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    Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it UP!"

    Just talked to a business owner who over the past 25 years has been involved with Porsches and other fine cars. You'd maybe recognize it's name. Among a well-regarded regional reputation the business connects with Barret-Jackson every year etc etc... .

    Anyway the conversation turns to break in period (asked with reference to the new 997S I'm about to order). His answer is just drive the car HARD. Period. He's had numerous Porsches, dealt with numerous Porsches, sold and bought numerous Porsches, has a collection of numerous Porsches. That's only the Porsche side of his omnivorous fine automobile experience.

    Don't be afraid to burn the car up when you break it in. What does "burn it up" mean? It means drive the car hard? Drive it hard according to your personality; assuming you're not a violent psychotic, the engine's longevity and power output should be much the better for it. He reaffirms our suspicion here on RT Board that the owner's manual recommendations are the best way for Porsche serve it's own interests.



    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it UP!"

    "He reaffirms our suspicion here on RT Board that the owner's manual recommendations are the best way for Porsche serve it's own interests"

    What would those "interests" be I wonder? Did he elaborate on what he thought Porsche's interests were and why they would seem counter to our interests?

    Fewer warranty claims perhaps? If that's the case then they would be my "interests" too....

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it UP!"

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    "He reaffirms our suspicion here on RT Board that the owner's manual recommendations are the best way for Porsche serve it's own interests"

    What would those "interests" be I wonder? Did he elaborate on what he thought Porsche's interests were and why they would seem counter to our interests?

    Fewer warranty claims perhaps? If that's the case then they would be my "interests" too....



    Heh, you just made a compelling case for following the manual instead of "burn[ing] it up!"

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it UP!"

    I for one would prefer NOT to have to make any warranty claims on my car

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it UP!"

    "Drive it Hard" - that is nonsense bravado. I would say that a good break in is to stay on average below 4kRPM, but changing gears often and avoiding long stints at constant RPM. Also, w/ the engine FULLY hot, quick runs up progressively to 6k-7kRPM for a short moment (in 2nd, 3rd or 4th), meaning the amount of time above 4kRPM should be negligible, compared to the total time below it. I have always broken-in my engines that way, they always opened up and never gave me any trouble.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    I like to take care of my stuff so that it lasts. Going against what it recommended would be hard for me to do. To each his own though.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Like most of us, I have read numerous threads on this and other boards on this topic. As someone with a 997S currently making its way across the North Atlantic, who plans to pick it up in Kansas City and drive it to Jackson Hole in about three weeks, it is a topic in which I have a keen interest. Accordingly, I have had a conversation with the head mechanic at both the dealer I am buying my car from, and the one where my car will be, and my 996 was, serviced.

    Between them, these two mechanics have nearly 50 years servicing porsches. Each had the same view on break-in; that the engine is actually fundamentally broken in at the factory. In particular, the critical task of seating the rings is accomplished in that process. If true (and there is no reason to think that such information provided independently by two different senior porsche mechanics is not true), this information would be consistent with other reports of factory break-in (and even redlining) of the engines,as well as the numerous assertions that running a new engine hard to seat the rings needs to be done upon the initial use of the engine.

    I would also note, that the language in the manual does not condition the honoring by prosche of the warranty upon adherence to the "suggested" break-in procedure in the manual. Rather, it is only a suggestion. One would think that if failure to adhere to that procedure resulted in a statistically significant increase in warranty claims, that the warranty would be expressly conditioned upon adherence to the suggested break-in procedure.

    Finally, both of these mechanics did note that it was advisable to vary RPM frequently (but that this could be accomplished by changing gears while keeping speed relatively constant), and that other moving parts besides those inside the engine needed several hundred miles to break, or wear, in properly. Therefore, they would not push the car too hard ight away. The foregoing information is offered withour warranty, and is worth what you paid for it.

    The fundamental question

    Why would Porsche include break-in instructions in the manual if they did not think there was value in following them? Nobody has answered this question on any forum in any way that makes sense.

    "Porsche is being overly cautious" Well if that saves problems later (maybe in warranty, maybe out of warranty) then I'm all for adhering to the "recommendation" if it saves me days off the road and/or money.

    "It's already broken in at the factory" Then why doesn't the instruction book say "It's broken in already, go rev the hell out of it"?

    My feeling is that Porsche is being weak by NOT confirming that the break-in period is critical. Check with Mitsubishi on the Evo or Subaru on the WRX STi.

    In the end it's your car and your money. If you can't wait for 2000 miles to pass at less than 4000 rpm then don't complain later if the engine needs work on it, or if it starts to use excessive oil. It doesn't seem THAT great a price to pay to be blameless should something go wrong...Quoting some tech telling you "drive like you stole it" may not be your best defense unless you can pursuade them to put it in writing on official Porsche paper.

    Re: The fundamental question

    i m 100% with LeChef on this, the hard truth is that when you "sit" on your new Porsche....you are on your own.-period.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it UP!"

    Quote:
    MMD said:the owner's manual recommendations are the best way for Porsche serve it's own interests.


    How exactly does a normal break-in serve Porsche's interests? By having fewer warranty claims?
    Well, doesn't that ring a bell?:)

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    I'd only believe a mechanic with 50 years of experience IF he was actually working at the Porsche engine developement team. 50 years? He started on carburated engines for crying out loud. That's like taking advice from a typewriter repairman on how to use your laptop.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    This is getting to be a tedious discussion.

    In one corner we have folks (including me) who believe that the *engine* is broken in at the factory.

    In the other corner we have folks (including many religious zealots) who argue that if it's in the manual there must be a reason, and that reason is that the engine is NOT broken in.

    To these latter folks I would say : okay, if you don't agree with us, that's your prerogative. But remember that your opinion is worth no more (and, okay, no less than anyone elses. So if someone disagrees with you, don't try to take some moral high ground here.

    Finally, you may ask why it's in the manual - Porsche may very well not want someone driving like the clappers until they have spent a few days of driving time in the car, and gotten used to how it handles. Remember the old adage about driving fast : any fool can drive a car fast, but it takes skill to stop safely.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Texas911,

    That was two mechanics with 50 years total experience between them, not one mechanic with 50 years experience. In addition, it seems reasonable to conclude that in order to retain a job as the head mechanic at a porsche dealer, one has to undergo continuing education and training as determined by porsche. So, even if one started on a typewriter, one would have to learn how to service the laptop. Moreoever, it also seems reasonable to conclude that such training and education would include information about what is done to the engine at the factory. Finally, when two such sources independently providde identical information about what is done to the engine at the factory, such information gains a certain amount of credibility.

    I think it may be important to distinguish between engine break-in, on the one hand, and breaking in the rest of the car on the other hand. Logic dictates that it is unlikely that all parts of the car break in at the same pace. The writer of the manual is left with the job of communicating a simple broad brush rule that does not confuse people by being too granular. And again, if not adheeing to a specific break-in regime for the engine led to too many warranty claims, one would think that porsche would make adherence to such break-in regime a condition of honoring the warranty. They are at least that smart.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Quote:
    bgarrett said:
    I think it may be important to distinguish between engine break-in, on the one hand, and breaking in the rest of the car on the other hand. Logic dictates that it is unlikely that all parts of the car break in at the same pace. The writer of the manual is left with the job of communicating a simple broad brush rule that does not confuse people by being too granular. And again, if not adheeing to a specific break-in regime for the engine led to too many warranty claims, one would think that porsche would make adherence to such break-in regime a condition of honoring the warranty. They are at least that smart.



    There we go, finally, somewhere logical!
    I was waiting to see of anyone would write that.
    It's been written many many many times on the forum before by the admin, the mods, and knowledgeable members.
    Yes,
    The engine is run in in the engine room at full rpm, but
    no,
    It is not in the car, the engine is alone.
    Yes, when technician exit Porschestrasse in Zuffenhausen for the test drive, they go for BUT no more than a few kilometers.
    On a brand new car, the engine is run in but nothing else is.
    As a result, it is not recommended to thrash the car as Porsche states in the first few thousand kilometers.That doesn't mean drive it like a pussycar either
    Simple physics really, when alone, engine can run at 100%, when pulling over 1,200 kgs of Carrera with it, it's another story and parts will badly wear, engine parts but also chassis suspension, etc.
    And of course, not to mention, the Brake pads, the brakes themselves and the tyres, elements which are actually the most important in the running period.

    At the end of the day, I do not know the level of wear you inflict on the car or the difference at say 10,000 km between a properly run in car and one that's not, but to each his own.

    The owner has bought the car, he does whatever he wants it.
    I know what I'm doing!

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:the owner's manual recommendations are the best way for Porsche serve it's own interests.


    How exactly does a normal break-in serve Porsche's interests? By having fewer warranty claims?
    Well, doesn't that ring a bell?:)




    I don't think they care if the car is dynoed and the HP is less than claimed. A properly broken in engine, and one that is driven briskly thereafter, should have the HP as advertised.

    The proof would be dynoing two cars, one "babied" at break-in and after and one driven spiritedly all the time. I bet, but I'm no expert, the HP an torque output will differ by a significant amount.

    It's obvious that driving a car conservatively will statistically result in fewer warrenty claims.

    All of this is silly anyway because most of guys won't ever notice that their "babied" cars are putting out only 330 of the 355 HP as rated.

    I guess the original point was this: just drive the car a few notches harder than recommendatiuons in the manual and you'll be fine. I personally won't routinely exceeed the RPM recommendations for breakin; but on occasions when showing off the car to friends in the passenger seat: rev limiter might come in handy.




    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Quote:
    Leong said:
    I for one would prefer NOT to have to make any warranty claims on my car



    It's a double-edged sword. If you stress the car early, the weak stuff will fail during the warrenty period. If not, the stuff can fail when warrenty expires.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Why is it that you call the people that don't agree with you religious zealots? Call yourself that to if you want to be fair. Your just a guilty as you claim us "zealots" to be.

    Its your car do as you wish. There.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Why is it that you call the people that don't agree with you religious zealots? Call yourself that to if you want to be fair. Your just a guilty as you claim us "zealots" to be.

    Its your car do as you wish. There.



    I didn't make that comment but I think this is a funny remark which points to the fallacy:

    We should all "celebrate the differences" of like-minded people.

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Why is it that you call the people that don't agree with you religious zealots? Call yourself that to if you want to be fair. Your just a guilty as you claim us "zealots" to be.

    Its your car do as you wish. There.



    I said "including religious zealots" - so not all are zealots ! Yes, there are zealots on the other side too - I confess I may be a zealot too

    In a nutshell, we each have our opinions. As I mentioned before, I think the *engine* is broken in. The driver isn't, and of course the rest of the car isn't. Other folks may believe the engine isn't broken in either. To each our own.

    All I meant to convey was that these opinions can be deeply held; we're unlikely to change each other's minds.

    And hey, you can have a hell of a lot of fun under 4200 rpm ! It's a fantastic car either way

    Re: Interesting Discussion About Break-In Period. "Burn it U

    Quote:
    Dubliner said:

    All I meant to convey was that these opinions can be deeply held; we're unlikely to change each other's minds.




    So true for us over 40. We gotta recharge our brains with more of the excitement of learning and openness to new ideas we had way back in our college years.



     
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