it's quite possible this one does too. Tires have improved a lot. Maybe they are just using a unique and unreleased compound.

     

    Hmm, Model 3 production target anyone?


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X

    Performance claims and range claims.


    Re: Tesla Model X

    noone1:

    Maybe they are just using a unique and unreleased compound.

    Surely you can't be that naive?  ... I think they also discovered cold fussion and are looking for investors too, you may be interested smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Model X

    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:

    Maybe they are just using a unique and unreleased compound.

    Surely you can't be that naive?  ... I think they also discovered cold fussion and are looking for investors too, you may be interested smiley

    Why? It's not like anyone else is using tires you can buy right now.

    Where can I buy the Cup2 that Porsche used on the NR run?


    Re: Tesla Model X

    noone1:
    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:

    Maybe they are just using a unique and unreleased compound.

    Surely you can't be that naive?  ... I think they also discovered cold fussion and are looking for investors too, you may be interested smiley

    Why? It's not like anyone else is using tires you can buy right now.

    Where can I buy the Cup2 that Porsche used on the NR run?

     

    Buy a GT2RS and it comes with it Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X

    Whoopsy:

    918, and the Model S, while doing 2.2 2.23 seconds 0-60, is averaging ~1.24g for the run. That's pretty much at the top range of street tire grip. Extra power will just spin the tires and not helping.

    To do 1.9 second 0-60 needs an average of 1.44g, that's well into racing slicks territory.

    This is just simple physics. Tires is the limiting factor, not power nor weight.

     


    You're wrong.

    918 is a great car, no doubt about that. But in terms of physics a car with the Tesla Roadster platform can put down much more power to the tarmac due to all weight down low in the floor and the 3 motors can power the wheels and optimize traction in miliseconds. That makes a HUGE difference. This is the main advantage why Model S can propel it's 2,5 ton weight in 2,5 sec to 60. Try this with a ICE-drivetrain where you can't put the weight down that low even how hard you try. Impossible with e.g. Merc E-class even with 800 hp...


    Re: Tesla Model X

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    918, and the Model S, while doing 2.2 2.23 seconds 0-60, is averaging ~1.24g for the run. That's pretty much at the top range of street tire grip. Extra power will just spin the tires and not helping.

    To do 1.9 second 0-60 needs an average of 1.44g, that's well into racing slicks territory.

    This is just simple physics. Tires is the limiting factor, not power nor weight.

     


    You're wrong.

    918 is a great car, no doubt about that. But in terms of physics a car with the Tesla Roadster platform can put down much more power to the tarmac due to all weight down low in the floor and the 3 motors can power the wheels and optimize traction in miliseconds. That makes a HUGE difference. This is the main advantage why Model S can propel it's 2,5 ton weight in 2,5 sec to 60. Try this with a ICE-drivetrain where you can't put the weight down that low even how hard you try. Impossible with e.g. Merc E-class even with 800 hp...

     

    Dude, you might want to go brush up Physics 101 again. and also re-read my post.

    it's not about putting down all available power, it's about the traction the rubber can generate against the road surface. The 2.5 ton weight of the Model S means nadda when doing 0-60. It actually helped with pressing tires firmly onto the road.

    The amazing time a Model S and the 918 can put down is due to the instant torque the electric motors can put out. 

    Give both cars slicks that are up to operating temperatures and they both have enough power to do sub 2 seconds 0-60.

    It's about traction not power that's limiting the time.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Model X

    It's possible that new tires will allow it. Will depend on downforce too (though it doesn't look like it has that much, though I'm not downforce expert.)


    Re: Tesla Model X

    noone1:
    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:

    Maybe they are just using a unique and unreleased compound.

    Surely you can't be that naive?  ... I think they also discovered cold fussion and are looking for investors too, you may be interested smiley

    Why? It's not like anyone else is using tires you can buy right now.

    Where can I buy the Cup2 that Porsche used on the NR run?

    Yes but they don't have a unique magical undiscovered technology or compound never seen before that can give street tires the grip of race slicks, just a gradual improvement over existing tires as we see every year. And its not Tesla developing the tires, its Michelin, and they sure are not going to give a revolutionary game changing tire to Tesla in secret for them to post 0-60 times and give Porsche and the rest of their big customers "normal" Cup2 tires.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Model X

    Tesla Model S Fails To Lap Nurburgring Under Full Power

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJT4OtufDss

     

    “The lap itself was around 10 minutes Bridge to Gantry (in heavy  traffic) but unfortunately the car went into a reduced power mode about 3  minutes in due to excess battery heat (at least, that’s my guess).”

    SmileySmiley


    Re: Tesla Model X

    What was the pace in the first 3 minutes?


    Re: Tesla Model X

    Topspeed:

    Tesla Model S Fails To Lap Nurburgring Under Full Power

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJT4OtufDss

     

    “The lap itself was around 10 minutes Bridge to Gantry (in heavy  traffic) but unfortunately the car went into a reduced power mode about 3  minutes in due to excess battery heat (at least, that’s my guess).”

    SmileySmiley

    Georg Kacher in the December issue of Car Magazine states that the Porsche Mission E will have a two speed transmission.  This should help with higher driving speeds.  Tesla, though not mentioned, has specced a similar transmission for the Roadster, otherwise 250 mph and a 0-60 time of 1.9 seconds would be mutually exclusive of each other.   Amperage drawndown is a significant issue and the internal wiring changes in the battery pack is why a P100D, in the States,  costs $36,000 more than the slower 100D.  


    Re: Tesla Model X

    noone1:

    What was the pace in the first 3 minutes?

     

    Had you click the article you would have found out.

    “The lap itself was around 10 minutes Bridge to Gantry (in heavy traffic) but unfortunately the car went into a reduced power mode about 3 minutes in due to excess battery heat (at least, that’s my guess).”

    “However, before it did it was able to keep a GT3 RS going full chat, within shouting distance (at the 2:00 mark) far longer than any 4,700lb sedan has a right to.”

    “I think without the reduced power output and traffic, a B-T-G lap under nine minutes is possible. According to the Bridge To Gantry site, that would put it in the company of some really quick hot hatches.”

    It was on pace to do a sub-9 minute lap, on par with hot hatches. 

    Which means not much difference between full power and limb mode. One minute difference. 


    --

     

     


     
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