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    Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/113052958191/watch-the-mclaren-12c-spider-hit-346-kmh-video


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    This car damn fast! angel

    New Turbo will have a hard time to beat this (it won't...).


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    yup..


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Not just the acceleration and top speed, even in cornering too.

    Today is the first day I really open up the MP4-12C as warm weather has finally arrived. On one highway 270 degree off ramp that I frequent, normally in my Turbo and Turbo S, I will be doing around 80-85km/h on exit, it's about my max personal limit, the car I am sure can go faster. Today I took that exit in the MP4-12C, I figure I will take it easy the 1st time around, just too see how the car reacts, on entry and during the corner, I feels like I was slower than normal, but on exit the speedo reads 95km/h angel. It does not feels that fast inside the car, can't even feel the g-load either. I think the car has another 10-15km/h left if I really want to push it just to reach my personal limit. 

    This car is stupid fast, but then again I feel like this car will be the car that kills me if I am not careful as the limit is so absurdly high. 

     


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Can you say Game Over 991 Turbo S ? and this was the spider which should've been slower than the coupe angry

    It's kind of getting old with Porsche always keeping the top speed below 320 km/h when it comes to the turbo, maybe it will do 320km/h but people would like to see official figures of nothing less than 325km/h+ for the turbo now that they've raised the price to 200k euro  enlightened 

    OT - Anyone else seen the disappointing acceleration test for the Cayenne TTS ? 0.6s difference upto 200km/h against the standard CTT

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedethecollector/8851002724/sizes/l/in/set-72157633687407332/


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    It's not that much the topspeed of the 12C but its acceleration numbers that impress me most.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    BiTurbo:

    Can you say Game Over 991 Turbo S ? and this was the spider which should've been slower than the coupe angry

    It's kind of getting old with Porsche always keeping the top speed below 320 km/h when it comes to the turbo, maybe it will do 320km/h but people would like to see official figures of nothing less than 325km/h+ for the turbo now that they've raised the price to 200k euro  enlightened

    OT - Anyone else seen the disappointing acceleration test for the Cayenne TTS ? 0.6s difference upto 200km/h against the standard CTT

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedethecollector/8851002724/sizes/l/in/set-72157633687407332/

    Comparing the 991 Turbo S to the MP4-12C is not really helpful.

    Considering that a similar skilled driver will drive both cars, the 991 Turbo S would probably "win" each time.

    Yes, over 130 kph or so, the 991 Turbo S would  loose acceleration runs but it will always win the typical red light run, which is more likely in real life situations.

    Can I take my family with me in the McLaren? Nope. Can I drive  on snow with the McLaren? Also not very likely.

    Are there any good lease deals for the McLaren? Not that I heard of.

    The nearest dealership is 70km away and there is actually one guy who has a slight clue how to repair these cars.

    Yes, the MP4-12C is an amazing sports car but it targets a different audience in my opinion. The audience which would choose a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for example.

    If you want a true Porsche competitor, wait until the next GT2 RS is out. Then, let's talk again. 

    Speaking of the Cayenne Turbo and Turbo S: The 0.6 seconds difference is not surprising. So what? There is a 0.5 seconds difference between the new 991 Turbo and Turbo S. From 200 to 300 kph however, the difference is much bigger. I agree, there should be a more substantial difference but for the price difference of "net" 12k EUR or so, I think this is OK. Also we haven't seen real world test data of the new Turbo/S yet, so let Porsche surprise you. Turbo engines tend to  "spread" power to the upper or lower side, so there could be huge differences or almost none.

    The 991 Turbo S is NOT the 911 top model, the GT2RS is. So relax...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    BiTurbo:

    Can you say Game Over 991 Turbo S ? and this was the spider which should've been slower than the coupe angry

    It's kind of getting old with Porsche always keeping the top speed below 320 km/h when it comes to the turbo, maybe it will do 320km/h but people would like to see official figures of nothing less than 325km/h+ for the turbo now that they've raised the price to 200k euro  enlightened

    Eh, who cares? I've never gotten anywhere close to top speed. I'll take a top speed of 160mph if you can get me to it in 5 seconds. Acceleration and performance at more normal speeds is what really matters.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    It matters to those pesky Europeans :) They have the Autobahn where top speed do mean a difference in performance. But granted, the acceleration figures also plays an important role.

    Cultural difference between them and us. There is no where for us to go for top speed so pure acceleration, especially from rest, is what matters most to us, 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile etc. These are where the Turbo/Turbo S shines, awd means  they are pretty much untouchables. 


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    RC:
    BiTurbo:

    Can you say Game Over 991 Turbo S ? and this was the spider which should've been slower than the coupe angry

    It's kind of getting old with Porsche always keeping the top speed below 320 km/h when it comes to the turbo, maybe it will do 320km/h but people would like to see official figures of nothing less than 325km/h+ for the turbo now that they've raised the price to 200k euro  enlightened

    OT - Anyone else seen the disappointing acceleration test for the Cayenne TTS ? 0.6s difference upto 200km/h against the standard CTT

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedethecollector/8851002724/sizes/l/in/set-72157633687407332/

    Comparing the 991 Turbo S to the MP4-12C is not really helpful.

    Considering that a similar skilled driver will drive both cars, the 991 Turbo S would probably "win" each time.

    Yes, over 130 kph or so, the 991 Turbo S would  loose acceleration runs but it will always win the typical red light run, which is more likely in real life situations.

    Can I take my family with me in the McLaren? Nope. Can I drive  on snow with the McLaren? Also not very likely.

    Are there any good lease deals for the McLaren? Not that I heard of.

    The nearest dealership is 70km away and there is actually one guy who has a slight clue how to repair these cars.

    Yes, the MP4-12C is an amazing sports car but it targets a different audience in my opinion. The audience which would choose a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for example.

    If you want a true Porsche competitor, wait until the next GT2 RS is out. Then, let's talk again. 

    Speaking of the Cayenne Turbo and Turbo S: The 0.6 seconds difference is not surprising. So what? There is a 0.5 seconds difference between the new 991 Turbo and Turbo S. From 200 to 300 kph however, the difference is much bigger. I agree, there should be a more substantial difference but for the price difference of "net" 12k EUR or so, I think this is OK. Also we haven't seen real world test data of the new Turbo/S yet, so let Porsche surprise you. Turbo engines tend to  "spread" power to the upper or lower side, so there could be huge differences or almost none.

    The 991 Turbo S is NOT the 911 top model, the GT2RS is. So relax...

    Everyone goes through different circumstances and in your case the MP4 is a no no, while others might not care about what you mentioned.

    Does Porsche even bother to bump the power for free as McLaren did ? not even in a million years Smiley oh yes, 12k extra if you want 50hp extra in a Cayenne and 33k for the 991 TTS Smiley Porsche Philosophy ? Smiley

    Do we know anything about hp difference in the 991 turbo vs turbo s ? ecu (extra boost) only ? different turbo compressors ? different intercoolers with extra cores ? nothing as of yet and the extra cost is a bit steep.

    I hope you're kidding comparing a GT2 RS (stripped down 911) to a standard MP4 with navi/leather etc.... Smiley

    In the past there were no GT2's and it's been around since the mid 90's and is sold in limited quantities (not RC friendly cause of 2WD, missing rear seats blablablabla Smiley while the Turbo has been around for several decades and it still doesn't deserve to get that magical 200mph+ as its top speed from the factory without tampering with the ecu or customers being forced to spend that extra money to get there. Smiley


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    RC have you ever driven the MP4?

    I did, on road and track and i can tell you it is probably easier to drive 9/10s compared to a stock 911 turbo. And I am a fanatic 911 turbo fan as i have owned (and tuned) 4 generations of 911tts. 


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Omg Guys - i am a 997.1 Turbo owner and test drove the MP4-12C yesterday over 300 km mixed highways, countryroads and lil bit city driving. 

    WHAT A CAR. This thing just flys. It is by far the most comfortable supercar that i drove, but you can convert it easily in a track tool by two dial clicks. The acceleration, the brakes, initial turn in, mid corner stability. It has it all. The looks. The feel. And also the sound - yes it is no ferrari bark - but for me it has it. I am in awe what McLaren has produced.

    I dont understand RC and also Kresos comentary about the 12C. You guys need to drive it and plz take your Prosche or whatever glasses off that you wear all the time. You are both way to biased and come in with flimsy arguments. Yes the doors are a pitty and not practical, but with the carbon fiber tube i think its a solution which works and which looks awesome. You guys need to be a "little" bit more objective.

    DSC_0046_768.jpg

    DSC_0047_768.jpg

     


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    I had the same impressions when I test drove the car on a air trip + open roads for a day. very easy to drive slowly and fast . Probably easier then the TT .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

    Omg Guys - i am a 997.1 Turbo owner and test drove the MP4-12C yesterday over 300 km mixed highways, countryroads and lil bit city driving. 

    WHAT A CAR. This thing just flys. It is by far the most comfortable supercar that i drove, but you can convert it easily in a track tool by two dial clicks. The acceleration, the brakes, initial turn in, mid corner stability. It has it all. The looks. The feel. And also the sound - yes it is no ferrari bark - but for me it has it. I am in awe what McLaren has produced.

    I dont understand RC and also Kresos comentary about the 12C. You guys need to drive it and plz take your Prosche or whatever glasses off that you wear all the time. You are both way to biased and come in with flimsy arguments. Yes the doors are a pitty and not practical, but with the carbon fiber tube i think its a solution which works and which looks awesome. You guys need to be a "little" bit more objective.

    DSC_0046_768.jpg

    DSC_0047_768.jpg

     

    Look, did you read my comments about MP4-12C carefully? My very good friend owns F12 Berlinetta, MP4-12C and 991C4S coupe(-20mm/PDCC) and I got the chance to drive all three cars at lenght. I drove F12 from Lago di Como(where my friend lives) till Rome and on the way back(from Rome to Lago di Como) I drove MP4-12C(which he drove on our way to Rome). It is little bit more then 300km by the way...

    My comments are subjective as are yours. I would take 458 Italia any time over MP4-12C. And MP4-12C can not touch F12 Berlinetta in ANY important area.

    BTW, did you a really liked that doors, PITA seat entery, IRIS navi etc? Did you really liked gearbox ratios and overall gearbox software adaptation? Did you liked precog?  

    Yes, MP4-12C is very, very fast and comfortable for the true sportscar. I even like overall exterior design. Just, after my pretty decent test drive my conclusion is that I would not buy it.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

     

    WHAT A CAR. This thing just flys. It is by far the most comfortable supercar that i drove, but you can convert it easily in a track tool by two dial clicks. The acceleration, the brakes, initial turn in, mid corner stability. It has it all. The looks. The feel. And also the sound - yes it is no ferrari bark - but for me it has it. I am in awe what McLaren has produced.

     

    I can understand your enthusiasm - compared to the 997TT the McLaren is a phantastic car (except for the seating position, maybe...) Smiley Only when you compare it to the GT models the car shows some substatial weaknesses: synthetic steering feel, ambiguous behavior of transmission and dynamic suspension electronics in fast corners, less convincing brakes etc.

    I.e. I would argue that the McLaren is a strong competitor to the turbo(if you can live with the design, don't need AWD) - but not so much to the GT models (GT2 in particular, of course) Smiley


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Yes with the electric seats the seating position is a problem for taller people like me. It is to high and a little bit to near to the instrument cluster. I sat in a showroom car with standard seats and it was way better. With little bit adjustment a perfect sitting position.

    It seems there is a difference between electric and non electric seats.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

    I dont understand RC and also Kresos comentary about the 12C. You guys need to drive it and plz take your Prosche or whatever glasses off that you wear all the time. You are both way to biased and come in with flimsy arguments. Yes the doors are a pitty and not practical, but with the carbon fiber tube i think its a solution which works and which looks awesome. You guys need to be a "little" bit more objective.

    DSC_0046_768.jpg

    DSC_0047_768.jpg

     

    Sorry but stating that Kreso has "flimsy" arguments and he "biased" could not be further from the truth.  He is well known for being a true, not one-brand centric, sportscar enthusiast (you can do a search of his posts on all the sportscars released since he joined Rennteam) and his piece on the MP4-12C shows that he drove the car extensively.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Oh come on - Kreso a true sports car enthusiast. He is a guy that makes "Period" statements all the time to give his "knowledge" the right standing. Also RC tends in the same direction. (Here a statement from RC to Leawoods 997.1 Turbo purchase on 11th April: “You are aware that you drive an old model of the 911 Turbo, so I’m not quite sure why you are so happy about it?! “). That’s not ok. Why shouldn’t he not happy with that decision. That is not in RCs area to judge about it.

    I can show you many posts where Kreso said to buy this or that sport car (Audi R8 V10, 997.2 Turbo S, Ferrari 458 Italia to name a few). And has he showed up on the forum with one of them? Not one. And let’s say it in his own words: Period.

    And to drive the MP4-12C straight from Roma to Lake Como on highway is for sure a nice drive, but that gives you only the ability to judge about the highway driveability.

    We are all here enthusiasts and all ppl here and there knowledge should be treated with the same standing. Thats all i want to say 


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    To be fair .... Kreso a while back did praise the Jag XKR and say that he was thinking of buying one..  For RC he needs rear seats, a dealer close by and a good lease deal or forget it. His requirements about that shouldn't be taken as a drooling Porsche love fest, its more like there is no option for him.

    The F458 produces a lot of driver emotion, but when you examine one closely  while up on a service lift and see the crap welds on the subframe, the poor paint quality,  areas where they didnt even bother to paint, strange servicing issues (like 12 hrs to change the wiper fuse because you have to remove the dashboard entirely to get at it) it really makes you wonder what Ferrari engineers and workers drink for breakfast.

    The 2013 McLaren is the better built car. The recent upgrades address all of the launch cars performance issues. But the doors maybe kill it for everyday use.


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    GT:

    RC have you ever driven the MP4?

    I did, on road and track and i can tell you it is probably easier to drive 9/10s compared to a stock 911 turbo. And I am a fanatic 911 turbo fan as i have owned (and tuned) 4 generations of 911tts. 

    Yes, I have driven the MP4, unfortunately not on a track. I don't think it is easier to drive really fast than a 991 Turbo S Smiley but I agree that the traction control is amazingly well programmed and you almost think you drive an AWD car minus the additional weight (drove it most of the time in "T" setting). It was almost impossible to drift with this car, only a few back slides but I really had to try hard, which should please newbies but would certainly not make those happy, who enjoy a good drift (not me, drifting slows down). Speaking of weight: This is actually the strong point of the MP4-12C, the car feels very light and nimble. Not sure however how this translates into crash safety, I tend to believe that all manufacturers are cooking with water, as to speak, so the weight reduction has to come at a price (either McLaren doesn't make too much money with these cars or they compromise crash safety).

    Don't get me wrong: The MP4-12C is an amazing car and in a perfect world, I would own one too, I would actually prefer the MP4-12C over the F458 anytime, even if many claim that the Ferrari is more fun to drive (which I cannot confirm or deny because there was almost a year between driving the 458 and the MP4 and I simply don't remember anymore). The reasons I chose a 991 Turbo S instead (actually not "instead" because I never considered a McLaren) are related to my personal circumstances (money, social environment, region I live in, etc.).

    To make it short: I would probably get a MP4-12C Spider instead of a 458 Spider, simply because the McLaren is also not a Ferrari, which kind of helps a little bit over here in Germany. People associate Ferrari with money. McLaren? Wasn't there a McLaren Mercedes? Smiley Ordinary "non-car savy" people do not associate McLaren with "expensive" (they probably never heard of the F1), so the McLaren would be a better choice for German streets than a Ferrari but I also have to admit that the lack of back seats and the lack of good lease deals are kind of a deal breaker for me too. This is why I didn't wait for the GT2 RS and this is why I passed on the 991 GT3.

    Like I said before, I do not think that the 991 Turbo S and the MP4-12C are direct competitors but I can see why others believe that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

    Oh come on - Kreso a true sports car enthusiast. He is a guy that makes "Period" statements all the time to give his "knowledge" the right standing. Also RC tends in the same direction. (Here a statement from RC to Leawoods 997.1 Turbo purchase on 11th April: “You are aware that you drive an old model of the 911 Turbo, so I’m not quite sure why you are so happy about it?! “). That’s not ok. Why shouldn’t he not happy with that decision. That is not in RCs area to judge about it.

    I love it when people take comments out of context, maybe you should do me a favor and post the whole thread to understand why I made the comment I made. Little hint: It didn't start with me. Smiley I get it, you don't agree because you drive a 997 Turbo. Point taken. Smiley

    Judging? Listen, this is a discussion forum. I have strong opinions but if I would judge or rather make statements, I would run a blog with the comments turned off, not a discussion forum. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    JimFlat6:

    To be fair .... Kreso a while back did praise the Jag XKR and say that he was thinking of buying one..  For RC he needs rear seats, a dealer close by and a good lease deal or forget it. His requirements about that shouldn't be taken as a drooling Porsche love fest, its more like there is no option for him.

    True. Smiley Also: Rennteam is and always was a discussion forum with a strong focus on Porsche. So nobody should be surprised that we kind of love Porsche, even if they sometimes mess up. Smiley

    No, Porsche isn't the only sports car brand on this planet and I have to admit that with cars like the MP4-12C, the 458/F12/FF and the Gallardo/Aventador, the competition has come very close to Porsche or even got better.

    Still, looking at Aston Martin, Maserati, Jaguar or even Audi with the R8, I don't think that every potential competitor got it right. I also think that, especially in Europe, Porsche cars provide some sort of a more stealth enjoyment without provoking in the current social environment in Europe. I've seen many Porsche in Italy last week but only one Ferrari (with NL license plates). Yes, even Porsche is considered a luxury brand but a Ferrari kind of makes a statement: "Look here, I am rich". I know this isn't true, we met a F360 Spider driver with his girl friend, very nice guy, he bought the Spider used for 70k EUR, this is the new car price of a better Audi A6 Diesel station wagon with full options over here but a Ferrari is a Ferrari, so you get my point.

    This is not the time to show off wealth in many parts of Europe and what works in the US or in Monaco, unfortunately doesn't really work in other regions. So yes, there is no option right now for me, Porsche is the best option I have. Not that I really want to complaint about it. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

    Oh come on - Kreso a true sports car enthusiast. He is a guy that makes "Period" statements all the time to give his "knowledge" the right standing. Also RC tends in the same direction. (Here a statement from RC to Leawoods 997.1 Turbo purchase on 11th April: “You are aware that you drive an old model of the 911 Turbo, so I’m not quite sure why you are so happy about it?! “). That’s not ok. Why shouldn’t he not happy with that decision. That is not in RCs area to judge about it.

    I can show you many posts where Kreso said to buy this or that sport car (Audi R8 V10, 997.2 Turbo S, Ferrari 458 Italia to name a few). And has he showed up on the forum with one of them? Not one. And let’s say it in his own words: Period.

    And to drive the MP4-12C straight from Roma to Lake Como on highway is for sure a nice drive, but that gives you only the ability to judge about the highway driveability.

    We are all here enthusiasts and all ppl here and there knowledge should be treated with the same standing. Thats all i want to say 

    Personal attacks are your forte, isn't it?

    I WAS thinking about buying R8 V10, SLS AMG and 458 Italia at the time, but I did not get any of them for various reasons(price, local political climate or too extesnive waiting period in 458 case).

    All I can say about your personal attack to me isSmileySmileySmiley


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

    I can show you many posts where Kreso said to buy this or that sport car (Audi R8 V10, 997.2 Turbo S, Ferrari 458 Italia to name a few). And has he showed up on the forum with one of them? Not one. And let’s say it in his own words: Period.

     Thats a valid point. Period


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    hunterone:

    Oh come on - Kreso a true sports car enthusiast. He is a guy that makes "Period" statements all the time to give his "knowledge" the right standing. Also RC tends in the same direction. (Here a statement from RC to Leawoods 997.1 Turbo purchase on 11th April: “You are aware that you drive an old model of the 911 Turbo, so I’m not quite sure why you are so happy about it?! “). That’s not ok. Why shouldn’t he not happy with that decision. That is not in RCs area to judge about it.

    I can show you many posts where Kreso said to buy this or that sport car (Audi R8 V10, 997.2 Turbo S, Ferrari 458 Italia to name a few). And has he showed up on the forum with one of them? Not one. And let’s say it in his own words: Period.

    And to drive the MP4-12C straight from Roma to Lake Como on highway is for sure a nice drive, but that gives you only the ability to judge about the highway driveability.

    We are all here enthusiasts and all ppl here and there knowledge should be treated with the same standing. Thats all i want to say 

    The fact that we are all enthusiasts does not mean that there posts should be treated with the same standing, that depends more on the objectivety and validity of the arguments in their posts, and to be blunt I personally place more value to Kreso's comments than yours given his track record on contributions here compared to yours like this post above were you need to resort to derogatory  remarks.


    --


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Carlos from Spain:
     

    The fact that we are all enthusiasts does not mean that there posts should be treated with the same standing, that depends more on the objectivety and validity of the arguments in their posts, and to be blunt I personally place more value to Kreso's comments than yours given his track record on contributions here compared to yours like this post above were you need to resort to derogatory  remarks.

    Very true, Carlos. Smiley Most people don't even know Kreso's car "background" or mine or yours for that matter, they come here, don't even realize that this forum has been around for more than 10(!) years and what experience many of us here have with cars and not only cars but also manufacturers. We have an exceptional high number of "professional" users who work for car companies and/or parts manufacturers and of course these people can't unveil themselves for obvious reasons. Same goes to certain VIP users (literally) who are well known in the racing scene but don't want others to know that they are on this forum. I could continue with examples but to make my (and your) point: Kreso's many posts in the past have been almost always right on the spot, including rumors and announcements of new products. I value his opinion a lot and I know many here who do the same.

    I understand that the anonymity of the internet makes it kind of difficult to know who a certain person is and who to trust with information but I think that it is quite easy to see through the anonymity once people evaluate the posts of certain users.

    Or to use Preuninger's words in a recent article about the internet "car crowd": People always complaint on the internet. Yes, complaining is part of the game but at the same time, I would expect some  valuable information in exchange. I see some users complaint and attack others (incl. me) all the time but I kind of miss the give and take value here... Smiley Just saying... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (ordered), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    Interesting thread. 


    At the end its always a question of personal taste and preferences.

    Being a lifetime Porsche fan...I have to admit I am also disappointed with their current model range (911 getting to GT, too influenced by Panamera). Still think 991 turbo/S is a great car, though I would have loved to see the turbo S closer to 600 hp (580hp?), with some more exclusive extras which justifies that price increase.

    On the MP4-12C.... I really, really like it. Fantastic drive, stunning fast, nice finish. BTW being also tall...I didn´t have an issue to fit in.

     

     


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    kashmir:

    Interesting thread. 


    At the end its always a question of personal taste and preferences.

    Being a lifetime Porsche fan...I have to admit I am also disappointed with their current model range (911 getting to GT, too influenced by Panamera). Still think 991 turbo/S is a great car, though I would have loved to see the turbo S closer to 600 hp (580hp?), with some more exclusive extras which justifies that price increase.

    On the MP4-12C.... I really, really like it. Fantastic drive, stunning fast, nice finish. BTW being also tall...I didn´t have an issue to fit in.

     

     

    This is actually a very valid point. Let's just hope that the real life performance is better than it looks on paper.

    I am also very curious about throttle response, turbo lag (or the lack of), AWD setup (the 997 Turbo/Turbo S had too much RWD characteristics, which doesn't make sense for an AWD car in my opinion) and PDK reaction. According to some recent information I got, there have been substantial improvements. This is actually what I do not understand: Porsche claims to have used aprox. 90% new parts in the new 991 Turbo/Turbo S, which would actually make it a completely new car vs. the "old" 997 Turbo/Turbo S. Now while this sounds impressive, I would love to know what the differences are. On paper, the 991 Turbo/Turbo S looks like a nice evolution of the 997 Turbo/Turbo S but then, why use 90% new parts? So what are the enhancements? Why did Porsche use 90% new parts? What are the differences in detail? Or did Porsche just change the parts to save money and to improve profit? Considering the price hike, I rather want to believe that Porsche really put something new on the street here. 

    Porsche needs to understand that customers are curious and furthermore, they want to know what they pay for.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    MKSGR:

    I can understand your enthusiasm - compared to the 997TT the McLaren is a phantastic car (except for the seating position, maybe...) Smiley Only when you compare it to the GT models the car shows some substatial weaknesses: synthetic steering feel, ambiguous behavior of transmission and dynamic suspension electronics in fast corners, less convincing brakes etc.

    I.e. I would argue that the McLaren is a strong competitor to the turbo(if you can live with the design, don't need AWD) - but not so much to the GT models (GT2 in particular, of course) Smiley

    Exactly. Comparing the MP4-12C to the old 997.1 Turbo is like comparing the new 991 Turbo S to the new BMW M6. 

    I also think that many people make the mistake to see the 911 Turbo S as the top of the line 911 but in reality, the GT2 RS is. Speaking of synthetic steering feel: I now remember what I liked more about the 458 vs. the MP4-12C. The steering feel. 

    A last word regarding the "entry" of the McLaren: I kind of found it funny. Not easy but funny. Made me feel younger... Smiley My wife had a different opinion though... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Sport Auto's Christian Gebhardt drove a McLaren 12C Spider to test its top speed

    RC:
     

    A last word regarding the "entry" of the McLaren: I kind of found it funny. Not easy but funny. Made me feel younger... Smiley My wife had a different opinion though... Smiley

     

    Women hates it. My wife had only been in the car twice. 


     
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