Crown

Board: Ferrari Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

     to hire WW? It is known that Ferrari has envied how well Porsche has been managed under WW. One problem would be the restrictions in the severance package which may restrict WW from going to a competitor for a stated time. In addition, I am not sure how well he would get along with the big M. 

    Though the culture may be different, nevertheless with Fiat buying Chrysler and starting to get some steam, a guy with WW talent would be a huge asset for the bottom line.

     


    --

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Interesting idea Nick but I'd think Sergio Marchionne would rather put Wiedeking in charge of Maserati where there is greater potential to expand the sales volume wihout harming the brand. Imagine a revised Maserati line up with a high end Boxster competitor and possibly even an SUV. Ratan Tata sits as a Director on Fiat's board so that opens the door to a deal with Land Rover on platform sharing for WW to exploit. I suspect WW could also do good things with the Alfa Romeo brand.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    I somehow like Nick's idea, but your suggestion is even better.


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    I think that the possibility of having his input on the development and expansion of Maserati could have great results, that would also put him in a position close enough to Ferrari but without any significant risks to the F brand.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Your analysis makes a lot of sense. Smiley

    BTW, since I am not familiar with European attitudes how would Italians react to a German running an Italian company?Smiley 


    --

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    That would likely make Ferrari more profitable for shareholders, but would be the end of Ferrari as you know it and like it Nick.


    --


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Sure great idea, he could organise a ferrari takeover of Fiat after putting out some lackluster vehicles and plunge them into bankruptcy. And of course kill off the racing program.

     

    Wendell was a disater for Porsche.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Nike,

    Although your idea is a good idea but I seriously doubt it if WW would be picked up by Ferrari.  At Lamborghini, I'd say, he has a better chance since it's a true mixture of Italian / German company.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    A German already runs Lamborghini (at least he was born in Germany) and it's owned by Audi. The guy who really turned things round at Maserati quality wise in recent years was also a German - Karl-Heinz Kalbfell (ex BMW and now at Artega). The current Maserati CEO is Harald J. Wester who is also German (ex VW, Audi, Ferrari and Steyr Group).

    Based upon this it would not be an issue for WW to move to Modena. I doubt Ferdinand Piech  would be happy though


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    racerx:

    ........ 

    Wendell was a disater for Porsche.

     

    I think Sergio Marchionne and the Fiat spa board would be happy to have such a "disaster" working for their brands and lifting sales tenfold in the process Smiley


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Tom there you go again. Along with your litany of negative issues you failed to mentioned he made Porsche the most profitable and evied automobile company on the planet. Smiley

    Carlos, I don't have any problem with Ferrari becoming more available. They need to get away from elitism which recently has been hurting their brand.


    --

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Ron (Houston):

    Nike,

    Although your idea is a good idea but I seriously doubt it if WW would be picked up by Ferrari.  At Lamborghini, I'd say, he has a better chance since it's a true mixture of Italian / German company.


    Hey Ron, you don't really mean that seriously, do you?

    Lamborghini = Audi = VW ---> WW ??? No way. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Rossi:
    Ron (Houston):

    Nike,

    Although your idea is a good idea but I seriously doubt it if WW would be picked up by Ferrari.  At Lamborghini, I'd say, he has a better chance since it's a true mixture of Italian / German company.


    Hey Ron, you don't really mean that seriously, do you?

    Lamborghini = Audi = VW ---> WW ??? No way. Smiley
     

     

    If that way out scenario ever happened I'm guessing he'd wake up to find a horse's head next to him in bed as a gift from the "boss" (Piech) on his first day at work at Sant'agata Smiley


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Was it so profitable?  Was any of that stuff true? Wasn't most of it from hedging strategies?

    When I last gave a hoot about the finances/future of Porsche they had orchestrated a screwing of hedge funds in the DAX to the tune of $7 billion, next thing I know they are bankrupt looking to the mid-east for a white knight.

    Look at the difference lately, Ferrari comes out with car praised by everyone from the start and Porsche comes out with a butt ugly turkey.

    A much better model for manufacturing and model line-up is BMW.

    Porsche gets cut a lot of slack for its stumbles and it is only because of some romantic notion of what it used to be in the 70's and 80's.

    Even many of the owners of the cayenne here readily admit it is no beauty. They were very late to the game with it.

    What do they have for the future?

    If you look at their line-up without emotion you see some nice 911's (gt2 + GT3) and sales down 50% and every other manufacturer passing them by in sales and tech.

    They don't even have paddles yet. 

    No GT, No true entry level, No racing program (compare to 80's), and now no money.

    What was the point of buying a struggling VW anyway? even if it happened 

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Porsche of today is a shadow of what it was in 85 and none of that great money in the bank that it is claimed they made.

    whereas Ferrari and Lamborghini are way ahead. and in relative terms Aston is even further improved.

    Those are the facts and the most prized possession is gone - their independence!


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Life in the VW group could be good for Porsche. Things that could come out it.....

    Probable green light for Panamera coupe (928 successor) with VW's purchasing power enabling the car to go into production much earlier than under an independent Porsche.

    Possibility of a mid engined car using the R8 chassis and a modified V8 from the Panamera turbo. This model could reinvigorate Porsche's racing programme.

    Porsche variant of the forthcoming VW roadster as an entry level car in the spirit of the 914.

    Access to the vast R&D department within the VW group will allow new models to be developed much faster.

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

     Life may be good under VW because they may get better designs and a possible 928 successor MIGHT look good.

    ISUK - but on the question of improving or hurting a brand no impartial person can say Porsche improved under Wendells tenure if you know what was and what is.

    Even audi products are far superior to what they were and I seem to recall some recent racing success too.

    For instance - AM had a kit car-ish V8 and an odd Lagonda in 1985. Today they have the V8 Vantage, V12 Vantage, DB9, DBS, Rapide, One-77, and have shown a sub-compact and possible sport ute.

    Most of their line-up is more desired than any current porsche model.

    While Aston has a stellar line-up of extraordinary cars in a visual and technical standpoint Porsche basically has become a 1 horse show with a side order of Cayenne.

    Those are the facts.

     

    Tell me, from a sports car fan point of view, who has done better Aston or Porsche?Smiley

     

    There is no negativity in my thoughts here at all, just knowledge of the facts as they are. Porsche was the king of the hill, but now an also ran.

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    No arguement on that front from me as I think Porsche have been lazy and held back on releasing technological improvements when it comes to their 911 line up. The Nissan GTR along with the R8 has given them a serious wake up call. Generation 2 turbo is going to address some of those issues head on by all accounts but more is needed to regain their performance crown.

    It's also sad that the Boxster has been deliberately held back so as not to make the Carrera models look inadequate. Bring on club sport or RS variants asap please.

    The Astons look good but are a bit BMW same sausage, different lengths philosophy and will date quickly too - just look at the previous DB7 model. The build quality and longevity of materials used is also questionable. I've yet to see a 3 or 4 year old V8 Vantage without a very tired looking interior, even on low miles.

    Porsche have the ability to deliver the goods and under VW may just be given the free reign to do so. Gaining control of Porsche must be the ultimate personal satifaction for Herr Piech and, as a confirmed car guy, I doubt he'll want to devalue the family silver. I just hope that they don't go chasing for a Carrera GT successor at the expense of an R8 type mid engined car for enthusiasts.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    ISUK:

     

     

    The Astons look good but are a bit BMW same sausage, different lengths philosophy and will date quickly too - just look at the previous DB7 model. The build quality and longevity of materials used is also questionable. I've yet to see a 3 or 4 year old V8 Vantage without a very tired looking interior, even on low miles

    I agree DB7 is dull but that really was pre-Bez.
     

    I would love to have seen Porsche under the control of Dr. Bez - at least product wise.

    To me this is the pinnacle of automotive achievement, what Porsche would have done and should be doing had it been under different leadership;

      

    aston_martin_one_77 holy shit.jpg

     

    one_77 suspension.jpg

     

     

    aston-martin-one-77-engine use.jpg

     

    aston_martin_one_77 interiior use.jpg

    aston 177 use silver.jpg

     Smiley   Smiley  That's an achievment of technical, manufacturing, and design excellence. That's leadership. Montezumolo is doing very well also.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    nberry:

    Tom there you go again. Along with your litany of negative issues you failed to mentioned he made Porsche the most profitable and evied automobile company on the planet. Smiley

    Carlos, I don't have any problem with Ferrari becoming more available. They need to get away from elitism which recently has been hurting their brand.

    I would think you'd have a problem with Ferrari pulling out of racing, a Ferrari SUV and sedan rolling out, and your beloved Ferrari resale value  plummeting due to increased production numbers since limited production is the only thing that artificially sustains their resale value of modern day Ferraris.

    BTW, WW made Porsche very profitable (not without sacrificing many things that were very dear to Porsche fans) but also took it to bankrupcy afterwards lets not forget. You of all people have been criticising Porsche managment the most over these years for the way they were running the company and the desitions they were taking, to the point of borderline obsessive and repetitive... and now that he is gone, all of a sudden you are a fan of WW?


    --


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    racerx:
    ISUK:

     

     

    The Astons look good but are a bit BMW same sausage, different lengths philosophy and will date quickly too - just look at the previous DB7 model. The build quality and longevity of materials used is also questionable. I've yet to see a 3 or 4 year old V8 Vantage without a very tired looking interior, even on low miles

    I agree DB7 is dull but that really was pre-Bez.
     

    I would love to have seen Porsche under the control of Dr. Bez - at least product wise.

    To me this is the pinnacle of automotive achievement, what Porsche would have done and should be doing had it been under different leadership;

      

    aston_martin_one_77 holy shit.jpg

     

    one_77 suspension.jpg

     

     

    aston-martin-one-77-engine use.jpg

     

    aston_martin_one_77 interiior use.jpg

    aston 177 use silver.jpg

     Smiley   Smiley  That's an achievment of technical, manufacturing, and design excellence. That's leadership. Montezumolo is doing very well also.


    This car looks so stunning. Smiley Smiley Smiley

    Expecially the rear is a perfect evolution of the currently already perfect rear of AM. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    ISUK:
    Rossi:
    Ron (Houston):

    Nike,

    Although your idea is a good idea but I seriously doubt it if WW would be picked up by Ferrari.  At Lamborghini, I'd say, he has a better chance since it's a true mixture of Italian / German company.


    Hey Ron, you don't really mean that seriously, do you?

    Lamborghini = Audi = VW ---> WW ??? No way. Smiley
     

     

    If that way out scenario ever happened I'm guessing he'd wake up to find a horse's head next to him in bed as a gift from the "boss" (Piech) on his first day at work at Sant'agata Smiley


    Smiley Smiley Smiley

    But shouldn't it be a BULL'S head then? Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Ohhhh my god.... this is the first time I see the DB7 interior shots.... WOW .... absolute perfection!


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Yes Rossi, but it is not just the looks, the skin, but what is really amazing is the internals. The design of the structure and the materials used and the way they are put together.

    Its like one of those expensive watches where you can see the inner workings. This car has outdone AM for beauty and outdone Zonda for exotic structure and materials. And as nice as the new 458 is, and it is, this car is on another level.

    My new name for this is EPIC. The epic 0ne-77.

    Look at the structure, its like a formula1 car covered in Aston skin. (these are big, click on them)

    epic front large.jpg

     


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Look at the rear suspension, it's amazing the mix of materials and the geometry going on Smiley

     

    epic rear sus box.jpg 

    epic spring box.jpg


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Look at the beauty of the carbom in the engine bay, (just like the legs of my sofa) This engine bay is better than a Range Rover interior.Smiley

    epic carbon.jpg 


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

     Imagine this in black highlighted by that chrome trim coming down a road some evening with just the parking lights on, low and wide, and shaking the pavement with that 750 hp. Imagine sitting in there driving it, in that ultimate AM interior.

    epic side.jpg


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Here is the sound, even though a cheap video camera will never capture the true depth of the sound, this thing sounds meaner than that ZONDA race car driving up and down that street near the factory.

    BTW this is what Aston can produce, an epic car, a GT, under the leadership of the guy who was the program manager for the 928

     

     

    Porsche may or may not have made money, but its gone (the money), but these cars will be around forever.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    racerx:

    This car has outdone AM for beauty and outdone Zonda for exotic structure and materials. And as nice as the new 458 is, and it is, this car is on another level.


    Well, this comparison isn't fair. How much is a 458 and how much is a One 77? You can't even compare it to a Zonda, since it is approximately twice (!) the price of a (standard) Zonda. Smiley

    Fantastic car nevertheless. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Opinions on whether Ferrari would be smart

    Rossi:
    racerx:

    This car has outdone AM for beauty and outdone Zonda for exotic structure and materials. And as nice as the new 458 is, and it is, this car is on another level.


    Well, this comparison isn't fair. How much is a 458 and how much is a One 77? You can't even compare it to a Zonda, since it is approximately twice (!) the price of a (standard) Zonda. Smiley


     

    It's not fair But it is accurate.
     

     

    Price really doesn't belong in any of these discussions unless it's a thread about someone actually speccing out their own car. This is about automotive achievement and car fantasy.

    Because for value, a new Camaro SS beats all of these in bang for buck and that is beaten by an owner customized 928.

    But I like what Zonda has done and I like the new 458. That being said the one-77 sits at the top of the heap for material, design, sound, beauty, and desirabliity. 

    So I would guess that if 100 of us were taken to a nice area, say napa valley and shown 5 cars; a ONE-77, a 458, a zonda, a lambo, and a gt3. And you drive them for a couple hours. And then told you could keep 1 car for everyday use and only 1 and had to live with that 1 car with all expenses paid.

    My guess is that the one-77 would win a strong majority as it excels in all categorys and is an all-rounder. The 458 would come in a distant 2nd. The GT3 would be last.


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 11/15/18 10:20 AM
    TB993tt
    402867 5188
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 11/17/18 12:03 AM
    Pilot
    320328 1966
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 11/18/18 4:03 AM
    Spyderidol
    269534 2962
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 11/7/18 2:43 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    211173 1077
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 11/15/18 6:23 PM
    BONES
    190970 2674
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/18/18 5:14 AM
    ZahirD
    121971 2410
    AMG Sticky Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 11/15/18 12:15 PM
    RCA
    32123 316
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 9/25/18 6:14 PM
    throt
    13990 121
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 6/18/18 8:51 PM
    Monkey
    13286 31
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    522814 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    483251 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/13/18 10:12 AM
    RCA
    278657 2589
    Porsche Cayman GT4 11/16/18 11:30 AM
    RCA
    263716 2611
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    191463 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 11/17/18 4:47 AM
    koko
    189397 1738
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 10/29/18 5:13 PM
    reginos
    178688 3212
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    142696 757
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 11/1/18 6:13 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    141858 2234
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    128206 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    111602 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    106471 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 11/17/18 4:38 PM
    reginos
    84338 1126
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 10/13/18 9:50 PM
    RCA
    66596 672
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    57178 423
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    46637 477
    Others Tesla Roadster 11/14/18 12:48 PM
    lukestern
    43142 1395
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    42809 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    41241 597
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/16/18 9:46 PM
    Topspeed
    39188 471
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 11/14/18 11:25 AM
    RCA
    39032 637
    284 items found, displaying 1 to 30.