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    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Nice review ...unless you own a 997TT
    The GT-R sounds more and more like an amazing machine. I guess picking it over e.g. a 997TT all comes down to brand preference and taste, if you can disregard the 55,000$ difference in price.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    None of these articles matter. We need to hear from Sportauto. Right? Kreso only pulling your leg.

    Do you think it is possible for a German magazines to find the GT-R better as every other magazine has?

    I suspect they will not test the car until the 997TTX package is introduced.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    i am still driving a Porsche, not Nissan lol

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Honestly I wouldnt mind one bit owning and driving a GT-R.
    I guess it depends on your taste, and what signal you wanna send on the street and/or on the track.
    The Nissan will prolly be seen as a ricer by common folk/non-car enthusiasts on the street, but on the track it'll most probably be a different story.

    Without having tested either, I'd pick the GT-R and have money left for a Boxster

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Those of us in the the UK and Australia (and Japan obviously) understands the legend of the GT-R much better than most others in Europe and US. That's because we have had exposure to the R32, R33, R34 and now R35. For us, it really is no surprise that the R35 is such a monster, especially because it was earmarked as an international car and the 206kw restriction no longer holds (not that any GTR was ever 206kw). I for one love the history and legend of the GT-R, and will have no problem owning one. In fact I do see myself in one in the next few years.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Gonna be a looooong time coming when I'm at a traffic light with a GT-R and I feel inferior in my 997 Turbo.

    On a track with professional drivers is what the articles are debating.

    On the streets, doesn't mean sht because, besides being incredibly stupid, we'd both get stopped and arrested trying to out do each other.

    Though they _are_ nice cars, because of their other shortcomings, Nissan, like Corvette is..., ahem..., mostly "a good value" as far as I'm concerned.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    None of these articles matter. We need to hear from Sportauto. Right? Kreso only pulling your leg.

    Do you think it is possible for a German magazines to find the GT-R better as every other magazine has?

    I suspect they will not test the car until the 997TTX package is introduced.



    Nick,

    you are missing the point here I am affraid...

    Nissan GT-R sales in good old Europe will start in late March 2009. NONE of the respected european magazines will test EURO specs GT-R before early March 2009... So, for me at least there is no point to debate about car that simply DO NOT EXIST yet on any EU market(save for RHD UK, even there it is GREY import from Japan).

    I have NO doubt what so ever that GT-R is really very good and fast. BUT, sales of that car will start in ONE year here in Europe so, for me at least there is NO interest what so ever in current tests...

    BTW, Sport Auto requested GT-R from Nissan Deutschland and they got answer that: "...one of the first PRESS cars will be delivered to your magazine in late February 2009."

    So, we have very long year ahead of us...

    Another BTW... von Saurma already drove one lap with test mule of GT-R on the Nordschleife... On partially dump Ring he achived 7.50min with RE070 tires... According to his expereinced hands there is potential for 7.45min in GT-R on dry Ring... BUT, 7.38min?? Yeah, in Nissan technical stuff dreams... Still IMHO 7.45min is amazing time for that ugly heavy pig.

    About acceleration figures... GT-R is very fast till around 220km/h... After that things are not that good... Till 250km/h 997 Turbo(stock) is faster and till 300km/h difference is very big... So, on famous German Autobahn GT-R DO NOT HAVE any chance against 997 Turbo...
    Some of you think different? No problem since most of you from outside good old Europe never had a chance to drive on the Autobahn at all... Regarding autobahn, there is excellent article about it in March 2008 issue of UK's Car magazine by Georg Kacher.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    I am fortunate to live 7 minutes away from an unrestricted autobahn that has fairly light traffic. I drive at 250+ km/h almost every day and really enjoy the thrill of high speed and rapid acceleration from 200-300 km/h.

    But autobahns have bumpy bends that can be turbulent at very high speeds. And autobahns are public roads and extreme speeds do frighten slower drivers (so I slow down to 250 km/h when overtaking and negotiating bumpy bends). Most autobahns, however, have heavy traffic and chances to drive flat out are not frequent.

    I also live 30 minutes away from the Nordschleife and it is here rather than on autobahns that I prefer to drive closer to the limit. The Ring tests driver skills far more than the autobahn. 200km/h around fast bends at the Ring (with the car near its limits) feels faster than 300 km/h in a straight line.

    It seems the GTR will be faster than both a Turbo and a GT3 on the Ring, but slower than a Turbo on the autobahn. Only the GT2 is faster than the GTR both on the Ring and on the autobahn. But on a wet back road the GTR is probably the fastest car on sale today.

    This is a remarkable achievement from Nissan that will result in better performing sports cars from Porsche, BMW and other sports car makers. I am very pleased that Nissan has raised the bar; it will benefit all of us.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    I am fortunate to live 7 minutes away from an unrestricted autobahn that has fairly light traffic. I drive at 250+ km/h almost every day and really enjoy the thrill of high speed and rapid acceleration from 200-300 km/h.

    But autobahns have bumpy bends that can be turbulent at very high speeds. And autobahns are public roads and extreme speeds do frighten slower drivers (so I slow down to 250 km/h when overtaking and negotiating bumpy bends). Most autobahns, however, have heavy traffic and chances to drive flat out are not frequent.

    I also live 30 minutes away from the Nordschleife and it is here rather than on autobahns that I prefer to drive closer to the limit. The Ring tests driver skills far more than the autobahn. 200km/h around fast bends at the Ring (with the car near its limits) feels faster than 300 km/h in a straight line.

    It seems the GTR will be faster than both a Turbo and a GT3 on the Ring, but slower than a Turbo on the autobahn. Only the GT2 is faster than the GTR both on the Ring and on the autobahn. But on a wet back road the GTR is probably the fastest car on sale today.

    This is a remarkable achievement from Nissan that will result in better performing sports cars from Porsche, BMW and other sports car makers. I am very pleased that Nissan has raised the bar; it will benefit all of us.



    Absolutely. Porsche will be hard-pressed to achieve the cornering capability of the GT-R. I would think that this is simply a function of reprogramming the PTM and changing the suspension somewhat.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Kreso, if HvS can do it in 7:45, is it not possible that factory race drivers they used to set the 7:38 time could do it in that time given how well they know the car? As for autobahn, as I mentioned earlier, this car simply isn't built to be the fastest thing on the Autobahn. Think about it, how many buyers of GT-R worldwide would actually get to use their car on the autobahn, yes, even European owners! A very small handful. WHich is why only German manufacturers concentrate on that aspect.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Kreso, if HvS can do it in 7:45, is it not possible that factory race drivers they used to set the 7:38 time could do it in that time given how well they know the car? As for autobahn, as I mentioned earlier, this car simply isn't built to be the fastest thing on the Autobahn. Think about it, how many buyers of GT-R worldwide would actually get to use their car on the autobahn, yes, even European owners! A very small handful. WHich is why only German manufacturers concentrate on that aspect.



    7.38min is IMHO little bit overoptimistic time...

    Even EVO stuff was carefull enough to said that final judgement needs to be saved for UK specs GT-R(February 2009) so, please try to understand my point-we are talking here about Japan specs GT-Rs...

    IMO GT-R is great car indeed(although I simply do not like the way it looks).

    Just I have a strange feeling that none of the European magazines will achive amazing times(with Euro GT-Rs) that are currently set by Japan GT-Rs...

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Kreso, if HvS can do it in 7:45, is it not possible that factory race drivers they used to set the 7:38 time could do it in that time given how well they know the car? As for autobahn, as I mentioned earlier, this car simply isn't built to be the fastest thing on the Autobahn. Think about it, how many buyers of GT-R worldwide would actually get to use their car on the autobahn, yes, even European owners! A very small handful. WHich is why only German manufacturers concentrate on that aspect.



    7.38min is IMHO little bit overoptimistic time...

    Even EVO stuff was carefull enough to said that final judgement needs to be saved for UK specs GT-R(February 2009) so, please try to understand my point-we are talking here about Japan specs GT-Rs...

    IMO GT-R is great car indeed(although I simply do not like the way it looks).

    Just I have a strange feeling that none of the European magazines will achive amazing times(with Euro GT-Rs) that are currently set by Japan GT-Rs...



    Fair comments...but what does it mean though ultimately even if the European spec cars aren't quite as fast? That the GT-R really has the potential as seen from their JDM cars, but is just detuned for Europe?

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Fuel consumption figures and CO2 emissions are still not known for Euro specs GT-R. Car weight is over 1700kg's so, CO2 emissions values needs to be TRUE ones.

    My point is different-do not be supriesed if Nissan decide to put little bit different values for power/torque(bigger!) then for Euro specs cars then for JDM cars.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Just I have a strange feeling that none of the European magazines will achive amazing times(with Euro GT-Rs) that are currently set by Japan GT-Rs...

    Kreso, I concluded this some time ago.The reality is Italian magazine find the Italian cars better and faster, German magazine find German cars better and faster and finally US magazines find the Corvette better and faster.

    As others have stated, the GT_R may serve as a wake up call to European manufacturers that world class performance can be had for a lot less money than what we are paying.

    Saurma could have tested the car in Japan but choose not do so. There is a reason for that and you know what it is.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Just I have a strange feeling that none of the European magazines will achive amazing times(with Euro GT-Rs) that are currently set by Japan GT-Rs...

    Kreso, I concluded this some time ago.The reality is Italian magazine find the Italian cars better and faster, German magazine find German cars better and faster and finally US magazines find the Corvette better and faster.

    As others have stated, the GT_R may serve as a wake up call to European manufacturers that world class performance can be had for a lot less money than what we are paying.

    Saurma could have tested the car in Japan but choose not do so. There is a reason for that and you know what it is.



    Which is why you guys should be reading Australian car magazines as we don't have any sports cars produced here - only big V8 sedans.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Just I have a strange feeling that none of the European magazines will achive amazing times(with Euro GT-Rs) that are currently set by Japan GT-Rs...

    Kreso, I concluded this some time ago.The reality is Italian magazine find the Italian cars better and faster, German magazine find German cars better and faster and finally US magazines find the Corvette better and faster.

    As others have stated, the GT_R may serve as a wake up call to European manufacturers that world class performance can be had for a lot less money than what we are paying.

    Saurma could have tested the car in Japan but choose not do so. There is a reason for that and you know what it is.



    Which is why you guys should be reading Australian car magazines as we don't have any sports cars produced here - only big V8 sedans.



    AND British magazine have adopted German cars as their own.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Just I have a strange feeling that none of the European magazines will achive amazing times(with Euro GT-Rs) that are currently set by Japan GT-Rs...

    Kreso, I concluded this some time ago.The reality is Italian magazine find the Italian cars better and faster, German magazine find German cars better and faster and finally US magazines find the Corvette better and faster.

    As others have stated, the GT_R may serve as a wake up call to European manufacturers that world class performance can be had for a lot less money than what we are paying.

    Saurma could have tested the car in Japan but choose not do so. There is a reason for that and you know what it is.



    Nick, Saurma could've tested it in Japan, but SA only tests cars that are AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET. Let's wait and see what the Euro GT-R does on the Ring. I have no doubt that it will beat the Turbo, but I'd like to see a legal car do it. Of course, as has been said countless times, the better it does, the better for us, because Porsche will have to do better to surpass it. It's no secret that the 997TT has a very flawed AWD setup and this just might be the required wake-up call.

    As for italian car mags, check out Automobilismo. Very unbiased and the same goes for Sport Auto. Just look at the Lambo NBR times.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Just one thing-facelifted 997 Turbo will be marginally faster on the Ring because of polished chassis setup but, belive it or not PTM setup will remain the same.

    Current discussion about GT-R remaind me about recent discussion that my good friend and I had about best current autobox... He claimed that AMG 7-G Tronic is the best one... I said Jaguar XKR ZF autobox(the same one is in DB9)... He said to me:"NO way that Jag autbox is more sporty and at the same time smooth as AMG one!"... I said:"Go ahead and test drive XKR..." After test drive he ordered XKR instead of CL63...
    So, my point is-that ugly GT-R could be THAT good indeed...

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just one thing-facelifted 997 Turbo will be marginally faster on the Ring because of polished chassis setup but, belive it or not PTM setup will remain the same.

    Current discussion about GT-R remaind me about recent discussion that my good friend and I had about best current autobox... He claimed that AMG 7-G Tronic is the best one... I said Jaguar XKR ZF autobox(the same one is in DB9)... He said to me:"NO way that Jag autbox is more sporty and at the same time smooth as AMG one!"... I said:"Go ahead and test drive XKR..." After test drive he ordered XKR instead of CL63...
    So, my point is-that ugly GT-R could be THAT good indeed...



    Kreso, facelift marginally faster than the current 997TT or faster than the GT-R?

    As for the PTM, can't they just reprogram the thing? It's just electronics, anyway .

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    The current 997TT NBR lap should be 7.42 (10s slower than 997GT2). But it is only 7.52. The new GT-R lap is probably 7.43-5, which makes sense as it is not that much heavier than the 997TT and tested cars were probably a little special... The facelift TT should be 7.38-40 thus settling all this performance discussion between the two cars. But it won't be. The TT is loosing massive ground vs all its competitors (Z06 GT-R LP560 F430scud).

    Porsche better sort this out asap, for all you know the Panamera TT might be faster

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    The current 997TT NBR lap should be 7.42 (10s slower than 997GT2). But it is only 7.52. The new GT-R lap is probably 7.43-5, which makes sense as it is not that much heavier than the 997TT and tested cars were probably a little special... The facelift TT should be 7.38-40 thus settling all this performance discussion between the two cars. But it won't be. The TT is loosing massive ground vs all its competitors (Z06 GT-R LP560 F430scud).

    Porsche better sort this out asap, for all you know the Panamera TT might be faster



    The management is home, but the heads ain't listening .

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Let's not forget about the major changes in the GTR

    1. Inline-6(2camshafts) to V6(4camshafts)
    2. 2.6L --> 3.8L
    3. 6-Spd Auto DCT gearbox
    4. 480hp down to the wheels not engine

    All of these must be considered, the interior won't hold up for very long. I had an R33 and it's nothing like Porsche's quality.

    I've been hearing rumours that the stock turbos are able to support upto 700hp (350hp/turbo), which is hard to believe.

    Let's just hope it won't end up like the RB26 engine and blow up at high boost

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    As for the PTM, can't they just reprogram the thing? It's just electronics, anyway .



    This is right on the mark. Hardware wise, the GT-R's AWD isn't even that ground-breaking. It can transfer up to 50% of power to the front open diff, via a series of hydraulically actuated clutches. There is no lateral torque biasing.

    The real magic appears to be with the programming - it would appear that programmers are doing more with the available sensors (reading yaw, etc.)

    Since the Turbo also has yaw sensors, one would imagine there is scope for improvement.

    But didn't they want to make the 997 Turbo a more "lively" car, compared to the 996 which was too "safe" for some people?

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Which is why you guys should be reading Australian car magazines as we don't have any sports cars produced here - only big V8 sedans.



    The first Australian test (Wheels, I think) of the GT-R in Japan gave a 0-100kph time of 4 seconds and 12.1 in the quarter mile. Two people in the car though.

    I doubt those figures are exciting enough for this crowd

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    DRA said:
    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Which is why you guys should be reading Australian car magazines as we don't have any sports cars produced here - only big V8 sedans.



    The first Australian test (Wheels, I think) of the GT-R in Japan gave a 0-100kph time of 4 seconds and 12.1 in the quarter mile. Two people in the car though.

    I doubt those figures are exciting enough for this crowd



    A very gentle start without launch control gave Edmunds similar results. I suspect launch control wasnt used here as well.

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    mv said:
    Quote:
    DRA said:
    Quote:
    WAY said:
    Which is why you guys should be reading Australian car magazines as we don't have any sports cars produced here - only big V8 sedans.



    The first Australian test (Wheels, I think) of the GT-R in Japan gave a 0-100kph time of 4 seconds and 12.1 in the quarter mile. Two people in the car though.

    I doubt those figures are exciting enough for this crowd



    A very gentle start without launch control gave Edmunds similar results. I suspect launch control wasnt used here as well.



    I don't know ... I can't remember them saying whether they used launch control or not. It may be worth mentioning, I think most Australian car mags have trouble reaching many of the times posted in overseas mags, even when they use local race car drivers as testers. Drivers with more mechanical sympathy might be a factor

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    From rennlist.com

    '' My buddy owns the shop where they recently dynoed a JDM GT-R customer car (not supplied by factory PR!) bought off a Japanese dealership and imported to US. He also dynoed a stock 997 Turbo. On the same day and the same dyno (a Mustang) they made the same power: 406whp. This was for an article for Edmunds Inside Line And in fact he said that the Porsche had more mid range power as you can see from the dynoplots in the article. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=125172

    The only explanation for the lap time differential has to be the set up of the diffs and the double clutch gearbox. You've got a similar scenario going on right now in the battle between the 08 Mitsu EVO MR (w/ SST) and the 08 Subaru STI. The Mitsu is 300lbs heavier than the STI has a smidge less power, yet is knocking a couple of seconds off the STI's lap time at Streets of Willow.

    Its either that, or Mitsubishi and Nissan are both running ringers w/ the boost turned up. They wouldn't do that would they?????
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    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    Quote:
    DRA said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    As for the PTM, can't they just reprogram the thing? It's just electronics, anyway .



    This is right on the mark. Hardware wise, the GT-R's AWD isn't even that ground-breaking. It can transfer up to 50% of power to the front open diff, via a series of hydraulically actuated clutches. There is no lateral torque biasing.

    The real magic appears to be with the programming - it would appear that programmers are doing more with the available sensors (reading yaw, etc.)

    Since the Turbo also has yaw sensors, one would imagine there is scope for improvement.

    But didn't they want to make the 997 Turbo a more "lively" car, compared to the 996 which was too "safe" for some people?



    People who are serious about tracking their 997TTs are installing 996TT-type AWD into their cars to replace the PTM. The Turbo is supposed to be the everyday supercar, not a tail-happy deathtrap . We have the GT2 for that .

    Re: Another 997TT vs GT-R article

    WE are talking NBR, not real track...

     
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