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    End to high-performance cars on streets of London?

    Our Marxist mayor, "Red" Ken Livingstone, has today announced plans to charge car drivers Pounds25/day (Pounds6500/9000euros/$12000 a year) to drive "high-emissions" cars into Central London, on weekdays, 7am - 6pm.

    This will cover cars registered:
    a) pre-March 2001, with engines above 3000cc.
    b) March 2001 onwards, with CO2 emissions above 225g/km.

    Good-bye all V8s, SUVs, petrol prestige cars, (private) limos, hypercars, beautiful classics, all Ferraris, Porsche 911s etc etc (unless the owners are *extremely* wealthy).

    The mayor hates 4x4/SUV drivers and wants to remove them from our roads.

    Cars with emissions of 120g/km or below will be free of charge.

    How have we got to this ridiculous position?
    - The Congestion Charge was inititally introduced as such - a congestion charge. This has now become nothing of the sort - it is now an "emissions" charge. Owners of affected large cars will simply buy a small car with low emissions, and evade the charge, adding to congestion.
    - This will decimate the value on the used market of high-emissions cars.
    - There are massive inconsistencies and anomalies - a 2000 2.5TD Range Rover will escape the penalty, a 2005 Ford Mondeo Automatic will be clobbered.
    - This charge penalises against large families (hence people carriers or 7 seaters), or people with elderly vehicles.

    This will mean far fewer nice vehicles on the streets of The City, West End, Kensington & Chelsea very soon. No residents 90% discount. There will be uproar!

    Ironically, the 4x4s will survive - the new BMW X5 35td engine has emissions of 216g/km - much to the annoyance of Red Ken! But the 911 may be banished for a few years until a "cleaner" version is available.

    My beloved Porsche Boxster S was sold last month in anticipation of this announcement. :-(
    New "clean" BMW turbo diesel coupe on order...

    I wonder if Ken will be re-elected in the summer election?
    We can only hope not ...

    DISCUSS

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of London?

    I am curious.Is this done by executive order or does it require approval from other elected representatives like council members? This rule seems a bit draconian and would have a huge impact on the economy within London I would think.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    It's just another tax. Jumping on the 'green' bandwagon again to make money. Nothing new. If the cars ran on air, then air would be taxed too. The car is an easy money-making target right now with all the carbon-emission hype. Since when has CO2 caused traffic jams or even smog?! It's just illogical.

    A lot of people with money will just move out of London - I did and never looked back!! You have to DRAG me back there these days. Hey, if it means my house price will go up and my neighbours will all be driving supercars - I AM ALL FOR IT!!

    Even Boris could do a better job than Ken.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon *DELETED*

    Post deleted by Alex_

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    The BBC report on the 'Gas Guzzlers' charge:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7240309.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7050605.stm

    Quote:
    The research centre's report said the plans could add an extra 4,000 to 10,000 cars to central London's roads and could cost up to Pounds50m in increased delays.


    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Thievery. Now your government is telling you where you can or can't take your private car? I hope they vote that commie out.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Thievery. Now your government is telling you where you can or can't take your private car? I hope they vote that commie out.



    Well, I have always said that driving a high performance car on a daily basis especially to and from work was "daft"

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Thievery. Now your government is telling you where you can or can't take your private car? I hope they vote that commie out.



    Well, I have always said that driving a high performance car on a daily basis especially to and from work was "daft"



    Ah, so that explains why you drive Ferrari instead of a Porsche! You don't drive it on a daily basis!

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Livingstone is mad, but if you live in london and you drive a high perf. car Euro 9.000,-- is crazy, but should be no problem.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    How could they actually "charge" you? Say you live in London, own a 911 Turbo, and take it around the block for 20 minutes and then park it back in your garage? They can't charge you for just having the car "sit" in you garage? I'd be interested to hear about enforcement.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    They have cameras all around London. It is very easy to catch you.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    This is now, of course, the number 1 news article in all the UK papers tonight.

    The more I think about this - the more it makes me angry...

    Let's think of some of the cars we won't be seeing on our streets after the autumn:
    All the Rolls-Royces, Bentleys, Aston Martins, Jaguars, Land Rover Discoveries, Defenders, Ranger Rovers ....

    ... wait a minute, that's the whole UK car industry!

    Ken is trying to destroy the last vestiges of manufacturing industry in this country.
    This measure is anti-British!

    And actually pro-German. Those BMW diesels will clear up: 123d, 335d, 535d, X5d, 730d... very efficient, and all exempt from the new charge.

    Wait a minute ... I think I may have got Ken on discrimination against muslims! Follow my logic:
    - Muslim have the largest number of children by racial group (source: Office of National Statistics).
    - Larger famililes need larger cars.
    - Ken hates large cars.
    - Ergo, Ken hates muslims!
    Let's get Ken on racism charges!

    95jersey - a huge number of cameras already police the existing Congestion Charge zone (Pounds8/day). If you don't move all day, you are okay. If you drive onto a main road or junction - you're caught. They interogate the UK national car ownership database - you get a nasty fine for non-payment.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    I don't think somebody who owns a rolls-royce/aston/bentley/etc would care about the Pounds25 a day charge, so i'm sure you'll continue to see those cars.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Thievery. Now your government is telling you where you can or can't take your private car? I hope they vote that commie out.



    Well, I have always said that driving a high performance car on a daily basis especially to and from work was "daft"



    Nick - don't be fooled by the Mayor's propaganda.
    This affects many cars manufactured since 2001 that have small engines - many basic cars of 2.0 litres and over will be caught. Basic farmer's Land Rovers. Most 7 seaters. Anything petrol with a turbo. Many automatics or tiptronics.
    Only the latest generation of more efficient engines will escape.

    All the Swiss bankers will move back to Zurich when they can't drive their S-Class Mercs from Chelsea to The City or Canary Wharf!

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Let me tell you how it will be
    There's one for you, nineteen for me
    'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

    Should five per cent appear too small
    Be thankful I don't take it all
    'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

    If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
    If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
    If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
    If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.

    Don't ask me what I want it for
    If you don't want to pay some more
    'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

    Now my advice for those who die
    Declare the pennies on your eyes
    'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
    And you're working for no one but me.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    More scary is all this eco-nonsense forcing mfrs to poss offer increasingly detuned cars everywhere...and poss lowering speed lims, even in Germany...and/or poss putting speed cameras around SF/NYC/LA....

    Suspect any sharp financier in London can easily calc overall cost of living/taxation of all forms/quality of life...and will migrate to wherever best arbitrage exists....

    For ex., many Manhattan hedgies left NYC taxation/regulations/quality of life issues and moved their offices to Greenwich....other major Manhattan-trained financiers relocated to BeverlyHills and SF....

    Suspect politicians in every global epicenter realize the game of taxing/penalizing the rich to subsidize socialist agendas will be rather difficult in today's world where much capital is globalized and liquid...and dynamic, powerful economies (that generate tax revenue) tend to form where smart money wants to live/work/invest....and, at least in US, many of these financiers are major sources of funding for any politician seeking to campaign for any major elected office....capitalism offers a few checks and balances vs unreasonable politicians/regulators...

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Again I hate to say I told you so. A couple of years ago I indicated that high performance cars are going the way of dinosaurs. A place, if any, for high perf. cars is the track and even then you run into problems with noise levels.

    Start thinking electric power like the Tesla where you get instant torque with no noise and be environmentally hip. It is sort of the like the 997tt. Good torque after a delay but very very quiet.

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Again I hate to say I told you so. A couple of years ago I indicated that high performance cars are going the way of dinosaurs. A place, if any, for high perf. cars is the track and even then you run into problems with noise levels.

    Start thinking electric power like the Tesla where you get instant torque with no noise and be environmentally hip. It is sort of the like the 997tt. Good torque after a delay but very very quiet.



    Gotta install a loud sound system and modulate the sound according to RPM .

    Re: End to high-performance cars on streets of Lon

    Some of the cars that are free from October
    Audi A3 1.9 TDI (119g/km)
    BMW 118d (119g/km)
    Citroen C1 (109g/km)
    Citroen C2 1.4 HDI (113g/km)
    Fiat 500 1.3 MultiJet (111g/km)
    Fiat Panda diesel (114g/km)
    Ford Fiesta diesel (119g/km)
    Ford Fusion diesel (119g/km)
    Ford Focus 1.6 diesel (119g/km)
    Honda Civic hybrid (109g/km)
    Hyundai Getz diesel (118g/km)
    Kia Picanto 1.0 (117g/km)
    Mini Cooper D (104g/km)
    Peugeot 107 (109g/km)
    Peugeot 207 diesel (120g/km)
    Renault Clio 1.5 dci (117g/km)
    Renault Modus 1.5 dci (119g/km)
    Renault Megane 1.5 dci (119g/km)
    Skoda Fabia 1.4 TDI (120g/km)
    Smart ForTwo (112g/km)
    Toyota Aygo (109g/km)
    Toyota Yaris diesel (119g/km)
    Toyota Prius (104g/km)
    Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 diesel (119g/km)
    VW Polo BlueMotion (99g/km)


    Some of the cars that will pay Pounds25 from October
    Audi TT 3.2 V6 (250g/km)
    Bentley Continental GT (396g/km)
    BMW M3 (295g/km)
    Ford Focus S-Max 2.3 (232g/km)
    Honda S2000 (236g/km)
    Jaguar XF 3.0 V6 (249g/km)
    Mercedes E280 CDI (239g/km)
    Porsche 911 Turbo (307g/km)
    Range Rover Sport V6 diesel (265g/km)
    Mazda RX-8 (284g/km)

    Cars in between the two brackets will pay Pounds8/day (as all non-electric/non-hybrid/non-LPG cars presently do).

    Hysteria

    I agree with Alex. It's just another way to tax people who drive to/from work between 7am and 6.30pm on weekdays in higher emission cars.

    No offence LondonGuy - but I think your posts predicting the 'apocalypse' are just hysteria.

    I don't drive to work. I walk 12 mins from my apartment to my office. I have a 911 which I use during the evenings and weekends. As a result, I have never paid the Congestion Charge even once in my life.

    Each of us has individual personal circumstances which are affected differently by this Charge so neither you nor I can generalise.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the Congestion Charge for one moment I'm just saying that the predictions you are making about used car resale prices and the kind of cars people will buy are far-fetched.

    I don't like Ken Livingstone either but the other comments about him being Marxist and anti-Muslim (and therefore racist) are simply comical.

    Wealthy people will always buy what they want. It will just cost a little more. That's all.

    Just wait until Road Tax goes up sharply for cars in Band G. That will hurt people's wallets much more than this.

    Re: Hysteria

    I guess the speedcameras in London are not generating enough revenew now and they want more money...

    Re: Hysteria

    Its possible this move could be worse for the environment. People buying second cars or replacing their cars for greener cars means more new cars manufactured. I'm sure manufacturing cars produces more pollution than people continuing to drive their higher emmission cars.

    Bring the new high charge in for cars registered AFTER the announcement, not 2001, and people will have a choice to make rather than being forced.

    Re: Hysteria

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I agree with Alex. It's just another way to tax people who drive to/from work between 7am and 6.30pm on weekdays in higher emission cars.

    No offence LondonGuy - but I think your posts predicting the 'apocalypse' are just hysteria.

    I don't drive to work. I walk 12 mins from my apartment to my office. I have a 911 which I use during the evenings and weekends. As a result, I have never paid the Congestion Charge even once in my life.

    Each of us has individual personal circumstances which are affected differently by this Charge so neither you nor I can generalise.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the Congestion Charge for one moment I'm just saying that the predictions you are making about used car resale prices and the kind of cars people will buy are far-fetched.

    I don't like Ken Livingstone either but the other comments about him being Marxist and anti-Muslim (and therefore racist) are simply comical.

    Wealthy people will always buy what they want. It will just cost a little more. That's all.

    Just wait until Road Tax goes up sharply for cars in Band G. That will hurt people's wallets much more than this.



    Easyrider - i also use my car in the evenings and weekends and not so much for work. However, i do not have off street parking outside my flat and have to park on a residents bay. Up till now i have been paying Pounds200 for the CC for the year. However, i fear that having the car stationary all day but on the street may mean that i will need to pay the full amount. I cannot afford the Pounds6k it will cost me a year, so i have a really tough decision on my hands....

    Fortunately my CC renewal comes up in early october, so there may be a possibility that i can renew at the old rate until the new rules kick in, but not sure.

    i do think that it's seems to be quite a short timeline between announcement and enforcement. I suspect that there are a large number of people who will have to consider selling their car quickly as Pounds6k pa is a lot to pay. Perhaps some transitional arrangements (keeping the 90% residents discount for another year under the new pricing policy for higher polluting cars) would have been a good idea. I do think that this will seriously affect Ken's chance of re-election. I wasn't planning to vote this year but i am quite keen on Boris now...

    Re: Hysteria

    Ah "red Ken" strikes again!
    AS a former resident of West Hampstead, I remember the day when Baroness Thatcher eliminated him and his comrades from the GLC, all done with the stroke of a pen! Every time I look at the former GLC HQ, now a Marriott hotel, I cannot suppress a broad grin. One thing you must know, THE REDS ARE NOW GREEN!
    Bogus science is eating away at your liberties!

    Re: Hysteria

    I am too young to remember Red Kens days as leader of the GLC. All i do remember is that during my formative years (the 80s) from the age of 1 to 11, all was good. And since 1997 its gone south - admitedly it was not long after this that i was introduced to the world of work and (stealth) taxes.

    Re: Hysteria

    @NM: I hear what you say. But, you don't have to pay the CC for parking your car on the street AFAIK. You only pay the CC for using it i.e. you'll only be caught if you drive somewhere which has the infamous black cameras set up there (which is usually on the edge of the zone and at various places within the zone) or if a mobile unit takes a photo of your number plate.

    Simply being parked on the street is not AFAIK use of one's car.

    Re: Hysteria

    easy_rider - i agree, but will have to check with tfl, as i'm not sure that the rules are that specific.

    Re: Hysteria

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    @NM: I hear what you say. But, you don't have to pay the CC for parking your car on the street AFAIK. You only pay the CC for using it i.e. you'll only be caught if you drive somewhere which has the infamous black cameras set up there (which is usually on the edge of the zone and at various places within the zone) or if a mobile unit takes a photo of your number plate.

    Simply being parked on the street is not AFAIK use of one's car.



    Most of the time I am glad to live in Kansas City. This is one of them. I can not even imagine the insanity that must have taken place to get to such a point in London. The thought of checking what time of day it is so that you can drive 'around' the CC is totally unacceptable. I do not even see parking meters where I live - it's all free! On what basis do you people elect your representatives? Are there no choices that avoid extra taxes? I love London and have visited there many times. I am just glad I do not own my 997S there. Hope you all can vote your way out of this mess someday!
    Don't even get me started on the fact that this is all linked to CO2 - to quote a recent post - nucking futs!
    Peace!

    Re: Hysteria

    I think there is some element of over-reaction. I have two Ferrari's but only use them at weekends or in the evening. I never drive into London during the congestion charging time so this will make no difference to me.

    But I do agree that Livingstone is completely out of touch with reality.

    Re: Hysteria

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7252092.stm

    Porsche UK is challenging the charge. Quite what will come of this I don't know.

     
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