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    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Is this how the US government built the country, is this how it has helped "private industry to grow and thrive”.-

    It's Easier to Start a Business in Rwanda Than in the U.S. | Inc.com

    U.S. Falls In Best Countries For Business Ranking - Forbes.com

    By driving out existing business/jobs overseas & making it harder for new domestic companies to incorporate in America??

    Guess we're going to hear all about the New Deal (failure) now & the G.I. bill, see pictures of big government construction projects (built w/ tax payer money) etc etc...

    If people put enough pressure on Govt to STOP WASTING ALL OUR MONEY, maybe they would have enough left over to build the things they are empowered to build.. Car, solar companies SHOULD NOT be one of them...

     


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Stradale this is a complicated subject but here is the most succinct answer as to what Govt.'s role is and has been, PART 2 would be about how govt. has become a negative force because people have changed.

     

    Answer - Govt.s role

     

     

    racerx:

    An oldie but a goody;

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/451346/So_whos_voting_Obama/index.html?postListCfg=categorytreesort%3Dpath%26regiontreealle...

     

     

    racerx:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    Leawood911 said:
    Quote:
    racerx said:
    ***The govt. has a duty to protect american jobs, industries, and standard of living.***

     


    Strongly disagree - certainly not in the constitution. (surprised no other conservative here caught this gem - certainly a better topic than abortion.)
     


    Exactly. We, the people, have the right to PURSUE happiness, but NOT NECESSARILY to ATTAIN happiness. It's the struggle to pursue with no guarantee of success that makes western civilization superior. If our government becomes one big daddy, then that's the end.
     


    Exactly WRONG.

    You 2 are certainly good at some things, but current affairs and US history are not your strong suits!

    Read a little before you try to act smart.

    One of the major roles of the Federal Govt. from inception till now has been to protect american business interests. The US Navy was formed to protect business interest, namely merchant ships from the barbary pirates.





    "Without armed ships or the protection of Great Britain, North African pirates frequently victimized American merchant vessels in the Mediterranean Sea during this time. In order to safely explore new markets in which to conduct trade, Congress reestablished a national navy authorizing the construction of six new vessels on March 27, 1794"



    PROTECTIONISM - what made america great



    $$$$$$$ The Tariff Act of 1789 imposed the first national source of revenue for the newly formed United States. The new Constitution allowed only the federal government to levy tariffs $$$$$$$$

    In his Report on Manufactures, Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton proposed a far-reaching scheme to use protective tariffs as a lever for rapid industrialization.

    The high protectionism Hamilton called for was not adopted until after the War of 1812 when nationalists like Henry Clay and John C. Calhoun wanted more industry so the nation would have a balanced economy.

    Once industrialization started, the demand for higher and higher tariffs came from manufacturers and factory workers. They believed that Americans should be protected from the low wages of Europe. Every Congressman was eager to logroll a higher rate for his local industry. Senator Daniel Webster, formerly a spokesperson for Boston's merchants who imported goods (and wanted low tariffs), switched dramatically to represent the manufacturing interests in the Tariff of 1824. Rates were especially high for bolts of cloth and for bar iron, of which Britain was a low-cost producer. The culmination came in the Tariff of 1828.

    Henry Clay and his Whig Party, envisioning a rapid modernization based on highly productive factories, sought a high tariff. Their key argument was that startup factories, or "infant industries," would at first be less efficient than European (British) producers. Furthermore, American factory workers would be paid higher wages than their European competitors. The arguments proved highly persuasive in industrial districts. Clay's position was adopted in the 1828 and 1832 Tariff Acts.

    After the Civil war, high tariffs remained. Advocates insisted that tariffs brought prosperity to the nation as a whole and no one was really injured. As industrialization proceeded apace throughout the Northeast, some Democrats, especially Pennsylvanians, became high tariff advocates. The Republican high tariff advocates appealed to farmers with the theme that high-wage factory workers would pay premium prices for foodstuffs. This was the "home market" idea, and it won over most farmers in the Northeast.



    I could go on and on and on, but I think you get the point. THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON PROTECTIONISM. It's how our industries were built up, how we became wealthy. THE FOUNDERS AND ALL SUCCEEDING LEADERS FOLLOWED THE SAME PHILOSOPHY. Protect american industry, jobs, and standard of living by protectionism using TARRIFFS, quota's, and sanctions.

    Only the new republicans starting with reagan then the bush losers started brainwashing people into thinking we can compete with everyone blah blah blah BS. Thats when our national debt went sky high and we became a debter nation living on credit and spending money we don't have.

    Since this new republicanism our wealth is going down the drain, a house of cards sold as a service economy and getting reamed with every new trade pact.

    Even today the govt. pays huge subsidies to certain industries, farmers, and has quota's. So do most foreign govt.s It's economic war out there all the time.

    Get a Clue about your own countries history would ya!

    You 2 are educated, presumably wealthy, and perhaps influential members of your communities, yet you have no idea how the US became a prosperous industrial powerhouse.

    This is precisely why we get aholes in office running this country into the ground and watching 200 years of govt. policy designed to create INDUSTRY and WEALTH go up in smoke.


     

     

     

     

    PLUS all the building and jobs programs of the depression + the massive industrialization of the war effort for WW2 + the national hiway system and airport construction of the 1950's + GI BILL


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    STRADALE:

    Guess we're going to hear all about the New Deal (failure) now & the G.I. bill, see pictures of big government construction projects (built w/ tax payer money) etc etc...

    If people put enough pressure on Govt to STOP WASTING ALL OUR MONEY, maybe they would have enough left over to build the things they are empowered to build.. Car, solar companies SHOULD NOT be one of them...

     

     

     

     

    Rennteam is SO BUGGY  and slow lately Stradale had time to search and amend his post above faster than I could find my own old post;

     

    hear you go

     

     

    racerx:
    racerx:

    Clinton doubled tax revenue under tax increases and that had nothing to do with the tax rate either.

    Good Jobs create wealth not tax policy.

     

    The 1950's were unprecedented prosperity spread across more americans than ever before and then it continued into the 1960's it ended with the oil crisis of 1973 and watergate and vietnam loss.

    It was created by a Govt. investment called the GI BILL

    ANYONE SAYING DIFFERENT DOESN'T KNOW SHIT

    .

    .

    3 of the countries most respected historians AGREE, but you guys know betterSmiley

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec00/gibill_7-4.html

    STEPHEN AMBROSE: Listen, that GI Bill was the best piece of legislation ever passed by the U.S. Congress, and it made modern America. The educational establishment boomed and then boomed and them boomed. The suburbs, starting with Levittown and others, were paid by GIs borrowing on their GI Bill at a very low interest rate. Thousands and thousands of small businesses were started in this country and are still there thanks to the loans from the GI Bill. It transformed our country.

    DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: Oh, no question. I agree with everything Steve said, including the passion with which he said it. I think few laws have had so much effect on so many people. It meant that blue collar workers, a whole generation of blue collar workers were enabled to go to college, become doctors, lawyers, and engineers, and that their children would grow up in a middle class family. It meant, as Stephen said, that people had homes, instead of being renters in the city, so that they could bring up their children in a home that they had owned.

     HAYNES JOHNSON: That's just the college part. I mean, as Steve was saying about the suburbs, there were 13 million homes built in the 50's, 11 million outside of there with GI loans. I mean, it just - it did transform the country.

     

     

     

    I could paste a huge thread on it, from all the new products to new cars to jobs and factories but only a numbskull would say otherwise. (1 caveat- blacks were still living as 2nd class citizens)

     

    I lived in the 60's and know and my  father and his friends benefitted from the GI bill and they had the start of great times in the 50's. all started with govt. investment NASA anyone? sputnik, TV, consumerism.........................


     

     


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    You want to see an example of where Govt. has done good (and bad) is Agriculture. Supporting farmers in tough times and the space program GPS Systems run the big tractors today to make everything efficient. (Ethanol is stupid though)

    I love these farm video's

    GPS steering the tractor (the farmer is demonstrating the tech that runs all the big tractors)

     

    modern farming, big business, has thrived thru govt. help over the years, now best in the world

     


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    It's hard to make out who's saying what in the above  but was that you who insinuated that you don't think Americans can "compete" with others?? It's not that we cannot compete, it's the fact our govt has made it harder for US companies to start a new company and operate in America vs other countries... It's no great mystery why companies construct factories overseas, just listen to the CEO's....For a microcosm of this process of passing suffocating regulations, taxes first then analyze the impact/fallout later ; look at California... I closed shop in Van Nuys because it just didn't make financial sense to stay there, regulations continue to drive out business out.. The Fed govt has followed suit, enacting 40,000 new regulations every year & counting  ..The Fed govt has made doing business in America much, much tougher and that has hurt our economy in a massive way.... I mean it's easier to start a business in Rwanda then the US..

    With the amount of companies/jobs lost overseas & the drop in the US's ranking in business friendly atmosphere, do you still feel (as you said just above) that the Fed has done a good job doing this:

    racerx: "Federal Govt. from inception till now has been to protect american business interest"

    Look at the deals our Fed govt has made... Look at the people the Fed Govt sent /used to make those deals... Politicians whom have never run anything/companies in their lives making trade/business deals.....

    The Fed govt's role is to create a business friendly environment (regs/laws/taxes/) that enable private industry to innovate, create, BUILD, succeed.  But that's not the same as saying the Govt "BUILT" America....

    Would you give the Federal Government an excellent grade in your own description/quote above?  If you do, you're probably in the .001% that feels that way.

    Our free market is the best method imo of picking winners & losers. The Fed Govt has a role establishing & enforcing laws that protect people, their intellectual property & their investments but other than that there's no good reason why the Fed govt should be picking winners & losers when it comes to sports cars, ESPECIALLY not start ups...

    But this is a Tesla thread so I'm gonna shut-up.


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    racerx:

     PART 2 would be about how govt. has become a negative force because people have changed.

    STRADALE:

     

    With the amount of companies/jobs lost overseas & the drop in the US's ranking in business friendly atmosphere, do you still feel (as you said just above) that the Fed has done a good job doing this:

    racerx: "Federal Govt. from inception till now has been to protect american business interest"

    Look at the deals our Fed govt has made... Look at the people the Fed Govt sent /used to make those deals... Politicians whom have never run anything/companies in their lives making trade/business deals.....

     

    No like I said in my first answer, people have changed everywhere for the worse especially in Govt. That's why I am supporting Mittens, a business guy and a moral guy, who has all the money he needs, and will change the whole way govt. works.

     

     

    Tesla help, good, process, good, Solyndra, bad. Just a dumb guy running the program. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    racerx:
     

    No like I said in my first answer, people have changed everywhere for the worse especially in Govt.

    I take strong exception to this analysis.  People, in general, haven't changed at all for thousands of years.  What has changed, IMHO, is our expectations for ourselves and others.


    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Tesla is making cars with dirty money.

    From the workers exploited in its batteries lithium mines to the american taxpayers forced to forfeit hours of their labor via taxes to subsidize it.

    The vehicle may have technical merit, but it does have large moral stains on its brand, managment and key investors. Its not cool, its just evidence of theft and corruption on wheels.


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Dear Abby,


    My husband has a long record of money problems. He runs up huge credit-card
    bills and at the end of the month, if I try to pay them off, he shouts at
    me, saying I am stealing his money. He says pay the minimum and let our
    kids worry about the rest, but already we can hardly keep up with the
    interest. Also he has been so arrogant and abusive toward our neighbors that
    most of them no longer speak to us. The few that do are an odd bunch, to
    whom he has been giving a lot of expensive gifts, running up our bills even
    more. Also, he has gotten religious. One week he hangs out with Catholics
    and the next with people who say the Pope is the Anti-Christ, and the next
    he's with Muslims.. Finally, the last straw. He's demanding that before
    anyone can be in the same room with him, they must sign a loyalty oath. It's
    just so horribly creepy! Can you help?

    Signed,

    Lost

    Dear Lost,

    Stop whining, Michelle. You're getting to live in the White House for free,
    travel the world, and have others pay for everything for you.
    You can divorce the jerk any time you want. The rest of us are stuck with
    the idiot for at least another year!

    Signed,

    Abby


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Back to the topic mates..

    Who cares with what money Tesla is building these cars. Who cares that electric cars don't really solve our problems (yet) since we generate electricity burning fossil fuels. Who cares if this project was government funded.

    Fact is, this is a very exciting American venture. I am not saying this Model S or the Model X is to become  the Ford Model T here. Heck, i'm not even a EV guy at all. Still I find this venture very exciting and a positive shimmer of light in the otherwise very negative environment surrounding both North America and the Eurozone. Besides, I still aspire to be able to think that we live in a world in which hard work and innovation is rewarded - hence for Tesla to survive and thrive. It is a very VERY risky time to start an all EV car company with so many costs and R&D involved.. but someone's got to do it! If not the private guy with a passion & vision, then who? Besides, it is a fact that in not starting to innovate nothing will change and we will still drive fuel burning cars in 2020.. most likely a 0.9L VW Lupo (Fox) or something in this size. And what about the Hybrids? Well they are total and utter crap!! Pure manipulation of the public.. A VW diesel gets better milage than the hippy yuppy Pruis. So that's a dead end. What Porsche is doing with the hybrid stuff is cool.. I like their performance direction because really at the end of the day it just isn't a solution to anything.

    As a final reminder to the critics, the GM CEO has admitted that the Tesla venture put pressure on him to get the Volt on the road. I drove one at the IAA in Frankfurt (Opel Ampera) and it certainly is a cool innovative car. Don't forget that the general public may not be ready to jump on the EV boat just yet, there are still numerous private and public bodies that would kill to drive an EV just because of what innovation and support that it'll bring to the industry. I personally would have no problem whatsoever in driving an EV to work.. same short distance to work each and every day. Why not? Then recharge it overnight when power is 'freely' available from the grid since usage is down. The entire EV development would force an upgrade to our national power grid, which in itself would be very advantageous..

    For any of you who shared some info on stocks, I am dying to play with my first stock (TSLA) but have no idea where/how to start. Don't worry it would be a small sum, totally irrelevant to my liquid assets so as to not hurt me financially. I like the idea behind it and I am fascinated by the whole development of Tesla!


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Revenge of the electric car
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1XA6l19Mk

    Elon Musk on the historical precedent influencing Tesla's skeptics
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec0CQ2wQZTM

     

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Atzporsche:

    Back to the topic mates..

    Who cares with what money Tesla is building these cars. Who cares that electric cars don't really solve our problems (yet) since we generate electricity burning fossil fuels. Who cares if this project was government funded.

    Fact is, this is a very exciting American venture. I am not saying this Model S or the Model X is to become  the Ford Model T here. Heck, i'm not even a EV guy at all. Still I find this venture very exciting and a positive shimmer of light in the otherwise very negative environment surrounding both North America and the Eurozone. Besides, I still aspire to be able to think that we live in a world in which hard work and innovation is rewarded - hence for Tesla to survive and thrive. It is a very VERY risky time to start an all EV car company with so many costs and R&D involved.. but someone's got to do it! If not the private guy with a passion & vision, then who? Besides, it is a fact that in not starting to innovate nothing will change and we will still drive fuel burning cars in 2020.. most likely a 0.9L VW Lupo (Fox) or something in this size. And what about the Hybrids? Well they are total and utter crap!! Pure manipulation of the public.. A VW diesel gets better milage than the hippy yuppy Pruis. So that's a dead end. What Porsche is doing with the hybrid stuff is cool.. I like their performance direction because really at the end of the day it just isn't a solution to anything.

    As a final reminder to the critics, the GM CEO has admitted that the Tesla venture put pressure on him to get the Volt on the road. I drove one at the IAA in Frankfurt (Opel Ampera) and it certainly is a cool innovative car. Don't forget that the general public may not be ready to jump on the EV boat just yet, there are still numerous private and public bodies that would kill to drive an EV just because of what innovation and support that it'll bring to the industry. I personally would have no problem whatsoever in driving an EV to work.. same short distance to work each and every day. Why not? Then recharge it overnight when power is 'freely' available from the grid since usage is down. The entire EV development would force an upgrade to our national power grid, which in itself would be very advantageous..

    For any of you who shared some info on stocks, I am dying to play with my first stock (TSLA) but have no idea where/how to start. Don't worry it would be a small sum, totally irrelevant to my liquid assets so as to not hurt me financially. I like the idea behind it and I am fascinated by the whole development of Tesla!

    Seems to be a lot more enthusiasm than logic in a lot of what you wrote in that post.  Smiley  Did you start hitting the Düsseldorfer Altbier early and hard today?  Smiley

    If you really want to dabble on the stock market in Germany, one way of doing it would be to open an online stock depot with your bank. Preferably one where you do not make use of any investment advice or assistance from a bank adviser. The trading fees are lower if you just make all your mistakes yourself instead of paying someone else to make them for you. Smiley  You may have a slightly hard time at your age convincing the service provider that you really know what you are entering into, and can bear losing your shirt if things go wrong. You effectively have to confirm in writing that you are not risk-averse and fully aware that trading stocks can result in making losses, not just profits. Be prepared to put on a convincing face when the question arises. Smiley

    The trading fees vary with the amount invested per deal and the exchange used to execute the deal. As an example, buying stocks in a German company for €2000 might result in a total trading fee of about €20. Foreign stocks cost a little more. The same fees arise again when you sell. 

    One of the first things you need to learn is that you make your profit when you buy a stock, not when you sell it. That is, be wary of buying stocks whose price others have already chased up to unsustainable levels. Probably one of the biggest errors beginners make. 

    If you want to open a dummy depot (portfolio) first to study how the market works, I found this site to be quite good:   www.finanzen.net.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    As of today the solar panels on rooftops have a rating of 15% energy conversion, sun to electricity, and it takes a system that costs roughly $5,500.00 to generate enough power to recharge the batteries every night. But new breakthru's in the last 2 years have seen almost 45% energy conversion rates. It might be possible within 3 years or so to have $2,500 solar system on your roof that will power your electric car for the rest of your life.

    No electric bill or gasoline bill for your transportation needs. And 0 pollution.  (Our Porsche's will fall into the hobby expense) Now that will be a great future, addios OPEC and Exxon.


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Danke Fritz, I was indeed having a beer. No Ruhrpot beer, but a good and cold Gilde Ratskeller from Hannover wink

    Many thanks for your tips re. stocks. I will check with my local bank to see what is possible.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    I guess it's my day for saying "I TOLD YA SO"

     

     

    "After visiting Tesla headquarters and meeting with the management there, J.P. Morgan [JPM  37.39    0.03  (+0.08%)   ] is telling clients it can see Tesla developing a 400 mile range powertrain in the next 3-4 years.

    Analyst Himanshu Patel wrote, “…a 400-450-mile range capable vehicle may be the tipping point, in our view, where the range is so clearly overkill (for daily use) that Tesla’s addressable market is then truly expanded to fully encompass the affluent yet single-car household.” In other words, a Tesla model that gets 400 or more miles on one charge could be much more than a niche electric vehicle.

    An electric car that can go 400 miles on a charge won’t have huge sales if the price premium for the battery pack remains high relative to internal combustion gas-powered vehicles. J.P. Morgan’s Patel believes, “Tesla’s battery pack costs would probably fall prospectively about 25 percent in each of the next five years [i.e., to around $225/kWh in five years from today].” Patel adds the drop in costs could happen even sooner. He writes, “We suspect this timeframe may even prove conservative, as we have recently sensed that Tesla has already identified many of the technical changes that it plans to make to its current generation battery technology (i.e., that to be used in the S) to be able to create a 400-mile range capable vehicle.” http://www.cnbc.com/id/46101377


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Oh but of course... there's soooo much room for improvement in this field of technology. Like Musk described very well, his Tesla concept is the next big automotive revolution since the standard production line.. the whole drivetrain system is about to be changed. In terms of what is possible, there's much more efficiency and range to be gained if the money is spent. Tesla is spending it. To remind the critics.. Toyota and Daimler are buying it


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    If you've been following the story of the soon-to-be-revealed Tesla Model X, you're likely aware that the all-electric crossover is said to be quicker than a Porsche 911, offer more interior space than an Audi Q7 and come with all-wheel drive (at least as an option). Also, if the teaser image is any indication, it should be pretty svelte.

    What you might not know is that the feature likely to garner the most initial attention are its unique doors. Specifically, "falcon" doors. While we suspect front passengers will gain entrance to the vehicle in the traditional way, the rear portals will be decidedly different. CEO Elon Musk intimated as much when he recently tweeted, "The most interesting view of the Model X is really with the doors open."

    So, what are falcon doors? Having seen photos of the Model X, Theo O'Neill of Wunderlich Securities explains that they "lift up and fold – like the wing of a bird," pivoting from the top. Apparently, this will help the Model X achieve its "functionality of a minivan" mandate, allowing easy access to attend to child car seats and such.

    Though we can really only begin to decide whether this configuration is a stroke of genius or too clever by half after the official reveal on February 9 at 8:00PM, we suspect some of you might already be forming opinions. Feel free to share with the rest of the class in the comments.

    News Source: Mercury News via Tesla Motors Club

    Image Credit: USFWS Pacific

     


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    racerx:

    I guess it's my day for saying "I TOLD YA SO"

     

     

    "After visiting Tesla headquarters and meeting with the management there, J.P. Morgan [JPM  37.39    0.03  (+0.08%)   ] is telling clients it can see Tesla developing a 400 mile range powertrain in the next 3-4 years.

    Analyst Himanshu Patel wrote, “…a 400-450-mile range capable vehicle may be the tipping point, in our view, where the range is so clearly overkill (for daily use) that Tesla’s addressable market is then truly expanded to fully encompass the affluent yet single-car household.” In other words, a Tesla model that gets 400 or more miles on one charge could be much more than a niche electric vehicle.

    An electric car that can go 400 miles on a charge won’t have huge sales if the price premium for the battery pack remains high relative to internal combustion gas-powered vehicles. J.P. Morgan’s Patel believes, “Tesla’s battery pack costs would probably fall prospectively about 25 percent in each of the next five years [i.e., to around $225/kWh in five years from today].” Patel adds the drop in costs could happen even sooner. He writes, “We suspect this timeframe may even prove conservative, as we have recently sensed that Tesla has already identified many of the technical changes that it plans to make to its current generation battery technology (i.e., that to be used in the S) to be able to create a 400-mile range capable vehicle.” http://www.cnbc.com/id/46101377

    I would say if J.P. Morgan knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't loan Enron billions of dollars. 


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Enron was thanks to new republican de-regulation and greed, nothing more, nothing less.

     

    As to Tesla and electric cars, I don't need JP Morgan, I have said it for years now, Tesla will be a success and electric cars will take over transportation. As I mentioned above multiple companies in the last 2 years have developed solar panels that achieve 40%+ conversion efficiency in the lab. That rate, if mass-produced, gives solar parity with today's utility cost. @ 50% conversion,  energy for all lighting, heating, cooling, and transportation needs of the middle-middle class and above families will be free and unlimited. Killing the need for even domestic energy producers.

    A great day for all and the planet, (except those who currently earn a living in energy exploration and distribution).

     

     

    Gulf Oil CEO predicting oil demand will drop by 15% over next 7 years in the US, announcing Gulf entry into electricity distributionSmiley


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    racerx:

    ... energy for all lighting, heating, cooling, and transportation needs of the middle-middle class and above families will be free and unlimited. Killing the need for even domestic energy producers.

    You seem to have forgotten amortizing the capital expended over the useful service life and maintenance costs.  Free is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

    What will electricity cost per kWh in your scenario?  $0.00?

    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    W8MM:
    racerx:

    ... energy for all lighting, heating, cooling, and transportation needs of the middle-middle class and above families will be free and unlimited. Killing the need for even domestic energy producers.

    You seem to have forgotten amortizing the capital expended over the useful service life and maintenance costs.  Free is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

    What will electricity cost per kWh in your scenario?  $0.00?

    Not really when you look at the cost or what it's replacing, I'll admit to ball park figuring Taking the figure from above $5,500.00 for panels that today would power a car at 15% conversion rate. Replacing those same panels with 50% conversion panels that are mass-producable.

    Couple buys house when they are 30 years old. Live there for 30 years (could be 50, my parents had 50 in their house)

    $5500/30 or $5500/50 = $170 to $100 a year capital cost $10 to $15 a month to replace today's electric bill, gas/oil bill, and gasoline expense which was $4,000.00 + this year according to CNBC for the average household.

     

    Even at double the above calculation $30,00 month for all those costs replaced, I spend more than that for bottled drinking water now. From my reading there is very little maintenance or degradation with these systems SEE LINK BELOW

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20132963/Re_Alternative_Energy_thread/page1.html#p20132963

    I believe that story was about some seriously old GE panels that still worked well. Cost per KWh, what does a buggy whip cost? Gas stations will be a niche business for us collectors that drive noisy vehicles as a hobby.


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    0-60  4.4 sec

     


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Here it is from their website, a good photo! Those doors are seriously cool!!


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Great SHOT ^^ much nicer color than the 1 in the video. Tesla is just more impressive every month and Musk is not only running this but SpaceX which has an historic launch coming up.

    I like the sedan more though;


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    I like both, the sedan and the SUV.
    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Wait for their third Model R, the second gen Tesla Roadster broken heart


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    The doors don't make sense, I would not be able to open them in my garage, it's too low. So are many parking garages in Europe. They are barely higher than 2 meters. yes


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    Been hearing about this new study often today in the media regarding China & electric cars there. Relates to comments in an earlier thread on electric cars; about how electricity is generated in the US as well.  Even w/ pollution controls in the US, don't think electric cars are as clean as some may want us to think, not with how we currently get our electricity.  Think the more honest we are about it the better our chances of more clean electric power via Nukes, etc.   

    Electric Vehicles Pollute More than Gas-Powered, Study Says

    http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/297830/20120213/electric-vehicle-pollution-gas-car-more.htm

     

     


    Re: Telsa Model X (Faster than 911, roomier than Q7)

    STRADALE:

    Been hearing about this new study often today in the media regarding China & electric cars there. Relates to comments in an earlier thread on electric cars; about how electricity is generated in the US as well.  Even w/ pollution controls in the US, don't think electric cars are as clean as some may want us to think, not with how we currently get our electricity.  Think the more honest we are about it the better our chances of more clean electric power via Nukes, etc.   

    Pollution control has always had a very prominent (and dishonest) NIMBY component to it.

    Vehicle exhaust pollution is up front and personal to city center pedestrians and is quick to offend.  As long as the pollution gets exported from the city center to someplace in the hinterlands, most city types will be much happier even if the total pollution doesn't change or gets somewhat worse.  Just human nature at work.

    The same NIMBY reactions will keep nuclear power under suspicion for a long time to come.  Being honest doesn't matter even a little bit to emotional NIMBYites.

    That said, I'm an electric car fan because of the performance; they're a hoot to drive..  And their gadget appeal to me is quite strong.


    --

    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


     
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