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    Cayenne winter tyres

    I asked my dealer to supply a set of winter tyres for 18 inch turbo wheels as the car is going to live in the alps for a while. Having checked this evening, what they've supplied are Pirelli Scorpion Zeros. They do have more siping than the pictures I've seen of Zeros on the web. Are these real winter tyres? They don't have a snow flake logo on them.

    Thanks

    Martin

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    It has to be the "ice and snow", this on is with the snow flake.

    Pirelli

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Martin, it has to be the Pirelli Scorpion Ice&Snow N0. This tire also has the snow flake on it.
    The Scorpion Zero is NOT a winter tire, your dealer screwed you or he's just too dumb to read Porsche's recommendations and ordered the wrong tire.
    The Scorpion Zero is a high performance tire, not a winter tire. Very dangerous on icey/snowy roads.

    Here is a picture of how the Ice & Snow Scorpion looks like.


    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    And here is the Scorpion Zero.

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Regarding tires, there are some confusing statements.

    I visited last saturday Dunlop in Hanau/Germany. Dunlop is the main sponsor of the Dunlop Driver's Cup. I am one of then finalist and it was our obligation to visit the production of Dunlop UHP in Hanau. Dunlop belogs to Goodyear. Dunlop is producing only UHP tires, which means Ultra High Performance tire up to 22".

    The chief production engineer explained us how the production is organized and how "good" are the Dunlop tires. He told us that Dunlop can make per day more then 60 production process changes and 120 per month. That is intended for the car manufacturer specific production. He mentioned that the are producing for Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi .....

    I have asked him explizit, what are the difference between this tires. He said that every car manufacturer likes to have an individual character of the tire. Audi and BMW more sportive Mercedes more comfortable. I have asked him how large is the difference between a Porsche Dunlop tire and the "same" non-Porsche Dunlop tire. He told me that all Dunlop tires (same model) are 98% equal. Only 2% are specific to the manufacturer. Also he told me that the load and security of the tires is the same. He laughed as I have told that the Cayenne is heavy and has special load. He presented me the tire for VW Golf GTI, they can have a load of more then 700 kg on each tire, so in sum 2800 kg! He said you can choose BMW and take the tires for a Mercedes, it will be OK.

    Dunlop says if they produce a tire for e.g Porsche Cayenne turbo in 20" then this tire is 100% ok for this car. You can choose the one produced for Porsche but you can use the "standard" without loosing anything. Sometime the tires are identical, only a BMW logo is printed or MO (Mercedes Original) is vulkanized on the tires.

    Of course RC is right, don't buy a summer tire for winter use, this would be very dangerous

    AM

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    ...actually, Pirelli Scorpion Zero is NOT summer high performance tire, instead it IS all-season M&S (mud and snow) tire and it is NOT DEDICATED winter tire...

    ...dedicated winter tires for Cay are:

    1. best! Dunlop Grandtrek WT M2
    2. second best! Pirelli Scorpion Ice&Snow
    3. then ...others, like Continental 4x4 Winter Contact, Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 and etc...

    I'm sure all-season Pirelli Scorpion Zero will be just fine for Alps trip, especially in hands of decent driver.

    But of course, some driver may choose dedicated winter tire for such trip...

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Quote:
    ozr said:
    ...actually, Pirelli Scorpion Zero is NOT summer high performance tire, instead it IS all-season M&S (mud and snow) tire and it is NOT DEDICATED winter tire...



    I'm afraid you're wrong.
    Despite the fact that a short look at the profile of the tire (I posted a picture of the Pirelli Scorpion Zero) would tell you everything, you're mixing up things.
    Here is the MANUFACTURER description for this tire:


    King of the road.
    A unique, Ultra High Performance tyre for the latest generation sport utility vehicles and light trucks.

    Predominantly for on-road use, Scorpion Zero offers high speed comfort, low noise levels, precision handling and quick steering response.
    Its technical characteristics ensure maximum performance, safety and excellent traction.

    The exclusive "Z" tread pattern, low profile and characteristic yellow scorpion on the sidewall (only available on selected sizes), make this eye-catching design the ideal choice for the ultimate 4x4 change-overs, including those with wider alloy wheels.

    A class leader, Scorpion Zero gives expression to the most powerful 4wd with all the Pirelli style and safety.


    The M&S logo doesn't say much.

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    I have asked him how large is the difference between a Porsche Dunlop tire and the "same" non-Porsche Dunlop tire. He told me that all Dunlop tires (same model) are 98% equal. Only 2% are specific to the manufacturer. Also he told me that the load and security of the tires is the same.



    White isn't black and red isn't yellow.
    Meaning: you can't compare one tire manufacturer to the others.
    And to go further: so there is "only" 2% difference at max? Where is that 2% difference? Tire profile, tread, etc.?
    Did you actually see how a tire is manufactured? So you probably know that what the guy told you is a little bit...well, to say it blunt: hot air.

    And if you don't "give away anything", why do car manufacturers like Porsche change the 2% you mentioned? Doesn't make sense to me, does it make sense to you?

    Another thing: tire manufacturers have a non-disclosure agreement with car manufacturers. Even if if this Dunlop guy wanted to, he wouldn't have been allowed to tell you any details. So he served you "hot air", at the same time promoting his own company products.

    Load indexes? Well, another interesting story and I'm sure the Dunlop guy gave you an explenation for that too.
    Let's take a certain tire for example, same size, same name but one has a N0 added. The N0 tire is approved up to 300 kph, the other one only up to 270 kph (manufacturer approval). The N0 tire also has a different load index, not much difference but around 100 kg per tire.
    Now some more food for thought: take a Cayenne Turbo, FULLY loaded at maximum capacity. Take a hot summer day with very hot asphalt temperatures. And let's say you do maximum speed for a few minutes. Well, I wouldn't like to drive the non-N0 tire. This was just a very simple example, things are even more complicated in reality.

    Dunlop produces great tires, no doubt about it. But I stick with Michelin, right now their tires really rock.
    And to make you understand how much crap this guy told you: if he mentions a VW Golf with 700 kg max. load per tire and laughed about you mentioning the heavy weight of the Cayenne, I'm sure he also mentioned to what SPEED the 700 kg max. load is approved. I bet it wasn't 300 kph.

    Take a tour of whatever company you like, including Porsche and you hear only miracles. But in reality, you're just doing a promotion tour for a certain product, don't expect full honesty but expect a lot of "stories". I guess this is the same with all companies and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you hear the "other side" too.

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres


    RC,
    ...literally you are correct, but ONLY literally...

    ...actually, realistically, I'm correct...
    ...This is my favorite tire company...

    I would expect from you to hear something different...

    In my opinion (...and not just my...), the only true REAL SUMMER UHP (Ultra High Performance) tire line is:

    1. PZero line of tires (Assimetrico, Rosso and etc...) for passenger cars and
    2. Scorpion Zero Assimetrico line of tires for SUV.

    Even though you may find a little different Pirelli classification on their website... Even though, you READ Scorpion Zero tire to be classified by Pirelli website as UHP in ONE website area, they themselves classify this tire as ALL-SEASON in other website area...try "using their recomendation menus..."

    tirerack.com CLEARLY and REALISTICALLY correctly classifies all Pirelli and other tires:

    pirelli on tirerack

    ...also I still have my own opinion on this subject...

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    RC, who will know exactly?

    I have seen the production and the kernel/structure of a tire is identical. As they have explained as during the visit of the production.

    They called the 2% the character of a tire. Which makes sense, same security but little bit more comfort for MB and little bit more sportive for BMW. You can apply this also to Porsche. RC imagine a full loaded VW W12 or V10 Touareg (which is heavier then a Porsche Cayenne turbo) travels in a hot summer day with full loaded at maximum speed in a country like USA (regarding laws). So why should Dunlop (in this case) take the risk? But I think that we are discussing thing that nobody knows exactly. You prefer N0 tires wich is 100% correct and other people like (or prefer) other tires which could also be correct.

    AM

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Thanks all for the info.

    I faxed the dealer a copy of the page from Christophorus from the end of last year which listed the Cayenne winter tyres and they now seem to believe me and are looking into it. Whilst they now realise that the Scorpion Ice & Snow is the correct tyre they still claim there isn't an official N rated version of it :-( The more local dealer from the same group do seem to know what they're talking about and where to get the right tyres though so I'll be dealing with them in the future.

    Unfortunately the car is now up in the alps so I won't get them changed this year.

    RC : They Zeros I have look like the ones in the picture you posted except there are three sipe cuts through each Z shape rather than one as in your picture. Also, would it be true to say that Porsche would not recommend reusing the Scorpion Zeros that they put on my car even if they'd been taken off whilst still brand new? I think that's what you were saying in your post from last year re. official winter tyres.

    Thanks again

    Martin

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    ...new (ZZ) tread pattern for this tire instead of old (Z) tread pattern...




    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Here's a close up of the tread on my tyres.



    You can see three cuts through each "Z". I can't quite tell if this is the same as the picture of the ZZ tyre.

    Martin

    Re: Cayenne winter tyres

    Martin,

    Your pic. does not show complete tread profile from left tyre edge to the right tyre side edge! Specifically it does show left tyre edge, but doesn't show the right tyre edge. ZOOM OUT more next time to see whole tyre tread...

    ...but based on this partial pic., it seems to be (ZZ) tyre pattern, as in above vulcan.com pic.

    (Z) tyre has ONLY 2 channels in the middle of the tyre vs (ZZ) has 3 channels.

    Enjoy,

     
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