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    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    bazza said:
    tiff drive 100 times better then coxkson!!hahah



    Tiff is a professional driver. Clarkson is just a talking head with more ego than guts.

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Ferrari claims that a non-professional can come within one second of what a factory driver can do around Fiorno. Aids are great. How many of you golfers would play golf with 1940 clubs and balls?



    What is the definition of a non-professional driver?
    I don't consider myself to be a second Schumacher and I doubt I would come even near to Horst v. Saurmas track times but I still think I'm an experienced driver. Since I now consider myself a non-professional driver, I don't think that a person like me achieving a track time close to a second of the test driver time, would really mean that EVERY non-professional driver could do the same.

    I think car companies (and I don't exclude Porsche or others) should try to be a little bit more honest with their customers. Advertisement is good but claims like this don't really make the roads safer. Imagine a 20-year old "non-professional" driver who just got a F430 as a gift from daddy trying to take Ferrari's claim seriously. Driving aids may help a lot but they can't beat physics.

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Ferrari claims that a non-professional can come within one second of what a factory driver can do around Fiorno. Aids are great. How many of you golfers would play golf with 1940 clubs and balls?



    What is the definition of a non-professional driver?
    I don't consider myself to be a second Schumacher and I doubt I would come even near to Horst v. Saurmas track times but I still think I'm an experienced driver. Since I now consider myself a non-professional driver, I don't think that a person like me achieving a track time close to a second of the test driver time, would really mean that EVERY non-professional driver could do the same.

    I think car companies (and I don't exclude Porsche or others) should try to be a little bit more honest with their customers. Advertisement is good but claims like this don't really make the roads safer. Imagine a 20-year old "non-professional" driver who just got a F430 as a gift from daddy trying to take Ferrari's claim seriously. Driving aids may help a lot but they can't beat physics.



    Again, I'm quite sure nberry is quoting jeremy clarkson, not Ferrari. Or quoting someone quoting him

    Jason Plato (former racing driver as well I think) on 5th Gear said 3 seconds was possible with a bit of practice (or something along that line).. So I'm quite sure Ferrari is not to blaim for this one

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    I agree... I think Jason Plato said 3 secs possible...
    BTW Jason is still a racing driver...Brtish Touring Cars...

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Ferrari claims that a non-professional can come within one second of what a factory driver can do around Fiorno. Aids are great. How many of you golfers would play golf with 1940 clubs and balls?



    What is the definition of a non-professional driver?
    I don't consider myself to be a second Schumacher and I doubt I would come even near to Horst v. Saurmas track times but I still think I'm an experienced driver. Since I now consider myself a non-professional driver, I don't think that a person like me achieving a track time close to a second of the test driver time, would really mean that EVERY non-professional driver could do the same.

    I think car companies (and I don't exclude Porsche or others) should try to be a little bit more honest with their customers. Advertisement is good but claims like this don't really make the roads safer. Imagine a 20-year old "non-professional" driver who just got a F430 as a gift from daddy trying to take Ferrari's claim seriously. Driving aids may help a lot but they can't beat physics.



    This much I do know. It is a lot easier to drive a Ferrari fast compared to a Porsche.

    Btw, Jeremy mentioned the one second difference and an article written on the 430 (I believe in one of the British car magazines) also quoted the one second difference.

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    This much I do know. It is a lot easier to drive a Ferrari fast compared to a Porsche.



    Time to re-question what you think you know...

    For starters you can't make such a generalised assumption on an entire maker' model line; are you comparing a F360SC to a C4 or a F430 with a GT2?

    Second, the mid-engine layout is harder to drive at the limit than the rear-engine (ex: Cayman vs 911) or front-engined, because of the mid-engined layout's lower polar moment of inertia.

    Third active safety systems play a vital role on how easy and safe a car is to drive a car is on the limit. Compare the two.

    And fourth, AWD is safer and easier to drive than RWD.


    Put that all together and you have your answer in each case scenario when comparing two specific models as to how easy they are to drive at the limit.

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    This much I do know. It is a lot easier to drive a Ferrari fast compared to a Porsche.



    Time to re-question what you think you know...

    For starters you can't make such a generalised assumption on an entire maker' model line; are you comparing a F360SC to a C4 or a F430 with a GT2?

    Second, the mid-engine layout is harder to drive at the limit than the rear-engine (ex: Cayman vs 911) or front-engined, because of the mid-engined layout's lower polar moment of inertia.

    Third active safety systems play a vital role on how easy and safe a car is to drive a car is on the limit. Compare the two.

    And fourth, AWD is safer and easier to drive than RWD.


    Put that all together and you have your answer in each case scenario when comparing two specific models as to how easy they are to drive at the limit.



    Very well said.

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    just in case, I forgot to mention that power and delivery, tires, suspension setup, etc. being similar that is...

    Re: tiff driven the f430 spyder on fifth gear tonight!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Ferrari claims that a non-professional can come within one second of what a factory driver can do around Fiorno. Aids are great. How many of you golfers would play golf with 1940 clubs and balls?



    What is the definition of a non-professional driver?
    I don't consider myself to be a second Schumacher and I doubt I would come even near to Horst v. Saurmas track times but I still think I'm an experienced driver. Since I now consider myself a non-professional driver, I don't think that a person like me achieving a track time close to a second of the test driver time, would really mean that EVERY non-professional driver could do the same.

    I think car companies (and I don't exclude Porsche or others) should try to be a little bit more honest with their customers. Advertisement is good but claims like this don't really make the roads safer. Imagine a 20-year old "non-professional" driver who just got a F430 as a gift from daddy trying to take Ferrari's claim seriously. Driving aids may help a lot but they can't beat physics.



    This much I do know. It is a lot easier to drive a Ferrari fast compared to a Porsche.

    Btw, Jeremy mentioned the one second difference and an article written on the 430 (I believe in one of the British car magazines) also quoted the one second difference.

    and this much I know...you cant leave any thread you post in without some sort of Porsche bashing. It used to make me angry & I thought it was stupid...now I just think its pathetic that you have to make such remarks. I mean if I was on some forum like supercars.net has for example, I would expect these kind of remarks. But I certainly wouldn't expect them from rennteam

     
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