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    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    carlos

    the horror and shock felt in america is universal. i find it impossible to imagine that such evil exists in the world. it is like 9/11 all over again!

    my prayers are with you and with spain.

    que dios te bendiga.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    god bless all our spanish friends.......with ya...

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    I have to thank again the members of this board for comming together to support the spanish people after such a tragedy, and deeply touched by your concern of me and my family's safety.

    I can't help but watch the news to try to understand it and also find out who did it. I really really hope it was Spain's ETA terrosrist group and not the international AlQaida group, because if it was ETA they are sealing their downfall with such an act, but if its AlQaida I'm afraid this will just be the first of the european contries to be cowerly attacked, and there would be still even more to come, maybe the other member of the Azores meeting, the UK or maybe our good neighbours, Portugal, during the World Cup. Right now the goverment is split halfway between ETA and AlQaida in who is responsible according to their investigation.
    /uploads/26599-bandera 80.jpg

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Carlos,

    Our prayers are with you.

    I believe it doesn't matter if it's ETA or Al Qaeda: those who use violence this way violate all human rules and deserve nothing but contempt. They must be stopped and will be stopped. As you say, when they do this, they seal their downfall.

    I know you live in Galicia, but were any of your family or friends touched by this horrendous act?

    By the way, with your permission, I have a new avatar for the next few days.

    Dain

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Quote:
    carrageous said:
    I know you live in Galicia, but were any of your family or friends touched by this horrendous act?



    Dain, we were very lucky, no family or friends of Madrid were affected it seems. I know people who's family member have been executed or kidnapped by ETA, and its something they never get over.

    Curiously almost 1/3 of the dead were inmigrants going to work, from 12 different nationalities. Many were ilegal inmigrants so the family members were afraid to claim their bodies in case they were deported and didn't know what to do. Fortunately the goverment has given instructions to give the spanish citizenship no questions asked to all of them and their families and collect also the compensation after this and that they should fear nothing.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Quote:
    Curiously almost 1/3 of the dead were inmigrants going to work, from 12 different nationalities.


    Same was true of the World Trade Center. As always, this is not a crime against one country but a crime against all, that is felt everywhere.

    Glad you and yours are intact.

    Dain
    /uploads/26682-26599-bandera%2080.jpg

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    I send my condolences from Southern California...

    Consideration is what the world needs right now. Beliefs, religion, politics need to all take a back seat to consideration for your fellow man.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Our friends,

    With such an act of cowardness it is hard to determine what, who and why, but know this we are behind all the way!! Espero que ustedes y todos sus familiares se encuentren bien, le ruego a Dios que les ayude y proteja.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    Curiously almost 1/3 of the dead were inmigrants going to work, from 12 different nationalities. Many were ilegal inmigrants so the family members were afraid to claim their bodies in case they were deported and didn't know what to do. Fortunately the goverment has given instructions to give the spanish citizenship no questions asked to all of them and their families and collect also the compensation after this and that they should fear nothing.



    A lot of people worldwide who criticize the US for their actions after 9/11 seem to forget that the destruction of the WTC towers killed people from dozens of different nationalities and religions. Terrorists don't care about religion or nationality, they just want to put as many bodies as possible in body bags.
    I'm a little bit disappointed and sad that the terrorists succeeded in changing the outcome of the spanish elections (no matter what political party I support or not) because terrorism should NEVER make us their puppet. Yes, I'm scared too but I don't want to give in. NEVER.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I'm a little bit disappointed and sad that the terrorists succeeded in changing the outcome of the spanish elections (no matter what political party I support or not) because terrorism should NEVER make us their puppet. Yes, I'm scared too but I don't want to give in. NEVER.



    I'm VERY disappointed, for one, because like you said, a terrorist attack by AlQaeda should not decide who is in power here and people should vote with their brains, not feelings. And second, because the socialist party who won will not support the US like the outgoing popular party and thay have no clue about macro-economics, so much for the fastest growing economy in the last decade of the European Union.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    What we are fighting is one of the greatest evils yet encountered, bent on total conversion of the world to their means. To react to that by saying "we shouldn't have made them mad," is like trying to be friends with sharks. They will still eat you.

    Now that the shark has bitten Spain, for Spanish voters to blame their government instead of the shark is more than silly, it's dangerous.

    Dain

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...

    Quote:
    carrageous said:

    Now that the shark has bitten Spain, for Spanish voters to blame their government instead of the shark is more than silly, it's dangerous.

    Dain



    Amen.

    Re: To Carlos from Spain...


    Unfortunately that's the way people react. They want a quick fix and Aznar was an obvious and easy scape goat .... AND I'm sure that any Prime Minister would have been held responsible for last Thursday's atrocity.

    Spanish critisism of the Iraqi situation

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    Quote:
    I'm VERY disappointed, for one, because like you said, a terrorist attack by AlQaeda should not decide who is in power here and people should vote with their brains, not feelings. And second, because the socialist party who won will not support the US like the outgoing popular party and thay have no clue about macro-economics, so much for the fastest growing economy in the last decade of the European Union.



    Carlos,

    You are not alone at being surprised by the outcome of the Spanish elections. But as we discussed before elsewhere, it really is impossible to put the outcome down to any one issue. No doubt the attack had an effect but what was that effect? As we already know, Spain's participation in Iraq was deeply at odds with the Spanish public's wishes (though we've argued about the extent of this public disapproval). So would it be surprising that the public voted against the outgoing government on this issue?

    Personally, I am very pleased to hear this new Spanish criticism of the Iraqi situation and particularly the very undiplomatically criticism of Blair and Bush.

    On the economy, if you are correct that the socialists will damage Spain's economy, and that Iraq was one a significant reason that the current government lost, then it follows that the current government's decision to support the USA on Iraq has just resulted in the socialist's victory and has cost Spain its economy -- something that clearly is at odds with the best interests of the Spanish people.

    Stephen

    p.s. BBC is reporting now that the vote was a punishment vote for the People's Party for their swift blame of the attacks on ETA without any real evidence -- i.e. a suspicion that the government was lying to the public on the issue.

    WTC & Iraq

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    A lot of people worldwide who criticize the US for their actions after 9/11 seem to forget that the destruction of the WTC towers killed people from dozens of different nationalities and religions.



    I am very critical of many of the USA's actions post 9-11.


    I have not forgot that the 9-11 attack many people from dozens of nationalities and religions.


    Christian, you seem to be confusing the USA's actions in Iraq with 9-11. The two are totally unrelated.


    Stephen

    Re: WTC & Iraq

    Quote:
    Christian, you seem to be confusing the USA's actions in Iraq with 9-11. The two are totally unrelated.




    Apparently NOT in the viewpoint of Al Qaeda. Spain has been punished by Al Qaeda for its participation in removing Saddam from power. That seems to be a pretty direct relationship.

    This is a significant political victory for Osama bin Laden and his team, having proven that they can use terrorist acts to control the outcome of European elections and influence European foreign policies.

    I feel sure that this is only a temporary victory, however. If attacks like this continue in Europe, it may become clear that this is not about the U.S. It's about all of us.

    Dain

    Re: WTC & Iraq

    Quote:
    carrageous said:
    Apparently NOT in the viewpoint of Al Qaeda. Spain has been punished by Al Qaeda for its participation in removing Saddam from power. That seems to be a pretty direct relationship.



    I totally agree.

    If suspicions are correct that Al Qaeda is responsible for the attacks in Spain, then it can be said that while the attack on Iraq was unrelated to Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda's attack in Madrid is related to Iraq. Ergo, Iraq has become another justification in the minds of terrorists for acts of terrorism and yet another issue which must be resolved before we can all live in peace.

    Stephen

    Re: WTC & Iraq

    I think that is a good point Dain and also a good place to leave this political discussion. If this thread continues, let's limit it to a show of sympathy and support for Carlos and his countrymen and reserve the political discussions for private messages.

    Re: WTC & Iraq

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    If this thread continues, let's limit it to a show of sympathy and support for Carlos and his countrymen.



    The one thing on which we all agree!

    Dain

    Re: WTC & Iraq

    A last word after I close down this thread:
    the elections haven't been lost because of Iraq. Iraq was there before the terror attack in Madrid and the socialists had almost no chance to win the elections. Just for the book, Stephen. The spanish people actually "punished" the government for their slow information policy. But as soon as they realize that they actually played into the hands of the terrorists, a lot of people in Spain will get a bad headache, I'm sure about it.
    Iraq had nothing to do with WTC? Think again. I agree that the Iraq war wasn't justified but it definetely had something to do with the region and sending a message.

    But enough politics, we should go back to business.
    And again: everybody is free to express an opinion but this is a passionate issue and I don't want to get things out of control, especially since 200 people lost their lives for nothing.
    In respect for these people, we should stop this discussion.

     
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