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    Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    I have now covered a hard 26000 Kms/ 16000 Miles ,in my 997 TT.
    I have noticed more and more a gradual increase of engine "rattle " noise.
    This can be heard for sure when driving slowly at about 40 kmh/25 Mph in third gear.
    It is a dry rattle sound from the engine not the transmision.
    I have visited the local Porsche dealer who says this is normal !
    To me it sounds bad for such an expensive supercar ! ok if it was a diesel !
    How many other owners are suffering from this NON exotic noise?
    I also get a good amount of blue smoke on start up for a few seconds on the first start of the day.
    I use the car everyday and I have already had two new turbos under warranty in June this year.
    Should I be persuing Porsche for a new engine before the warranty runs out in January 2009 ?
    Thanks for any help.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Not good sign, it could be a number of things. Insist on a full diagnosis from the dealer. If they do not play ball write an email to the technical division of porsche asap.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    Chopper said:
    I have now covered a hard 26000 Kms/ 16000 Miles ,in my 997 TT.
    I have noticed more and more a gradual increase of engine "rattle " noise.
    This can be heard for sure when driving slowly at about 40 kmh/25 Mph in third gear.
    It is a dry rattle sound from the engine not the transmision.
    I have visited the local Porsche dealer who says this is normal !
    To me it sounds bad for such an expensive supercar ! ok if it was a diesel !
    How many other owners are suffering from this NON exotic noise?
    I also get a good amount of blue smoke on start up for a few seconds on the first start of the day.
    I use the car everyday and I have already had two new turbos under warranty in June this year.
    Should I be persuing Porsche for a new engine before the warranty runs out in January 2009 ?
    Thanks for any help.



    File an official complaint in writing and get extended warranty, for good measure, if you still own the car by then.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    My 997TT also sounds similar, mines coming up to 12000 miles and recently had one of the Turbo's replaced. I came from an E60 M5, so the noise is nothing new to me, but it does appear to be getting louder. I also get smoke sometimes, usual when its been parked up at work for the day and on a slight slope. Mines been back to the OPC who say its normal.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Smoke on start up is no problem. It is due to residual oil that gets in the cylinder heads due to the architecture of flat(horizontally opposed) engines. It gets burnt on start up.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Smoke on start up is no problem. It is due to residual oil that gets in the cylinder heads due to the architecture of flat(horizontally opposed) engines. It gets burnt on start up.




    +1

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Rattle..., hummmm..., like pressed sheet metal perhaps? Check your exhaust shields; perhaps they have a loose or lost fastener. Check for other loose stuff (I'm not sure what) or parts in contact with each other that shouldn't be.


    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Finally,..... I posted this up a little while ago but didnt get much of a response from you guys so thought i was the only one experiencing this.
    My car gives off the blue smoke once in a while but that definately is normally so nothing to worry about there.

    Now the noise that is bloody awfull and still hasnt been cured. Gave it in to the dealership about a month ago to have it checked out. They had the car 6 days and this is how the diagnosis went.

    Day1. Got a call from the service advisor saying that they had figured out that the noise was coming from a loose heat shield behind the bumper. So they will have the car for a day whilst they remove the rear bumper to investigate.

    Day3. get a call from the service advisor who says its complicated so shes going to put me onto the technician. Technician comes to the phone saying that ever car has different tolerances and that it sounds like a noisy intermediate shaft but it could be the transmission. So i tell him that i would rather he calls me from now on rather than the service advisor who doesnt seem very bothered about anything.

    Day 4. The technician calls to say he has identified the sound and is happy to concede that there is a problem and has sent a recording clip of the sound to porsche GB to authorise an engine replacement. Didnt realise the problem was that bad so was a little concerned but relieved at the same time that the issue would be sorted whilst the car was
    still under warranty.

    Day 5. Got another call saying that the engine replacement will take about 70 hours worth of labour and i asked questions regarding regarding any run in procedure that i may have to follow when i get the car back. I was also told that they may replace the turbos whilst doing the replacement in order that all the new parts marry up nicely.

    At this stage im all excited about having the car back to what it should be like. I was sure that the performance was being affected by the 'issue' and the courtesy car that i had been given (a base model cayman manual) was becoming a bit of a drag to drive around. Before the the turbo i had an E60 M5 SMG which was very quick and to be really honest i couldnt really feel that much of a difference in power/speed.

    Day 6. Get a call from the technicians saying that they have performed more tests on the car and taken it for a round trip and found that the car is normal and that theyve got one in the workshop which is actually worse sounding. (like thats something to be proud of??)

    I was soo pi**ed off and said i just want my car back this is fu**ing ridiculous.

    Drove down to the dealership where they offered to show me a comparison but then couldnt make the other car create the same sound. I told them that the service was a shambles. On the way out collecting my car the stupid woman that was supposed to be service advisor hands me a bill. Pounds25 per day Pounds150.00 for the courtesy car.... and you wont believe this theres an additional charge of about Pounds12 for putting two screws into my rear number plate whch fell of when they removed my rear bumper.

    The car is now booked into another dealership for another problem see post titled THUD i will be bringing up the noise iddue with them. But if i dont get any joy What should i do???????????????????????????

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    That sounds like an absolute joke - I would have caused hell there if that was me - I would have refused to pay for the courtesy car on the grounds that if it weren't for the mis-diagnosis you would have had your car back - I certainly wouldn't have had a cayman (not that there's anything wrong with it of course) for that long, and would have demamded something more along the lines of what you have - and as for the screws?

    Pathetic behaviour on the part of the dealership - threaten to complain to PCGB and speak to the manager, not any of the other staff - and I suspect you may get your money back...

    Leicester OPC have been fine with me so far, though I have not had any issues with my car, left it with them for a weekend getting a new cup holder installed and key re-coded - they gave me a choice of a couple of cars - basically anything they had taxed was available to me - and never suggested for a moment that I'd be charged for the car - as I wasn't - also they told me not to fill the tank up, just fill as I use, and give back empty - no bill.....

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    out of interest w5 pwr why did they replace a turbo for you? what was your car doing? and what was the effect of changing it? im asking in case they tell me its a turbo when i take it back.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Ahsan there were no obvious reason to me for changing the Turbo, the first the had changed at my OPC. Apparently the bearing on one of them was seizing up and leaking some oil which was being burnt off?? Thats what they told me?

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    What are we going to do??...............

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    My car is now in for its first service.
    I have officially complained about the dry rattle sound from the engine and they will investigate that.
    I did notice when the car is cold (ie.thick engine oil ) the noise is not there until it warms up !
    I will keep you all informed of the outcome !
    Pictures of my 1EXWIFE at Brands Hatch Uk on an RMA track day,What FUN !
    It is NOT for sure exhaust heat shields ,engine mounts or transmission noise.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Brands

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    hmmm... Could it be some loose screws from the intermediate shaft? I know a few 996TT that had this problem. Some got fixed before the engine blew, some not (including mine, broken timing chain). Looks like the issue can happen anytime, new or used engine. And a reliable source told me the problem might happen to the 997TT too.
    I'm not saying that's what your car has, but if nothing can be seen from the outisde and if nobody has a clue, it might be worth opening the engine to check it.
    BTW, I'm currently discussing the issue with Porsche and I'd be very interested to know what you'll find out...

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    My car is booked in on the 27th for the OPC (a different one) to investigate the problem along with a thud from the transmission when i change from drive to reverse or vice versa.

    And also, excessive shake when i switch the car off after driving it. The engine shakes the whole car whilst it cuts out. I dont know whether the above to points could be dodgy engine and gear box mounts as the technician on the phone suggested.
    The main problem is the grinding horrible sound exactly the way chopper has described. when the car is cold its lovely, no noise and the gear box goes into gear as it should. Once the car is at operating temp the two issues arise.

    Whilst messing about with it in readiness for the 27th i was trying to so see if i could make it create the sound in case it doesnt do it on the day i have discovered that:

    If you put the car in neutral or park and raise the revs to around 1900rpm-2200 rpm it doesnt make the noise at all.

    But if you put in drive or reverse (tiptronic) put your foot on the brake pedal hard and then raise the revs to the same number the noise is there.

    So im wondering could it be the transmission. But saying that at idle the damn intermediate shaft seems to have got louder.

    I resgistered with Porsche uk through the website in order to seek technical advice. Havnt heard anything its been 4 days.

    Chopper please let me know what happens with the dealer.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    sorry forgot to add no blue smoke for about a month??

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    Chopper said:
    I have now covered a hard 26000 Kms/ 16000 Miles ,in my 997 TT.
    I have noticed more and more a gradual increase of engine "rattle " noise.
    This can be heard for sure when driving slowly at about 40 kmh/25 Mph in third gear.
    It is a dry rattle sound from the engine not the transmision.
    I have visited the local Porsche dealer who says this is normal !
    To me it sounds bad for such an expensive supercar ! ok if it was a diesel !
    How many other owners are suffering from this NON exotic noise?
    I also get a good amount of blue smoke on start up for a few seconds on the first start of the day.
    I use the car everyday and I have already had two new turbos under warranty in June this year.
    Should I be persuing Porsche for a new engine before the warranty runs out in January 2009 ?
    Thanks for any help.



    My 06TT with 17000km also started to rattle gradually. It also rattles when idling when the engine is hot. But no blue smoke though.
    Beginning of november I bring it for 2 years service. I was wondering if it was a smart move to take the extended warranty (plus 2 years), it look like it could be a smart investment.

    I'll update the thread whenever i have news. Please do the same.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Nice plate

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Assuming your gearboxes are manual, the rattle could be from the gearbox "lay gear". Depress the clutch while idling and if it goes away it should be it. If so it is not a reliability problem just a "cosmetic" nuisance.

    I have the same rattling problem on my Mini Cooper (very common for these gearboxes) and my previous 986S did that if I hadn't changed the gearbox oil for a while.Changing the oil used to silence it for many miles. You could try that too.

    Alternatively in the case of Chopper it could be a curse from 1EXWIFE!

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Mine is a Tip not manual.

    Had the car booked in for the 27th got an email from the opc not even a call to say that the loan car they had allocated to me has been damaged and therefore i have to be rescheduled for the 3rd of November. Either that or im on public transport. What a mess about!!

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    Ahsan1 said:
    Mine is a Tip not manual.

    Had the car booked in for the 27th got an email from the opc not even a call to say that the loan car they had allocated to me has been damaged and therefore i have to be rescheduled for the 3rd of November. Either that or im on public transport. What a mess about!!



    Don't let go of your claim. Insist and put down in writing that you are rejecting the product. By pass the dealership and contact Porsche GB or even PAG directly.

    The least they should do is change the engine and/or gearbox.

    I once had a problem with a VW in the UK and I kept claiming and went up to VW GB, until they replaced the whole car with an identical one.
    Consumer is king don't forget!

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Assuming your gearboxes are manual, the rattle could be from the gearbox "lay gear". Depress the clutch while idling and if it goes away it should be it. If so it is not a reliability problem just a "cosmetic" nuisance.

    I have the same rattling problem on my Mini Cooper (very common for these gearboxes) and my previous 986S did that if I hadn't changed the gearbox oil for a while.Changing the oil used to silence it for many miles. You could try that too.

    Alternatively in the case of Chopper it could be a curse from 1EXWIFE!



    Mine is manual, I'll try to depress the clutch and see what happens. But if depressing would have made a significant change I would have probably notice it as I pay attention to every noise especially with this car.

    I think I will not talk about this problem to the dealer because I'll take the extended warranty and I'm scared that if i talk about this problem before the extended warranty is a done deal that they'll refuse to extend because of this problem.

    So they'll have it for a normal 2y service and see if they remark something odd like the idling noise. And i'll ask if it's normal.

    Maybe the 2y service will be the cure.

    I'll update whenever I know something new.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    polo said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Assuming your gearboxes are manual, the rattle could be from the gearbox "lay gear". Depress the clutch while idling and if it goes away it should be it. If so it is not a reliability problem just a "cosmetic" nuisance.

    I have the same rattling problem on my Mini Cooper (very common for these gearboxes) and my previous 986S did that if I hadn't changed the gearbox oil for a while.Changing the oil used to silence it for many miles. You could try that too.

    Alternatively in the case of Chopper it could be a curse from 1EXWIFE!



    Mine is manual, I'll try to depress the clutch and see what happens. But if depressing would have made a significant change I would have probably notice it as I pay attention to every noise especially with this car.

    I think I will not talk about this problem to the dealer because I'll take the extended warranty and I'm scared that if i talk about this problem before the extended warranty is a done deal that they'll refuse to extend because of this problem.

    So they'll have it for a normal 2y service and see if they remark something odd like the idling noise. And i'll ask if it's normal.

    Maybe the 2y service will be the cure.

    I'll update whenever I know something new.



    Can you ask for a gearbox oil change during the service and see if there is any difference?
    The recommended transmission oil change is every 160,000km but it could be too long.

    Of course I don't know how much they charge for it at your OPC but it might be worth trying this out.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Thanks for all your help, i've now got it booked in for 3rd november lets see what happens. i have emailed porsche gb via the wesite technical enquiry form. But it has been nearly a week and i havnt heard anything. Funny thing is, i have been driving quite hard this evening but couldnt get the over boost arrow to show up at all.

    Can anyone recommend the best way to contact porsche gb and also give me some info on why the over boost may not be working/ thanks again

    I have said previously that the car doesnt feel as quick as my M5.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    to check overboost put the car into a high gear 4-6 and slam the gas from low speed/revs.....that's the sure way to get overboost on.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Car now ready after the first service.
    Typical the dealer can not hear the rattle !
    I will pick the car up on Friday.
    They said I should take the mechanic for a drive and show him !
    I guess he will hear it and say it is NORMAL !
    If so what shall I do next ?
    I will keep you informed.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Quote:
    Chopper said:
    Car now ready after the first service.
    Typical the dealer can not hear the rattle !
    I will pick the car up on Friday.
    They said I should take the mechanic for a drive and show him !
    I guess he will hear it and say it is NORMAL !
    If so what shall I do next ?
    I will keep you informed.



    I would write a detailed letter to PGB with all the facts and demand proper investigation and rectification.

    I would also possibly ask my lawyer to do it on my behalf.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    This morning I took my car and I can confirm that engine cold there is no noise whatsoever. However, when the engine is warm the noise is present. Depressing the clutch did nothing, as I was expecting. Also, I pushed the accelerator, while the car was stopped and the rattling noise stop when accelarating, depressing or not the clutch did change anything.

    i was puzzled that accelerating stop the rattling noise as I was expecting that if it was the intermadiate shaft causing the problem the rattling noise would continue at least a bit whan accelerating. Can anyone shed the light on this please.

    I can confirm that it really look like that the noise comes from the engine and it appears too that it does not come from something loose. From my own deduction, it looks like it come from an internal part of the engine maybe the intermadiate shaft. It also could be from a loose part from the back but I do not think so.

    Voila for the update, I bring my car the 5th november and I as i know personally the guy in charge of the service I'll ask him what he thinks about that and if there is some antecedent about this problem.

    Re: Engine rattle noise !Blue smoke...!

    Thanks in touch 1 tried the over boost test as you suggested and after a few attempts i got it to display the arrow but the digital read out went to a maximum of 1.0 bar i didnt ever see 1.2bar.
    Reginos i wouldnt suggest a solicitors letter at this stage as it would be referred to porsche's legal team and that would only slow things down. All opcs are instructed not to deal with correspondence from solicitors/lawyers but to pass it on to their legal team. I am hoping that this new dealership can sort this out for me.
    By the way whats the best way of contacting porsche gb.

     
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