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    differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra motors

    I've heard alot of moaning about the differences between the GT3/Turbo 3.6 Dry sump motor and the carerra wet sump, or integrated dry sump motor. So I did some research. Amazing what I found. Porsche doesn't even make the Carerra Motor. It's made by a company called Kolbenshmit Pierburg. I found this out researching the difference between nicosil, and lokasil. The 3.6 GT1 inspired motor uses nicosil lined cylinders, and I wondered why the carerra didn't. It used lokasil lined cylinders, which sounded like a knock-off of the original lining material that hase been so successful in race car applications.

    And low and behold, I found out that the above mentioned subcontractor has been making two engines for porsche since 1996...the boxter mill, and the carerra mill.

    Some interesting points. All porsche boxer engines, excluding GT3/Turbo 3.6, are made by this company, and they all have the exact same exteranl dimensions. They are from the same casting. The only differences lie in the difference in cilinder stroke and bore....From what I have researched, there is no difference between a boxter engine, and a Carerra S engine, except bore and stroke.

    Most of you will find the company website interesting, and most of you will never look at your Carerra S/Boxter the same way again! What a let down.

    Here's the website.
    http://www.kspg-ag.de/index.php?fid=403&lang=3

    After reading about the entire production process, to my horror, i found out about the lokasil process by which they create they cylnder surface, "without the added weight of inserts"...they actually impregnate the inside cylinder half with preforms of a high silcone content material, to moleculary create a metal matrix composite (mmc) material, which has superior wear and oil burn characteristics, and high resistance to thermal deformation......it's .0001 mm thick..behind that layer is the same stuff your beer can is made from. Nice.

    What this means to me, is that our cylinder walls are nothing more than aluminum, and once they wear out, your entire engine will need to be replaced. And that's the truth....so don't plan on keeping your car too long, because, the engine cannot be rebuilt....ever.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra motors

    These cars are good for many many years any hundreds of thousands of miles.......more than any of us would keep them for anyway.......and it still does not detract from the fact that they are and have been one of the greatest engineered cars of our time......I still look at mine the same way.....

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra motors

    me too Nad!!!

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra motors

    The good news is that you can get a new engine for what it used to cost to hone cylinders and rebuild your old engine. Just the technological state we live in... there are benefits to it.
    People used to get their TVs and refrigerators fixed too... stuff has become disposible/replaceable at a lower cost.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    I think that is simply a sign of the times. It is easier and cheaper to simply replace the engine on the Carrera than to bother rebuilding. It was built with that in mind. I own a TT and a GT3 but it would not bother me a bit to drive the Carrera and, when the time comes, buy another engine as long as it lasts the 300,000 km that I read that Porsche expects all its engines to last under "enthusiastic" conditions.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    Then sign me up for the 300,000KM factory warranty. But I agree that the engines will last a very long time if treated well - and used frequently.

    There is a company in England that rebuilds the blocks (and the engines).

    Kolbenschmidt & Porsche go back a long way. They are OK in my book.

    It does shed more light on the 'really bad news...' post. When there is an engine failure Porsche just trades the bad engine with a remanufactured one from Kolbenschmidt and they stay out of the loop except for the dealer doing the installation. Replacing the entire car is a much bigger headache since it actually involves them in the process and hence is not a desired outcome.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    Leawood911, I've been on the factory tour at Zuffenhausen when I collected my 997S back in November. As part of that tour, they took us to see the engine assembly area. I think the more accurate way to describe what happens is that all the parts for the engine may be made for Porsche by a third party supplier but that they are then assembled by Porsche workers in the engine assembly area.

    FWIW, it's quite fascinating to see one man put an engine together. He works in a small concave work station with all sorts of parts on shelves. Once the engine is ready, it is benchtested for around 30 minutes to check it is okay and to measure power output.

    I guess therefore engine problems could either be caused by defective manufacture of parts by the third party, defective engine assembly by PAG or defects arising when the engine is married to the chassis.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    I concur with easy_rider, I was also at the factory back in May. Porsche builds there own engines in Zuffenhausen for all the Boxsters, Carreras, Turbo, GT3. It's fine that they are not actually making the castings. They don't have the space in Zuffenhausen to make all these parts. In fact most if not all of the parts on our beloved Pcars are made by 3rd parties. That's the way of the world.

    FYI, while I was in India last month I met a guy who sells machinery to companies in India that build all the brake parts for many familiar car brands. He mentioned Mercedes and BMW. He didn't know about Porsche. All the rotors and calipers are made in India and shipped to Germany for assembly.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    Exactly right Porsche is expert at designing cars, testing them, farming out the job of actually manufacturing the parts to a multitude of third party companies (usually in Germany AFAIK) and then assembling them at Zuffenhausen, Leipzig and Valmet in a 'just in time' method. Every stage of this process has been designed to cut cost and increase efficiency. It is a very impressive money making machine!

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    I believe that ATAG is close to where the 944s were built in Neckarsulm, just north of Heilbronn, and about a 30 minutes spirited drive north from Zuffenhausen.

    Keep in mind that very little is built at Porsche AG. But everything is ultimately assembled and integrated there. This is simply today's way of building cars. JIT.

    Re: differences between GT3/Turbo and Carerra moto

    Porsche is a car ASSEMBLER as opposed to a car MAKER. Actually 80% of the added value is purchased from outside supplier. Porsche is the most "de-integrated" car assembler.

    Porsche has decided to BUY rather than to MAKE most of the components. However they say they design the components and then "subcontract" it to a third party.

    I think it's no big deal if Porsche is only assembling engines that are partially made by Kolbenschmidt. Would the engine be better if Porsche would own a foundry and would do it themselves.

    Personally I don't really care if they are only doing the engineering and then assembling components.

     
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