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    GTR vs CSL

    I need a track car that can carry bigger kids in the back and my son is getting too big 911 rear seats. My family love sports cars and they won't agree on any two-seaters.

    The list of four-seat cars that can lap the Ring in 7.50 or faster is very short.

    1. GTR with back seats for older kids and small women but not adult males.
    2 CSL with adult size back seats.

    The GTR is faster but the CSL is lighter, sounds better, looks better and is more fun. It is also five years old but I am still prefer it to a GTR. Pity there is no new CSL, but I guess the old one is still the best in its very small category of four-seat track cars.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    CSL!

    it's my favorite BMW


    Re: GTR vs CSL

    I AUM, would it not be better to just get another proper 4 seater sedan and keep your CSL as a track machine?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    I AUM, would it not be better to just get another proper 4 seater sedan and keep your CSL as a track machine?



    My family refuse to ride in family cars. They are sports car crazy

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    The CSL is without doubt the most amazing BMW ever made.

    What is your opinion of the CLK63 BS?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    new M5, new M3, C63? I have heard the GTR backseats are no usable than the 911 backseats?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    RS4? RS6?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    If you need the car for everyday use: GT-R
    It's just much more flexible as a everyday vehicle and as you can imagine, the suspension can be electronically softened for daily use.

    If you plan on using it as a weekend driver and track car: CSL
    It's more "involving" which is what you want on some backroad/track day jollies. The suspension is not what I'd call street friendly for everyday use (a bit too stiff).
    Not to mention, the CSL's track-day worthiness and reliability when pounded are without question.

    The GT-R is experiencing some "credibility" issues at the moment. :-)

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    CSL hands down....and dont forget is RWD..so more fun for track days..for me at least

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    new M5, new M3, C63? I have heard the GTR backseats are no usable than the 911 backseats?



    I just fit in the back of a GTR with a bent neck. But my seven year old son fits okay.
    The M5, M3 and C63 are not fast enough at the Ring. The GTR is much faster. Although the M3 with coilovers and lightened would be okay, but not better than the old CSL out of the box. The feel and balance of this car is amazing.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    I think the CSL does not have back seats, just CF sheeting.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    grecomfs said:
    I think the CSL does not have back seats, just CF sheeting.



    The CSL does have adult size back seats with headrests. The first release proto-type of the CSL did not have a rear seat.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    How about the new Cadillac CTS-V?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    CSL can be lightly modded (brakes, setup) to be a brilliant track car. You can get low mileage ones in mint condition, and they don't seem to depreciate at all...!

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    I would prefer the CSL, too.

    Or soomething really exotiv: CSl V8 from HArtge

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDe...amp;tabNumber=1

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    Ulrich said:
    I would prefer the CSL, too.

    Or soomething really exotiv: CSl V8 from HArtge

    http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDe...amp;tabNumber=1



    That is a very nice family car that should beat most exotics at the Ring.



    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    How about the new Cadillac CTS-V?



    Too heavy, the 7.59 factory claim is too slow, and it is not my style.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    From those two, I would get the CSL too!!!

    the sound of that car is intoxicating, its lighter, more fun track car, and depreciation has already hit the csl, while the GTR will kill you, when its time for re-selling it....

    Also the CSL, will mantain even better its value, I've been searching for second hand cars, with considerably kms, and they're price isnt cheap at ALL!!!! , its a collection car !!!!

    the thing is.....you have to be very carefull what CSL you buy, ...

    Also those alcantara backet seats, looks amazing, it reminds me of the carrera gt seats....all that carbon fiber in the cockpit...

    Its a car I would have in mind, doesnt matter if I was looking for a two or four seater!!!

    good luck !

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    SlvSurfer said:
    RS4? RS6?



    They are nice bad weather road cars cars but they are too heavy and too slow at the Ring.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    AUM is the 7:50 criteria yours or you kids? I need to start indoctrinating my kids in such a fashion!!

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    How about the new Cadillac CTS-V?


    Those are very affordable in the US, but aren't they very expensive in Europe?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    I don't mean to insult you but I doubt you can post the same ring times as the claims unless you race cars professionally.

    It's almost like saying I want a car with so and so drag coefficient. Its ridiculious. I guess the marketing of the ring times has really got to you.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    I AUM, would it not be better to just get another proper 4 seater sedan and keep your CSL as a track machine?



    My family refuse to ride in family cars. They are sports car crazy



    Haha, the are surely spoilt Good luck on your search, hope you find something that will suit you and your family perfectly

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    i know there is a gtr hatred issue on the board, but i would go for the GTR without the blink of an eye. i can't understand how you can compare it with the old m3 csl. your main concern is the ring, and the nissan has a sick ring time, in the same league than a gt2, plus you have all the technology and luxury of modern cars ( satnav, bose sound system etc..) , a much faster gear box .

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    SlvSurfer said:
    I don't mean to insult you but I doubt you can post the same ring times as the claims unless you race cars professionally.

    It's almost like saying I want a car with so and so drag coefficient. Its ridiculious. I guess the marketing of the ring times has really got to you.



    I do not race professionally but I do track frequently at the Ring and I need a car that is capable of 7.50 lap times to keep up with GT3s, etc.

    Heavy cars with slower lap times are no fun on the Ring even if they have huge horsepower like the RS6. The CSL was made for the Ring and its 7.50 Sport Auto time is very fast. And it just happens to have back seats. It seems to be in class of one.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    i know there is a gtr hatred issue on the board, but i would go for the GTR without the blink of an eye. i can't understand how you can compare it with the old m3 csl. your main concern is the ring, and the nissan has a sick ring time, in the same league than a gt2, plus you have all the technology and luxury of modern cars ( satnav, bose sound system etc..) , a much faster gear box .



    That is the first vote for the GTR. Any more?

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Vote 2 from me!

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    AUM is the 7:50 criteria yours or you kids? I need to start indoctrinating my kids in such a fashion!!



    The 7.50 Ring time is my idea as it is the CSL time and is close to GT3s etc. My son loves sports cars and studies back episodes of Top Gear for a couple of hours every day. He can quote all kinds of Ring times and HP numbers for lots of cars. He would chose the GTR because kids like comic book styling and faster numbers.

    But I much prefer the CSL as it is probably the most fun-to-drive four seater ever made.

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    i would still get the CSL, just for one unique reason, its engine sound....Dont compare the gtr sound vs a m3 csl sound , there is no competition whatsoever.


    If you like the sound that produces the wind, then get a GTR

    If you want a raw, sporty, throaty sound, then get the csl

    Also the gtr for daily driving and parking will be more difficult due to its size vs the csl, which is as big as a normal 3 e46 series....also if you are going to drive with the family, I hope you will park the car in many different parking spaces....can you imagine what could happen if you park a gtr to the public, they are very rare, and in more than one occasion you'll have a little surprise

    Oh and what about the price?...Here in Spain, GTR are something between 80.000 Euro , and a good shape second hand m3 csl goes for something like 50.000 Euro ...

    and as you are form germany, those prices are even more more cheaper.


    for me its no brainer......CSL

    oh and if you decide to get that rocket (THE GTR), DONT YOU EVER USE LAUNCH CONTROL , ( i suppose you know the story with launch control + gtr = warranty avoided + engine failures!!!

    Re: GTR vs CSL

    GTR will be faster on the Ring but for sure not due to the driver. CSL would be a great car for that and you can "tune" a bit.

    But for what you seem to need the RS4 is the perfect car and "good" value if you dont mind the fuel consumption!

     
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