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    997 vs 997 S test

    Well it was only a matter of time to get my hands on both 997's currently available for full testing. If ound that despite their hp difference both cars are as fast where the 997 feels highly reved the more sedated 3.8 is no faster that its 3.6 counterpart. The 997 s is a better all rounder drive, its torque is well felt from the get go and is a delight on heavy traffic but top end is no faster than the "regular" Carrera. One more difference I found was the gear changes differ specially 6th gear, where the S you have to push more to the right making it kind of awkward. Where the S shines is in the chassis, PASM is a complete different deal of that of its analog partner. PASM is firm, solid and yet compliant, thankfully standard on the S. The other difference were the PCCB's, its an indescribable feeling, you feel no friction from the pads on the brake pedal nonetheless braking is effective and progressive. Sport seats yet another item specified on the this particular S are very, very reccomendable. Running head to head the non S was able to leave the S behind up to 200 kph where the S catched up, unfortunately we didn't go far beyond 200 kph to prove if top end the S would be faster, I was only able to catch the S on the straight as the worn out "18 on my regular Carrera gave a higher amount of understeer in the turns thus less speed... all in all the S with PASM, PCCB's, Sport Seats and hiegher grunt from the get go makes it a better all rounder. Mucho more to say but no time... hope pic works I hosted at tinypic.com

    [image]http://tinypic.com/234chi[/image]

    Link to:

    997 first drive

    997 S delivery

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    pic didnt work, ok lets try this...

    997 vs 997 S pic

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Thanks for the post, I currently own a 997 and I am hopefully placing an order for a 997S this week. I am anxious to feel the difference, as well as seeing them both parked in my garage.

    Cheers!
    Ray

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Finally, the S is not faster than the non S?

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    Frissen said:
    Running head to head the non S was able to leave the S behind up to 200 kph where the S catched up, unfortunately we didn't go far beyond 200 kph to prove if top end the S would be faster,



    are you serious about this
    I found this statement almost unbelieveble, but I remember the non S Carrera tested by Sport Auto made the same time to 200Kph did by Carrera S what is going on here

    Great report Frissen, this is the the right way to compare both cars, head to head

    J.Seven

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    I've also driven both cars and can say that the S DEFINATELY feels quicker than the standard car.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    I have driven both and don't think the S was much faster. It is so close to the base 997, a little faster but not a whole lot. I opted for the 997 because I feel my driving abilities will outweigh someone in an S...

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Er, does anybody really believe, he can "feel" the two, three tenths difference in acceleration between a Carrera and a Carrera S?

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    The difference is obviuosly there, just like with the Boxster and Boxster S, or the std 996 to the X51 powerkit 996 (does the powerkit not make any difference? its roughly the same performance gain than base997 to 997S), the objective dino torque and HP numbers don't lie but wether some are able to actually feel it or not its subjective and may vary for each person.
    Some will notice more the difference than others depending on their driving experience and sensibility, familiarity with the carrera Flat-6 evolution (experience with the 300HP->320/325HP->355HP), driving conditions (difference will be more noticeable on autobahn speeds than on US highway speeds or a 0-60 test), etc.
    So when someone says I didn't feel that diffrent or it was like night and day diffrence... I belive them both

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Believe it or not Rossi, im sure the majority of people who have driven both cars would agree, there is a perceivable difference in acceleration between the S and the standard car, until you have driven both i suggest you keep your ill-informed and somewhat provocative comments to yourself.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    You are more likely to notice the difference if one of the cars is your daily driver then you try the other. If you are new to both it's much harder to notice the small differences.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    DirtyHarry said:
    Believe it or not Rossi, im sure the majority of people who have driven both cars would agree, there is a perceivable difference in acceleration between the S and the standard car, until you have driven both i suggest you keep your ill-informed and somewhat provocative comments to yourself.


    Mr. BloodyHarry,
    my comment was neither ill-informed nor provocative. I was just questioning, if that relatively small difference in power and acceleration between Carrera and Carrera S really is perceivable to everyone.
    And it is exactly as Carlos said, it varies from person to person and is especially dependent on driving conditions. So it surely is possible, that someone doesn't feel it (I drove both and felt it BTW). So no need to get personal here, eh?
    And if someone narrow-minded like you feels offended, it is surely your fault and you should keep your useless comments to yourself.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    We all know the 997s is faster but as Rossi says it may be difficult to feel the difference in everyday driving .I hope my S is much quicker but from the road tests i have read it seems like theres not much in it,especially if the base car has PCCB.I think it was Chris Harris from Autocar that after driving a base 997 with PCCB questioned his own purchase of a 997s .Having said this i think the 997s was the best choice for me

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    The difference is obviuosly there, just like with the Boxster and Boxster S, or the std 996 to the X51 powerkit 996 (does the powerkit not make any difference? its roughly the same performance gain than base997 to 997S), the objective dino torque and HP numbers don't lie but wether some are able to actually feel it or not its subjective and may vary for each person.
    Some will notice more the difference than others depending on their driving experience and sensibility, familiarity with the carrera Flat-6 evolution (experience with the 300HP->320/325HP->355HP), driving conditions (difference will be more noticeable on autobahn speeds than on US highway speeds or a 0-60 test), etc.
    So when someone says I didn't feel that diffrent or it was like night and day diffrence... I belive them both



    I totally agree, on the open roads, it's marginal, but if can stretch to the S price, please be my guest.
    However, on the track, it's obvious, at high revs, I could keep up with the basic car on the long straights of Magny Cours, the S version would just leave us for dead, not to speak about the bends too, but it was cheating, it had the 20mm sport suspension
    So sum up, in the high revs, the S just flies away.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    DirtyHarry said:
    Believe it or not Rossi, im sure the majority of people who have driven both cars would agree, there is a perceivable difference in acceleration between the S and the standard car, until you have driven both i suggest you keep your ill-informed and somewhat provocative comments to yourself.


    Mr. BloodyHarry,
    my comment was neither ill-informed nor provocative. I was just questioning, if that relatively small difference in power and acceleration between Carrera and Carrera S really is perceivable to everyone.
    And it is exactly as Carlos said, it varies from person to person and is especially dependent on driving conditions. So it surely is possible, that someone doesn't feel it (I drove both and felt it BTW). So no need to get personal here, eh?
    And if someone narrow-minded like you feels offended, it is surely your fault and you should keep your useless comments to yourself.



    For goodness sake I'm not going to be drawn (any further) into an argument about something as inane as whether or not I could "feel" the difference in acceleration between two cars, yes there is barely anything in it but it is noticeable, and it's interesting to see that despite questioning if I could "feel the difference" you are now saying that you noticed it too. Anyway Rossi this conversation is boring me - god knows what it's doing to every other poor bugger that's had the misfortune of reading it - so I'm going to take my narrow mind, get into my 997S and go for a spin....Cant wait to FEEL that acceleration.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    DirtyHarry said:
    Anyway Rossi this conversation is boring me - god knows what it's doing to every other poor bugger that's had the misfortune of reading it - so I'm going to take my narrow mind, get into my 997S and go for a spin....Cant wait to FEEL that acceleration.


    Anyway, just make sure that you don't fall asleep ( ) while you go for your spin...
    Let's stop that discussion, take care!

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    I had a loan 997 when my S was at the dealer's for a few hours. Have to say it felt flippin' quick but I was sure mine felt quicker when I got back into it. Could be in the mind I suppose, and there's limited scope to really push either car around London...

    Other places to feel the difference between the Std and S

    In normal driving there's appreciably more torque in the S between 2500 rpm and 4500 rpm. After that the variocam seems to equal things out until you get to around 6000 rpm when the S feels like it will rev for ever (bit like a Honda 2000).

    It may not be all about acceleration either. The "Big Reds" on the S are noticably stronger at hauling the car down, and seem to have better feel.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    What I have learned is "on-paper" means nothing in how a car feels when driven. That's when everything comes together to give you the true feeling of the car - when the torque comes on or doesn't, what happens when as you push the throttle, etc. So, while the 997 and 997S can look similar on paper, their feel can be considerably different. Maybe that is why Porsche created two models instead of one, eh? I drove a 997 non-S this weekend. It had the "Sport" button option (that's PASM, correct?). I found the car enjoyable but a little too soft, more GT feeling than sports car. I didn't get to drive a 997S but maybe it has more of an "edge" to it.

    I also got to drive a new Boxster S. To me, it felt more fun, more sports car. It was very nice and I was impressed. It was the perfect day in Dallas to test drive a convertible. However, I am not a convertible person. Despite its fun, I could still feel chassis flex when hitting bumps, not much, but that's why I don't like convertibles. I'm thinking the upcoming Cayman S may be the perfect car for me -- the fun of the Boxster S with a little more power, a little more sharpness, and more chassis rigidity.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test


    From 5000rpm and higher the S has definitly more power.
    Try it on a racetrack and you all will agree!

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    robbo said:
    We all know the 997s is faster but as Rossi says it may be difficult to feel the difference in everyday driving .I hope my S is much quicker but from the road tests i have read it seems like theres not much in it,especially if the base car has PCCB.I think it was Chris Harris from Autocar that after driving a base 997 with PCCB questioned his own purchase of a 997s .Having said this i think the 997s was the best choice for me



    What people always seem to leave out in these discussions about hp and performance is that other just as important variable: WEIGHT. The S inevitibly weighs more than the base. I've never driven the 997 or 997S, but I have driven the Boxster S and base Boxster and I can say, yes, the S definitely feels a little bit faster. ALSO: the S definitely felt a little bit heavier.

    David

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    In this case, the difference in weight between the 997 and 997S is just 25kg so its negligible.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    There is one and only one reason why anyone would go for a standard 997....COST. I don't care how you dress it up, what excuses you could come out with or how fantastic a driver you are!! (rss996), it's that simple. Also, as long as you enjoy either car it doesn't metter.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Well hi to all,

    starting backwards (Ando) you might be right with a few exceptions,me for example, that bought the S not for the less cost but due to local taxation. Moreover some people think the base carrera power is enough for them and that not bad, if they already know they wont need the more power that the S delivers.At the end of this the S is a BARGAIN and it has been well explained in other threads why. Because of all the extras that comes with.
    (Mine for example costed 130,000 Euro when the S costs 120,000 Euro)It was just the 3,8 engine that came with high taxation.

    Continuing, why dont we all try to cut a little our attitude (Rossi and DirtyHarry) after all we are all making some company here.(At least i thought)!!

    Try to listen to Carlos who seems to state always a good argument without degradating anyone.

    My opinion on the subject.
    God the S is quicker that's a fact!

    Feeling has to do ,yes with the driver(ability,feel experience etc.) The important thing though,as someone already said here , is, how long you driven the car.I mean a test drive we all know is not enough to feel that difference,whereas an everyday driving car that got under your skin is a better base for comparison.
    If you drove the Carrera for 1 month and then move on the S, believe me you would feel the difference.
    Thats why (as someone said) the powerkit for 996 was more noticable. Because 9 to 10 people installing the powerkit already had the car for a while so they were used to its original HP and then when the powerkit was installed it was easier to perceive the difference.

    Another factor is the well known Biased judgement, when driving an S and then an non S and vise versa.Someone said he got a loan car (base) when he owned the S and felt a little slower. It could be in our mind sometimes that the quicker car(noted S) we drove must-should-is quicker than the base carrera.(like in his case).
    But the issue here is not whether the carrera S is faster(it surely is) but instead if it FEELS faster. Like the guy that felt his owned S was faster than the base.

    A very important factor that has not been mentioned in this thead, is that, in a Porsche Carrera you really dont feel the actual speed you are driving because its very well balanced and contructed,in simple words.
    I drive my car(base model) and i really think isnt so fast as it is said in all reviews and magazines.
    But when i see an impreza or an evo in the road or in traffic lights and we race, i leave them all behind, wondering why the car feels slower than it actually is.
    A BMW for example 330, can give the impression of going faster than it actually is.

    Saying all that, i want to conclude that in a car so strong(chassis,brakes,HP,torque) that you cannot actually realize the speed you are driving, some fear and anxiety are gone.

    So in power difference of 30 HP is might be possible not to realize the difference and feel it. Some drivers could of notice it ,but it depends on how active your driving is and how much atttention you give in details while driving(revs,km,times)

    PS: That yellow carrera pics posted in the first post really made me mad!!!I start considering if i should of gone for speed yellow!

    PS2: and someone mentioned having already a carrera and going for a carrera S. Is that serious? You are changing car for that slight difference?


    These were my thoughts!!

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Torque difference between two cars is 22 ftlbs or 7 percent.

    HP diff is 30 hp or 9 percent.

    Without testing either car you can see there'll be a slight difference.

    Is that difference enough to thrill you? I doubt it. I bet thrill changes would only occur in the 20 percent range.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    well MMD i kind of agree, but you see there is also the matter of price.

    The price difference is small for the things you gain.
    30HP might be small, but the price gap is also small,
    plus you get the 19 inches, big reds, PASM ,Xenon,Sports wheel and i remind you that the difference in the base and S is almost the same as was the charge for the 996 upgrade kit, that it only gave you HP and torque ,no extras at all.

    Plus that the S difference in price is almost the charge of the extras,leaving out the enhancement of the 3,8 LT.
    So to my ears and to many others the S is a bargain.
    Pitty i could not obtain it.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    Ando said:
    There is one and only one reason why anyone would go for a standard 997....COST. I don't care how you dress it up, what excuses you could come out with or how fantastic a driver you are!! (rss996), it's that simple. Also, as long as you enjoy either car it doesn't metter.



    Well, there actually are reasons other than cost.
    Stand next to the two cars with your eyes closed but ears open: they have a different sound (note-I did not say one sound is "better," only different). Some like vanilla, others prefer chocolate; neither is "better."

    Also, while there is only a small difference in torque numbers, the slopes of the torque curves are different, which means that they'll feel different in similar RPM ranges. Again, neither is "better," just different and a valid matter for personal preference.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    well ArthurY i think that is the smallest parameter to choose.
    I mean the S has a more aggresive sound, and who of all us enthousiasts wouldnt prefer the more aggresive sound?

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    I feel pretty well qualified to wade into this argument, albeit only from a tiptronic perspective and not for a few weeks yet.

    My car was wrongly ordered with a manual gearbox back in January and so I've been driving a loan "standard" Carrera for 2 months. I finally picked up my S on saturday. Now, it will take some time to run my S in before I can truely give my impressions on the comparison, but even now I can give you a steer on the differences.

    1. In my opinion the S sounds significantly better than the standard car.
    2. Off the line performance with a light throttle is very similar so far, even though my car has only got 90 miles on the clock.
    3. the little exploration I have made into the higher rev bands (sanctioned by one of the engineers who told me I could make the occasional forray so long as the engine was warm) has given me the impression that the 3.8 has a significantly stronger top end.
    4. Performance alone was not the reason I went for the S model. After 2 months of driving the Standard model I can tell you that its performance is more than adequate. For me the extras you get on the S were items I would have paid for and that left the gap as a coupld of thousand pounds which in the scheme of things made the leap very easy. Even if the performance difference is not perceptable in day to day driving I feel that the extra was well worth the spend.

    Once the car is run in, I'll let you know if my perceptions change.

    Re: 997 vs 997 S test

    Quote:
    Dilinger said:
    well MMD i kind of agree, but you see there is also the matter of price.

    edited----
    So to my ears and to many others the S is a bargain.
    Pitty i could not obtain it.



    I agree. The S is the way to go. Should be easy to burn an additional $10K since it's 12 percent difference.

    I'm just commenting on guys who imply there is and huge difference between the cars. Approximately 10 percent increase in HP and Torque isn't huge, right? However considering the option list also included... .

     
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