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    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Still waiting for the chance to drive a ceramic-equipped 430, however, so that may change...

    Gary



    Drive one with CCM and you'll love them!

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    If it's more important to you that you just own a Ferrari and not really caring about the go- stop- handling performance & looks than it's not important.



    Strangely enough, I take a certain amount of umbrage to that comment. How many track days did you run in your 430 last year? One of the biggest reasons I chose iron brakes is because I like track days and didn't want to have to replace the ultra-expensive ceramic pads every 5 or 6 track days (which is what I'm hearing their practical life is since it's not wise to go below the 50% wear point). I am completely happy with my 100% fade-free iron brakes, and haven't seen or heard anything yet to change my mind. Still waiting for the chance to drive a ceramic-equipped 430, however, so that may change...

    Gary



    Sincere apology. No offense intended. Of course there's always exception's.

    I hear what you're saying about cost savings but one of the things I'm not sure you considered was the fact you should be changing your steel rotors w/ pad changes or at least every other pad change (if you're only using 50% of the pads) so while you're going to need four new rotors every pad/every other pad change if you had ceramics you wouldn't ever need to replace the rotors because of wear. I did an analysis of costs for the turbo steel vs. PCCB's and found you save approx. $1000 w/ the PCCB set-up everytime you need new pads because you don't need new rotors, since the pad's are approx. the same price (both the same size unlike the 430) after 8 or 9 pad changes the PCCB system would basically pay for itself. Or in other words the more miles you drive the less the PCCB system costs in maintance vs. steel. Because of the 430's steel pad vs. CCM pad price difference this may not be true.

    How much would it cost someone to have 4 steel rotors changed at a F-car dealer. parts & labor?

    But you sound like someone who would really appreciate the way the CCM's work under the way the car is meant to be driven, if you tried them out bet you would love them.

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    If it's more important to you that you just own a Ferrari and not really caring about the go- stop- handling performance & looks than it's not important.



    Strangely enough, I take a certain amount of umbrage to that comment. How many track days did you run in your 430 last year? One of the biggest reasons I chose iron brakes is because I like track days and didn't want to have to replace the ultra-expensive ceramic pads every 5 or 6 track days (which is what I'm hearing their practical life is since it's not wise to go below the 50% wear point). I am completely happy with my 100% fade-free iron brakes, and haven't seen or heard anything yet to change my mind. Still waiting for the chance to drive a ceramic-equipped 430, however, so that may change...

    Gary



    Sincere apology. No offense intended. Of course there's always exception's.

    I hear what you're saying about cost savings but one of the things I'm not sure you considered was the fact you should be changing your steel rotors w/ pad changes or at least every other pad change (if you're only using 50% of the pads) so while you're going to need four new rotors every pad/every other pad change if you had ceramics you wouldn't ever need to replace the rotors because of wear. I did an analysis of costs for the turbo steel vs. PCCB's and found you save approx. $1000 w/ the PCCB set-up everytime you need new pads because you don't need new rotors, since the pad's are approx. the same price (both the same size unlike the 430) after 8 or 9 pad changes the PCCB system would basically pay for itself. Or in other words the more miles you drive the less the PCCB system costs in maintance vs. steel. Because of the 430's steel pad vs. CCM pad price difference this may not be true.

    How much would it cost someone to have 4 steel rotors changed at a F-car dealer. parts & labor?

    But you sound like someone who would really appreciate the way the CCM's work under the way the car is meant to be driven, if you tried them out bet you would love them.



    You could be right, and I can't wait to try them. BTW, the front and rear pads on the iron brake 430s are the same size. And I agree at some mileage point the ceramics may be cheaper (if they meet their projections for wear), but I seldom own a Ferrari longer than 10k miles or so, usually less. And I do my own brake work...

    Gary

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Car & Driver is a terrible car magazine. Take a read at the September issue of EVO and their comparison of these two cars. The Gallardo beats the F430. The main difference being styling, which I wholeheartedly agree. They call the F430 vulgar looking. I agree 100%. The F430 Spyder has to be the worst looking car that costs over $100k. Front nose is hideous. Roll hoops on a $200k convertible?!?!?!?

    David



    What problems do you have always making such cynical comments when it comes to Ferrari?



    I guess you could say I have the same problems as EVO magazine. I have a fine appreciation for classy looking cars and not these VULGAR looking things like the F430 Spyder or gold diamond encrusted Rolex watches and things like that. Yeah, they attract a lot of attention, but personally not the kind of attention that I would want, or need. It was EVO magazine that said the F430 Spyder is VULGAR. Ask them what their problem is! I'm only quoting them because I agree 100%. In my opinion, the F430 just doesn't cut it as a convertible. Just look at the cheap roll hoops, and the silly fake humps put there to try to hide the hoops, among other styling problems. They don't belong on a $200k convertible. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Ferrari fired their design chief after coming up with such terrible designs. You might not agree with me that Ferrari has been producing some terrible looking cars lately, but then why would Ferrari fire its design chief? We can only hope that the new styling chief will bring back the purity of the F355 and produce some great looking cars once again!

    David

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Car & Driver is a terrible car magazine. Take a read at the September issue of EVO and their comparison of these two cars. The Gallardo beats the F430. The main difference being styling, which I wholeheartedly agree. They call the F430 vulgar looking. I agree 100%. The F430 Spyder has to be the worst looking car that costs over $100k. Front nose is hideous. Roll hoops on a $200k convertible?!?!?!?

    David



    What problems do you have always making such cynical comments when it comes to Ferrari?



    Ignore him, everyone else does. I'm afraid it's just bright green envy.

    Gary

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Car & Driver is a terrible car magazine. Take a read at the September issue of EVO and their comparison of these two cars. The Gallardo beats the F430. The main difference being styling, which I wholeheartedly agree. They call the F430 vulgar looking. I agree 100%. The F430 Spyder has to be the worst looking car that costs over $100k. Front nose is hideous. Roll hoops on a $200k convertible?!?!?!?

    David



    What problems do you have always making such cynical comments when it comes to Ferrari?



    I guess you could say I have the same problems as EVO magazine. I have a fine appreciation for classy looking cars and not these VULGAR looking things like the F430 Spyder or gold diamond encrusted Rolex watches and things like that. Yeah, they attract a lot of attention, but personally not the kind of attention that I would want, or need. It was EVO magazine that said the F430 Spyder is VULGAR. Ask them what their problem is! I'm only quoting them because I agree 100%. In my opinion, the F430 just doesn't cut it as a convertible. Just look at the cheap roll hoops, and the silly fake humps put there to try to hide the hoops, among other styling problems. They don't belong on a $200k convertible. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Ferrari fired their design chief after coming up with such terrible designs. You might not agree with me that Ferrari has been producing some terrible looking cars lately, but then why would Ferrari fire its design chief? We can only hope that the new styling chief will bring back the purity of the F355 and produce some great looking cars once again!

    David



    EVO:

    >>Ferrari F430 Spider
    Removing the roof from the glorious Ferrari F430 Berlinetta isn't sacrilege, it's inspired
    By John Barker/Kenny P April 2005

    The warm sun is gently baking my brow, the air- flow is barely ruffling my hair and photographer Kenny P and I are enjoying the sound of the Ferrari F430 Spider's 32-valve, eight cylinder hi-fi. It sounds like a leisurely moment encapsulating the appeal of open-top motoring but right now the F430 is hauling hard at over 150mph.


    Until now, I've taken a hard line on convertible supercars, arguing that decapitating a perfectly good coupe makes no sense... The F430 Spider blows most of my objections clean away

    I'm impressed at how utterly stable and composed the F430 is and amazed at the calmness of the air in the cockpit. Conversation would be possible if the V8 behind us wasn't howling full bore, sending the needles of the speedo and rev counter ever further round their dials.

    Until now, I've taken a hard line on convertible supercars, arguing that decapitating a perfectly good coupe makes no sense. Drop-tops are heavier because of the strengthening required to compensate for the lack of a roof, and even with extra bracing their structural integrity is inevitably reduced, compromising handling precision. On top of that, with the hood down you get blown about and hood up they're noisier.

    The F430 Spider blows most of my objections clean away in its carefully managed slipstream. Yes, it's heavier than the F430 Berlinetta, by about 85kg, and yes, with the fabric roof raised there's a rustle of wind noise from its leading edges at speed, but neither detracts appreciably from the F430 experience.

    I haven't driven the Berlinetta F430 but within a few miles I know that the Spider is an improvement over the 360, even the Challenge Stradale. Compared with the 360 Spider, the F430 claims 10 per cent greater torsional rigidity and 5 per cent greater resistance to bending for a weight penalty of about 70kg, some 45kg of which is accounted for by the difference between 360 and F430 Berlinettas. Its aerodynamics have been tuned to emulate those of the coupe as closely as possible, resulting in greater stabilising downforce at speed, hood up or down.

    Performance is on a par with the regular F430 too, with a 0-62mph time of 4.1sec, just a tenth down, and a top speed of 'over 193mph' compared with 'over 196mph'. These figures illustrate how effective the wind tunnel work has been and what an absolute corker of an engine the new 4.3-litre V8 is. Like the old 3.6, the new engine is highly tuned and high-revving, making 112bhp per litre and developing its 483bhp at 8500rpm, with 343lb ft at 5250rpm.
    It's on display under a glass cover on the flat rear deck of the Spider, like some expensive novelty coffee table. Personally, I feel that the Spider looks busier and much less cohesive than the Berlinetta, the pronounced wing-top air-scoops standing proud and the high, chunky tail being more prominent. The fabric hood features vestigial buttresses and a plastic rear window and folds itself in half and disappears beneath the double-bubble hard tonneau in 20 seconds. A clear polycarbonate screen fills the gap between the steel roll hoops and contributes greatly to the stillness of the air in the cockpit at speed.

    There's no question that the F430 performs much more vigorously than the 360, its more generous delivery apparent right from the off. It's much less languid over the first couple of thousand rpm and even in sixth will pull with urgency from 1500rpm. The sound is wonderful and much more readily appreciated in the Spider.

    At low revs the note is deeper and more engaging than the 360's, starting as a smooth, fruity chug. Just before 4000rpm the note softens and fades and then resumes at 4500rpm when there's a distinct kick and ramping up of the torque. From here the engine really starts to pile on the pace, its bark becoming ever-more manic until at 7000rpm there's another kick and the V8 wails gloriously to the redline. To hear and feel this engine work its way from tickover to the limiter in fourth gear is a thrill I doubt you'd ever tire of.

    There's more to the F430 than a stunning engine, though. Immediately impressive is the ride quality. The adjustable dampers have three settings and around town the Spider is supple and absorbent, rounding off the worst pocks and ridges with aplomb. There's barely a hint of steering wheel shudder or rear-view mirror shake, suggesting near-coupe levels of structural rigidity.

    Like the Berlinetta, the Spider has the steering-wheel-mounted 'manettino', a little red anodised toggle switch that gives access to five distinct dynamic settings. It adjusts not only damper stiffness and the shift time of the F1 gearbox, but also the threshold at which the traction and stability control system intervenes and the characteristics of the electronically managed, hydraulically actuated E-Diff.
    I'd love to describe how each setting of the manettino affects the Spider's behaviour but sadly the test route was generally dire, offering few chances to explore the dynamics. However, what was readily gleaned was that even in the standard setting the Spider is wonderfully composed, alert and grippy. Turn-in is sharp and clean without a hint of understeer and the steering is chunkily weighted, accurate and communicative. The Spider feels beautifully balanced and poised mid-corner and you have to be quite aggressive with the throttle to rouse the interest of the stability control system. It all feels very natural, almost effortless.

    The structure feels so torsionally stiff that you can probably take it as read that at the limit the Spider handles with all the alacrity of the Berlinetta. Select the Sport or Race mode and you have a sharper car beneath you and a faster gearshift at your fingertips. Hold the throttle flat and there's a thump as the next gear goes home but this latest iteration of the F1 system is the most polished I've yet encountered.

    The question isn't why you would want the Spider version of the F430 but why you wouldn't. Any dynamic degradation must be very small indeed, while you get to enjoy the sound of that brilliant new V8 in all its glory. As far as I can see the only objections are that the Spider is less handsome and costs an extra &#898;Pounds10K. Ferrari is predicting that 55 per cent of F430s sold will be Spiders. I reckon that might be an underestimate. <<
    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/55711/ferrari_f430_spider.html

    Another EVO test although not as glowing:
    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargroup...430_spider.html


    Maybe I'm wrong but somehow I just don't buy your position that your comments about the 430 Spider are just part of your position where you're hoping Ferrari makes a better looking convertible. It's part of something else, what, I dun no.

    Nice shot of the Gallardo:

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Gary(SF) said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Car & Driver is a terrible car magazine. Take a read at the September issue of EVO and their comparison of these two cars. The Gallardo beats the F430. The main difference being styling, which I wholeheartedly agree. They call the F430 vulgar looking. I agree 100%. The F430 Spyder has to be the worst looking car that costs over $100k. Front nose is hideous. Roll hoops on a $200k convertible?!?!?!?

    David



    What problems do you have always making such cynical comments when it comes to Ferrari?



    Ignore him, everyone else does. I'm afraid it's just bright green envy.

    Gary



    I'll try in the future. Sometimes it's hard with those morons.

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Car & Driver is a terrible car magazine. Take a read at the September issue of EVO and their comparison of these two cars. The Gallardo beats the F430. The main difference being styling, which I wholeheartedly agree. They call the F430 vulgar looking. I agree 100%. The F430 Spyder has to be the worst looking car that costs over $100k. Front nose is hideous. Roll hoops on a $200k convertible?!?!?!?

    David



    What problems do you have always making such cynical comments when it comes to Ferrari?



    I guess you could say I have the same problems as EVO magazine. I have a fine appreciation for classy looking cars and not these VULGAR looking things like the F430 Spyder or gold diamond encrusted Rolex watches and things like that. Yeah, they attract a lot of attention, but personally not the kind of attention that I would want, or need. It was EVO magazine that said the F430 Spyder is VULGAR. Ask them what their problem is! I'm only quoting them because I agree 100%. In my opinion, the F430 just doesn't cut it as a convertible. Just look at the cheap roll hoops, and the silly fake humps put there to try to hide the hoops, among other styling problems. They don't belong on a $200k convertible. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Ferrari fired their design chief after coming up with such terrible designs. You might not agree with me that Ferrari has been producing some terrible looking cars lately, but then why would Ferrari fire its design chief? We can only hope that the new styling chief will bring back the purity of the F355 and produce some great looking cars once again!

    David



    EVO:

    >>Ferrari F430 Spider
    Removing the roof from the glorious Ferrari F430 Berlinetta isn't sacrilege, it's inspired
    By John Barker/Kenny P April 2005

    The warm sun is gently baking my brow, the air- flow is barely ruffling my hair and photographer Kenny P and I are enjoying the sound of the Ferrari F430 Spider's 32-valve, eight cylinder hi-fi. It sounds like a leisurely moment encapsulating the appeal of open-top motoring but right now the F430 is hauling hard at over 150mph.


    Until now, I've taken a hard line on convertible supercars, arguing that decapitating a perfectly good coupe makes no sense... The F430 Spider blows most of my objections clean away

    I'm impressed at how utterly stable and composed the F430 is and amazed at the calmness of the air in the cockpit. Conversation would be possible if the V8 behind us wasn't howling full bore, sending the needles of the speedo and rev counter ever further round their dials.

    Until now, I've taken a hard line on convertible supercars, arguing that decapitating a perfectly good coupe makes no sense. Drop-tops are heavier because of the strengthening required to compensate for the lack of a roof, and even with extra bracing their structural integrity is inevitably reduced, compromising handling precision. On top of that, with the hood down you get blown about and hood up they're noisier.

    The F430 Spider blows most of my objections clean away in its carefully managed slipstream. Yes, it's heavier than the F430 Berlinetta, by about 85kg, and yes, with the fabric roof raised there's a rustle of wind noise from its leading edges at speed, but neither detracts appreciably from the F430 experience.

    I haven't driven the Berlinetta F430 but within a few miles I know that the Spider is an improvement over the 360, even the Challenge Stradale. Compared with the 360 Spider, the F430 claims 10 per cent greater torsional rigidity and 5 per cent greater resistance to bending for a weight penalty of about 70kg, some 45kg of which is accounted for by the difference between 360 and F430 Berlinettas. Its aerodynamics have been tuned to emulate those of the coupe as closely as possible, resulting in greater stabilising downforce at speed, hood up or down.

    Performance is on a par with the regular F430 too, with a 0-62mph time of 4.1sec, just a tenth down, and a top speed of 'over 193mph' compared with 'over 196mph'. These figures illustrate how effective the wind tunnel work has been and what an absolute corker of an engine the new 4.3-litre V8 is. Like the old 3.6, the new engine is highly tuned and high-revving, making 112bhp per litre and developing its 483bhp at 8500rpm, with 343lb ft at 5250rpm.
    It's on display under a glass cover on the flat rear deck of the Spider, like some expensive novelty coffee table. Personally, I feel that the Spider looks busier and much less cohesive than the Berlinetta, the pronounced wing-top air-scoops standing proud and the high, chunky tail being more prominent. The fabric hood features vestigial buttresses and a plastic rear window and folds itself in half and disappears beneath the double-bubble hard tonneau in 20 seconds. A clear polycarbonate screen fills the gap between the steel roll hoops and contributes greatly to the stillness of the air in the cockpit at speed.

    There's no question that the F430 performs much more vigorously than the 360, its more generous delivery apparent right from the off. It's much less languid over the first couple of thousand rpm and even in sixth will pull with urgency from 1500rpm. The sound is wonderful and much more readily appreciated in the Spider.

    At low revs the note is deeper and more engaging than the 360's, starting as a smooth, fruity chug. Just before 4000rpm the note softens and fades and then resumes at 4500rpm when there's a distinct kick and ramping up of the torque. From here the engine really starts to pile on the pace, its bark becoming ever-more manic until at 7000rpm there's another kick and the V8 wails gloriously to the redline. To hear and feel this engine work its way from tickover to the limiter in fourth gear is a thrill I doubt you'd ever tire of.

    There's more to the F430 than a stunning engine, though. Immediately impressive is the ride quality. The adjustable dampers have three settings and around town the Spider is supple and absorbent, rounding off the worst pocks and ridges with aplomb. There's barely a hint of steering wheel shudder or rear-view mirror shake, suggesting near-coupe levels of structural rigidity.

    Like the Berlinetta, the Spider has the steering-wheel-mounted 'manettino', a little red anodised toggle switch that gives access to five distinct dynamic settings. It adjusts not only damper stiffness and the shift time of the F1 gearbox, but also the threshold at which the traction and stability control system intervenes and the characteristics of the electronically managed, hydraulically actuated E-Diff.
    I'd love to describe how each setting of the manettino affects the Spider's behaviour but sadly the test route was generally dire, offering few chances to explore the dynamics. However, what was readily gleaned was that even in the standard setting the Spider is wonderfully composed, alert and grippy. Turn-in is sharp and clean without a hint of understeer and the steering is chunkily weighted, accurate and communicative. The Spider feels beautifully balanced and poised mid-corner and you have to be quite aggressive with the throttle to rouse the interest of the stability control system. It all feels very natural, almost effortless.

    The structure feels so torsionally stiff that you can probably take it as read that at the limit the Spider handles with all the alacrity of the Berlinetta. Select the Sport or Race mode and you have a sharper car beneath you and a faster gearshift at your fingertips. Hold the throttle flat and there's a thump as the next gear goes home but this latest iteration of the F1 system is the most polished I've yet encountered.

    The question isn't why you would want the Spider version of the F430 but why you wouldn't. Any dynamic degradation must be very small indeed, while you get to enjoy the sound of that brilliant new V8 in all its glory. As far as I can see the only objections are that the Spider is less handsome and costs an extra &#898;Pounds10K. Ferrari is predicting that 55 per cent of F430s sold will be Spiders. I reckon that might be an underestimate. <<
    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/55711/ferrari_f430_spider.html

    Another EVO test although not as glowing:
    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargroup...430_spider.html


    Maybe I'm wrong but somehow I just don't buy your position that your comments about the 430 Spider are just part of your position where you're hoping Ferrari makes a better looking convertible. It's part of something else, what, I dun no.

    Nice shot of the Gallardo:



    Uh...excuse me, but this thread isn't about the F430 Spyder, but the Gallardo Spyder vs. F430 Spider. That said, please read

    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargroup...430_spider.html

    And these quotes:

    "While it's wonderful to see the red crackle-finish of the Ferrari's 4.3-litre V8 on show, the roll-hoops, roof cover and humps interrupt the F430's sharp lines. The Lamborghini's design is tidier and less disruptive, even if it does deny you any glimpse of the equally impressive V10."

    "Forced with making a choice, we'd go for the Lamborghini."

    "That to our eyes the Gallardo also gets the styling nod seals the win for Sant'Agata, but by the slimmest of margins."

    Please note that my complaint with the F430 Spyder has been its styling. I'm sure it's an exciting car to drive and mechanically and technically it's excellent. Still, I personally can't see myself in a car that looks so gaudy no sooner as I can see myself wearing a gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch. If you read the print version of the September 2006 issue of EVO magazine they specifically call the F430 Spyder vulgar looking.

    I like Ferraris. Ferrari is a legendary marque. I'm just disappointed in their latest models' looks. To me they're either vulgar, or bland. So I'm glad they fired their design chief, and look forward to their new designs.

    David

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Car & Driver is a terrible car magazine. Take a read at the September issue of EVO and their comparison of these two cars. The Gallardo beats the F430. The main difference being styling, which I wholeheartedly agree. They call the F430 vulgar looking. I agree 100%. The F430 Spyder has to be the worst looking car that costs over $100k. Front nose is hideous. Roll hoops on a $200k convertible?!?!?!?

    David



    What problems do you have always making such cynical comments when it comes to Ferrari?



    I guess you could say I have the same problems as EVO magazine. I have a fine appreciation for classy looking cars and not these VULGAR looking things like the F430 Spyder or gold diamond encrusted Rolex watches and things like that. Yeah, they attract a lot of attention, but personally not the kind of attention that I would want, or need. It was EVO magazine that said the F430 Spyder is VULGAR. Ask them what their problem is! I'm only quoting them because I agree 100%. In my opinion, the F430 just doesn't cut it as a convertible. Just look at the cheap roll hoops, and the silly fake humps put there to try to hide the hoops, among other styling problems. They don't belong on a $200k convertible. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Ferrari fired their design chief after coming up with such terrible designs. You might not agree with me that Ferrari has been producing some terrible looking cars lately, but then why would Ferrari fire its design chief? We can only hope that the new styling chief will bring back the purity of the F355 and produce some great looking cars once again!

    David



    EVO:

    >>Ferrari F430 Spider
    Removing the roof from the glorious Ferrari F430 Berlinetta isn't sacrilege, it's inspired
    By John Barker/Kenny P April 2005

    The warm sun is gently baking my brow, the air- flow is barely ruffling my hair and photographer Kenny P and I are enjoying the sound of the Ferrari F430 Spider's 32-valve, eight cylinder hi-fi. It sounds like a leisurely moment encapsulating the appeal of open-top motoring but right now the F430 is hauling hard at over 150mph.


    Until now, I've taken a hard line on convertible supercars, arguing that decapitating a perfectly good coupe makes no sense... The F430 Spider blows most of my objections clean away

    I'm impressed at how utterly stable and composed the F430 is and amazed at the calmness of the air in the cockpit. Conversation would be possible if the V8 behind us wasn't howling full bore, sending the needles of the speedo and rev counter ever further round their dials.

    Until now, I've taken a hard line on convertible supercars, arguing that decapitating a perfectly good coupe makes no sense. Drop-tops are heavier because of the strengthening required to compensate for the lack of a roof, and even with extra bracing their structural integrity is inevitably reduced, compromising handling precision. On top of that, with the hood down you get blown about and hood up they're noisier.

    The F430 Spider blows most of my objections clean away in its carefully managed slipstream. Yes, it's heavier than the F430 Berlinetta, by about 85kg, and yes, with the fabric roof raised there's a rustle of wind noise from its leading edges at speed, but neither detracts appreciably from the F430 experience.

    I haven't driven the Berlinetta F430 but within a few miles I know that the Spider is an improvement over the 360, even the Challenge Stradale. Compared with the 360 Spider, the F430 claims 10 per cent greater torsional rigidity and 5 per cent greater resistance to bending for a weight penalty of about 70kg, some 45kg of which is accounted for by the difference between 360 and F430 Berlinettas. Its aerodynamics have been tuned to emulate those of the coupe as closely as possible, resulting in greater stabilising downforce at speed, hood up or down.

    Performance is on a par with the regular F430 too, with a 0-62mph time of 4.1sec, just a tenth down, and a top speed of 'over 193mph' compared with 'over 196mph'. These figures illustrate how effective the wind tunnel work has been and what an absolute corker of an engine the new 4.3-litre V8 is. Like the old 3.6, the new engine is highly tuned and high-revving, making 112bhp per litre and developing its 483bhp at 8500rpm, with 343lb ft at 5250rpm.
    It's on display under a glass cover on the flat rear deck of the Spider, like some expensive novelty coffee table. Personally, I feel that the Spider looks busier and much less cohesive than the Berlinetta, the pronounced wing-top air-scoops standing proud and the high, chunky tail being more prominent. The fabric hood features vestigial buttresses and a plastic rear window and folds itself in half and disappears beneath the double-bubble hard tonneau in 20 seconds. A clear polycarbonate screen fills the gap between the steel roll hoops and contributes greatly to the stillness of the air in the cockpit at speed.

    There's no question that the F430 performs much more vigorously than the 360, its more generous delivery apparent right from the off. It's much less languid over the first couple of thousand rpm and even in sixth will pull with urgency from 1500rpm. The sound is wonderful and much more readily appreciated in the Spider.

    At low revs the note is deeper and more engaging than the 360's, starting as a smooth, fruity chug. Just before 4000rpm the note softens and fades and then resumes at 4500rpm when there's a distinct kick and ramping up of the torque. From here the engine really starts to pile on the pace, its bark becoming ever-more manic until at 7000rpm there's another kick and the V8 wails gloriously to the redline. To hear and feel this engine work its way from tickover to the limiter in fourth gear is a thrill I doubt you'd ever tire of.

    There's more to the F430 than a stunning engine, though. Immediately impressive is the ride quality. The adjustable dampers have three settings and around town the Spider is supple and absorbent, rounding off the worst pocks and ridges with aplomb. There's barely a hint of steering wheel shudder or rear-view mirror shake, suggesting near-coupe levels of structural rigidity.

    Like the Berlinetta, the Spider has the steering-wheel-mounted 'manettino', a little red anodised toggle switch that gives access to five distinct dynamic settings. It adjusts not only damper stiffness and the shift time of the F1 gearbox, but also the threshold at which the traction and stability control system intervenes and the characteristics of the electronically managed, hydraulically actuated E-Diff.
    I'd love to describe how each setting of the manettino affects the Spider's behaviour but sadly the test route was generally dire, offering few chances to explore the dynamics. However, what was readily gleaned was that even in the standard setting the Spider is wonderfully composed, alert and grippy. Turn-in is sharp and clean without a hint of understeer and the steering is chunkily weighted, accurate and communicative. The Spider feels beautifully balanced and poised mid-corner and you have to be quite aggressive with the throttle to rouse the interest of the stability control system. It all feels very natural, almost effortless.

    The structure feels so torsionally stiff that you can probably take it as read that at the limit the Spider handles with all the alacrity of the Berlinetta. Select the Sport or Race mode and you have a sharper car beneath you and a faster gearshift at your fingertips. Hold the throttle flat and there's a thump as the next gear goes home but this latest iteration of the F1 system is the most polished I've yet encountered.

    The question isn't why you would want the Spider version of the F430 but why you wouldn't. Any dynamic degradation must be very small indeed, while you get to enjoy the sound of that brilliant new V8 in all its glory. As far as I can see the only objections are that the Spider is less handsome and costs an extra &#898;Pounds10K. Ferrari is predicting that 55 per cent of F430s sold will be Spiders. I reckon that might be an underestimate. <<
    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/55711/ferrari_f430_spider.html

    Another EVO test although not as glowing:
    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargroup...430_spider.html


    Maybe I'm wrong but somehow I just don't buy your position that your comments about the 430 Spider are just part of your position where you're hoping Ferrari makes a better looking convertible. It's part of something else, what, I dun no.

    Nice shot of the Gallardo:



    Uh...excuse me, but this thread isn't about the F430 Spyder, but the Gallardo Spyder vs. F430 Spider. That said, please read
    Huh? You're the one that was focusing on the 430 Spider and kept talking about what EVO said. I posted the 2 articles I saw on EVO, one being about the 430 Spider, the other about the 430 Spider vs. the Gallardo Spyder and posted a pic I liked of the Gallardo and somehow I'm not on topic? lol!!...............What do you mean "That said, please read" ? I was the one that posted the article.


    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargroup...430_spider.html

    And these quotes:

    "While it's wonderful to see the red crackle-finish of the Ferrari's 4.3-litre V8 on show, the roll-hoops, roof cover and humps interrupt the F430's sharp lines. The Lamborghini's design is tidier and less disruptive, even if it does deny you any glimpse of the equally impressive V10."

    "Forced with making a choice, we'd go for the Lamborghini."

    "That to our eyes the Gallardo also gets the styling nod seals the win for Sant'Agata, but by the slimmest of margins."

    Please note that my complaint with the F430 Spyder has been its styling. I'm sure it's an exciting car to drive and mechanically and technically it's excellent. Still, I personally can't see myself in a car that looks so gaudy no sooner as I can see myself wearing a gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch. If you read the print version of the September 2006 issue of EVO magazine they specifically call the F430 Spyder vulgar looking.
    Really? That's weird you mean the print version is different than the article they put on line? Weird, I get EVO I'll have to look at my September issue when I get home .................. imo though if you consider the 430 "Spyder"'s (it's 430 Spider) design "vulgar" don't see how you think the Gallardo is not, even the article above that I posted where the Gallardo won on looks w/ that author said it was very difficult to pick one over the other. And regarding looks mostly the magazine's have picked the 430 Spider just like in the article that started this subject.


    I like Ferraris. Ferrari is a legendary marque. I'm just disappointed in their latest models' looks. To me they're either vulgar, or bland. So I'm glad they fired their design chief, and look forward to their new designs.
    You're making an assumption they fired their design chief because of the way the 430 Spider looks to support your personal opinion? Not really based on any fact is it? Dun no it could have been anything, maybe the guy was sleeping w/ the bosses wife who knows. One thing is for sure the design is the absolute hottest selling Ferrari model and was sold out in the US for it's entire run before the first car was built based a lot on the design. Not too bad eh? & believe it's the only design on any model w/ a 4 year M.Y. run to have done that AFAIK anyway. So you're kinda in the very, very, small minority in terms of your opinion and probably amoungst the group of actual F-Car owners not just wanna be's you'd be in an even smaller group w/ that same opinion. You should drive one, one day, it may change the way you look at the car..................Still don't buy your supposed position that you're just a guy who used to love Ferrari, wanting a better 430 Spider design w/ no axe to grind. It's something else more personal.


    David


    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    David,
    You keep referring to this "VULGAR" comment, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see where in the EVO September 2006 issue they refer to the 430 Spider as "Vulgar". Where/what page are you seeing that?


    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Well, Gary. I think if your theory were correct then any car that can lock its brakes would stop equally fast. Disk size, number of calipers, not to mention ceramic vs iron, would make no difference as long as there is sufficient hydraulics to lock them up. I don't believe this is the case. Tire grip does play an important role, but it is not everything.

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    DJB said:
    Well, Gary. I think if your theory were correct then any car that can lock its brakes would stop equally fast. Disk size, number of calipers, not to mention ceramic vs iron, would make no difference as long as there is sufficient hydraulics to lock them up. I don't believe this is the case. Tire grip does play an important role, but it is not everything.



    No, not ANY car, it's only valid comparing the SAME cars, since obviously weight, aerodynamics, and tire type and size among other variables would change among different cars. I'm still waiting to hear what is wrong with my theory, I think it is completely valid. Any two identical cars, the only difference being the brakes, will have the same stopping distance if both systems can generate enough braking power to get into abs.

    Gary

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    David,
    You keep referring to this "VULGAR" comment, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see where in the EVO September 2006 issue they refer to the 430 Spider as "Vulgar". Where/what page are you seeing that?





    It's in the September 2006 printed version of the magazine. I distinctly remember reading it at my local Barnes & Noble.

    David

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    I think F430 spider is slightly better than Gallardo spider , i did not like the Gallardo too much under a spider design

    For coupe i'd go for Gallardo over F430 anyday, anywhere.But i have to mention that Spider is much better looking on F430 chassis(except red color )



    That is funny: I think the Gallardo really shines as a Spyder, give me the choice and I would choose a Spyder over a Spider any time, whereas I prefer the F430 as a Berlinetta.



    I agree!


    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    David,
    You keep referring to this "VULGAR" comment, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see where in the EVO September 2006 issue they refer to the 430 Spider as "Vulgar". Where/what page are you seeing that?





    It's in the September 2006 printed version of the magazine. I distinctly remember reading it at my local Barnes & Noble.

    David




    I get EVO delivered every month and looked in my printed September 2006 issue and it's not there. Maybe you were reading another magazine in the bookstore and thought you were reading EVO/ It's probably just an innocent mistake on your part.

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    David,
    You keep referring to this "VULGAR" comment, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see where in the EVO September 2006 issue they refer to the 430 Spider as "Vulgar". Where/what page are you seeing that?





    It's in the September 2006 printed version of the magazine. I distinctly remember reading it at my local Barnes & Noble.

    David




    I get EVO delivered every month and looked in my printed September 2006 issue and it's not there. Maybe you were reading another magazine in the bookstore and thought you were reading EVO/ It's probably just an innocent mistake on your part.



    Gregg, that was a quite vulgar comment!

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    David,
    You keep referring to this "VULGAR" comment, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see where in the EVO September 2006 issue they refer to the 430 Spider as "Vulgar". Where/what page are you seeing that?





    It's in the September 2006 printed version of the magazine. I distinctly remember reading it at my local Barnes & Noble.

    David




    I get EVO delivered every month and looked in my printed September 2006 issue and it's not there. Maybe you were reading another magazine in the bookstore and thought you were reading EVO/ It's probably just an innocent mistake on your part.



    Gregg, that was a quite vulgar comment!




    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    I think F430 spider is slightly better than Gallardo spider , i did not like the Gallardo too much under a spider design

    For coupe i'd go for Gallardo over F430 anyday, anywhere.But i have to mention that Spider is much better looking on F430 chassis(except red color )



    That is funny: I think the Gallardo really shines as a Spyder, give me the choice and I would choose a Spyder over a Spider any time, whereas I prefer the F430 as a Berlinetta.



    Yes I agree. It's amazing how something like the cheap looking roll hoops can ruin a car's lines. Ferrari tried to cover up this mistake with the weird after-market looking humps but that only makes the car look worse. Take a look at the Lambo Gallardo Spyder, Bentley GTC, Mercedes SL550 for how an expensive convertible should look. No roll bars. No humps. Only "cheap" convertibles like Miata, Boxster, Audi TT have roll bars. I guarantee you the F430 replacement convertible will not have roll bars. Thank god Ferrari's design chief was fired.

    David

    Re: Gallardo Spyder vs F430 Spider

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    David,
    You keep referring to this "VULGAR" comment, maybe I'm going blind but I don't see where in the EVO September 2006 issue they refer to the 430 Spider as "Vulgar". Where/what page are you seeing that?





    It's in the September 2006 printed version of the magazine. I distinctly remember reading it at my local Barnes & Noble.

    David




    I get EVO delivered every month and looked in my printed September 2006 issue and it's not there. Maybe you were reading another magazine in the bookstore and thought you were reading EVO/ It's probably just an innocent mistake on your part.



    I will have to check. I could've sworn it was EVO. Also it's unlikely another magazine would've had a F430 vs. Gallardo convertibles comparison in September.

    David

     
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