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    What looks wrong about this car ?


    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Front looks too small....butt looks too big...completely out of proportion

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    it is like the car has become a Gt .... looking back at the 993 something changed with the 911 , after the 996 change it lost something that we will not get back . I love the 997 but there is something lost now with this car that happened with the evolution and it has kind of become a different car . I think this is why the Ferrari with its 430 has become so popular . As it has changed over the years it has still stayed a raw sports car where the 911 has become something new .......



    In this photo of a 993 it looked out of proportion also but something has really changed about the overall impression of the car , kind of like the 997 is more civilized and tame looking than the pre 996 911's

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    it is like the car has become a Gt .... looking back at the 993 something changed with the 911 , after the 996 change it lost something that we will not get back . I love the 997 but there is something lost now with this car that happened with the evolution and it has kind of become a different car . I think this is why the Ferrari with its 430 has become so popular . As it has changed over the years it has still stayed a raw sports car where the 911 has become something new .......



    In this photo of a 993 it looked out of proportion also but something has really changed about the overall impression of the car , kind of like the 997 is more civilized and tame looking than the pre 996 911's



    The C4S needs Turbo optics. The standard 996 & 997 Carreras simply look wimpy and that doesn't go well with a big butt.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    There's a childseat in the back and a handicap-parking sticker in the windshield

    This is exactly what I was trying to describe in my "C2-C4S comparison pictures" post.
    Viewed from the side the C4 hump over the rear wheel looks out of proportion with the rest of the car. The flow of the lines are interrupted and the yin is smaller than the yang, if you know what I mean

    A quick comparison:

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    temm you are too much
    Quote:
    There's a childseat in the back and a handicap-parking sticker in the windshield



    I guess that says it all .......... I remember the days when I would pass another Porsche and they would flash their lights at me , things changed after the 996 the car now has a completely new group of buyers now that it has all of the comfort improvements , your observation says it all !
    I guess that is why they are #1 when it comes to profit ... Porsche has done to sports cars what Starbucks did to coffee . Brilliant

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    I agree that the 997 has more "GT features" when compared to the 993, but it is still a valid sportscar. In fact, from a numbers standpoint the 997 is a more capable vehicle. Those that want a more focused, visceral experience should consider the GT3 IMO.

    I kind of like the additional convenience of the garage door opener, rain sensor, etc. Since these things are subtly integrated into the cars function they don't detract from its sportscar persona.

    I do have some issues with Porsche however:
    1- I think the -20mm suspension should be available in the US; not everyone wants an electronic suspension and choice benefits all customers.
    2- Charging extra for factory delivery seems like pure opportunism...IMO this should be encouraged by Porsche, not discouraged.
    3- There needs to be more aggressive mid engine cars from Porsche (that don't cost $440K)

    But overall I agree with you, certain facets of the 997 are "softer" than two generations ago.

    mcdelaug

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:
    I agree that the 997 has more "GT features" when compared to the 993, but it is still a valid sportscar. In fact, from a numbers standpoint the 997 is a more capable vehicle. Those that want a more focused, visceral experience should consider the GT3 IMO.

    I kind of like the additional convenience of the garage door opener, rain sensor, etc. Since these things are subtly integrated into the cars function they don't detract from its sportscar persona.

    I do have some issues with Porsche however:
    1- I think the -20mm suspension should be available in the US; not everyone wants an electronic suspension and choice benefits all customers.
    2- Charging extra for factory delivery seems like pure opportunism...IMO this should be encouraged by Porsche, not discouraged.
    3- There needs to be more aggressive mid engine cars from Porsche (that don't cost $440K)

    But overall I agree with you, certain facets of the 997 are "softer" than two generations ago.

    mcdelaug




    I agree with that.

    I owned a '96 993 C2 prior to buying my 997S. She was beautiful, and I preferred her styling and interior to the 996. However, the 997 corrected everything I missed or disliked in the 996, and the 997 looks far more contemporary and modern than the 993. The 997 makes the 993 look like the OLD CAR that it really was. Classic, but played-out. You can only hang onto a basic tub for so long, until you look like Lotus did with the Esprit, plopping face-lift after face-lift onto the same poor old lady. Time to move into the 20th century, and to appreciate the 993 for what it was. If we had the 993 style today, but with modern underpinnings, we'd be not a whole lot different than the guys tooling around in fuel injected 6-speed IRS-equipped Cobra kit cars. Nostalgia is fine, but it's not what a cutting-edge sports car manufacturer should be putting on the showroom floor.

    The new Ford Mustang does a BRILLIANT job in reflecting its past, while looking thoroughly modern. I believe that the 997 does an equally good job in this respect. To wish it looked like a 993 is to be a bit stuck on an old style. Pretend the 993 never existed, and then you can look at the 997 with a proper perspective and without embedded bias.

    If you want a car that looks like the 993, buy one, they're fairly reasonable. If Porsche plopped a 993 twin on the showroom floor, sales would plummet. There's something about buying a new car. You want it to look new and contemporary. It can draw its inspiration from past designs, and be a proper evolution, but it better not look like a warmed-over 40 year old car. That's always the indicator of a car company that's about to go belly-up. They can't afford new tooling, so they keep freshening the old carcass until people don't want it, because all the other manufacturers have moved so far ahead. It happened to Packard, Studebaker, American Motors, etc...

    The 997 and the Mustang and the new Astons (as just a few examples), IMHO, are all fantastic evolutions of classic lines and designs, but that look so fresh that they almost look like concept cars. That is a fantastic aaccomplishment, when you achieve both nostalgia and modern edge vitality, simultaneously.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    ouuuch ,this is exactly the kind of thread that attracts nick from a million miles away.. i am expecting a nuclear nick post any second now....

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Not to defuse the thread but: nothing's wrong with it! Like when we were 20 compared to today. It has evolved. Like time marches on. The nice thing is we can actually compare it so beautifully and understand the consistent evolution of the engineering and design. (not a nightmare like a new MY Chevy Impala body bolted onto last year's Chevy Nova chassis).

    Like our baby pictures, the originals are most beautiful.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:

    The new Ford Mustang does a BRILLIANT job in reflecting its past, while looking thoroughly modern. I believe that the 997 does an equally good job in this respect.



    I dunno about this, there's something up here. I'm wondering about the Mustang. When I first saw the latest reiteration I welcomed it (fond memories of my dad's 1965 (?) 'stang in the driveway). Gradually, and I'm not sure about this, I'm starting to see the new one and "oh, that's OLD looking" thoughts come to my head." Weird. Ford may have messed up. It's too close to the original. Porsche has done it "flawlessly." Just speculating... .

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:

    The new Ford Mustang does a BRILLIANT job in reflecting its past, while looking thoroughly modern. I believe that the 997 does an equally good job in this respect.



    I dunno about this, there's something up here. I'm wondering about the Mustang. When I first saw the latest reiteration I welcomed it (fond memories of my dad's 1965 (?) 'stang in the driveway). Gradually, and I'm not sure about this, I'm starting to see the new one and "oh, that's OLD looking" thoughts come to my head." Weird. Ford may have messed up. It's too close to the original. Porsche has done it "flawlessly." Just speculating... .


    I agree MMD... when I first saw the new 'stang, I was mesmerized.. thought, WOW, what a flashback, reminds me of my '67 stang when I was a teenager, absolutely beautiful... and as time has passed, and I start to see them all over the road, I find myself less enthralled with them.. a nice looking car, but it just screams "retro" a little too loudly for me.. Ford did a nice job, but IMHO a more subtle retro look was in order. It really looks like they took the front end of a '67 stang, and rear end of a '69 or '70 Mach I and massaged them into a modern sports car. Just my humble opinion, but I agree with MMD

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    the child seat

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    As an owner of a 997 and previous owner of a 996 and a 993 I think that the 997 front is the part that is weak in the design, the front just doesn't look muscular and aggressive enough. Look at a pic of a 996 Turbo and the front looks more muscular, the front fenders have a bulge that looks more menacing IMO.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    I also was impressed with the Pony car, reminiscing the past. However the more I see them on the streets the cheesier they looked. Now the Saleen is a better looking car and sounds gr8 too but drive them all you have is torque and power and nothing else. I guess that's what a good hot rod is all about??

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    The 997 seems to look better the more I see it (more better )! I think it's a design that will hold up very well over time!

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    I like the Mustang, way way better than the previous Mustang. I applaud Ford for doing something daring.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    I agree- great looking!

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    are they putting 18" wheels on a C4 ? ...... that may be why this shot looks strange .

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    There's a very simple reason why the picture looks odd: FOCAL LENGHT.
    The picture is shot with a long lens, which compresses the perspective and tricks the brain, used to a 'normal' perspective.
    Tale a look at the wheels, for example. The front wheel appears larger than the back one.
    Same thing in this pic: http://www.rennteam.com/uploads/158723-dauto9.jpg


    As for the other issue, i said it before: the 997 is what the 996 should've been. Perfect evolution of the 911 concept.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    You guys are just used to seeing the new Mustang now, that's all.

    Remember how "fresh" the 350Z looked when it came out? Now it's still interesting to look at, but less "mesmerizing".

    Also, my other significant point is that I think the new Mustang looks just like what the Mustang WOULD and SHOULD look like today, if Ford had simply continued to evolve the original design, instead of completely abandoning it, and then revisiting it 35 years later. THAT'S why you guys think it's so damn retro. It's because Ford had lost their original design theme and roots on that car, so drastically. The act of getting it reigned back in tricks you into thinking "retro", when it's actually 100% EVO, you've just got to imagine what would have happened if the designers at Ford had been allowed to do exactly what Porsche did with the 911. Take the original home-run work-of-art iconic design, and tastefully/appropriately evolve it through the decades to keep it modern-looking, and modern-packaged.

    If Porsche had gone "off the plantation" with the 911 styling in the 70's, and made it look like a 3-box Fiat, and then they came around in 2005 and introduced the current 997 we have, cold-turkey, you would be rejoicing, and car nuts who never really cared for Porsche anyhow would be saying.......

    "I dunno about this, there's something up here. I'm wondering about the 911. When I first saw the latest reiteration I welcomed it (fond memories of my dad's 1965 (?) 911 in the driveway). Gradually, and I'm not sure about this, I'm starting to see the new one and "oh, that's OLD looking" thoughts come to my head." Weird. Porsche may have messed up. It's too close to the original. Ford has done it "flawlessly" with the Mustang. Just speculating... .


    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    C4 comes with 18" standard, 19s are an option.
    C4S comes with 19s.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    C4 comes with 18" standard,


    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    everything looks normal to me.
    is this a trick question???

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    my other significant point is that I think the new Mustang looks just like what the Mustang WOULD and SHOULD look like today, if Ford had simply continued to evolve the original design, instead of completely abandoning it, and then revisiting it 35 years later. THAT'S why you guys think it's so damn retro. It's because Ford had lost their original design theme and roots on that car, so drastically. The act of getting it reigned back in tricks you into thinking "retro", when it's actually 100% EVO,




    That's a good point; but I have a different take. They screwed up. The public consciousness is forced to think of the new Mustang as a true evolution when in fact it's a blast from the past. Just plopped down into the car scene.

    IOW, they hoped to "contemporize" the car (and make profits from our love of past classic mustangs) but goofed and are insted asking the car buying public (a public which is different from those of us who love the old style mustangs) to buy the old style car because they broke the chain in a "natural" evolution in the public's mind.

    I dunno, just wondering. Will be interesting to see if the car is a success or a flop, saleswise.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    I'm betting success! I see a lot of them around: older and young folks driving them.

    For that price range, I believe it's hard to beat the style, heritage and performance. It's a winner, IMO!

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    Fred 993C4S said:
    As an owner of a 997 and previous owner of a 996 and a 993 I think that the 997 front is the part that is weak in the design, the front just doesn't look muscular and aggressive enough. Look at a pic of a 996 Turbo and the front looks more muscular, the front fenders have a bulge that looks more menacing IMO.



    That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. The front end is just too subdued. When the 997 was first introduced, I thought the front end looked like a new VW Bug: kinda wimpy and girly. Now, I think it also looks somewhat plain and ordinary. I would like to see a more aggresive look.

    Re: What looks wrong about this car ?

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    Quote:
    Fred 993C4S said:
    As an owner of a 997 and previous owner of a 996 and a 993 I think that the 997 front is the part that is weak in the design, the front just doesn't look muscular and aggressive enough. Look at a pic of a 996 Turbo and the front looks more muscular, the front fenders have a bulge that looks more menacing IMO.



    That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. The front end is just too subdued. When the 997 was first introduced, I thought the front end looked like a new VW Bug: kinda wimpy and girly. Now, I think it also looks somewhat plain and ordinary. I would like to see a more aggresive look.



    You can buy those mucho macho aero kits and put wings on it too.

    I probably wouldn't buy the P-car if it were any less "girly and wimpy" as you call it.

    I don't want to drive an obviously aggressive and menacing car to attract attention and psych out other drivers on public roads; I leave that to Dodge Ram pickup trucks and Corvettes.


     
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