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    False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Over the past few weeks, especially since the 997 showed up, we received a lot of eMails, PMs from our Users and we also read messages on other car forums.
    We just want to clarify a few points before people start to accept false, inaccurate and gossip information as REAL information:

    1. the 997 is not produced in Leipzig together with the Cayenne, this is absolutely untrue. Porsche produces the 997 in Zuffenhausen, same production facility as for the remaining 996 C4S, 996 Turbo and 996 GT3. The 996 models and the new 997 are actually assembled on the same production line.

    2. the new PCCB brake is not like the old one, this is (officially) the 2nd generation of the PCCB brake. I own it on my 997 and I can confirm that it has been improved a lot. Also the fact that Porsche starts to race the PCCB brake in a 997 GT3 Cup car says a lot about the new generation. It is still expensive, right but quality should be now at a level where expectations have been when the PCCB showed up on the market.

    3. there won't be a new 997 successor, the 998, after three years of production. We don't know who started this rumor but it is definetely wrong. Apparently some car magazines or car enthusiasts try to read "between the lines" when there is nothing to read.

    4. there won't be a V8 engine in the 997.

    5. the 997 has not been designed or even developped by VW designers. VW has no involvement in 997 development or design, the 997 is no Cayenne.

    6. the 997 is not just another facelifted 996, over 80-85% of the parts used for the new 997 are completely new compared to the 996.

    7. there will be more powerful versions of the 997 but not the Carrera or the Carrera S but the GT3 and Turbo and maybe other models later on. A powerkit for the 997 Carrera S can't be excluded for the future but it won't be more powerful than the upcoming 997 GT3 which is rumored at around 390 HP.

    8. right now there is no real way how to retrofit the 20 mm chassis with the LSD on PASM equipped cars.

    9. right now the Porsche sport exhaust has been announced for the Carrera S only! Some dealers apparently tell customers that the sport exhaust fits the Carrera too but this isn't correct.

    10. we cannot recommend messing around with the air filter box on the Carrera S. Exchanging the air filter with a sport air filter might be acceptable (Porsche however could void the warranty!) but DO NOT mess around with the air filter box because the so called Helmholtz Resonator is located there. If you remove the air filter airbox and install one of those aftermarket toys which promise more airflow, etc., you loose a part of your nice 911 sound!
    And it could also lead to problems with the electronics because the Helmholtz Resonator is controlled by rpm figure and temperature.

    11. the PCM media slot reads CDs only, DVDs do not work. Only a specific Nav DVD works in the unit in the luggage compartment under the front hood.

    12. avoid HiFi aftermarket installs due to the MOST bus technology of the 997. A lot of things can be messed up, don't forget that not only the sound system works over the MOST bus but also the engine electronics, alarm system, etc.

    13. installing a racing shell is impossible right now due to the fact that all 997 seat variants carry the side airbag in them. There might be a solution later on but right now, keep your hands off the seats!

    14. the airbag deactivation kit for the 996 does NOT work for the 997!!! Porsche offers a new kit which will work with the key (similar to the Cayenne airbag deactivation). This kit should be available for retrofit around Nov.
    To my knowledge, this kit also includes an Isofix retrofit.

    15. no, the 997 look isn't easily retrofittable for the 996.
    The 997 uses completely new body parts, retrofitting these body parts on a 996 would be, if possible, very very expensive. Not worth it. No, even the rear lights don't fit.

    16. the PCM phone module is NOT available for the US market due to different phone frequencies. A retrofit of the phone module does NOT work in the US!

    17. there is no oil dipstick on the 997, forget about it.
    Yes, the digital display is pretty accurate and the new improved system even "calculates" the correct oil level if the engine is cold or very hot.

    18. power upgrades using a modified engine ECU software are not recommended on the 997, such upgrades are actually not recommended on ANY normally aspirated car.

    19. no, the upcoming Porsche sport exhaust does NOT provide additional power but additional "throaty 911 sound". The 997 Carrera S exhaust already sounds nice, so check with your wife and your neighbors if you really want the sport exhaust.

    20. no, right now you cannot order the Chrono Sport Package without the stop watch on the dashboard.

    21. no, the Chrono Sport Package is actually not about the stop watch or lap time recording but there is a little button in the middle console which reads "sport" and changes a lot of engine/Tiptronic/PSM parameters to a more sporty and less intrusive software mapping. The throttle response is also enhanced.

    22. no, the adaptive sport seats do NOT adapt automatically like the seats in the Mercedes E-class for example.

    23. the 997 is the 911, 997 is only Porsche's internal model designation. The 997 is NOT the 911 successor, it is indeed the 911.

    24. despite the "retro-look", the 997 is still water-cooled.

    I add more points to this list as soon as we are completely through with our eMails, PMs and the posts on other forums.

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Cool points, very informative indeed .

    Porsche should have printed your bullet points and have mailed along the side with the marketing posters .

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Cool points, very informative indeed .

    Porsche should have printed your bullet points and have mailed along the side with the marketing posters .



    Ron, sometimes I really wonder how much BS is floating around dealers, Porsche clubs and especially the internet.
    The worst thing: people believe what they hear and it is difficult to convice them of the contrary.
    Porsche should pay me serious money for answering all those eMails, etc., sometimes I spend almost an hour per day ONLY for answering them.
    I'm not perfect and I surely don't know everything (I'm sometimes surprised how well informed a lot of our Users are and how fast the information flows, I can hardly keep up with it) but I wonder how grown up adult people can be so naive believing every BS they read on the internet or hear from other people. The "997 produced in Leipzig myth" actually made me quite furious, same with the "VW design for the 997" BS. Harm Lagaay is responsible for the 997 design, this is the same guy who designed the 993 and 996. No Volkswagen involved. Such things really make me angry.

    And you would be surprised how many incredible questions people can ask, sometimes I even wonder about their mental health status. One example: one guy seriously asked me if it is possible to add a 993 engine to the 997 Carrera! I thought he meant a 993 Turbo engine but no, he meant a 272 HP 993 engine he had left from a totaled car.
    Another guy stated in an eMail that his friend is working at Porsche in Germany and he told him that the 997 is just a 996 with a new body but the same internal parts and therefore a ripoff. All my arguments about new part numbers, technical differences, new production tools at the Porsche facility, etc. were useless, this guy insisted that his friend is working at Porsche and he knows 100% what he's talking about.

    We also get mails requesting job offers at Porsche(!), Porsche posters, "secret" information about future model upgrades ("pssstt...I won't tell anybody, just tell me...") and the most annoying ones are requests for testdrives ("I'm in Germany for a week, can I get your 997 Carrera S for a testdrive" or "I want to testdrive a GT3, never drove one, I drive a Honda Civic now, can you make arrangements" and so on... ). Not to speak about the tons of SPAM, surprisingly from many wannabee Porsche Tuners who want to sell their stuff.

    It takes a lot of time to keep this website up and running, not to speak about the valuable time you and the other moderators invest in Rennteam.com WITHOUT ANY PAYMENT or any similar stuff. Another weird thing: some Users don't believe me when I tell them that we have no sponsors, that we don't get any money for what we're doing. We are a bunch of enthusiasts and not people who want to make money with their fellow enthusiasts. Of course we would love to get money for what we're doing, we're only human. But we want to stay independent and honest and the only way to do this is by not accepting sponsors or funds of any kind.

    And we don't accept money from our Users because we don't want to feel any obligation to treat Users in a special way. IF we treat Users that way, we do it because of their "merits" (posting interesting information, keeping discussions running, helping us with the design, etc.).

    And now I stop before it gets boring again. I think I start sending you guys half of the mails and PMs to get a taste of what we have to deal with every single day. Ouch.

    PCCB

    Quote:
    RC said:
    2. the new PCCB brake is not like the old one, this is (officially) the 2nd generation of the PCCB brake. I own it on my 997 and I can confirm that it has been improved a lot. Also the fact that Porsche starts to race the PCCB brake in a 997 GT3 Cup car says a lot about the new generation. It is still expensive, right but quality should be now at a level where expectations have been when the PCCB showed up on the market.



    Sorry Christian, but as of right now, I am not willing to accept this as gospel. I've looked at these brakes and I don't see the differences. No one at Porsche has seen fit to tell me what the differences are. I've not heard from any of my sources that there are significant differences in the parts going into this system. And PAG has a track record of telling us that these brakes are significantly improved when they are not.

    Will PAG tell us exactly how they are "new and improved"? As far as I'm concerned, this is yet another case of PAG withholding information and demanding to be trusted. But when it comes to PCCB, they've used up their trust.

    I am going to "wait and see" how these new brakes work out. The proof will be in the pudding. I want to see them operating for a period without reports of problems. Then I will believe.

    Stephen

    Re: PCCB

    Quote:
    FixedWing said:

    Sorry Christian, but as of right now, I am not willing to accept this as gospel. I've looked at these brakes and I don't see the differences...
    Stephen


    What are you expecting to see the differences? The brakes are composite ceramic brakes. The largest difference would be the manufacturing techiques they use, how the composite is cured, the materials used, the weave of the carbon fiber, the internal design...

    All these changes would not be visible from the outside.

    Re: PCCB

    The most compelling reason that the PCCB's are different is that they are now standard in the new GT3 Cup car....

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    RC,
    Thanks for putting up with all these emails and pms that takes a lot of time, as you said.

    I'd be more than happy to answer some if you want to send it my way.

    From my past experience, if you answer the BS eMails and PMs with BS answer they won't bother you again ; for example, Does 993 engine fits 997? No, but 964 engine will

    Re: PCCB

    Stephen, I understand you. But they are different, it started with the 996 Turbo S.
    I don't know why they withhold information (as you say) because the press department actually made a pretty clear declaration about the new generation:

    For the first time the new Carrera features ceramic brake discs enhanced to an even higher standard, the new design of the interior cooling ducts increasing the flow of cool air through the spinning disc. At the same time the larger number of cooling ducts increases disc rigidity, in the process significantly reducing deformation of the disc under high pressure. A further point is the optimisation of fibre reinforcement on the friction surface of the brake discs, significantly enhancing the resistance to abrasion particularly under high loads. For the customer, these improvements mean even better performance, enhanced brake comfort, and even longer brake system life.

    All my sources confirm that, there has been a substantial improvement. This is why Porsche decided to install the PCCB on their new 997 GT3 Cup cars.

    At the same time, Porsche has become more "cautious" about their lifespan claims.
    A source told me that the new PCCB lasts around three times longer than the steel brakes at the same size if track raced. Sounds good to me, even if it still isn't worth the money for using it on the track. But the advantages of the new PCCB generation are pretty spectacular to my knowledge, I heard that a 997 equipped with the PCCB brakes from 200 km/h to 0 km/h in aprox. the same time as the Carrera GT does. And the Carrera GT has one of the best braking performances ever measured on a standard production street car with street tires (not even semi-slicks).

    Believe it or not...

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    for example, Does 993 engine fits 997? No, but 964 engine will




    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    In the seventh paragraph you mentioned the upcoming 997 GT3 and it's rumored HP, do you have any idea of it's release?

    Thanks

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    12. avoid HiFi aftermarket installs due to the MOST bus technology of the 997. A lot of things can be messed up, don't forget that not only the sound system works over the MOST bus but also the engine electronics, alarm system, etc.




    FWIW, this is not asolutely correct, but the effect is the same.

    MOST Bus (Media Oriented Systems Transport) is the Media/Communications (Radio, CD, Telephone, Navigation) side of the system, including fiber optical links.

    Engine, transmission, and chassis control systems, lighting, seat motors, window winders, AC controls, etc., are all powered and controlled by the CAN Bus (Controlled Area Network) side of the system.

    The two systems meet up in the car navigation units, such as Porsche's PCM system.

    Adding after-market alarm systems, for example, has been known to interfere with original-equipment keyless entry and and disabling (theft-proofing) systems, as RC implied.

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    RC I know how much time you spend and sometimes I can't believe how quickly you respond. I know how the rumors start having worked with Porsches for over 20 years. I also know the uninformed always think they know more. I had to put up with this. Just pay attention to those who truly understand cars and understand logic. This is the best forum on the net with the best logical information. I give you great credit for all your work and keep it up. Dan

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Hear hear

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    RC, I am reluctant to repeat the above but I guess a lot of people are happy with this forum! I appreciate the time you spend in here and I don't even want to figure how much work you've got behind the scenes...
    I just call for one thing: please don't forget your family over all of us geeks!

    Regarding the PCCB:
    I also believe that they've improved by now. Racing teams in Carrera- and Supercup would heavily complain if the system doesn't exceed their expectations! On the other hand it will be a very valuable proving ground for Porsche's brakes!
    I also believe that the improvement over the previous generation is on material components, mixture and production. Same goes on the brake pads - I just reread the first article in Sport Auto on the PCCB and even at that point Porsche was going to sell modified brake pads since the initial ones were clearly too soft for heavy duty!

    Greetings and good night!

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarify!

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    FWIW, this is not asolutely correct, but the effect is the same.

    MOST Bus (Media Oriented Systems Transport) is the Media/Communications (Radio, CD, Telephone, Navigation) side of the system, including fiber optical links.

    Engine, transmission, and chassis control systems, lighting, seat motors, window winders, AC controls, etc., are all powered and controlled by the CAN Bus (Controlled Area Network) side of the system.





    Thanks fritz, of course you're right. I just forgot to mention the CAN bus because for me as a computer freak, all this stuff is like a network and everything is connected one to each other.
    I always tend to "simplify" things, forgetting about highly knowledgable people like you but also other Users.

    It is very impressive to see how up to 29(!) control units are working together in the 997 and are exchanging up to 2 Megabyte of data per minute. The Controller Area Network is really an improvement but I bet we see much higher speeds in the near future.

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarif

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    The two systems meet up in the car navigation units, such as Porsche's PCM system.



    I've wrestled with installing a Traffic Pro (non-MOST) radio/CD/Nav in a 996 GT3 in place of a CDR-23. As both Fritz and RC have warned, you can cause unintended problems by fooling around with the headunit in a newer Porsche, because of how all the systems are designed to work together and talk to each other.

    In my case, the A/C stopped working. Never really understood why but it turned out to be an easy fix. We simply disconnected the CAN bus wire that runs to the connector on the back of the CDR-23 which fools the system into thinking there is no head unit installed in the car.

    As it was explained to me by the tech at my dealer, the CAN bus (copper wire based net) and MOST bus (fiber based net) meet at a communications hub that is installed in the dash unit, not in the NAV system, because not all cars have a NAV system.

    Karl

    Re: PCCB

    According to a recent post on this messageboard, a German magazine already track tested the 997 S:

    Quote:

    Now the most impressive thing, braking performance.
    from 200 kph (125 mph) to 0, the 997 Carrera S with standard brake needed 138,3 meters to come to a full stop.

    Comparison data:

    Porsche 996 GT3 MkI: 144,2 m
    Ferrari Challenge Stradale: 139,8 m (semi-slicks)
    Ferrari 360 Modena: 144,6 m
    Porsche 996 GT3 RS: 132,5 m (semi-slicks)
    Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2: 141,5 m
    Porsche 996 Turbo: 144,2 m
    Porsche Carrera GT: 133,9 m

    With the new improved PCCB, the braking performance is rumored to be in the 130 m range, similar to or even better than the Carrera GT braking performance.

    End quote.

    So it would seem that even the standard brakes are spectacular, though indeed the PCCB would be required to equal the GT's braking.

    I just mention this for those, like myself, that are getting a car with the standard brakes!

    Re: PCCB

    Quote:
    pnoble said:
    With the new improved PCCB, the braking performance is rumored to be in the 130 m range, similar to or even better than the Carrera GT braking performance.




    Now hold on ... you cannot base brake performance on rumors heard by a car magazine!!!

    On a car which is over-braked and has high-quality ABS, the tyres should be the limiting factor. On that basis, the braking distance should be identical.

    The only possible room for improvement would be if the reduced unsprung weight of the PCCB's allowed better tyre contact with the road.

    Stephen

    Re: False information, gossip and updates - trying to clarif

    Quote:
    ksalno said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    The two systems meet up in the car navigation units, such as Porsche's PCM system.



    As it was explained to me by the tech at my dealer, the CAN bus (copper wire based net) and MOST bus (fiber based net) meet at a communications hub that is installed in the dash unit, not in the NAV system, because not all cars have a NAV system.



    I didn't intend to suggest that the "physical" connection between the copper wire CAN bus and the fiber optic MOST bus is necessarily in a Nav system, but that the two systems typically "interface" at the Nav system (or on-board computer, if no Nav system is fitted), because these systems generally display information which has to be obtained from the CAN bus (speed, distance travelled, fuel tank content, rate of consumption, ...).

     
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