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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:

    ISUK is correct.


     

    That sucks.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    reginos,

    You are simply not going fast enough if you are worried about what's going on behind you

    Buy a turbo S ........... then you really won't need to be concerned as everything will be behind you  

    I wish I could buy a Turbo S. Then I would definitely have all 3 rear view mirrors removed Smiley

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
     The M3 has more space, rides better, has better balance, is just as quick, sounds better, is cheaper etc etc.  The list goes on.  

    Are you serious (Better balance, just as quick...) Smiley The rest of your list is OK though Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I had been going through all photos on the centre console....  the runroof button area. 

    why is it that some photos with three rolls of buttons and some with two... missing the top runroof button... can someone help me check the differences....


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    WAY:
     The M3 has more space, rides better, has better balance, is just as quick, sounds better, is cheaper etc etc.  The list goes on.  

    Are you serious (Better balance, just as quick...) Smiley The rest of your list is OK though Smiley

    911 is far from being a balanced car.  We have just learned to drive around it's shortcomings and have in fact endeared it so much that we now dread that it's going to be too mid engined like (ie. much more balanced).  For the average person out there who has never owned a 911, a M3 is infinitely more balanced car than 911.  And yes, M3 is just as quick if not faster than a C2 (not C2S obviously).  I don't have any track times to back me up but for sure the M3 feels like the faster car. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    reginos,

    You are simply not going fast enough if you are worried about what's going on behind you

    Buy a turbo S ........... then you really won't need to be concerned as everything will be behind you


    Absolutely agree. Smiley

    Concerning the mirrors, I find the bigger mirrors of the 997.2 very helpful for rear view. They may not be as elegant as those of the 997.1, but they are far from being ugly and still have an elegant shape, whereas the door mounted mirrors look somehow clumsy. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    MKSGR:
    WAY:
     The M3 has more space, rides better, has better balance, is just as quick, sounds better, is cheaper etc etc.  The list goes on.  

    Are you serious (Better balance, just as quick...) Smiley The rest of your list is OK though Smiley

    911 is far from being a balanced car.  We have just learned to drive around it's shortcomings and have in fact endeared it so much that we now dread that it's going to be too mid engined like (ie. much more balanced).  For the average person out there who has never owned a 911, a M3 is infinitely more balanced car than 911.  And yes, M3 is just as quick if not faster than a C2 (not C2S obviously).  I don't have any track times to back me up but for sure the M3 feels like the faster car. 

     My wife also owns an M3. While this car has a lot of qualities (and I agree the price-quality ratio is good) I don't like the handling too much. Major "problems" are: (i) too much weight at the front end of the car (feels way too heavy when turning into bends), the steering doesn't feel well (too light and indirect), (iii) the brakes are not strong enough - they really suffer if you use them harder (you can already feel it on the Autobahn, not just on the track). From a technical perspective, PDK seems much more refined than BMW's DSG Smiley

    But again: the M3 is still a good car - I just think the 997 is superior in every aspect of driving dynamics (except, maybe, for straight-line performance where I would have to look up the numbers) SmileySmileySmiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    WAY:
    As in you can't get one till 2013? I mean, similarly, you can't get a C2S till Dec/Jan next year, but we saw and started discussing the car in August. As I said, I'm in two minds. Maybe wait till I can spec one out here and see how much it is and what kind of discount my dealer will give for it.
    I have had a chance to go through the English brochure in detail. Here are three of my beef with the 991:
    1. Why is the interior only 25mm increase in the front leg room? Does this mean that the engine has been moved forward 75mm? That is a lot! Please please please don't let this change the way a 911 drives. Yes I know, don't judge till we have had a chance to drive it, but just saying!
    2. Why have they specifically said that the leg room is improved for front only? Does this mean that the rear leg room has not change? I mean this is marketing writing, and if there is anything to boast about, especially an increase in leg room for the rear seat to make this a more practical car, don't you think that is the first thing they would have said?
    3. I'm disappointed that the PCCB is the same as before. 350mm all round enough for a car this fast and track worthy? My Spyder has the same brakes and it's quite a bit lighter. Would have been nice with the 380mm PCCB on my GT3! (ok that is day dreaming stuff as they would never do that).

    Anyone in the know care to comment about item 1 and 2 above that I brought up?  
     

    Btw moderators, isn't it time to create a 991 sub forum? Smiley


    1, YES, the engine has been moved forward.

     

    The last real rear engined car is the 997.2, the actual 991 has similar eninge position like 458 Italia


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    1, YES, the engine has been moved forward.

     

    The last real rear engined car is the 997.2, the actual 991 has similar eninge position like 458 Italia


    So you're saying the 911 is now mid engined..? I don't think so...
    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Budster:
    1, YES, the engine has been moved forward.

     

    The last real rear engined car is the 997.2, the actual 991 has similar eninge position like 458 Italia

     

    So you're saying the 911 is now mid engined..? I don't think so...

     You're getting rumors mixed up from another forum. The engine placement is nothing like the 458 Italia. The engine in the 991 is all either above or behind the rear axle.

    And guys, I believe on U.S spec cars the start-stop is switched off standard, but on R.O.W models it is on when ever you start the car


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:

     

    And guys, I believe on U.S spec cars the start-stop is switched off standard, but on R.O.W models it is on when ever you start the car

     

    Very nice!


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    W8MM:

    One needs to keep in mind that Porsche feels very threatened by the Greens in their home country.  All their product engineers and most of their development people live in Germany and feel the social pressures that come with being there.  They are bound to calculate the importance (political impact) of energy savings at a different rate irrespective of their personal feelings about the matter.

    I got used to the engine start/stop feature in my kids' Honda Civic Hybrid.  At first, it seemed like the engine had died unexpectedly, but with experience I kind of looked forward the engine saving gas at a traffic signal.  It was just fine except for the fact that the Honda's air conditioning compressor was driven by the engine and during long stops in the summer the car became uncomfortable.

    In my Panamera, all the important functions are electrically driven so the engine stopping doesn't affect my comfort at all.  The only reason for me not to use the feature is that the engine restart draws enough current from the electrical system that it produces a momentary brown-out of the 12 volt supply to my radar detector which cycles the start-up sequence.  That's very annoying, but we're about to release a brown-out-booster to cure the problem once and for all.

    In sum, start/stop on a 911 wouldn't really bother me for use in stop and go traffic and it wouldn't activate during spirited driving anyway.  What's not to like except change?


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

     

    Mike,

    Thanks for some great insight w/ real world experience. "electrically driven"......You're already ahead of the game w/ a Valentine that adjusts, very cool...

    The concern I have wouldn't be for a Civic Hybrid or even a Panamera. My next 911 (if I end up selling my 997 Turbo Cab) will be another Turbo Cab. And like my current Turbo Cab it probably will have an after-market exhaust just speculating, maybe, maybe not.. But anyway a Cab that is louder than stock where the engine is turning off & back on sounds like it would be head banging annoying. It's made worse because Sport turns it off but I don't drive in traffic in sport, normal mode makes the car easier to drive in stop & go traffic. The EVOMS tune only increases this... Plus I almost always shift to neutral when in bad stop & go traffic, constantly holding down the clutch in really bad stop & go traffic can get tiresome...There's days where I hit no traffic but there are days where I'm in 2+ hours of traffic... Guess there will be a button to turn it off but having to use a button every time for something that you really don't want in the first place sounds almost as annoying that the stop & start engine noise in a cabriolet....

    I completely get your comments regarding " Porsche feels very threatened by the Greens in their home country".. It's just sucks imo. I know "times they are a changing" and there's basically nothing I can do about it except maybe keep my 997 Turbo Cab.. I was thinking of holding onto it anyway.  It's probably over-reacting, not buying the new car because of start/stop but that's honestly just how I feel right now...     

    Porsche-Jerk - - Regarding other people thinking you don't know how to drive, you just stalled your 911, over & over again, I hadn't even thought of that, just great.... I can picture the awkward conversations after someone hears your car stall & start & stall again... You'd be like "it's the new tech, you know start/stop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,uhhhh saves gas,,,,,,".. Smiley

    If what "Carrara" stated is true about US cars that would be great for US customers... Or why make it standard at all, Porsche is the BEST at the options game, make it an option... Choice is good, no?  I just wonder how many people that are saying they like the idea would actually BUY it as an option... 


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    STRADALE:

    If what "Carrara" stated is true about US cars that would be great for US customers... Or why make it standard at all, Porsche is the BEST at the options game, make it an option... Choice is good, no?  I just wonder how many people that are saying they like the idea would actually BUY it as an option... 

    In my 2010 Panamera Turbo, the start/stop function is always off when starting up.  One has to manually select it "on" to make it function for each trip one takes in the car.

    In a pilot-run PCNA-owned Cayenne Hybrid which I drove for a few days (prepping for a talk), the start/stop feature control was "sticky".  It remained in the last position selected (push-on, push-off) on subsequent re-starts..

    Neither of these control schemes seems intrusive or hard to get along with.  I only wish the 2010 Panny Turbo had the "sticky" control feature.  I'd probably leave it "on".


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    STRADALE:
    W8MM:

    One needs to keep in mind that Porsche feels very threatened by the Greens in their home country.  All their product engineers and most of their development people live in Germany and feel the social pressures that come with being there.  They are bound to calculate the importance (political impact) of energy savings at a different rate irrespective of their personal feelings about the matter.

    I got used to the engine start/stop feature in my kids' Honda Civic Hybrid.  At first, it seemed like the engine had died unexpectedly, but with experience I kind of looked forward the engine saving gas at a traffic signal.  It was just fine except for the fact that the Honda's air conditioning compressor was driven by the engine and during long stops in the summer the car became uncomfortable.

    In my Panamera, all the important functions are electrically driven so the engine stopping doesn't affect my comfort at all.  The only reason for me not to use the feature is that the engine restart draws enough current from the electrical system that it produces a momentary brown-out of the 12 volt supply to my radar detector which cycles the start-up sequence.  That's very annoying, but we're about to release a brown-out-booster to cure the problem once and for all.

    In sum, start/stop on a 911 wouldn't really bother me for use in stop and go traffic and it wouldn't activate during spirited driving anyway.  What's not to like except change?


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

     

    Mike,

    Thanks for some great insight w/ real world experience. "electrically driven"......You're already ahead of the game w/ a Valentine that adjusts, very cool...

    The concern I have wouldn't be for a Civic Hybrid or even a Panamera. My next 911 (if I end up selling my 997 Turbo Cab) will be another Turbo Cab. And like my current Turbo Cab it probably will have an after-market exhaust just speculating, maybe, maybe not.. But anyway a Cab that is louder than stock where the engine is turning off & back on sounds like it would be head banging annoying. It's made worse because Sport turns it off but I don't drive in traffic in sport, normal mode makes the car easier to drive in stop & go traffic. The EVOMS tune only increases this... Plus I almost always shift to neutral when in bad stop & go traffic, constantly holding down the clutch in really bad stop & go traffic can get tiresome...There's days where I hit no traffic but there are days where I'm in 2+ hours of traffic... Guess there will be a button to turn it off but having to use a button every time for something that you really don't want in the first place sounds almost as annoying that the stop & start engine noise in a cabriolet....

    I completely get your comments regarding " Porsche feels very threatened by the Greens in their home country".. It's just sucks imo. I know "times they are a changing" and there's basically nothing I can do about it except maybe keep my 997 Turbo Cab.. I was thinking of holding onto it anyway.  It's probably over-reacting, not buying the new car because of start/stop but that's honestly just how I feel right now...     

    Porsche-Jerk - - Regarding other people thinking you don't know how to drive, you just stalled your 911, over & over again, I hadn't even thought of that, just great.... I can picture the awkward conversations after someone hears your car stall & start & stall again... You'd be like "it's the new tech, you know start/stop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,uhhhh saves gas,,,,,,".. Smiley

    If what "Carrara" stated is true about US cars that would be great for US customers... Or why make it standard at all, Porsche is the BEST at the options game, make it an option... Choice is good, no?  I just wonder how many people that are saying they like the idea would actually BUY it as an option... 


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia

     They won't make it optional, because they need it to meet emission standards.

    If it really bothers you that much, just hit the switch on the center console every time you start the car, and I'm sure if you take it to the right company they can find a way to switch it off permanently. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY: 
    Aside from wanting a Porsche or the unique way in which a 911 drives, I really cannot see why anyone would pay a premium buying a C2 over an E92 M3 ZCP.  The M3 has more space, rides better, has better balance, is just as quick, sounds better, is cheaper etc etc.  The list goes on.  You could even say the same thing about C2S.  Now the goal post may have moved with the 991, but what I said above certainly applies to 997.1 and even 997.2.  But hey, M3 is coming towards the end of life too and I am sure the next one will move it forward in big strides again. 

    +1 Smiley Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Budster:
    STRADALE:
    Budster: I also don't know why I'm feeling cranky, and I'm not a climate-change denialist, but I've decided that I'll help the planet in other ways, not with my car.  I see my mpg as a target - the worse it is, the more fun I'm having...

     

    EXACTLY! Smiley Well said..... Smiley And that is coming from a "denialist" Smiley "Man made Global Warming" denier that is, climate changes naturally,,,,, always,,,,,, no denying that...

    STRADALE, I'm not a denialist (I'm not sure if you were referring to yourself or had mis-read my thread?) - as I'm not a scientist, and although I'm a keen cynic, in this debate I've decided to outsource my belief to the publication I trust the most: The Economist.

    The Economist accepts global warming, and accepts that it is "very likely" that man has "contributed" to global warming.  So I'm happy to turn off the lights I'm not using, etc etc, but life is too short to give up everything.

    Having slept on it, I'm a bit more relaxed on the auto-start, as the fact that it can be switched off (IF it turns out to be annoying) just goes to show that Porsche are playing the game with the politicians perfectly well.  They are progressing science and technology along with other manufacturers that will "most likely" help the planet for the vast majority of people who are happy to save mpg, whilst allowing us guys to get to the garden centre quicker to buy our trees for the tree-planting session at the kids' school.  (The fold down back seats are specially designed for tree-planting ceremony logistics).

     Let's be thankful that the politicians and car manufacturers (and their powerful global lobby) are playing the game so cleverly - otherwise there is no reason why cars are not all already fitted with GPS devices to limit top speeds to 60km/hr in urban areas and 100km/hr elsewhere.  The Nissan GTR already has this technology that un-limits the delimiter when it arrives at a track!  The GPS is already fitted in all our cars, and some new cars allow parents to limit speeds for their kids' cars - so if it wasn't for the game they're playing, the sportscar would be dead already.

    So a little switch is fine...


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com

     

    Yeah, when I said: "coming from a "denialist"  ---- I was referring to myself.

     

    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    WAY:
     The M3 has more space, rides better, has better balance, is just as quick, sounds better, is cheaper etc etc.  The list goes on.  

    Are you serious (Better balance, just as quick...) Smiley The rest of your list is OK though Smiley

    Marcus,

    I have owned 3 generation of M3s (E36-E46-E92) and 997.1 Carrera S.  M3 has all the benefits of having front engine/ rear wheel drive chassie and has 50-50% weight distribution. It is easier to keep the car on the limit and to throttle steer the car on long corners with just with throttle/steering balance. The traction on my ex-997.1 was much more than any M3 I had due to huge rear tires and heavy rear which have 2 big downsides:

    1) If you ever have to lift off the throttle in a corner, the car immediately starts to oversteer and this kind of oversteer, unlike throttle oversteer, is very dangerous. I always drive my cars DSC/PSM off unless it is raining. Once. I was fast into a corner and just in the middle of it, there was a car on my lane and I had to slow down so I lift off the throttle. Once I released the throttle, I had a sudden oversteer, I over corrected it and it went to other side. I countersteered to other side again. When I was just thinking that I'm loosing the back end completely, my lane had cleared and I just put my foot on the throttle and catched the back end. As soon as I regained the control, I checked the speedo and it was 155 km/h. It was the scariest moment I had in my 997. After 2 weeks from this incident, I wanted to try the same corner again. I was little aggrasive and quick with the steering wheel and never lift of the throttle. In the end my exit speed was above 170 km/h. So, 2 different scenario with huge speed difference.

    2) 911 throttle steers like on/off switch. Because of the rear wheel drive, Carrera/Carrera S oversteers on corner exits if it is provoked, BUT it gains the traction very quickly so you have to be quick with the steering like an on/off switch. On the other hand, with M3, you can just hold the car with throttle and steering wheel inputs on very long drifts.

    As for the faster car argument; I think we shall discuss straight line and track performance separately. E92 M3 w/DKG is faster than 997.1 Carrera S 6MT and 997.2 Carrera w/ PDK +SC (coupe) on a straight line.

    BUT, I guess 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK + SC and 997.2 GTS are both faster than M3. However, my M3 does 0-200 km/h sprint in just under 14 sec  only with Akrapovic EVO exhaust + software upgrades. This sprint time is on par with 911 GTS.

    For track times: E92 M3 w/DKG and competition pack is slightly faster than 997.1 Carrera S 6MT around the Ring and just a tad slower than 997.2 Carrera S w/PDK + SC + PCCBs.

    IMO, the weakest side of the M3 against a 911 is its the brakes. I had the standart steel brakes on my 911 and they were just perfect. Actually, they were much better than M3's brakes.


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    W8MM:


    In a pilot-run PCNA-owned Cayenne Hybrid which I drove for a few days (prepping for a talk), the start/stop feature control was "sticky".  It remained in the last position selected (push-on, push-off) on subsequent re-starts...


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

    That would be ideal , even better than defaulting to turning OFF after each shut down,  for the times when I'm running multiple errands at various places and prefer to have the start/stop working the entire time that day.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    W8MM:
    STRADALE:

    If what "Carrara" stated is true about US cars that would be great for US customers... Or why make it standard at all, Porsche is the BEST at the options game, make it an option... Choice is good, no?  I just wonder how many people that are saying they like the idea would actually BUY it as an option... 

    In my 2010 Panamera Turbo, the start/stop function is always off when starting up.  One has to manually select it "on" to make it function for each trip one takes in the car.

    In a pilot-run PCNA-owned Cayenne Hybrid which I drove for a few days (prepping for a talk), the start/stop feature control was "sticky".  It remained in the last position selected (push-on, push-off) on subsequent re-starts..

    Neither of these control schemes seems intrusive or hard to get along with.  I only wish the 2010 Panny Turbo had the "sticky" control feature.  I'd probably leave it "on".


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T

     

    If that's the case w/ the new 911, that it will be off,,unless turned on then except for the fact we're all getting screwed by PCness & paying more on the MSRP for stuff some of us don't want then that would be great. In fact if Porsche is actually getting away with it, saying that it increases mpg but it's off till you turn it on, I would applaud them for giving it to the greenies.

    Sorry for the rant, really... - For me it isn't just this,,it's all a culmination of disgust. I read on RT the other day how Ethanol affects your engine... You can't pick up a sports car magazine without half of it talking about cylinder deactivation, hybrid or whatever stop gap gimmick that in years come will just be laughed at....I can imagine in years from now my son being like: 'your Porsche would stall at traffic lights,,on purpose??? Pffffffttttt!!'.....  I've been waiting for the new Grand Cherokee SRT to come out to maybe replace my SUV... I read approx. 2 weeks ago in one of the first road tests that it has cylinder deactivation & when it turns on/off whatever,, the truck goes from a nice exhaust rumble to making a "flat buzzing noise"... Smiley Sounds like just what I wanted in a 470HP V8 HEMI "Street Racing" Behemoth...

    If I wanted a 40mpg car, engineered from the start to be fuel efficient by running on half of one cylinder, 3 wheels,  a solar panel & a stop/start telescoping wind sail based on the direction of prevailing gusts,,,,  then I'd buy one. Well maybe not but close....Putting gimmicks like start/stop which can't account for more than a  a mpg or 2 or much less depending on how/where you are driving is ridiculous imo on a 500HP sports car with tires so wide they make the body bulge /become less aerodynamic with huge spoilers & monster radiator vents..  The minute you start driving the car really hard mpg from start/stop is gone so I would rather just have the CHOICE of whether I wanted to drive the car like an old lady and get 35mpg or drive it like I stole it & get whatever...Let free markets determine what sells... Look at the Volts sales or hybrids in general in the US, 60 something % of vehicles sold by GM are trucks,, if the market dictated start/stop then great but the fact that this tech is being paid for by us because it's being pushed onto car makers by further regulations/intrusive, wasteful Govt's is so hypocritical, honestly it makes me want to vomit..

    So what happens w/ start/stop w/ a stick shift on a steep incline?

    I can only imagine how many Porsche's are going to end up inside corner markets or the local Starbucks via wives or new drivers borrowing Porsche's... Can't be very good for the engine or battery either...The AC continues to blow as hard if you're in 100F and stopped in traffic for a few minutes & your headlights don't dim???

    I get the Porsche cool aide stuff, exciting to see a new model & it's Porsche so they must have done their DD but dunno, there's something REALLY unsettling to me about it.. For guys that like to have control over exactly what the car is doing via a stick, this is a step in the OPPOSITE direction. I'd rather keep the money it's going to add to the MSRP costs to spend on more gas...Smiley


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Here's a little information I found  on Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC)

    Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) is available as an option for the new 911 Carrera S. PDCC is an

    active roll stabilization system which detects the lateral inclination of the vehicle as soon as it begins

    and reduces it as much as possible. The system allows increased agility at speed, improved steering

    and balanced load change performance. It also reduces lateral rocking of the vehicle on uneven

    surfaces. This means that PDCC is not only a highlight in terms of driving dynamics but also

    improves comfort, especially when driving straight ahead.

    Compared to the PDCC system that is familiar in the Cayenne and Panamera models with a variable swivel

    motor and split stabilizer, the newly developed system for sports cars features actively adjustable hydraulic

    cylinders to take account of the limited space available and is approximately 16% lighter. Depending on the

    steering angle and lateral acceleration, a force is generated at each wheel that counteracts the lateral

    inclination of the vehicle.


    --

    2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Has LSD become standard with the 991? Just going through the U.S. configurator on a C2 and didn't see the option.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    dr.j:

    Has LSD become standard with the 991? Just going through the U.S. configurator on a C2 and didn't see the option.

    It's optional on the C2 and standard on the C2S.  Mechanical LSD on manual and electric LSD on PDK cars.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    W8MM:

    In a pilot-run PCNA-owned Cayenne Hybrid which I drove for a few days (prepping for a talk), the start/stop feature control was "sticky".  It remained in the last position selected (push-on, push-off) on subsequent re-starts..

    Neither of these control schemes seems intrusive or hard to get along with.  I only wish the 2010 Panny Turbo had the "sticky" control feature.  I'd probably leave it "on".


     

    Car makers NEEDED to learn to use sticky buttons, or give us big ass TOGGLE switches that STAYS where we put them.

    If only Porsche would make the Sports button sticky as well.

    My B7's suspension setting button is selectively sticky, it will stick on normal and comfort setting, but it resets every time I put it in Sports. Very annoying as I never drove the car on anything other than Sports, I had to press the button every time I gets in the car. Same thing with the Sports button in my Turbo.

    I can understand car makers dumb down the car for the certification process in the lab, where they needs to be boring to drive to save fuel. I don't mind the car being delivered in this dumb mode. But after delivery it is MY car and I would prefer having my OWN settings sticky-ed.

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    pride355:
    MKSGR:
    WAY:
     The M3 has more space, rides better, has better balance, is just as quick, sounds better, is cheaper etc etc.  The list goes on.  

    Are you serious (Better balance, just as quick...) Smiley The rest of your list is OK though Smiley

    Marcus,

    I have owned 3 generation of M3s (E36-E46-E92) and 997.1 Carrera S.  M3 has all the benefits of having front engine/ rear wheel drive chassie and has 50-50% weight distribution. It is easier to keep the car on the limit and to throttle steer the car on long corners with just with throttle/steering balance. The traction on my ex-997.1 was much more than any M3 I had due to huge rear tires and heavy rear which have 2 big downsides:

    1) If you ever have to lift off the throttle in a corner, the car immediately starts to oversteer and this kind of oversteer, unlike throttle oversteer, is very dangerous. I always drive my cars DSC/PSM off unless it is raining. Once. I was fast into a corner and just in the middle of it, there was a car on my lane and I had to slow down so I lift off the throttle. Once I released the throttle, I had a sudden oversteer, I over corrected it and it went to other side. I countersteered to other side again. When I was just thinking that I'm loosing the back end completely, my lane had cleared and I just put my foot on the throttle and catched the back end. As soon as I regained the control, I checked the speedo and it was 155 km/h. It was the scariest moment I had in my 997. After 2 weeks from this incident, I wanted to try the same corner again. I was little aggrasive and quick with the steering wheel and never lift of the throttle. In the end my exit speed was above 170 km/h. So, 2 different scenario with huge speed difference.

    2) 911 throttle steers like on/off switch. Because of the rear wheel drive, Carrera/Carrera S oversteers on corner exits if it is provoked, BUT it gains the traction very quickly so you have to be quick with the steering like an on/off switch. On the other hand, with M3, you can just hold the car with throttle and steering wheel inputs on very long drifts.

    As for the faster car argument; I think we shall discuss straight line and track performance separately. E92 M3 w/DKG is faster than 997.1 Carrera S 6MT and 997.2 Carrera w/ PDK +SC (coupe) on a straight line.

     

    Your description is 100% spot on. Depending on how you see it you could argue that the 911 setup is more risky (most car drivers would argue this way). Alternatively, you could also come to the conclusion  that the handling of the 911 is far more active and - if the car's reactions are factored in when driving it agressively - gives you an advantage because of the ability to control the car with the throttle input very easily (typical 911 fans would argue this way). Seems to be a matter of taste Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    STRADALE:

    Can't be very good for the engine or battery either...The AC continues to blow as hard if you're in 100F and stopped in traffic for a few minutes & your headlights don't dim???


    Probably the system works the same as in the BMWs, meaning:

    > it doesn't work as long as the engine is cold

    > it doesn't work when it's too cold outside (energy needed for heating the cabin)

    > it doesn't work when it's too hot outside (energy needed for cooling the cabin).

    I bet the norm cycle for measuring mpg or L/100 km works with a nicely warmed up engine and perfect weather Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porsche will be broadcasting the 991 press conference live via satellite from Frankfurt.  But from the press release it doesn't look like it will feed to the U.S.  Any ideas why?  Am I correct?


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Whoopsy:

    I can understand car makers dumb down the car for the certification process in the lab, where they needs to be boring to drive to save fuel. I don't mind the car being delivered in this dumb mode. But after delivery it is MY car and I would prefer having my OWN settings sticky-ed.


    +1 Smiley  Seems like a perfectly reasonable request - now if only someone from PAG would take notice!


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    STRADALE:
    .. Can't be very good for the engine or battery either...The AC continues to blow as hard if you're in 100F and stopped in traffic for a few minutes & your headlights don't dim???

    In the Panamera and Cayenne, there is some sort of battery state-of-charge monitor that decides when the battery has "had enough".  If the battery-powered functions like AC compressor have drained too much charge, the engine re-starts before anything bad happens to the battery.

    There is all sorts of "magic" going on behind the scenes to make the start/stop system ergonomically and technically successful.


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Does the stop mechanism turn the engine off everytime you stop?  Stupid question, but could not find answer before...


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Wonderbar:

    Does the stop mechanism turn the engine off everytime you stop?  Stupid question, but could not find answer before...

     On Panamera not - just as described above it depends on the a few conditions.


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


     
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