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    Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Part 1: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/Searc...rbo---part-one/

    Part 2: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/Searc...und-Rockingham/

    Glad I am putting a CG powerkit on mine or would be very embarrassing at a track day

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Gosh the British press are enjoying ripping into the Turbo aren't they! Think it's great that the GT-R is such an excellent car because this should push Porsche to create a monster 998 Turbo!

    But these reporters with their sensationalist remarks such as Chris Harris in 'Autocar'... it winds me up I must be honest. Why can't he simply say "both cars are excellent but in a straight contest, the GT-R is a better car so tremendous credit must go to Nissan" instead of "THE KING IS DEAD, 911 TURBO THRASHED AND HUMILIATED BY GT-R" etc. etc.

    If Nissan benchmarked the GT-R against the 911 Turbo for the last 2 years and HADN'T created a better car then it would be pretty embarassing wouldn't it?! So the fact they have built a better car isn't overly surprising... so why are journalists so surprised?!

    I must confess... I still can't see how a car with same bhp, less torque (especially with sport chrono package switched on in the 911) and that weighs 200KG more than the Turbo can be as quick in a straight line?!?!? Can anyone explain it?!?!?

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    Hazza said:
    I still can't see how a car with same bhp, less torque (especially with sport chrono package switched on in the 911) and that weighs 200KG more than the Turbo can be as quick in a straight line?!?!? Can anyone explain it?!?!?



    GTR seems to have more power than Nissan claims. There is a small but growing body of evidence for this, as owners take their cars to have them dyno'd. Current "conventional wisdom" suggests the cars are actually producing in the area of 520HP at the crank, rather than the quoted 470.

    There's also the effect of the trick DSG gearbox I suppose.

    Would be nice to see the full 0-300kmh numbers though (I guess we'll have to wait for the Sport Auto Supertest). The Z06 is faster to the Turbo to 200kmh or thereabouts, but the Porsche claws back the win to 300kmh.

    What will the GT-R do? (Not that 0-300kmh is very relevant in 99% of real world driving situations)

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    from today's mag:

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    hesperus said:
    Quote:
    Hazza said:
    I still can't see how a car with same bhp, less torque (especially with sport chrono package switched on in the 911) and that weighs 200KG more than the Turbo can be as quick in a straight line?!?!? Can anyone explain it?!?!?



    GTR seems to have more power than Nissan claims. There is a small but growing body of evidence for this, as owners take their cars to have them dyno'd. Current "conventional wisdom" suggests the cars are actually producing in the area of 520HP at the crank, rather than the quoted 470.

    There's also the effect of the trick DSG gearbox I suppose.

    Would be nice to see the full 0-300kmh numbers though (I guess we'll have to wait for the Sport Auto Supertest). The Z06 is faster to the Turbo to 200kmh or thereabouts, but the Porsche claws back the win to 300kmh.

    What will the GT-R do? (Not that 0-300kmh is very relevant in 99% of real world driving situations)



    The Z06 is actually faster all the way to 250 km/h (not much slower than the 599 between 200 and 250), but then loses ground.
    That being said, I don't remember which magazine said so, but the GT-R was quoted as not being faster than the 997TT in the straight line. Regarding turns, I am not surprised, as the new AWD setup stinks compared the the 996TT (and many Europeans, who seriously track their Turbos switch their AWD to the 996TT viscous type at Manthey).

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    turbo is manual!! not a fare race

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Porsche at least needs to hurry up with their PDK to make it a more fair fight.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Porsche at least needs to hurry up with their PDK to make it a more fair fight.



    Not really necessary. However, they absolutely NEED to change the PTM setup .

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    All things considered how many people on this forum think that if they were in a GTR they could kick the hell out of the 997TT or Vise Versa. None I bet, the cars are so damn close specially if driven on the streets it will come to a better driver, agree? And who gives a rip which one is faster, buy the one you love.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    All things considered how many people on this forum think that if they were in a GTR they could kick the hell out of the 997TT or Vise Versa. None I bet, the cars are so damn close specially if driven on the streets it will come to a better driver, agree? And who gives a rip which one is faster, buy the one you love.



    I think I could kick a 997TT's ass in a GT-R if a driver of the same talent were driving the Porsche. With professional drivers, forget it, there won't be any difference.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    All things considered how many people on this forum think that if they were in a GTR they could kick the hell out of the 997TT or Vise Versa. None I bet, the cars are so damn close specially if driven on the streets it will come to a better driver, agree? And who gives a rip which one is faster, buy the one you love.



    I think I could kick a 997TT's ass in a GT-R if a driver of the same talent were driving the Porsche. With professional drivers, forget it, there won't be any difference.



    Crash you have every right to be wrong

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Regardless of a second here or there, just the mere fact that the GTR (at half the price of a Turbo) is so close is the key takeaway I think. We would all love the Turbo to blow away the competition but it's not gonna happen in this case.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    All things considered how many people on this forum think that if they were in a GTR they could kick the hell out of the 997TT or Vise Versa. None I bet, the cars are so damn close specially if driven on the streets it will come to a better driver, agree? And who gives a rip which one is faster, buy the one you love.



    I think I could kick a 997TT's ass in a GT-R if a driver of the same talent were driving the Porsche. With professional drivers, forget it, there won't be any difference.



    Crash you have every right to be wrong



    And you have every right to disagree with me, even though you are mistaken .

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    The V-Spec is the one everyone in Tokyo is waiting for. I have my name down, only 500 cars and all ECU limiters are OFF!

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Hopefully all this negative press will force Porsche to sort out the 997TT (PTM and PDK).

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Hopefully all this negative press will force Porsche to sort out the 997TT (PTM and PDK).



    I agree but where will that leave us with our 997TT's that we already bought, sell them and start all over

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    How long where you planning to keep it anyway... If you can buy a new 997TT I doubt you will keep it much more than 3 years...

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    How long where you planning to keep it anyway... If you can buy a new 997TT I doubt you will keep it much more than 3 years...



    Good point, I usually go about 18 months but I love my 997TT if I add too many mods it might be a keeper.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    I'm on the keeper wagon also.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    Crash said:Regarding turns, I am not surprised, as the new AWD setup stinks compared the the 996TT (and many Europeans, who seriously track their Turbos switch their AWD to the 996TT viscous type at Manthey).



    Crash, sorry to hijack, but that's the first time i've heard this. Could you elaborate please? Am not disagreeing, as I know nothing about this matter, but can you say more about why Manthey prefer the 996's set-up over the 997's?

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Unless porsche built their turbo facelift more track-focusing,and improve it's awd system,the turbo will beat GT-R spec-v

    And what's more,I don't think porsche should go on to rely on semi-slick pilot sport cup tires on GT2/3.Without cup tires,Gt2 might have not out performanced the current GT-R on Nurburgring.We should admit that GT2/3 are benifit from those tires when doing time attacks.

    Re: Video:Turbo vs 1st GT-R in the UK

    Quote:
    hesperus said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:Regarding turns, I am not surprised, as the new AWD setup stinks compared the the 996TT (and many Europeans, who seriously track their Turbos switch their AWD to the 996TT viscous type at Manthey).



    Crash, sorry to hijack, but that's the first time i've heard this. Could you elaborate please? Am not disagreeing, as I know nothing about this matter, but can you say more about why Manthey prefer the 996's set-up over the 997's?



    hesperus,

    Manthey actually replaces the 997TT AWD system (which is electronic) with the type you have in your Rt12. This makes the car much more predictable and actually faster. Just think: a bone stock 996TT with stanadrd suspension, 2000 tyre technology, 420 bhp, no LSD, 997 Carrera S brakes and the same weight lapped the Ring in 7:56.

    A 997TT with 480 bhp, PASM, LSD, PCCBs and Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (R-compound) tyres is only did it in 7:54 (7:52 after Prsche were allowed sufficient tinkering).

    I would think that even with all other things remaining the same, the 480 bhp should allow for a bigger time difference, not to mention all the other hardware. The new AWD is just not good enough and RC, who owns a 997TT and has driven the Rt12 (as has MKSGR) have commented on this.

    9000 euros for a complete AWD transplant doesn't sound bad when you consider that this is a 150.000-euro car.

    GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    According to Nissan, the GT-R engine produces maximum power output of 480PS or 473bhp at 6400rpm, implying 271bhp/tonne...

    ...but this maximum is described as "net power output", as follows:

    *The engine power output values indicated in this catalog are all net power output values.
    * Engine power output can be indicated as 'Net power output' or 'Gross power output'.
    'Gross' values are estimations of power output of the engine alone. 'Net' values are estimations of when the engine is assembled onto the vehicle. For estimations of the same gasoline engines, 'Net' values are approximately 15% lower than 'Gross' values according to JAMA research.


    ...so that would imply that the GT-R engine produces maximum "gross power output" of 564PS or 556bhp!!!

    ...and given an official curb weight of 1740kg, that would represent a power/weight ratio of 319bhp/tonne!!!

    ...which could also explain why the GT-R is apparently quicker than a 997TT with 298bhp/tonne!

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    ^^^Very interesting post above. This explains a lot. So Nissan beat the 997TT. It looks like it took a lot to do this.

    It also seems that the "innovations" developed for the 997TT weren't really that beneficial, given the feedback and limitations we're reading about PTM and VTG. The comparisons to the RUF RT12 are a direct giveaway that these technologies weren't needed.

    Hopefully the facelifted Turbo will be able to compete, but then again Nissan is releasing a V-Spec and there is that rumor about a facelifted Turbo'd wet sump engine floating around...

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    I don't think Porsche are too concerned at all - when have they ever seen Nissan as a threat to 911 Turbo sales?

    As a Porsche salesman once said "The 997 Turbo is aimed at the 40+ man who has been there and done that". The skyline has a different customer base than that...

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    I don't think Porsche are too concerned at all - when have they ever seen Nissan as a threat to 911 Turbo sales?

    As a Porsche salesman once said "The 997 Turbo is aimed at the 40+ man who has been there and done that". The skyline has a different customer base than that...


    Well, I'm over 40 and been a few places and done a few things, but I'd happily buy a GTR for half the price of a 997TT if I was looking for a premium AWD daily driver. I'd make the choice even more readily if the GTR was a bit more attractive and compact (and lighter).

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    I don't think Porsche are too concerned at all - when have they ever seen Nissan as a threat to 911 Turbo sales?

    As a Porsche salesman once said "The 997 Turbo is aimed at the 40+ man who has been there and done that". The skyline has a different customer base than that...


    Well, I'm over 40 and been a few places and done a few things, but I'd happily buy a GTR for half the price of a 997TT if I was looking for a premium AWD daily driver. I'd make the choice even more readily if the GTR was a bit more attractive and compact (and lighter).



    "premium?"

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    Quote:
    AAHTT said:
    "premium?"


    Yes, for me $70k is alot of money. If I wanted a budget AWD daily driver, I'd choose a Mitsubishi Evo...

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    AAHTT said:
    "premium?"


    Yes, for me $70k is alot of money. If I wanted a budget AWD daily driver, I'd choose a Mitsubishi Evo...



    What about a unicycle?

    Re: GT-R power output vs 997TT...

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    AAHTT said:
    "premium?"


    Yes, for me $70k is alot of money. If I wanted a budget AWD daily driver, I'd choose a Mitsubishi Evo...



    What about a unicycle?


    Definitely AWD, but they aren't so great in the snow

     
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