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    BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    From m5board.com:

    Quote from the official press release:

    This car is a far-reaching concept on an appealing subject: the BMW Concept M5. Such a car could undoubtedly serve as a stimulus and offer solutions for a future series-production vehicle.

    ...producing around 500 bhp (368 kW) and a maximum torque of at least 500 Nm

    Engineers at BMW M envisage the car accelerating from 0 to 100 km/h (0 to 62 mph) over the classic distance in well under 5 seconds, the 200 km/h mark being reached in just 13 seconds.

    BMW M engineers would not focus on sheer torque alone, but first and foremost on engine power, a sign of effective utilisation of the undoubtedly very substantial performance potential that is available.

    Thanks to a superior gearbox solution, the driver can benefit from a completely new 7-speed SMG, a rapid manual gear-shift and, if required, comfortable cruising.

    BMW M engineers aspired to achieve the best power-to-weight ratio in this market segment, thereby fully utilising their abundant experience in suspension design.

    In addition to a specially tuned Dynamic Stability Control (DSC), a variable M-type limited-slip differential, which we are already familiar with from the BMW M3, ensures optimum driving behaviour in all situations.

    The 91/2 inch light-alloy rear wheels, manufactured especially for the
    BMW Concept M5, boast specially designed, extra wide 285/35 ZR 19 tyres. At the front there are 255/40 ZR 19 tyres on 81/2 inch wheels, controlled by a newly designed Servotronic steering which is fitted as standard. A reinforced breaking system developed especially for the BMW Concept M5 enables the driver to fully control the engine's exceptional performance.

    Needless to say, the BMW Concept M5 also offers scores of ideas for equipping the car with particularly exclusive and sporty options. Without going into detail right now, it can be said that the special solutions required to satisfy the demanding customer's preferences in this particular market segment have been realised.

    ...go on sale during the course of the year 2004.

    T

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Wow is all I can say...

    T

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    E 55 AMG owners better take a close look at this picture

    T

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Thanks for the pics Temm,
    Very nice car!
    7 Speed SMG2! Great!
    Looks like it is a sportier interpretation than the E55.
    Merc must be p*ssed off a bit...

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    It will definitely be more sporty than the Merc, according to the BMW pressrelease it wil have the best power-to-weight ratio in its market segment.

    One more pic:

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Last one

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Lightest in its class,
    atmospheric/non-aspirated V10 engine,
    best power-to-weight,
    best tranny (7-speed sequential)
    Viscous differential and as usual the sportiest chasis/suspension setup of the class...
    Amazing! this is going to be even a bigger hit than the previous M5 and the absolute refference in the "sport"sedan class this time around.

    The looks... well, the 5-series does look better in person than in pics (unlike the 6-series ) but its still not its strongest asset, though the rear shot looks really menacing, and the wheels are spectacular.

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Quote:
    the 200 km/h mark being reached in just 13 seconds.




    This appears somehow unlikely. Torque is much lower than that found in comparable AMG models.

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    I wonder what they mean by this:

    "Needless to say, the BMW Concept M5 also offers scores of ideas for equipping the car with particularly exclusive and sporty options. Without going into detail right now, it can be said that the special solutions required to satisfy the demanding customer's preferences in this particular market segment have been realised"

    Can you order it with your own F1 driver perhaps?

    T

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Front and rear are looking good but the side shot is terrible, to many things going on. I'm sure it'll be a great performing car, but it's still not the best looking in its class. Notice how they never include interior photos!

    And I hope they use the paddles from the M3 rather than the Z4 for the SMG. What are they thinking?

    Im really not all that into the new M5..

    now. Quite disapointed that BMW took so much time in getting the V-10 to make just 500bhp, thats old new now. Consider me an all out Merc fan. J/K! But yes I am disapointed with the new M5.

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    The pressrelease says "around" 500 bhp. Call me an optimist, but I think the final output will be somewhat higher, say around 520-530 bhp.

    And since the M5 will be several hundred kilos lighter than the E 55 it will blow it away anyway...

    T

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Can anyone recommend an honest US BMW dealer who would not screw me over the premium? It's a challenge in itself to purchase a nice car in Southern California.

    I would really appreciate your input or private message me please, if necessary. Thank you.

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Yes, that is soo true. I wish I could help you out, but I had to raise hell in order to get what I wanted, I'll never do that again.

    Whatever you do don't buy first year production, give it some time and try using the "build your own" feature on bmwusa.com, that helps with getting the price you want, or at least on my X5 it did?

    In the Socal area try New Century BMW, there is Bob Smith out in Calabasas(brand new location). There is Rusnak in T.O., also try the one in New Port Beach, I have had some freinds say pretty good stuff about them.

    Keep me posted with what you find out?

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Strangely enough, just saw a test mule for an M5 tonight near my home, which is a part of their usual test route. Light brown M5 with bottom half covered in black tapings, 4 pipes and same wheel featured in the photo above was following a heavily disguised X3 which sounded more like a V8. Interesting... Rolled down the window to hear that glorious V10 of the M5, but in vain. I could not hear anything. Very very quiet car.

    Re: BMW Concept M5, quotes from the official press release!

    Quote:
    Jean said:
    Very very quiet car.



    Thats incredibly dissappointing!

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Quote:
    M5er said:
    now. Quite disapointed that BMW took so much time in getting the V-10 to make just 500bhp, thats old new now. Consider me an all out Merc fan. J/K! But yes I am disapointed with the new M5.



    Disappointed? You can't be serious. 0-125 mph in 13 seconds, more than 1.6 seconds faster than the E55 AMG. That's impressive! The "old" GT2 with 462 HP had almost the same 0-125 mph acceleration time (12.6 sec.).
    Unfortunately BMW will limit the top speed at 250 kph but a family friend who is a large BMW dealer told me that there are lots of discussions going on right now at M department to offer an optional speed upgrade to 300 kph for extra money (not US!). I'm very impressed with the new M5, especially since I think driving dynamics will be much better than with the E55, especially due to the lower weight.
    Of course Mercedes will counter attack sooner or later with their rumored 540-560 HP E55 but til then, the M5 will be the new (sedan) king of the road. I'm curious to see how the Porsche 4-door sedan handles the competition, 500 HP are a minimum power figure I guess. Not to talk about a much lower weight (1600-1650 kg are in the word right now), not much for a full size 4-door sedan.

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Let me rephrase this, I didn't like the hp figure I read which was "500", but now I understand that this may change? Either way I think the E60 M5 will still end up in my driveway sometime next year.

    It's my fault that Im dissapointed in the HP figure, I bought into the hype. 0 - 125 in 13 seconds is great!!! But how often living here in the U.S. will I be able to experience that??? Not often, especially not in SoCal. But none the less it's great for trash talking. If I lived in Deutschland I could probably enjoy this on somewhat of a daily basis, but thats just not something even worth thinking about( ) I didn't like the looks at first either, but within a matter of days it grew on me, and now, I LUV IT!

    Sure MB will attack with 540 - 560 hp, but the question is, this time around will their cars be able to handle it. Shoe horning a big bore V-8 with an ish load of hp isn't going to cut it . They need to work more on precise steering, and better pedal feel when braking(so you don't feel like your stepping on wood). Not that any of us will ever push an AMG Benz to this extent, but without all the fine electronics that overwhelm MB cars (Bimmers too)the E55 is simply lost. BMW M on the other hand takes plenty of time developing(more like an extra 2 years after core model line up is launched) their cars to make sure that they have precise handaling and fine chassis tuning to keep up with the very best. Maybe Im biased, but I think if you do your research you just might come to the same conclusion. Maybe it just bugs me how many Benz AMG's I see on a daily basis, or maybe the fact that their engines are so redundant- it just seems so easy to take one powerful engine and stick it into a whole family of cars that all wear the same badge and call them super "stars".

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    My prediction is the new M5 will go through the gears like a 360M. Think about it, is the new M5 really going to undercut the E55 by 200kgs? What have they used C.F.?

    And with a 5.0 V10 with only 500Nm probably at higher revs, what you need is maximum gears and a quick final axle ratio...This is how the 3.6 V8 Modena manages to do the 0-60 run in 4.5 seconds, and 100mph in 10ish seconds...yet with only 275lb/ft of torque. So the top speed of the M5 will be about 170-18-ish mph if not 190mph even. The E55 has a taller final drive, and only 5 gears but still manages to blow most things off of the road...

    Would you really want such a quick geared car with a 9000rpm as a daily driver? How annoying it must be, and tiresome. And I can't see anyone having an M5 as there weekend fun car?

    There's rumours of the 55K range being completely replaced by a 6.3 NA V8 range. Word at AMG is, the new engine is already developing a "reliable 500bhp on the engine dyno". Now, how can they squeeze another 50-60hp out of that? I seriously don't want a V8 of this configuration redlining at 8000rpm, the SLR redlines at 7000rpm, and the sound of the V8 is a bit like a CDI diesel at higher revs, from inside, I'm not kidding.

    The only response from AMG should be to Twin turbo this new V8, I love low down torque, coupled with the tiptronic system, you can shift at 2000rpm for every gear, and still blow most cars on the road.

    Alas, the new M5 will be the king, journalists are NEVER kind to Mercedes, even if they are, its usually the unknown ones giving personal opinions on an E500, (still a great car). I can see AMS and R & T, C & D, Autocar all proclaiming the new M5 beats E55 in EVERY department...


    It was fun while it lasted...

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    Would you really want such a quick geared car with a 9000rpm as a daily driver? How annoying it must be, and tiresome.



    Interesting question.

    That's exactly what I thought was going to be the case with the old Audi Sport Quattro. Its motor was very peaky, with a torque curve that looked like most horsepower curves do. Therefore, the horsepower curve looked more like a spike, peaked at high RPM, than a curve. I anticipated that the car would be impossible to drive smoothly without racing through the gears.

    I couldn't have been more wrong. The car was very pleasant to drive around town. If one shifted at 3,000 RPM, the car was very docile, hardly more remarkable than a 2 liter economy motor. If one wanted more excitement, all it took was shifting at a higher RPM.

    The amount of throttle given didn't seem to matter nearly as much as the shift point RPM. I guess this was because the car had such enormous reserves of power at high RPM, and such disappointing torque at low RPM. It allowed selection of RPM, more than gas pedal depression, as the arbiter of get-away speed. It was really easy to get used to the motor's desires on how it wanted to be driven, and felt quite natural.

    Puttering around town at low RPM is quieter, too. It allows a really Jeckle & Hyde personality to develop, all under complete control of the driver.

    From this experience, I predict the new M5 may also be unexpectedly pleasurable to drive around town, without undue stress on one's nerves.

    What do others think?

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Bilal,
    Were do you get the idea that the 5liter N/A V10 is going to lack any low end torque? Can you tell me a 5 liter car know for lacking low end torque? the new N/A V8 C55AMG maybe? the V10 Viper? the V8 645i? the V12 575M?, the V12 Murc? the V12 Vanquish? the V8 corvette?, previous M5?

    For one, low end torque lacking engines tend to have 3 things (aside for gas vs petrol): the single most important one is low displacement, then low # cilinders which is usually just a result of the low displacement, and turbochraged, such as a 2-2.5 liter 4cil engines like S2000, Impreza Sti, or even Boxster for example. I don't see how a full 5 liter engine, 10cil and atmospheric engine will lack low end torque! besides the fact that smooth and progressive power delivery have always been a trait of ///M engines.

    Secondly, it may not have the excesive gobs of torque of a supercharged engine but "sport" engines require other things such as an ability to climb fast and high along the RPM range with high engine inertias and engine speeds that a supercharged or diesel engine lacks (look at a F1 engine's torque figures and RPM range and HP delivery compared to a trailer truck's engine), thats why only Merc and Ford use superchrager really, and sportcars and race cars use atmospheric engines and turbochargers. So plenty doses torque in all the rev range are pretty much are guaranteed by a N/A 5 liter V10 (like the others mentijoned above) while still being able to exploit the sporty (and FUN!) high/peak and fast rev range that Mike described. The new M5's engine will be exactly the opposite as "annoying" and "tiresome" to drive, otherwise my 996's regular 3.4L F-6 or the M3's 3.2L L-6 must be considered simply unbearable then

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Well, the new 5 series still looks ugly!

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    I can't ague with that!

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    I'll tell you why a V10 with 5 liters will not have as much torque, simply because of the 9000 rpm redline. Not even Honda with its famous V-Tec can eliminate the low torque of a high reving engine. To get 9000 rpm your engine needs to breath lots of air which doesn't translate to good low end torque. One reason MB is using a 3 valve engine with twin sparks.

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    I think it looks great!

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    I'll tell you why a V10 with 5 liters will not have as much torque, simply because of the 9000 rpm redline. Not even Honda with its famous V-Tec can eliminate the low torque of a high reving engine. To get 9000 rpm your engine needs to breath lots of air which doesn't translate to good low end torque. One reason MB is using a 3 valve engine with twin sparks.



    While its true that to obtain good output at such high revs you need to sacrifice low end valve breathing/ output, that effect has been greatly minimized in the E60-M5 by the Bi-Vanos variable valve timing at all 4 camshafts.

    Honda's V-Tec (variable valve-"changing") does not improve torque at low end as BMW Bi-Vanos system (variable valve-"phasing") they are two different variable valve timing (VVT) systems with different aplications and results. Honda's V-tec yields more top end power while sacrifising low end output, and if you couple that with the small displacement of its engine, you get a quick high reving engine with a very high HP output per liter but short usable powerband (thats why they just recenly increased its displacement). The Bi-Vanos type OTOH, is implemented to improve torque delivery across the whole RPM range but does not give the top end output as the V-Tec's. Couple that with 5 full liters of displacement and you get plenty of low end output, probably very close to the prevous M5's lower power delivery (which is more than enough), but with a huge 9000RPM powerband.

    I can't imagine how that car is going to behave at such high engine speeds and 500HP, and a "7"-speed & "sequential" tranny that will let you play with those revs even more, but I'm a bit exceptic of BMW's claimed 9k redline until I see it though.

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    I thought Honda invented V-Tec just for that reason, that is, to improve low end torque while delivering high rpm HP. If not, they they would just do away with V-tec and just let you rev it up.

    If the M3 technology is any indication, it'll still be lacking in torque.

    Re: Im really not all that into the new M5..

    Quote:
    M5er said:
    I think it looks great!



    I saw a black one on the street the other day and I have to admit, it looked great coming towards me and passing. So did the blonde at the wheel!

    It's growing on me. I think, in a couple of years, most people will think it looks great and wonder what all the sturm und drang was back in 2004.

    Dain

    What the five should've looked like!

    Seriously, if they "M'ed" this, I just might have bought it!


    Re: What the five should've looked like!

    Now that looks terrible.

     
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