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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
     

    The point people try to make with all those CO2 output comparisons is simple: EVs are not the holy grail of transportation and they don't really protect the environment.

    Or in even simpler words: EVs are everything but environmentally friendly. Especially compared to modern Diesel cars with particulate filters and low NOx output.

    Many Americans (and Canadians) don't know but I was driving my wife's X3 35d (313 Diesel horses) at a speed of 240 kph on the Autobahn with a Diesel consumption of only 10 liters / 100 km. At lower speeds, I was able to get 7 liters / 100 km out of the engine. We had a C200d (I think) in Sardinia as a rental car and average consumption (mixed city/highway driving, not faster than 120 kph) was 5.7 liters / 100 km. Just saying...so much potential.

    it is not about holy grail or protecting better the environment. you also mix latest generation cars with very low consumption but still gas emission and EV, what is the point?

    the EV is all about crowded city centers and going to the towns. Silence and no smell is far more interesting than low diesel eaters. the world will not turn EV in 5 years but at least the bans of ICE cars in city centers will be a progress. go to Paris, it stinks...and that grey cloud is terrible.angry


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Just look at LA that even doesn’t have that many diesel car, that smog is scary... I could never live there.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    How about banning old cars, conventional trucks and buses from city centers? Nothing more needed in my opinion.

    In Paris, almost every second car I see is a crappy old one which probably doesn't even fulfill Euro 6.

    It would be so easy if politicians would use their brains more than their ideological bullshit. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC, trucks are not allowed in Paris and all buses are natural gas. They already started to ban old cars with the sticker corresponding to your emission and during worst smog it is additional segregation by pair or odd numbers plates even if you have the clean stickers. EV is needed in city centers. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    the-missile:

    RC, trucks are not allowed in Paris and all buses are natural gas. They already started to ban old cars with the sticker corresponding to your emission and during worst smog it is additional segregation by pair or odd numbers plates even if you have the clean stickers. EV is needed in city centers

    I was referring to those small semi-trucks for deliveries. If UPS, Fedex, DHL and others would use EV trucks, it would already make a change. Same goes to other delivery trucks.

    Last time in Paris, I felt more annoyed by smokers than traffic pollution. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    And they can start with old heating systems for homes/business' and buildings in the city, they contribute much more than traffic....but I guess it is not as popular...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I don’t think it is an issue in Paris.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

     

    using a fireplace is strictly prohibited in Paris.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    the-missile:

     

    using a fireplace is strictly prohibited in Paris.

    So is picking up after your dogSmiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    This is a vague rumor, but the next pack of the S and X could be 350lbs lighter while boasting a larger capacity and faster supercharging to match the 250kwh of the Model 3, and a new tri-motor. Can you just imagine what the lowered weight could do to the performance, range and handling? That could put the X within a shooting distance of 400 miles range and the S around 450 miles. At these levels, range anxiety start to vanish even for the more doubtful people.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You just don't get it do you?

    Range anxiety is not just about how far a 'tank' goes, it's about how fast and easy one can refill that 'tank'. And the second part is more important than the first part.

    And your tired argument about charging at home doesn't apply to most of the world's population, majority of which don't live in houses but in apartments, townhouses, with shared parkade or just street parking. There isn't charging on street parking unless one pull out and extension cord from inside the house. 

    Charging at work also isn't a valid argument either. Majority of offices with parking don't have individual charging plugs, and if a EV charging spot is available, it's a shared one that one is suppose to move the car when it's fully charged. Another hassle for someone at work to run out to the car and move it.

    But this charging problem isn't hard to solve, every EV owner just need to buy their own portable generator and use that to charge the car when parked. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    There goes my naughty comment: I see more and more around the globe (BTW which is not flat) crowds of people blindly believing in savior like figures (Musk being a more recent example). Then I read this: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/13/health/falling-iq-scores-study-intl/index.html Smiley

    To each it’s own I say. Blame those damn Norwegian researchers Smiley


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    You just don't get it do you?

    Range anxiety is not just about how far a 'tank' goes, it's about how fast and easy one can refill that 'tank'. And the second part is more important than the first part.

    And your tired argument about charging at home doesn't apply to most of the world's population, majority of which don't live in houses but in apartments, townhouses, with shared parkade or just street parking. There isn't charging on street parking unless one pull out and extension cord from inside the house. 

    Charging at work also isn't a valid argument either. Majority of offices with parking don't have individual charging plugs, and if a EV charging spot is available, it's a shared one that one is suppose to move the car when it's fully charged. Another hassle for someone at work to run out to the car and move it.

    But this charging problem isn't hard to solve, every EV owner just need to buy their own portable generator and use that to charge the car when parked. 

     

    Sorry but I disagree, people that have to park on a public street is a minority in developed countries today, and I will not even get into the work argument.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:

    You just don't get it do you?

    Range anxiety is not just about how far a 'tank' goes, it's about how fast and easy one can refill that 'tank'. And the second part is more important than the first part.

    And your tired argument about charging at home doesn't apply to most of the world's population, majority of which don't live in houses but in apartments, townhouses, with shared parkade or just street parking. There isn't charging on street parking unless one pull out and extension cord from inside the house. 

    Charging at work also isn't a valid argument either. Majority of offices with parking don't have individual charging plugs, and if a EV charging spot is available, it's a shared one that one is suppose to move the car when it's fully charged. Another hassle for someone at work to run out to the car and move it.

    But this charging problem isn't hard to solve, every EV owner just need to buy their own portable generator and use that to charge the car when parked. 

     

    Sorry but I disagree, people that have to park on a public street is a minority in developed countries today, and I will not even get into the work argument.

     

    FYI, developed countries includes more than the USA you know?

    Take Britain, London the city for example, most people living there have their cars parked outside.

    Or Hong Kong, most live in apartments with multi-storey parking and and most stalls don't have a electric plug.

    There are many many more examples.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    In Old Europe situation is even more complicated... How to upgrade the power grid of an really old city? You can’t just dig through historical sites and beneath old buildings to add more cables. And it’s not just the cables. Upgrading the power grid requires more transformers. Where to add them? Demolish a 600 years old house to add one? As Whoopsy said, US is not the entire world.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Pentium:

    ...

    As Whoopsy said, US is not the entire world.

     

    But did not Trump claim that exactly? SmileySmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If US is the entire world than the world is pretty flat indeed... Smiley


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Each Tesla should come with a picture and a PayPal account for a child in the Congo who works long hours and for little pay to mine the Cobalt used in each Tesla.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    JimFlat6:

    Each Tesla should come with a picture and a PayPal account for a child in the Congo who works long hours and for little pay to mine the Cobalt used in each Tesla.

    Tesla’s motto: Zero emission vehicles powered by child labor.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Actually VW batteries use much more cobalt than Teslas angry

    How low do some people here have to defend an untenable position? yes

    Just breathe slowly and take time to think.

    Whatever happens, Tesla and Musk have already won, here are some irrefutable FACTS:


    First they managed some deep pocketed investors to give them massive amounts of money to create a mass market EV automobile manufacturer, in America nonetheless. Right there many said it would not happen, but it did.
    Second they managed 10s then 100s of thousands of early adopters to buy their cars, even with all the flaws especially in the beginning.
    Third they managed to explain people they were beta testing self driving aids to pave the way for autonomous driving.
    Fourth they managed to force governments to accept EV was a better solution than other techs if going green was needed (which came about once the dieselgate set).
    Fifth they managed to become the #1 luxury sedans seller in the USA.
    Sixth they managed to create a fan base close to what Apple has and way beyond what any car company has done before.
    Seventh they managed to come ahead in many tests comparaisons in very reputable magazines.
    Last they managed to dent profits and scare other manufacturers, especially the Germans (and BWM in particular) by creating their own rule book on an amazing number of parts of the automotive industry (although they were not all homeruns).

    Even if Tesla gets restructured by a chapter 10 (we have explained many times here and smart people know Tesla will not go away anytime soon, because wipe the debt and they are viable), it will not matter. They already won.

    All they need is for one of their coming products to really take off to make te above risk go away (Model Y, semi, pick up truck). The Roaster will just be the cherry on the cake that has the potential to become the king of the hill of sport car daily drivers.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    chapter 11, restructuration of the debt and job done...but you will need to go to 0 on market share....


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    You mean market cap? Ie wipe shareholders? More or less, yes... I see that as worst case scenario.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla is now a love brand, they are not going to vanish.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    You mean market cap? Ie wipe shareholders? More or less, yes... I see that as worst case scenario.

    small shareholders will lose everything and a major one will get big chunk of the shares of the company in exchange of deleting a good portion of the debt.  it is clear that Tesla has a future, the only question is will they be able to stop the massive running cost, show some profit and get rid of the debt.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Meanwhile, the Etron and iPace get recalls...

    https://apple.news/ATLIj_nczTl2A5iHKVA6wZA 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:

    You just don't get it do you?

    Range anxiety is not just about how far a 'tank' goes, it's about how fast and easy one can refill that 'tank'. And the second part is more important than the first part.

    And your tired argument about charging at home doesn't apply to most of the world's population, majority of which don't live in houses but in apartments, townhouses, with shared parkade or just street parking. There isn't charging on street parking unless one pull out and extension cord from inside the house. 

    Charging at work also isn't a valid argument either. Majority of offices with parking don't have individual charging plugs, and if a EV charging spot is available, it's a shared one that one is suppose to move the car when it's fully charged. Another hassle for someone at work to run out to the car and move it.

    But this charging problem isn't hard to solve, every EV owner just need to buy their own portable generator and use that to charge the car when parked. 

     

    Sorry but I disagree, people that have to park on a public street is a minority in developed countries today, and I will not even get into the work argument.

     

    FYI, developed countries includes more than the USA you know?

    Take Britain, London the city for example, most people living there have their cars parked outside.

    Or Hong Kong, most live in apartments with multi-storey parking and and most stalls don't have a electric plug.

    There are many many more examples.

     

    London residential living is more like 3rd world standards.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Some longer term X battery usage update after 2,000 miles:

    - the wh usage display on the dash is understated by about 6% (there are many theories about this ranging from brake regen charging loss to not counting usage when idle and some phantom loss)

    - as such, to match the 295 EPA range, the display needs to indicate 310 wh/m usage (officially the car is rated 340 wh/m but calculations using real 98kwh usable capacity says the rating is 330 wh/m to get 295 miles range,Tesla reserves 4kwh not to brick the battery out of the 102kwh battery)

    - my displayed usage is 390wh/m after 2,400 miles (this includes a lot of daily commutes that are around 350wh/m when driving on autopilot mostly, and a lot of very heavy city traffic which kills the average), this reflect my normal no compromise driving style, flooring it for proper testing, driving up to 76mph when possible, radio, AC as needed, the RRS is getting 16mpg in the same conditions, the Cayenne TTS was 13mpg and the Macan turbo 20mpg

    - I have managed to get below 300wh/h on some long stretches (>20 miles) of highway when speed was in the 45-65mph range due to traffic, so I have no doubt you can get over 300 miles of real range in these exact circumstances

    - I have managed to get 330wh/m for my long daily commute that includes city, highway and suburban driving, as long as you don’t floor it and use autopilot, very close to the EPA rating of 310

    - if you start driving aggressively or above 70mph battery usage goes up a lot, driving like a proper sport car will literally kill the range which does not bode well for the Taycan if used in the way it is marketed as, people will see <100miles range fairly quickly, that’s probably why the Tesla roadster is designed to have a 200kwh battery

    - my confortable 10-90% average usage range is around 195 miles with these spring mild temperatures, from a 295 mikes EPA rating. For the ETron if you correct for the higher reserve built in and the same 10% cushion, you get 74kwh available and if you apply the 25% reduction due to my driving style vs EPA rating of the X (to be nice let’s only use 20%), you get 145 miles instead of the 195 with the X. I could not live with this low range since at times it would force me to top off the battery during the day which defeats the purpose of the EV saving you time. Plus in the winter, this number will be much lower on the coldest days, I should make it with the X but might need the extra 10%. And then for trips, I can charge the X to 100% and get an extra 20 miles

    - $ savings: on top of having service only every 2 years and less mechanical parts to replace and much longer life of the brakes, the higher resale value, for the 20,000 miles a year I drive, vs the RRS I will save $5,000 a year just in fuel since I do not pay for electric (I would save $3,200 if I paid for electric)

    - time saving: between the fast lanes and not having to go to the gas station, I will save 30 hours a year

    Conclusion on the battery usage part: I could not live with a car with less than 280 miles of EPA range, Tesla EPA numbers can be matched in real life on long stretches, real life usage will be significantly less than EPA ratings especially if driving sporty. No regrets on the extra 10% efficiency of the new X since it would not really change my pattern, only when combined with a 120+ kWh battery will it make a difference (ie two days of commuting possible vs one)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla will soon have a 400-mile electric car and you don't need it

    https://apple.news/AbZJD3io_Q4WdVvKLcexh5Q

    Tesla Model 3 and Model Y go fully vegan next year

    https://apple.news/AntrpOeVdTNa0as3-Ca-_2A

    https://apple.news/A9B8IoS2tQtmw3gjr0HC1mA


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    First look at Tesla's solar roof tile technology with custom fittings

    https://apple.news/AKj4FtBW2SVaazkG2mKX_tA

    Just look at the attention to details. Can’t wait to install this on my summer house, hopefully next year...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    wow that is the next level!


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


     
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