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    Winter tires

    Hello everyone  Smiley

    What winter tires do you recommend? Smiley I have a 997.2 4S cab pdk.. Smiley

    I'm torn between Pirelli Winter Sottozero, Dunlop sport 3D e Nokian WR.. Smiley

    Thank you in advance


    Re: Winter tires

    These winter tires are currently approved for your car by Porsche (not sure if dealers have a newer list):

    reifen.png

    I suppose for Milan, the Winter 240 Sottozero Serie II is the right choice.

    Unless you drive a lot around the mountains in winter time: The Nokian WR would be the better choice, it is an excellent tire in snow but isn't too good on dry/wet pavement, especially when the temperature exceeds + 5° C. Keep that in mind if you don't drive too much in snow.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Winter tires

    Unless you drive in a lot of deep snow - in which care you would be high sided regargless of the tires I would suggest you try the new Conti DWS (Dry Wet Snow).  I have a set I am currently trying AND am using them all year around.  They are very quiet, handle well, work in wet and cold and have great treadwear.  Just took my second trip to Montreal and back in six weeks and love the feel of them on long stretches.  Then took them to winding Ozark roads at very high speeds and really enjoyed them even more.  They should work well in the snow.  I drive all year so the snow rating is imporant to me.  What is impressive is that I can use them all the time - at $850 for four from tirerack.com delivered.  Crazy good deal.  I go through a lot of tires.

    Cheers,

     


    Re: Winter tires

    Not sure if the Nokian's are exactly the same as when I purchased my set but I keep the Nokian's WR NO's (believe the NO is for Porsche spec, I used to know this stuff)  on the factory wheels (w/ their set of TPMS sensors) and switch to them in December every year. I don't take my 997 out purposely in the snow but do like to drive the car year round so my PS2's are a bad idea for that in below freezing temps... .The small amount of snow I have been in the tires performed great, surprised actually at how well they/or the car (Turbo w/ AWD) or combo most likely performed in the snow.  I had gone to a large open parking lot just to get a better idea for their limits & was shocked at how they gripped & especially how well the car w/ the Nokian's stopped in a couple of inches of snow.. Mostly I'm not driving in snow, in the cold, even very cold they have been great too.

    Also not sure of current supply but in the past sometimes they were hard to get so if you decide on the Nokian's it may be worth checking sooner rather than later.

    Prior to purchasing the Nokian's did some reserach & liked what I was hearing over the Pirelli Winter Sottozero but I've never had the chance to do any personal tests of both. Good luck.


    Re: Winter tires

    Leawood911:

    Unless you drive in a lot of deep snow - in which care you would be high sided regargless of the tires I would suggest you try the new Conti DWS (Dry Wet Snow).  I have a set I am currently trying AND am using them all year around.  They are very quiet, handle well, work in wet and cold and have great treadwear.  Just took my second trip to Montreal and back in six weeks and love the feel of them on long stretches.  Then took them to winding Ozark roads at very high speeds and really enjoyed them even more.  They should work well in the snow.  I drive all year so the snow rating is imporant to me.  What is impressive is that I can use them all the time - at $850 for four from tirerack.com delivered.  Crazy good deal.  I go through a lot of tires.

    Cheers,

     

    The Conti DWS is not approved for the 997.2. Don't forget that the thread starter is located in Italy and thus has "access" to the Autobahn. So called All-Season tires aren't good in anything, they are a compromise. Not good for fast driving, not good for snow, only good for your pocket (to save money). Smiley

    The DWS is not available in Germany, for a very good reason. 

    The Nokian WR N0 is a great winter tire for snowy regions, I had it for a couple of years on my 997 Turbo and it was amazing.

    For less snowy regions, I would recommend the Pirelli.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Winter tires

    RC - I agree 100% that the DWS are a compromise.  I would not have suggested them for the Autobahn in the dry.  I don't know what you mean by approved (are the illegal or are they just missing a stamp of Porsche approval?)

    I suggested them as a light duty snow tire which works well in the cold and the wet as well.  For me they are a great compromise because I only drive on the street and much over 140mph for any stretch of time will simply result in being arrested in the US.  For me to use the difference in performance between an N2 tire (or other 'approved' tire) and the DWS on the street would also be just a bit foolish, dare I say reckless.  However, the difference between the N2 etc and the DWS in the wet, cold and snow if VERY useable and valuable.  With the N2 you are simply left with your pants down in the cold.  Forget about cold and wet or light snow.  I would also bet that the DWS leaves the approved snow tires in the dust except for the worst snow.

    While I agree the N2 rating (or N1) is the best way to go for max performance it is a shame you can't get the DWS there just to try and see what I am finding to be a great tire.  I have tried many types of rubber on my 996 and 997 and all the other 911s prior to them.  The pilots wear out too fast and are too noisy, the Bridgestones I have tried were a bit better and lasted longer.  These DWS Contis are PERFECT for me and my driving here in the US and I don't feel like I am burning a hole in my pocket when I go sideways for fun, which I do a lot.  I do plan to use them in the snow all winter long - per this thread.  Yes, there are steep streets in Kansas as well.

    In the wet or the cold - on the street in the real world - I would be happy to demonstrate to any Pilot or Corsa tire owner (or approved dedicated Snow tire owner) what the rear of my car looks like at a distance using the DWS.  Just sayin' sometimes a compromise works out.  I have tried all types of the tires myself for many years and that is my viewpoint (from the US where we do have speed limits like in 95% of Europe).  If you get a chance to try the DWS and are not impressed I would be shocked.

    By the way, while you do have some unlimited autobahn in ONE country - Germany (certainly not in Italy) I would hazard to say that in terms of getting away with speeding in general and average speeds when not on the autobahn, like suburbs and city driving we can get away with a much higher speed.  I don't have to fear radar cameras, red light cameras etc.  My Valentine One is generally a free pass to drive at my own pace. (In Europe my Andorran tags are my free pass)

     


    Re: Winter tires

    Leawood911, 'approved' means Porsche N-spec tyres that are developed by the tyre manufacturer in conjunction with Porsche and then tested and approved by Porsche itself. They are different from generic tyres. 


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Winter tires

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=26


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Winter tires

    easy_rider911:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=26

    Sorry for the confusion Easy.  I am well aware of the meaning of the N1 and N2 ratings and why Porsche approves some tires and not others.  But thank you for the link.  My question was if it was illegal for drivers in Europe to NOT use the N2 or N1 tires.  In other words are the Manufacturers approved tires required for the car to be street legal and insured?

    Just because Porsche has tested and approved some tires does not mean that others are not as good or better in certain conditions (or in general for that matter).  It is not like the Conti will fall apart (actually it will last much longer).  Sometimes I think we get a little too brand involved - too interested in ratings and names etc. to keep an open mind.  That can be both expensive and also prevent some of the fun of trying new things.  I bet Michellin has taken a close look at the competition like the DWS.  Tires like the DWS will keep them honest (and prices resonable I hope).

    Since you are on the TireRack site - take a look at the price, wear rating and reviews for the DWS tires which fit the 997 (235 and 295 X 19).  Sorry you can't try them. Take it from me - they are not bad at all.

    Cheers, thanks for the input.

     

     


    Re: Winter tires

    Pure anecdotes here.

    I have a second set of wheels mounted with the Pirelli 240 Sottozero Serie II for my Panamera and I couldn't be any happier.  They handle cold, dry or wet surfaces very well and even deep snow is not the slightest problem with the AWD of the Panamera Turbo.  I drove 13 hours into the teeth of a NY/Mass blizzard last winter and couldn't believe how well they worked.  They seemed perfect.

    On another car for my kids, I have tried Nokian WRG2 "all-season" with the mountain snow flake severe winter service symbol on the sidewall and found them to be OK in summer and OK in winter, but not as good in winter as Blizzaks by a considerable margin.

    My wife's Audi S4 has Conti DWS mounted and they are very good all-year tires for the Ohio climate and speed limits.

    As always, YMMV.


    --

    Mike

    2005 Carrera GT + 2008 Tesla Roadster +2010 Panamera Turbo + 2001 BMW Z8 + 1972 BMW 3.0 CSi +2009 Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Winter tires

    You would be surprised what a difference the same brand and tire type but one with and the other one without N-rating make in real life, especially on the 911.

    All-Season tires aren't fish or meat as we say here. They serve their purpose but they aren't good in anything.

    Yes, the DWS would fall apart...at Vmax on my GTS Cab. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Winter tires

    LUPINN:

    Hello everyone

    What winter tires do you recommend?


    Welcome! Smiley

    As being said above, it´d depend a bit on your main usage as both dimensions and tire brand can make a difference.


    Re: Winter tires

    Leawood911:

    I agree 100% that the DWS are a compromise.


    I think it is interesting to note that the DWS is not offered in Germany, although Conti is a German company. From what I could gather, most modern allseason tires have both a pretty decent summer and winter performance. The Goodyear version which is used as a OEM offer is actually more of a winter tire in terms of compound and tread pattern with the outer sidewall to be optimized for summer cornering grip. That said, the compound is very soft which will cause the tire to wear off much faster during summer time than a season tire. I would be curious to hear about your longevity experience with the DWS.

    Which summer tires have you used on the 997 so far? Porsche´s summertire range will also wear off comparatively fast but this is rather due to their performance orientation. That indeed might be a bit of a waste if one drives primarily long distance in a straight line.


    Re: Winter tires

    L,

    I am in a 'snow ' area of the US.  As well as, lots of ice on the roads.  From about November to March.  Temp range is below

    0 c degrees.  I put Conti Snows on 18 inch rims the first year I had my P car--- winter 2006 ( I have separate 19" rims with high proformance Spring/Summer/Fall tires-much nicer).  It is easy to do the swap out each November.  The one winter I had this set up,, it was great-- weight over the rear axle/ESC.   The Conti's are high pro winter tires, and the lower profile ,also, helped.  Only issues were when more than six inches of snow fell--- I would be a car "float" if there were drifts of snow.  After a day or two, the roads were cleared.   Nice ice proformance.     After that first winter, I decided to buy a winter car and store the P-car ,,,with my other 'nice weather'  cars.  Got a dull Mercury Milan AWD V-6 six speed (think Ford Fusion).  I put the same type of package on it , in the Winter,,,,and , it goes anywhere ,,,in any condition.  Don't really worry much about the abundance of road salt we use in my area of the country.  Not a sportcar,,,but good for those six months. Other winter car is Lincoln Sports Sedan,,,,also, decked out with snows.   Our old 1991 BMW 325 i could not function in the Winter,,,but, with the snows it worked out very well.,,,,,,    So,  you get the proper winter coverage and get to buy better performance Spring/Summer/Fall tires for the rest of the year,,,,,,,

    I would still use the 997 in the Winter if I needed one car,,,,, again, it proformed great.  Lesson is to evaluate your own weather conditions and types of storms,,,ice,,,and , how the government clears the roads (including side streets).  Our area , I feel, demands the proper rubber on the road and NOT,,,,, all weather type of tires for year round.   Your own area is different than Minnesota,,of course.

    Good Luck,

    jack49  Smiley


    Re: Winter tires

    Anyone who has watched Fargo will know what kind of snow you guys get each winter.

    IMO you could have a SUV (e.g. Cayenne) with winter tyres and then a 911 with summer tyres as a lovely year round combo :)


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Winter tires

    You Betcha !  (many people here--Twin Cities-- hate that film,,,wood chipper and all).     Any awd/four wheel drive vehicle is great with snows.  Amazing how many people think they have it "all" with jus the four wheel drive ---- still cannot stop and/or steer as well.              Good idea on SUV...  I do like the Milan sedan,,,with awd,,,,  5 star crash.. Great for getting four new grandson seats in and out.....           Got the 325I/997s/  1989.5  Miata and, 1936 Ford Fordor Deluxe (think Bonnie and Clyde car)...... for the good parts of our year ( which is spectacular).   If you ski/snow shoe,,,,ice fish,,,,snow mobile,,,also, nice country.  Just need right clothes and the ability to get to warm place in Jan/Feb  each year (cabin fever syndrome).

    Great forum.......

    jack49

     


    Re: Winter tires

    Put the Blizzaks on my 987.2 today. They're brilliant in the snow, but less so in the wet. They seem happier when it's really cold.
    --

    2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: Winter tires

    RE N ratings etc.

    Marketing Bravo Sierra!

    Do you think Porsche tests tires and just picks out the ones they think are best?

    I think you will find that these tire manufacturers pay large sums to get on the list, just like Mobil 1!

    For winter tires I use and have used the Dunlop WinterSport, it is a superb tire.

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Winter tires

    You might think it's marketing, but you have to know one thing, tires maker sometimes make 2 versions of the same tire, same size but one with N rating and one without. Now why would they do that if it's just all marketing?

     


    Re: Winter tires

    Thanks to all, in the end I choose Nokian, also because of the N omologation.. 

    I hope it will snow a lot! (However I often go to the mountains..)


    Re: Winter tires

    Va bene! kiss


    Re: Winter tires

    This is a rhetorical question, right?


    Re: Winter tires

    Whoopsy:

    You might think it's marketing, but you have to know one thing, tires maker sometimes make 2 versions of the same tire, same size but one with N rating and one without. Now why would they do that if it's just all marketing?

     

    It is not marketing. The marketing urban legend has been spread by tire shops because they usually get a better deal on non-N tires (because of production quantities/demand), so they try to lure buyers into getting non-N rated tires. This is nothing new to the Porsche community.

    There is a substantial difference in tire mixture and tread stiffness, so not everything which sounds like marketing hype, is marketing hype. If you are a pharmacist or a doctor, you can somehow compare it to generics. People who don't have a clue about them think they are the same as the original but in reality, there are tiny but important differences in how they are manufactured and/or what pharmaceutical additives are added.

    The only thing I really hate regarding winter tires are actually the winter wheel sets Porsche sells through the dealers. The prices are just insane, Porsche should find a solution for those who don't care too much about looks during winter time because paying 6600 EUR for a winter wheel set for my Carrera GTS Cab is just...insane. My dealer shaves off 600 EUR but still...6000 EUR ? The tires are worth around 2000 EUR at best, so I pay 4000 EUR for the rims only. I know this may sound like a bargain compared to the single rim prices but still, too much for winter wheels.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Winter tires

    That is insane.... Aston Martin only charge around £3000 (inc VAT) for a full set of 19" alloy winter wheels for the V12 Vantage and that comes fitted with a full set of four Pirelli Sottozero tyres, four tyre sensors, fitting, lifetime storage of your other wheels and lifetime swaps!!!


    Re: Winter tires

    Adam2S:

    That is insane.... Aston Martin only charge around £3000 (inc VAT) for a full set of 19" alloy winter wheels for the V12 Vantage and that comes fitted with a full set of four Pirelli Sottozero tyres, four tyre sensors, fitting, lifetime storage of your other wheels and lifetime swaps!!!

    Of course this is insane. Unfortunately I have no choice because of the central lock mechanism. I was aware of it before I ordered the car and I was thinking to go for the standard wheels but since I knew that I wouldn't drive my GTS during winter time, I decided against them. Right now I'm not sure I made the right decision, I would drive my GTS from time to time in snow too. Unfortunate situation but I won't pay over 6000 EUR for a wheel se for a car I barely drive. Never.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Winter tires

    Unless your next Porsche is also center lock and can re-use the winter wheel set..........


    Re: Winter tires

    This might be a very unsafe game as Porsche tend to change the tire specs on every new model. They really won't give up this huge additional profit. "Same procedure as every year" :-)
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: Winter tires

    Whoopsy:

    Unless your next Porsche is also center lock and can re-use the winter wheel set..........

    Well...I doubt it. Unfortunately.Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Winter tires

    You can always sell your wheels on Ebay. Original Porsche wheels always get a good price. 


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: Winter tires

    993Targa:

    You can always sell your wheels on Ebay. Original Porsche wheels always get a good price. 

     

    Do you really think I would get 5000 EUR on eBay for my wheel set ? 

    Also don't forget that I would have to ship it...

    I barely have time to wash my car, so this would be a huge inconvenience for me. Smiley

    My GTS Cab will go next autumn, it is almost sure that I will get a Cayenne Turbo. Unless a miracle happens. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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