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    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    WAY:
    I think I read here that the brakes on the C2S will come from the 997.2 turbo. If so, what is the rotor size for PCCB? I learn that on my Spyder, the PCCB is 350mm front and back, whereas with stock brakes they are 318mm/299mm. Similarly on my GT3, the PCCB looks bigger than the standard brakes. Actually does anyone know all the different sizes of PCCBs Porsche makes?

    If I'm not mistaken, PCCB is 380mm on the GT3 997.2, though I'm not sure the Turbo used the same brakes.. Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    nberry:

    Alan, my wife (the turbo is her car) initial wanted a quieter exhaust. Now even she says the car lacks drama( referring to the exhaust). Inexcusable for a $160,000 car. SmileySmiley


    --

     

     Would be interesting to know if the number of 997TT buyers who prefer a reduced exhaust note exceeds the number of buyers who prefer it louder. My gut feeling would be that many TT buyers like the understatement this car offers in combination with solid performance Smiley

    It would have been good to offer a PSE option, though.

    However, there is always the proviso that a flat 6 turbo cannot sound like a large capacity N/A V8. You cannot make the Porsche Turbo sound like the SLS for example, unless the sound came from a  recorded playback. That's a thing of the future that will come with electric cars.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos:
    BiTurbo:

    I think I read somewhere "PDCC" option for the new 991

    Indeed! It could be yours for 2.700 Euro before tax or 3.390 Euro with -20mm (031).

    On the S model only.

    One of the best features I've experienced in Porsche cars (2008 sold & 2011 CTT currentSmiley


    --

     

    http://i54.tinypic.com/34fcl7a.jpg


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Gnil:
    Carlos from Spain:

    I think that the 991 CarrerS with the all the sport options fitted (S-PASM-20mm with aero aids, PDCC, PDK & E-diff, SC-Plus, DEM, PTV, Sport Design package, etc) will be ground breaking fast for 400HP. Even faster than a 435HP 997.2 GT3 IMO.

     We will have to see...... but that would be fantastic. The only way I would not opt for the 991 GT3 is if the Carrera S with all the sports options has the same precision + front grip/handling/feeling/ efficiency  as the GT3 .

    I don't think it will "feel" like a GT3 though, I'm refering to efficiency and laptimes. The GT3 will still likely give you a sportier experience even though the lap times may not reflect it. Still, its a Carrera with its rear seats, creature conforts, street tires, everyday usability, etc. that would be matching the outgoing GT3 in performance if true.


    --


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Premium sport car buyers requirements have evolved especially with escalating prices. They want their cars to be distinguished and yes, noticed. It need not be in your face attention but certainly an attention getter.

    When I owned my 430, in a shopping center parking lot a woman with her teenage son stopped and admired the car as I was getting in. They waiting to hear me turn the engine on so they could listen to the exhaust. Unfortunately, when I started the car on it  sounded like a Turbo. A little bubbling and nothing more. Something was wrong with the car (which was later fixed) but the two of them looked at me with crestfallen faces. I told them something was wrong with the car. It does not sound the way it did. Smiley


    --

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

    When I owned my 430, in a shopping center parking lot a woman with her teenage son stopped and admired the car as I was getting in. They waiting to hear me turn the engine on so they could listen to the exhaust. Unfortunately, when I started the car on it  sounded like a Turbo. A little bubbling and nothing more. Something was wrong with the car (which was later fixed) but the two of them looked at me with crestfallen faces. I told them something was wrong with the car. It does not sound the way it did. Smiley 


    I'm sorry, I didn't know that you sold your 430.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKSGR:
    nberry:

    Alan, my wife (the turbo is her car) initial wanted a quieter exhaust. Now even she says the car lacks drama( referring to the exhaust). Inexcusable for a $160,000 car. SmileySmiley


    --

     

     Would be interesting to know if the number of 997TT buyers who prefer a reduced exhaust note exceeds the number of buyers who prefer it louder. My gut feeling would be that many TT buyers like the understatement this car offers in combination with solid performance Smiley


    I think it's the other way round: Most buyers accept the missing sound due to the perfect all-round attributes of the 997 Turbo/S. IMHO almost all of them would like to have a better composed and a little bit more noisy sound. At this point I must say that the Turbo S is of course far away from a sound hammer but has a very little bit growl and more engagement in this department likewise to the 997.1 Turbo. So far that is not so bad and I can accept it. For the 991 Turbo I hope firmly that they will have improved it.
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    +1Smiley

    As an indication of the importance of exhaust sound, can you imagine the 918 sounding like a Turbo?Smiley HOw many buyers would there be for the car?

    Spend $850,000 and it sounds like  pussy whimpering Prius.Smiley 


    --

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The BMW M5 is now twin turbo'd and has a manacing V8 growl, so I have always wondered why 911 Turbos are so docile sounding, even the S models. (Conventional thinking is the turbos muffle the flat 6 sound. )

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    BlackOctober:

    On the black one,the rear spoiler looks much wider open instead of yellow........

    1314456264059image.png.jpgP1013394_PM.jpg

    An optical illusion caused by the "fake" rear lights on the camo car extending further inboard than the real ones.  


    --

    fritz


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    I heard that the spoiler adjusts by the speed, can someone confirm this?

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    The info I have seen says that on cars equipped with the sunroof option the rear wing will adopt two different positions to ensure optimum aerodynamics depending upon whether the roof is open or closed.


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    The info I have seen says that on cars equipped with the sunroof option the rear wing will adopt two different positions to ensure optimum aerodynamics depending upon whether the roof is open or closed.

    That will refer to the "angle of attack" of the rear spoiler. Black October was referring to the width of the spoiler. The spoiler on both cars is the same width as the shut lines on the panel forward of the spoiler. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    He said "wider open" fritz, not wider as in width


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porker:
    WAY:
    I think I read here that the brakes on the C2S will come from the 997.2 turbo. If so, what is the rotor size for PCCB? I learn that on my Spyder, the PCCB is 350mm front and back, whereas with stock brakes they are 318mm/299mm. Similarly on my GT3, the PCCB looks bigger than the standard brakes. Actually does anyone know all the different sizes of PCCBs Porsche makes?

    If I'm not mistaken, PCCB is 380mm on the GT3 997.2, though I'm not sure the Turbo used the same brakes.. Smiley


    Thanks. I do recall reading that it is 380mm on the GT3. Can someone confirm if the turbo/turbo S uses the same 380mm PCCB? And does 997.2 C2/C2S/C4/C4S all use the same 350mm PCCB as the Boxster/Cayman then? For me braking power is as important if not more important than power, so I'm very interested to know.

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:
    Rossi:

    Nah, I'm gonna buy the Turbo, there it will be included. Smiley

     

    I've had the use of a 997.2 turbo S from my dealer for the last two days. That car is insanely fast Stefan Smiley  My deposit is down for a 991 turbo but I'll have a Carrera first then possibly a targa (if it comes before the launch of the turbo and has the original targa body style).

     

     Iain, you're not getting off that easy. You own a 458, Cali and spent two days driving a Turbo S. How about a little comparisons? Don't be concerned about offending anyone. You have considerable credibility with forum members.


    --

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    MKW:
    The BMW M5 is now twin turbo'd and has a manacing V8 growl, so I have always wondered why 911 Turbos are so docile sounding, even the S models. (Conventional thinking is the turbos muffle the flat 6 sound. )

     

    Sure, but imo, the M5 turbo sounds artificial; overdone. At least, judging from the videos posted here recently. 


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Does anybody know when we might get the web special and configurator?

    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Carrara:
    Does anybody know when we might get the web special and configurator?

     

    1st of september Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    Porsche-Jeck:
    BlackOctober:

    On the black one,the rear spoiler looks much wider open instead of yellow........

     

    If you order SPASM, the rear spoiler opens wider indeed + the front splitter comes in a different design (see page 45 of the "Katalog"). The brochure claims that with this spec the Carrera first time ever will produce downforce (not mentioned how much kg at which speed).
     

    That's a great attention to detail on behalf of Porsche. Typical of their thorough engineering Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    That's a great attention to detail on behalf of Porsche. Typical of their thorough engineering Smiley


    Dunno, I rather saw them concentrating on a proper sunroof that isn't so hideous when open. Hell, it's so gigantic that they need to alter the spoiler when speeding, sounds like engineering overkill.
    --

    Morgan Aero 8


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    nberry:

     Iain, you're not getting off that easy. You own a 458, Cali and spent two days driving a Turbo S. How about a little comparisons? Don't be concerned about offending anyone. You have considerable credibility with forum members.

     

    I'd owned a 997.1 turbo before Nick so wasn't a complete novice to the car but the .2 turbo S has even more savage acceleration and mechanical grip than you will ever really need on the open road. I found myself driving it faster than the 458 for a couple of reasons. Firstly the Porsche is a lot more subtle in traffic (the demo car was Basalt whilst my 458 is Rosso Corsa) so it is easier to make up ground without drawing attention to the fact you are doing so. People don't do silly manoeuvres around you just to see your car like they sometimes do with a Ferrari. Porsches are a common sight here so no-one, other than car enthusiasts, take much notice..... until you absolutely fly by them on an overtake that is Smiley  The second reason is that the car feels a lot smaller on the road and that inspires the confidence to clip apexes and corner faster as a result.

    There is no doubt that the Porsche lacks any sort of aural drama. The S is better than the standard turbo in this respect and has a bit of a growl but compared to the 458 it's almost mute. You really do get a savage kick though when the turbo spools up and launches you down the road. Unlike the linear power of the Ferrari engine this is more akin to flicking an on/off switch so is far more noticeable.

    As a devastatingly capable everday fast road car the turbo is king IMHO. It is inconspicuous enough (certainly here) to be left parked without worrying about it, has good levels of comfort (with the exception of the teeth jarring PASM sport mode - though this is better than it was on my Gen 1 turbo), is equally fast in the wet or dry and has more than enough power to dispatch traffic with absolute disdain given even a small window of overtaking opportunity.

    As a weekend/funcar it just isn't special enough IMHO and that's why I sold my Gen 1 car. It comes alive at speed but once you get used to that it then becomes a superbly competent, high end example of automotive white goods by which I mean it can be relied upon to do everything you ask of it but fades into the background of your consciousness. That just doesn't happen with Ferraris. You always know you are driving something special and more bespoke in the Italian car and it gives you a more tactile and involving experience. I'm sure you can relate to that Nick. The aural drama is there in both the 458 and Cali whenever you open the exhaust valves but falls away when cruising to leave you in relative calm. The acceleration is also immense but delivered in a more linear fashion. There is an almost indescribable feeling when you drive a Ferrari that just isn't there in a Porsche for me and many others I've spoken to. In the pursuit of perfection some of the emotion is dialled out in them and replaced by Teutonic efficiency which is a very different experience for the driver. Some people prefer that in a car and I can understand why but I'll take a bit of heart and soul every time when it comes to a weekend toy Smiley

    Having said all of that I'm really looking foward to the 991as a daily as I'm sure it will be a fantastic car. You never really appreciate the true qualities of a Porsche until you sell it and realise just how much you miss it IMHO. It's 4 years since I last owned a 911 and my brief stint in the turbo S rekindled that affection for the model.

    Porsche should come up with a new marketing strapline - "Warning - This car is so understatedly good that you may end up mistakenly thinking all cars are made this way" Smiley

     


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    spudgun:

    That's a great attention to detail on behalf of Porsche. Typical of their thorough engineering Smiley

     

    Dunno, I rather saw them concentrating on a proper sunroof that isn't so hideous when open. Hell, it's so gigantic that they need to alter the spoiler when speeding, sounds like engineering overkill.

    No, the wider opening rear spoiler is to match the different front splitter that generates less lift at the front. It is part of the Sport PASM package irrespective of sunroof.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:
    nberry:

     Iain, you're not getting off that easy. You own a 458, Cali and spent two days driving a Turbo S. How about a little comparisons? Don't be concerned about offending anyone. You have considerable credibility with forum members.

     

    I'd owned a 997.1 turbo before Nick so wasn't a complete novice to the car but the .2 turbo S has even more savage acceleration and mechanical grip than you will ever really need on the open road. I found myself driving it faster than the 458 for a couple of reasons. Firstly the Porsche is a lot more subtle in traffic (the demo car was Basalt whilst my 458 is Rosso Corsa) so it is easier to make up ground without drawing attention to the fact you are doing so. People don't do silly manoeuvres around you just to see your car like they sometimes do with a Ferrari. Porsches are a common sight here so no-one, other than car enthusiasts, take much notice..... until you absolutely fly by them on an overtake that is Smiley  The second reason is that the car feels a lot smaller on the road and that inspires the confidence to clip apexes and corner faster as a result.

    There is no doubt that the Porsche lacks any sort of aural drama. The S is better than the standard turbo in this respect and has a bit of a growl but compared to the 458 it's almost mute. You really do get a savage kick though when the turbo spools up and launches you down the road. Unlike the linear power of the Ferrari engine this is more akin to flicking an on/off switch so is far more noticeable.

    As a devastatingly capable everday fast road car the turbo is king IMHO. It is inconspicuous enough (certainly here) to be left parked without worrying about it, has good levels of comfort (with the exception of the teeth jarring PASM sport mode - though this is better than it was on my Gen 1 turbo), is equally fast in the wet or dry and has more than enough power to dispatch traffic with absolute disdain given even a small window of overtaking opportunity.

    As a weekend/funcar it just isn't special enough IMHO and that's why I sold my Gen 1 car. It comes alive at speed but once you get used to that it then becomes a superbly competent, high end example of automotive white goods by which I mean it can be relied upon to do everything you ask of it but fades into the background of your consciousness. That just doesn't happen with Ferraris. You always know you are driving something special and more bespoke in the Italian car and it gives you a more tactile and involving experience. I'm sure you can relate to that Nick. The aural drama is there in both the 458 and Cali whenever you open the exhaust valves but falls away when cruising to leave you in relative calm. The acceleration is also immense but delivered in a more linear fashion. There is an almost indescribable feeling when you drive a Ferrari that just isn't there in a Porsche for me and many others I've spoken to. In the pursuit of perfection some of the emotion is dialled out in them and replaced by Teutonic efficiency which is a very different experience for the driver. Some people prefer that in a car and I can understand why but I'll take a bit of heart and soul every time when it comes to a weekend toy Smiley

    Having said all of that I'm really looking foward to the 991as a daily as I'm sure it will be a fantastic car. You never really appreciate the true qualities of a Porsche until you sell it and realise just how much you miss it IMHO. It's 4 years since I last owned a 911 and my brief stint in the turbo S rekindled that affection for the model.

    Porsche should come up with a new marketing strapline - "Warning - This car is so understatedly good that you may end up mistakenly thinking all cars are made this way" Smiley 

    ISUK you are one of the very few qualified to write about these subleties. You are a man of automotive taste and experience. My compliments!

    If I got you right, the Ferrari is like an entertainer in a Martial Arts Reality Show whereas the Porsche is a "cold executioner" who gets the job done in real life.

    BTW how much different does the GT2 exhaust (Akrapovic, Titanium) sound, compared to the Turbo?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    reginos,

    Think of it this way :

    The 997.2 turbo S is like Matt Damon's Jason Bourne - ruthless when required, able to despatch the opposition with clinical efficiency, emotionally cold, prefers to be incospicuous and only go into action when absolutely necessary and is not a heart throb for the audience but is someone you could always depend upon.

    The 458 on the other hand is like Daniel Craig's James Bond - equally efficient at despatching the oppostion but does it with more theatrical flair, draws in the audience more as they all secretly want to be like him, is always on edge under the surface eager to show his talents, has more presence when he enters the room and has the ability to set pulses racing


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    But your 246 is like Sean Connery ;)
    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    easy_rider911:
    But your 246 is like Sean Connery ;)

    I would think of Sean Connery as a Ferrari 365 GTB/4 aka Daytona Smiley

    The 246 is too petit for Connery.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    easy_rider911:
    But your 246 is like Sean Connery ;)

     

    Ab-sho-lutely  Smiley


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    ISUK:

    reginos,

    Think of it this way :

    The 997.2 turbo S is like Matt Damon's Jason Bourne - ruthless when required, able to despatch the opposition with clinical efficiency, emotionally cold, prefers to be incospicuous and only go into action when absolutely necessary and is not a heart throb for the audience but is someone you could always depend upon.

    The 458 on the other hand is like Daniel Craig's James Bond - equally efficient at despatching the oppostion but does it with more theatrical flair, draws in the audience more as they all secretly want to be like him, is always on edge under the surface eager to show his talents, has more presence when he enters the room and has the ability to set pulses racing

    Hmmm, I've never liked Daniel's JB, as much.

    My favourite fictional assassin is the "Jackal" as played by Edward Fox in the 70s film. This is the Turbo parallel for me!
    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ladies and gentlemen, the new 991...

    KMM:

     

    Sure, but imo, the M5 turbo sounds artificial; overdone. At least, judging from the videos posted here recently. 

     Smiley Exactly my thoughts


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

     
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