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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla apparently has milked most of the higher spec Model 3 buyers so they are releasing the medium range $5,000 cheaper version...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    $4000 cheaper only. Not bad range though, 260 miles instead of 310 miles. 

    However, long range is no longer available without all wheel drive, which makes the cheapest long range $5000 more expensive. They even increased the pricing of some of the colors to $2k and $2.5k

    Still, I am waiting for those model 3s to reach our shores as they offer a good value for such a car. 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    They have to do that when they are barely making any money if at all even on the high spec model.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    they will try to modulate pricing till finding a wish of profit...but to when?

    the majors are almost ready....


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/23/18013080/dyson-electric-car-manufacturing-plant-singapore-2020

    Dyson to build electric car manufacturing plant in Singapore

    The company plans to unveil its ‘radically different’ EV in 2021


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

     This is it:
    839CDB8F-96A5-46B8-8FA2-73241136A40B.jpeg Carlos from Spain:

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/23/18013080/dyson-electric-car-manufacturing-plant-singapore-2020

    Dyson to build electric car manufacturing plant in Singapore

    The company plans to unveil its ‘radically different’ EV in 2021

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    boytronic:
     This is it:
    839CDB8F-96A5-46B8-8FA2-73241136A40B.jpeg Carlos from Spain:

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/23/18013080/dyson-electric-car-manufacturing-plant-singapore-2020

    Dyson to build electric car manufacturing plant in Singapore

    The company plans to unveil its ‘radically different’ EV in 2021

     

     

    Well, that sucks.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    A more positive piece about Teslas financials by ars

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/10/how-tesla-proved-cash-flow-critics-wrong/

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Some analyst thinks he found some crafty twists in the earnings but there was no follow up some possibly even journalists could not corroborate his findings.

    Tesla is not out of the woods yet and might still need to raise capital, but that kind of free cash flow makes everything much much easier if sustainable. To put it in simple terms, they don’t need to raise all new money, just replace some expiring debt. Why would someone who had bought the debt before would not do it again now that the company is way less risky?

    On another note, the solar roof mass production is now set to start next summer after over a year delay and indicated price seems to be 15% less than expected around$21/sf. Still does not make sense economically unless you look at the full 30 years shelf life but being cheap and not what Tesla is about. I am actually thinking of doing one because I think you can get a lot of the money back in resale...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    It's one quarter.

    And it's padded by the fact that Tesla refused to build any cars from the 400k+ wait list, but built fully loaded cars that actually has a profit margin so they can actually book profit instead of a loss on each new Model 3.

    The telling tale will be next quarter. Will they actually start on building the low spec cars from the deposit list or they are still building high spec ones to pad the bottomline. And will the orders for the high spec models dry up after one quarter or can be sustained. Right now, anyone can walked into a Tesla showroom and walk out with a full spec Model 3 in like 10 minutes, there is no wait and their showroom is full of stocked cars. 

    Elon had planned this from the beginning, he know the entry level model can't be built making a profit and needed the full spec cars to be built first, which he did, and with that he knows each full spec car will bring in a profit and hence his earlier claim that he will have a successful quarter and burn the shorts. 

    Would be interesting to see how Tesla book the numbers, do they count each car that left the factory as a 'sold' car even when they will be sitting in the showroom parkade, or they are actually sold cars that got registered. We know the factory had been cranking out full spec Model 3s non-stop, I can see the transports heading north on my drive south last month, every 40 minutes or so I see a fully loaded one with 7 Model 3s. 

    Now if they can sustain the green numbers for the next quarter, then it will be 2 quarters in a row that they can book profit and hence they should be ok, until the next cash burn with new factory and new models. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Agreed on the fact that the next quarter will tell a lot. You can’t cook the books indefinitely.

    Cars sold are supposed to be delivered to customers, not in transit or in a showroom. There was some analyst blurred about cars double sold but could just be a handful of cars... But one thing for sure, they are on pace to build between 350,000 and 500,000 cars next 12 months and that’s a lot of revenue to finally come in the door.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    It's one quarter.

    And it's padded by the fact that Tesla refused to build any cars from the 400k+ wait list, but built fully loaded cars that actually has a profit margin so they can actually book profit instead of a loss on each new Model 3.

    The telling tale will be next quarter. Will they actually start on building the low spec cars from the deposit list or they are still building high spec ones to pad the bottomline. And will the orders for the high spec models dry up after one quarter or can be sustained. Right now, anyone can walked into a Tesla showroom and walk out with a full spec Model 3 in like 10 minutes, there is no wait and their showroom is full of stocked cars. 

    Elon had planned this from the beginning, he know the entry level model can't be built making a profit and needed the full spec cars to be built first, which he did, and with that he knows each full spec car will bring in a profit and hence his earlier claim that he will have a successful quarter and burn the shorts. 

    Would be interesting to see how Tesla book the numbers, do they count each car that left the factory as a 'sold' car even when they will be sitting in the showroom parkade, or they are actually sold cars that got registered. We know the factory had been cranking out full spec Model 3s non-stop, I can see the transports heading north on my drive south last month, every 40 minutes or so I see a fully loaded one with 7 Model 3s. 

    Now if they can sustain the green numbers for the next quarter, then it will be 2 quarters in a row that they can book profit and hence they should be ok, until the next cash burn with new factory and new models. 

     

     

    I've refrained from any commentary on the Tesla's reported profitability for Q3 18.  I want to analysis the 10Q and not a 8K filing.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    FBI is asking for information about weekly production figures... the drama never ends. But that very negative analyst report from yesterday is nowhere to be found...

    For the ones who follow closely, one for the most vocal short on Tesla (Citron) has now turned bullish on the stock.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla drops 'Full Self-Driving' option from its configurator

     

    Elon Musk responded to the dropping of the option by tweeting that it's "Also available off menu for a week. Was causing too much confusion." It doesn't take long to realize why such an option would cause confusion for many car buyers. The package promised something that Tesla had no way to actually deliver anytime soon. Nobody has a full self-driving capable vehicle ready for the public yet, and it will most likely be a considerable amount of time before we see one.

    Now that Tesla has removed it as an option, there's no telling how long people could be waiting for the option to return, if it ever does. Buyers have paid thousands of dollars for the package since it was added in 2016, so what are they to do now? Well, sit and wait, sounds like. Some owners actually sued awhile back, alleging they were deceived into buying a feature that didn't exist.

    Tesla continues to imply that the feature is in the works, but new Tesla buyers won't be able to spec the option for the foreseeable future. Because it's still supposed to become available at some point down the road, there's no talk of possible refunds now. The deletion of the option from the website will most likely cause some worry for those who paid thousands for the ghost feature, though.

     

    Elon response: Thanks for the cash! Cya!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    FBI is asking for information about weekly production figures... the drama never ends. But that very negative analyst report from yesterday is nowhere to be found...

    For the ones who follow closely, one for the most vocal short on Tesla (Citron) has now turned bullish on the stock.

     

    Makes you wonder if Elon showed him numbers beforehand to convince him to sing the other tune.

    Pretty hard to be coincidental when he changes his tune immediately before the earning release.

    Elon needs his support to change the downward trend of the stock price.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The Q3 results are interesting, but pose a few questions that the 10-Q filing may, or may not, help to answer...

    Tesla Q3 Investor Letter - PDF link: http://ir.tesla.com/static-files/725970e6-eda5-47ab-96e1-422d4045f799

    ...a few of the unexplained financials, following the conference call...

    ...is it possible that Tesla has already peaked? Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    There are so many moving parts to these numbers and so many levers Tesla could have played with. Not until next quarter we will really know.

    https://apple.news/A1hAfxRr1RRakzVi_Jhcu0w

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    There are so many moving parts to these numbers and so many levers Tesla could have played with. Not until next quarter we will really know.

    https://apple.news/A1hAfxRr1RRakzVi_Jhcu0w

     

     

    This fanboy is too early to declare anything. 

    It's not over until the fat lady sings. Tesla still has the potential to go either way. until Tesla can deliver back to back quarters with similar numbers, then this is just a one off quarter for the time being. Like the last 2 times they managed to book a profit for a quarter, those were from trading carbon credits. 

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Quirky souped up Teslas:

     

    https://apple.news/A6BntDk2oTR-fMRzqnTrBVA


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Yeah that's my friend's car indecision


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Quirky souped up Teslas:

     

    https://apple.news/A6BntDk2oTR-fMRzqnTrBVA

    Waiting for someone to add a tuned biturbo fuel engine to the electric motor of a Tesla S... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Quirky souped up Teslas:

     

    https://apple.news/A6BntDk2oTR-fMRzqnTrBVA

    Waiting for someone to add a tuned biturbo fuel engine to the electric motor of a Tesla S... Smiley Smiley

    I’m planning to put my tuned CLS55 AMG engine in a Tesla when the used prices drop a bit. No Turbos. No electric motor. Just not sure I could live with the poor quality Tesla interior after coming from Porsches!


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Not exactly Tesla related, but some interesting information on possible new energy storage means that could help deal with the infrastructure demands of EV's in the future:

    liquidstorag.jpg

    Liquid Storage of Solar Energy

    Youtube video about it: Storing the Sun's Energy in Liquid

    Article about the UK's challenge with infrastructure and EV's: Electrifying the Future for Electric Vehicles


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Pretty impressive stuff. Video and article from Motortrend:
    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019/tesla-model-3-performance-track-mode-release-version-review/

    How Track Mode Works
    The Tesla Team November 8, 2018
    ​​​​​​​

    Electric powertrains have numerous advantages over internal combustion engines. In addition to low cost of ownership, energy efficiency, and near silence, they also offer unparalleled responsiveness. Since the introduction of Tesla Roadster in 2008, we’ve exploited the immediate availability of motor power and torque to achieve unprecedented straight-line performance, making the car’s forward acceleration a pure extension of the driver. With Track Mode, which is designed specifically for use on closed autocross circuits and racetracks, our goal was simple: use that same motor power and torque to make cornering on the track feel just as natural as forward acceleration.

    The fundamentals
    How does motor power help you corner? If you’ve ever pulled a car’s handbrake in an icy parking lot, you know that you can make a car turn with more than just the steering wheel. That’s because torque – whether accelerating or decelerating a vehicle – reduces a tire’s ability to hold the car in a turn. Apply torque to the rear wheels, and the car will rotate more in the turn (if you see a car drifting, that’s drive torque; or think about pulling that handbrake, that’s brake torque). Conversely, if you apply either kind of torque to the front wheels, this reduces a car’s ability to turn.

    By precisely controlling whether torque goes to the front or the rear wheels, Model 3’s dual motors can immediately and silently increase or decrease the car’s rotation in a corner at your request. This requires lightning fast torque control and the ability for the car to precisely regulate traction on each tire – both of which are standard features in every Tesla, but that we’ve expanded upon with Track Mode to make highly technical driving effortless.

    More than just stability
    The most exciting aspect of Track Mode is how we can change the balance of the car using just the motors – a technique that would typically be interrupted by a system known as stability control.

    Stability control is an important safety feature found in all modern passenger vehicles that applies brakes to certain tires in order to prevent your car from spinning out of control during dynamic maneuvers. The feature is designed to make a car’s behavior more predictable in emergency situations, but it also constrains a driver to a limited range of capabilities at the expense of driver authority and fast lap times. As a result, many cars have “sport” modes that reduce or even disable these safety systems in order to allow a professional driver to maximize the capability of what a car can offer.

    Instead of taking away features to enhance the experience of professionals, Track Mode adds features to make any track driver, amateur or professional, feel superhuman on a track. This is possible because with Model 3 Performance, we replaced the stability control system with our own in-house Vehicle Dynamics Controller – software developed specifically for Tesla vehicles that acts both as a stability control system and also as a performance enhancement on the track.

    More features, not fewer
    Here is a summary of many of the features we employ with Track Mode while you’re on the track:

    • Motor Torque for Rotation
      Our Vehicle Dynamics Controller constantly monitors the state of the vehicle and all of the inputs from the driver to determine the driver’s intention and affect the rotation of the car in a matter of milliseconds. Track Mode relies heavily on the front and rear motors to control the car’s rotation, and we have the ability to command a 100% torque bias. When cornering, if rotation is insufficient to the driver’s request, the system commands a rear biased torque. Conversely, when rotation is excessive, we command a front biased torque.

    • Increased Regenerative Braking
      Heavy regenerative braking may not be comfortable for day-to-day driving, but on a track, it has several key advantages. It gives the driver more authority with a single pedal, improves the endurance of the braking system, and sends more energy back into the battery, maximizing the battery’s ability to deliver large amounts of power. It also gives the Vehicle Dynamics Controller more authority to create or arrest rotation with the motors when your foot is lifted off of the accelerator pedal.

    • Track Focused Powertrain Cooling
      The high output power required for track driving generates a lot of heat, so endurance on the track requires more aggressive cooling of the powertrain. We proactively drop the temperatures of the battery and the drive units in preparation for the track and continue to cool them down in between drive sessions. We can also allow operation of the powertrain beyond typical thermal limits and increase our refrigerant system capacity by overclocking the AC compressor into higher speed ranges.

    • Enhanced Cornering Power
      We typically think of using brakes to slow down a car, but you can actually use them to make the car faster out of a corner. All Model 3s are equipped with open differentials, which send an equal amount of torque from the motors to both the left and right wheels. When cornering, the wheels on the inside of the corner have less load on them, which means they can provide less tractive force than the outside wheels. To prevent excess slip on this inside tire, we have to limit the torque for both wheels, leaving power on the table. In Track Mode, we simultaneously apply brake and motor torque to produce a net increase in tractive force while cornering. This is similar to how a limited slip differential works, except when using the brakes, the differential can be optimized for various driving conditions.

    Model 3 Performance with Track Mode integrates active controls with the vehicle’s already planted chassis and nimble, responsive steering by maximizing the driver’s authority under any condition. We do this with the same secret weapon used for 0-60 mph launches: the two motors that sit on each axle. And like most aspects of a Tesla, we’ll continue to improve and enhance Track Mode over time with future over-the-air updates.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I sorry but I dont get it, trying to put some sort of a track-mode on a Model3 is like putting sexy lingerie on a 300lbs feminazi yes 1497879697817bhauen.gif ​​​​​​ 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I have to give credits where credits is due, whether it's Tesla or not. 

    Hiring Randy to tune their car is THE BEST move Tesla has ever made in their history. Up until now, Tesla self-proclaim they are making 'sporty' cars. It's only Tesla employees and cultists that agreed with that statement. Teslas were a one dimensional machine, only go fast in a straight line sometimes.

    But they do want to be taken seriously, the original Model 3 on track is a pig, which is like every other Tesla. They have their sights set on the most successful sport sedan in it's class, the BMW 3 series. Randy was kind enough to be hired to tune their 'track' mode. Well they are still light years away from remotely challenging a 3 series, but this is a good step.

    But there are 2 sides to every story. Randy is a friend, we chatted about the Model 3 a bit earlier. On the record, he is of course saying the right thing.I admire his resolve to make the Model 3 handles better. Off the record, it's a bit more depressing for Tesla. 

    Let's just say the tuned Model 3 will be a track monster for soccer moms. It will be exciting enough for them to experience, But for serious drivers, stay away. They are not there yet. On a scale from Smart Car to Panamera Turbo S for sportiness in a sedan,  the Model 3 has just overtook a Corolla.

    Funny how Tesla turned the 3 minuses and spin them into 'positive'. 

    The heavy regenerative braking is a problem on track, not a 'feature'.It slows the car down too much on throttle lifts, perfect for track novices but bad for experienced track junkie where they use the throttle lift to not slow the car down but to subtly change the weight shift for car balance.

    They have to 'overclock' the AC system in order to cool everything, that just means they under estimate the heat output in the first place.

    Using power and brakes at the same time to mimic a limited slip diff is a waste of energy period. And cause unnecessary wear on brake pads. Same problem McLarens are having as they also runs a open diff. Brake cooking is a problem from that. 

    But the Tesla team will and already learned a lot about making a real performance car from the input of Randy, and those knowledge will only help their future products. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    They don’t need to make the model 3 handle like a 3 series. It just needs to be good enough. They already have the acceleration.They don’t need to stuff extra hardware to over cool the car for track event. Very few people care.But trying to improve the performance is a step in the right direction.

    People buy Tesla because they are a cool appliance with leading class technology and happen to be the fastest straight line cars out there. Plus they are super cool and makes non car people a way too elevate their relative aura in their social circles. They made some people send way more $$ in a car than they would have otherwise (I know many of them anecdotally) and they are the top sales volume in their segments, EV or not.

    You can try to convince yourself any way you want, but Tesla is already an enormous success, trouncing all early predictions and nay sayers. It’s stock might be overvalued but that’s another story. They will have zero issues raising money if they need to.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    They just opened a showroom right in the middle of the mall here. 

    What to say under strong white light and time to just check every possible angle...enlightened

    It is cheap, badly assembled and low quality material either on the sedan or the minivan. angry

    huge disappointment...in every possible aspect of what you can look into a car. I completely get the usual non car guy will be interested...the leather of the seat was gone...the paint is a disaster, the panel fittings and on and on. I didn’t dare to ask price, anything would have been insulting. 

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    There is no leather in Tesla cars...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    To find out myself I ordered a Model S P100D. Pickup is next Friday ... they say indecision


     
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