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    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    andrea said:
    http://dailymotion.alice.it/video/x14ipu_essai-audi-r8

    what a sound!



    sound so good

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqikgSpGRYs

    another onboard video

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Sounds alright...kinda like a motorcycle?
    I still cant really fall in love with this car.
    Looks like two very beautiful cars patched together by a very ugly panel in the middle, resulting in a car that looks way too long.

    I really like Audi and the R8 specs are impressive- however, to me this car will never be a real alternative to a equally-priced P. In Denmark u can get a fully-specced 997S convertible for the same price.
    420 BHP or not. This is still "just" an Audi. It's not a P.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    great test.. and the french comments were very good.

    dr.phil, i dont agree for the "just" an audi thing. porsche also isnt what it used to be in this matter ,now that tey produce over 110000 car a year.
    one thing is for sure , the r8 will be much more exclusive than the 911, since it will be produced to only 5000 cars a year, and it doesnt look close to any other car in the audi range

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    great test.. and the french comments were very good.

    dr.phil, i dont agree for the "just" an audi thing. porsche also isnt what it used to be in this matter ,now that tey produce over 110000 car a year.
    one thing is for sure , the r8 will be much more exclusive than the 911, since it will be produced to only 5000 cars a year, and it doesnt look close to any other car in the audi range



    Dimitri, I wasnt talking about exclusivity in terms of numbers.
    I was referring to handling - particularly steering.

    And speaking of exclusivity thru numbers, Audi produces a lot more than 5000 cars a year just as Porsche produces a lot less than 110000 997s a year.
    So a fair comparison would be between the no of 911 turbos and no of R8s, since the R8 supposedly covers the 997TTs clientel.


    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    great test.. and the french comments were very good.

    dr.phil, i dont agree for the "just" an audi thing. porsche also isnt what it used to be in this matter ,now that tey produce over 110000 car a year.
    one thing is for sure , the r8 will be much more exclusive than the 911, since it will be produced to only 5000 cars a year, and it doesnt look close to any other car in the audi range



    Dimitri, I wasnt talking about exclusivity in terms of numbers.
    I was referring to handling - particularly steering.

    And speaking of exclusivity thru numbers, Audi produces a lot more than 5000 cars a year just as Porsche produces a lot less than 110000 997s a year.
    So a fair comparison would be between the no of 911 turbos and no of R8s, since the R8 supposedly covers the 997TTs clientel.





    Dr. Phil, the R8 is competition to the C4S. It costs roughly the same. Add the X51 to the C4S and the cost skyrockets. Regarding steering, they will improve it, sooner or later.

    And don't forget, Audi's full name used to be Auto Union Audi, so it's not like they're a stranger to racing - and seeing how many Le Mans wins Audi currently has, compared to Porsche...

    Seriously, my friend LOVED it when he drove it.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Completely agree about C4S X51 vs R8 comparison.

    Well said Crash!!

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    great test.. and the french comments were very good.

    dr.phil, i dont agree for the "just" an audi thing. porsche also isnt what it used to be in this matter ,now that tey produce over 110000 car a year.
    one thing is for sure , the r8 will be much more exclusive than the 911, since it will be produced to only 5000 cars a year, and it doesnt look close to any other car in the audi range



    Dimitri, I wasnt talking about exclusivity in terms of numbers.
    I was referring to handling - particularly steering.

    And speaking of exclusivity thru numbers, Audi produces a lot more than 5000 cars a year just as Porsche produces a lot less than 110000 997s a year.
    So a fair comparison would be between the no of 911 turbos and no of R8s, since the R8 supposedly covers the 997TTs clientel.




    agree , but do you think the 997tt looks different than the c4s? i dont think so , all the 911's looks the same plus or minus few milimeters wide or a spoiler or two.. no less than 30000 911's are produced , while only 5000 r8 are produced,and they look like no other car..

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Completely agree about C4S X51 vs R8 comparison.

    Well said Crash!!




    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Ok, words are one thing. How many have actually ordered an R8? And how many actually, seriously would, if they had to choose between a 911 and an R8?
    The exclusivity argument doesnt hold water IMO.
    No matter how you look at it, unless they only produced ONE, the Audi brand is a lot less sought after than that of Porsche.
    If the car had been a competitor to the Cayman - and priced that way- , I might have considered it a serious alternative to Porsche.
    But spending the kinda $ on an Audi that you would on a fully specced 997s Cab or similar? Thanks, but no thanks.

    When u dish out that kinda money for a car, you dont wanna explain yourself.
    "What kinda car u drive?"
    -ah, it's an Audi...
    " Oh, ok. Nice...so how's your family? Your wife still a lapdanser?"..
    -But, but, but..it's an R8!!

    I dunno. It's probably "the businessman's sportscar".
    "Drive it without wrinkling your Armani suit".
    But it reminds me of the Skoda Octavia RS: Sure, it might be good, but it's still a Skoda.
    I think Audi might be facing the Z-06 dilemma: Unless they make a car that beats the crap out of the competition at a substantially lower price, and keeps doing that, the established and "classic" sportscar makers will win that battle.
    Audi may be doing well in Le Mans and DTC, but they are still not a sporscar maker. They make quality upscale family cars.
    And now the family car company has built a real sporscar.
    You ask yourself this; Would u rather buy a sportscar from a (albeit huge) factory that primarily produces front engine sedans, or pay the same $ for a sportscar built by a company that has done nothing else for 50 years?

    They build 5000 to begin with. Not because they wanna be exclusive, but because they dont have a choice. I dont even think u can find 5000 affluent people who would rather get an R8 than a 911 or perhaps even Ferrari Dino.
    Only time will tell.

    The R8 might be an abslutely great car, but the brand is just not as exclusive or sought after as Porsche or Ferrari. It's that simple.
    You gotta include branding into the equasion.
    If not, we would all be driving a Ford Ka and wearing H&M rags: I.e. the choice would be a sensible/rational one.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Well, one can say that the 'Audi' R8 is really an 'Audi-Lamborghini' Gallardo wuth a smaller engine. Even the Gallardo will be upgraded wuth the new suspension from the R8.

    Mid-engined, alumunium spaceframe, I think the R8 is more Lamborghini than it is an Audi.

    Just like a Cayenne (same architecture as the Touareg) is more a VW than a true Porsche, no matter how many horsepower it has.

    Just my two cents. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, right. Peace.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Ok, words are one thing. How many have actually ordered an R8? And how many actually, seriously would, if they had to choose between a 911 and an R8?
    The exclusivity argument doesnt hold water IMO.
    No matter how you look at it, unless they only produced ONE, the Audi brand is a lot less sought after than that of Porsche.
    If the car had been a competitor to the Cayman - and priced that way- , I might have considered it a serious alternative to Porsche.
    But spending the kinda $ on an Audi that you would on a fully specced 997s Cab or similar? Thanks, but no thanks.

    When u dish out that kinda money for a car, you dont wanna explain yourself.
    "What kinda car u drive?"
    -ah, it's an Audi...
    " Oh, ok. Nice...so how's your family? Your wife still a lapdanser?"..
    -But, but, but..it's an R8!!

    I dunno. It's probably "the businessman's sportscar".
    "Drive it without wrinkling your Armani suit".
    But it reminds me of the Skoda Octavia RS: Sure, it might be good, but it's still a Skoda.
    I think Audi might be facing the Z-06 dilemma: Unless they make a car that beats the crap out of the competition at a substantially lower price, and keeps doing that, the established and "classic" sportscar makers will win that battle.
    Audi may be doing well in Le Mans and DTC, but they are still not a sporscar maker. They make quality upscale family cars.
    And now the family car company has built a real sporscar.
    You ask yourself this; Would u rather buy a sportscar from a (albeit huge) factory that primarily produces front engine sedans, or pay the same $ for a sportscar built by a company that has done nothing else for 50 years?

    They build 5000 to begin with. Not because they wanna be exclusive, but because they dont have a choice. I dont even think u can find 5000 affluent people who would rather get an R8 than a 911 or perhaps even Ferrari Dino.
    Only time will tell.

    The R8 might be an abslutely great car, but the brand is just not as exclusive or sought after as Porsche or Ferrari. It's that simple.
    You gotta include branding into the equasion.
    If not, we would all be driving a Ford Ka and wearing H&M rags: I.e. the choice would be a sensible/rational one.



    I think you can to a certain extent compare TT vs Boxster/Cayman and R8 vs 911...
    I know people who had TTs who moved to pcars. Not the other way.
    And the R8/911 price gap is very different than TT boxster.
    Therefore, I do not see many 911 owners going to R8.
    And if all you ever wanted since childhod was a 911, you are not going to get a R8 now

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:

    Just like a Cayenne (same architecture as the Touareg) is more a VW than a true Porsche, no matter how many horsepower it has.

    Just my two cents. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, right. Peace.



    You haven't driven a Cayenne turbo, have you?

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Well, one can say that the 'Audi' R8 is really an 'Audi-Lamborghini' Gallardo wuth a smaller engine. Even the Gallardo will be upgraded wuth the new suspension from the R8.

    Mid-engined, alumunium spaceframe, I think the R8 is more Lamborghini than it is an Audi.




    Well. If it is more a Lambo than an Audi, why put an Audi badge on it?
    I hear what u are saying, and u are right. Technically.
    But again - the mere fact that a new R8 owner has to "explain" that this car is actually almost a Lambo (a more attractive brand than Audi) is the very core of the problem.
    U dont hear Lambo-owners having to explain or excuse the fact that Lambo is in the Audi family.

    Like I said before: Audi may have built a great sportscar, and I am sure it technically is.
    However, I doubt very much that it will be able to compete against the "real" sportscar makers and their products once potential buyers have to make real- life decisions.

    It's the old Phaeton problem again.
    VW built what many claim is the best luxury car on the planet.
    Sadly the company name Volkswagon = "People's carriage/car" says anything but upscale luxury, and having spent a lifetime building a brand that promotes common sense and "think small", it's almost impossible to suddenly make people buy a product aimed at Mercedes S-class buyers.

    I dunno how international Phaeton sales are, but I have seen ONE Phaeton in Denmark since the introduction.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    No, but if I want a turbocharged Porsche, it would be a 911. If I only wanted mad horsepower or torque in my SUV, an Audi Q7 V12 Tdi (500 bhp, 1000 Nm) would do the job just as well as, if not better than, the Cayenne Turbo. Not to mention half the fuel consumption.

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    shin said:

    Just like a Cayenne (same architecture as the Touareg) is more a VW than a true Porsche, no matter how many horsepower it has.

    Just my two cents. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, right. Peace.



    You haven't driven a Cayenne turbo, have you?


    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Well, one can say that the 'Audi' R8 is really an 'Audi-Lamborghini' Gallardo wuth a smaller engine. Even the Gallardo will be upgraded wuth the new suspension from the R8.

    Mid-engined, alumunium spaceframe, I think the R8 is more Lamborghini than it is an Audi.




    Well. If it is more a Lambo than an Audi, why put an Audi badge on it?
    I hear what u are saying, and u are right. Technically.
    But again - the mere fact that a new R8 owner has to "explain" that this car is actually almost a Lambo (a more attractive brand than Audi) is the very core of the problem.
    U dont hear Lambo-owners having to explain or excuse the fact that Lambo is in the Audi family.

    Like I said before: Audi may have built a great sportscar, and I am sure it technically is.
    However, I doubt very much that it will be able to compete against the "real" sportscar makers and their products once potential buyers have to make real- life decisions.





    True, but only if one is concerned so much about the brand of their car. To me, for a performance car, the 'technicalities' (read : performance) is much more important than the 'brand' itself (read : image).

    I guess it goes back to the reason one gets a supercar in the first place : to talk about it in the pub/with the neighbors and explain the heritage the brand has, or to simply drive the hell out of it, let the badge covered in dirt and enjoy the experience.

    Just my two cents.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    However, I doubt very much that it will be able to compete against the "real" sportscar makers and their products once potential buyers have to make real- life decisions.





    True, but only if one is concerned so much about the brand of their car. To me, for a performance car, the 'technicalities' (read : performance) is much more important than the 'brand' itself (read : image).




    You're right in the sense that it would be silly to buy a car just for the brand even if the competition offers a better alternative at a similar price point. But in most cases a brand has build up it's reputation for some good reasons (in case of Porsche it's 50+ years experience in designing and building sportscars - an experience Audi doesn't have).

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    However, I doubt very much that it will be able to compete against the "real" sportscar makers and their products once potential buyers have to make real- life decisions.





    True, but only if one is concerned so much about the brand of their car. To me, for a performance car, the 'technicalities' (read : performance) is much more important than the 'brand' itself (read : image).




    You're right in the sense that it would be silly to buy a car just for the brand even if the competition offers a better alternative at a similar price point. But in most cases a brand has build up it's reputation for some good reasons (in case of Porsche it's 50+ years experience in designing and building sportscars - an experience Audi doesn't have).



    That's true. However, the way I look at it, Audi has acquired Lamborghini and the Gallardo certainly proves that the two are capable of building an amazing sports car. Add to that the inherent quality of contemporary Audis (my father's old 1991 Audi 100 is still driving around today and looks and feels like new) and you have a very potent competitor. Sure, brand image is not nearly as sporty as Porsche, but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think. Give them 5 to 10 years and the image could be completely different, even more so if the rumors we are hearing are true and Audi is really planning on switching its future models towards RWD.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Auto Union racing history, the Audi Quattro of the 1980s, and Le Mans. Enough heritage for me. Really, Audi's racing history is understated.

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    However, I doubt very much that it will be able to compete against the "real" sportscar makers and their products once potential buyers have to make real- life decisions.





    True, but only if one is concerned so much about the brand of their car. To me, for a performance car, the 'technicalities' (read : performance) is much more important than the 'brand' itself (read : image).




    You're right in the sense that it would be silly to buy a car just for the brand even if the competition offers a better alternative at a similar price point. But in most cases a brand has build up it's reputation for some good reasons (in case of Porsche it's 50+ years experience in designing and building sportscars - an experience Audi doesn't have).


    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    However, I doubt very much that it will be able to compete against the "real" sportscar makers and their products once potential buyers have to make real- life decisions.





    True, but only if one is concerned so much about the brand of their car. To me, for a performance car, the 'technicalities' (read : performance) is much more important than the 'brand' itself (read : image).




    You're right in the sense that it would be silly to buy a car just for the brand even if the competition offers a better alternative at a similar price point. But in most cases a brand has build up it's reputation for some good reasons (in case of Porsche it's 50+ years experience in designing and building sportscars - an experience Audi doesn't have).



    That's true. However, the way I look at it, Audi has acquired Lamborghini and the Gallardo certainly proves that the two are capable of building an amazing sports car. Add to that the inherent quality of contemporary Audis (my father's old 1991 Audi 100 is still driving around today and looks and feels like new) and you have a very potent competitor. Sure, brand image is not nearly as sporty as Porsche, but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think. Give them 5 to 10 years and the image could be completely different, even more so if the rumors we are hearing are true and Audi is really planning on switching its future models towards RWD.



    I second that. This year will see Audi with three sportscars lineup : TT, R8 and A5.
    People will see Audi like they've never seen before.

    As for the RWD rumor, I believe Audi will stick with Quattro, with an RWD bias. Even Ferrari is going the AWD route now.

    The Murcielago's successor (the second Audi-Lamborghini) will be amazing. Alumunium spaceframe, direct injection, latest Quattro technology...

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    No, but if I want a turbocharged Porsche, it would be a 911. If I only wanted mad horsepower or torque in my SUV, an Audi Q7 V12 Tdi (500 bhp, 1000 Nm) would do the job just as well as, if not better than, the Cayenne Turbo. Not to mention half the fuel consumption.





    No diesel cars in NY and CA...
    So my Q7 is a lowly 350HP gas one

    My point though was after driving a Cayenne turbo, you'll forget all about the VW parts.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    No, but if I want a turbocharged Porsche, it would be a 911. If I only wanted mad horsepower or torque in my SUV, an Audi Q7 V12 Tdi (500 bhp, 1000 Nm) would do the job just as well as, if not better than, the Cayenne Turbo. Not to mention half the fuel consumption.





    No diesel cars in NY and CA...
    So my Q7 is a lowly 350HP gas one

    My point though was after driving a Cayenne turbo, you'll forget all about the VW parts.



    Point taken. And I'm sure when you drive an R8, you'll forget all about the four-ring badge..

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    As for the RWD rumor, I believe Audi will stick with Quattro, with an RWD bias. Even Ferrari is going the AWD route now.

    The Murcielago's successor (the second Audi-Lamborghini) will be amazing. Alumunium spaceframe, direct injection, latest Quattro technology...



    Yes, that's what I meant. Base cars on RWD, as opposed to FWD, with the option of having Quattro as always.

    The Murci's successor, lighter and with an engine at least as powerful, will truly be a winner.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...



    Bingo.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...



    ?? You do know where the name 'R8' comes from, don't you?

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    ?? You do know where the name 'R8' comes from, don't you?



    "R8ders of the Lost ark?"

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...



    ?? You do know where the name 'R8' comes from, don't you?



    Wherever it comes from, it IS a stretch !!! :

    Do you know where the name of 'Clio Williams' came from?

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    So true

    I think even BMW (that has a reputation for making 'sporty' sedans) realised long ago that it had to differentiate its highest performance cars (the M cars) from the rest of its line up by saying they were developed by its 'Motorsport' division. Audi has made a bad mistake by not doing the same with the R8. Even the 'S' and 'RS' versions are only just different enough (as an overall package) from the regular 'A' cars. You have to look under the bonnet to realise how much more powerful an RS version is. That simply doesn't have the wow factor in my eyes.

    Re: VW Phaeton, it is a flawed branding concept brilliantly executed. The idea of a luxury rival to a Merc S Class made by an 'everyman' manufacturer (such as VW) was doomed to fail from the start. People are simply too snobbish to buy a class-leading sedan made by VW (that also makes the Lupo and Polo).

    Here in the UK, I see Phaetons from time to time (usually company directors driven by a chauffeur) and I have seen on TV programmes regarding used cars, experts recommending a VW Phaeton as being an amazing used car to buy second hand because they depreciate in value like a rock sinks in water but are immaculately built and will last for ever and ever.

    Indeed if you can get hold of a VW Phaeton W12, it's like getting a Bentley without the outside skin and all the snob factor of a Bentley.

    In a way, that may be a good thing since the Bentley Continental GT's name is mud here in the UK. It's dismissed as a 'premiership footballer's car'. Enough said

    The final nail in the Bentley Continental GT coffin is that every time you switch on your satellite dish, those useless free music channels that no one watches (except you when you're channel hopping) all show gangster rappers with diamond teeth getting into their bespoke Mulliner Bentley Continental GTs. As if J Lo wasn't the kiss of death already (with the outrageous stories of his and hers Bentleys for herself and Bennifer when they were still together), these tattoo'ed guys have killed off the prestige factor of Bentley Continental GTs (just like Burberry before it). Only the 'chavs' here in the UK wear Burberry anymore.

     
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