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    Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test included... - Excellent vid! Couldnt' agree more w/ Tiff on the CL65.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Sorry the link doesn't take you directly to the video. Select the Nov. 10th episode.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Sorry the link doesn't take you directly to the video. Select the Nov. 10th episode.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    Couldnt' agree more w/ Tiff on the CL65.




    You would say that, you're a beemer fan. I think its because you know that BMW have NO answer to AMG's 65, and are shaking in their boots as we speak, is that true for you as well..

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    Couldnt' agree more w/ Tiff on the CL65.




    You would say that, you're a beemer fan. I think its because you know that BMW have NO answer to AMG's 65, and are shaking in their boots as we speak, is that true for you as well..

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Ha ha ha,your'e funny. NO, there is and will be an answer to the "65" AMG's. And it's not just in the form of a BMW. But we will start off with the BMW M6, this car is probably lighter than both the SL and the CL. Not to mention the 500+ hp it's suppose to get from the 5.0+ liter V-10. I WON'T say anything about either car out performing any of the benz AMG's YET. Although I can't help but think they will. Audi has also got some pretty mean cars coming out too (only two as far as I know that are for sure). The V-10 engined S8 (get this, the RS8 is suppose to have bi turbo's, think the Audi Le Mans concept and the Nuvolari) and S6 (RS6 will get the same treatment).
    The thing is no matter how insane AMG's cars maybe, they will never be M cars. And what I mean when I say that is that they won't have the same dynamics as any of the M's, the handaling, steering, etc.
    I have also heard from many freinds from abroad (two of which own E55's) say that when they turn off ESP or DSC programs the car is just simply to overwhelmed by it's engine. As where I can turn off the DSC button in my M5 and have fun and not have to worry about a thing. Many of you will never understand what I am talking about and thats ok. You are all hardcore AMG fans, I like AMG too. Just not as much as BMW M.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Ha ha ha,your'e funny. NO, there is and will be an answer to the "65" AMG's. And it's not just in the form of a BMW. But we will start off with the BMW M6, this car is probably lighter than both the SL and the CL. Not to mention the 500+ hp it's suppose to get from the 5.0+ liter V-10. I WON'T say anything about either car out performing any of the benz AMG's YET. Although I can't help but think they will. Audi has also got some pretty mean cars coming out too (only two as far as I know that are for sure). The V-10 engined S8 (get this, the RS8 is suppose to have bi turbo's, think the Audi Le Mans concept and the Nuvolari) and S6 (RS6 will get the same treatment).
    The thing is no matter how insane AMG's cars maybe, they will never be M cars. And what I mean when I say that is that they won't have the same dynamics as any of the M's, the handaling, steering, etc.
    I have also heard from many freinds from abroad (two of which own E55's) say that when they turn off ESP or DSC programs the car is just simply to overwhelmed by it's engine. As where I can turn off the DSC button in my M5 and have fun and not have to worry about a thing. Many of you will never understand what I am talking about and thats ok. You are all hardcore AMG fans, I like AMG too. Just not as much as BMW M.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    We'll see. Its good that BMW are packing 500bhp into a 4 door saloon, just wait for Stuttgart's answer...

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    We'll see. Its good that BMW are packing 500bhp into a 4 door saloon, just wait for Stuttgart's answer...

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Nowadays, I really don't care what the spec says. To me, it's really more about how the car changes its posture from entering, "through the apex," and then exiting the corner with my minute little changes to the throttle and streering. Or how it pleasantly accelerates and then stops as I intended on a modulated braking. Simple as that. Specs don't really tell you about the perfect setting of the suspension, how fluidly the car shifts its ceter of gravity, or how balanced the car is, which all attributes to the pleasant feeling of driving it.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Nowadays, I really don't care what the spec says. To me, it's really more about how the car changes its posture from entering, "through the apex," and then exiting the corner with my minute little changes to the throttle and streering. Or how it pleasantly accelerates and then stops as I intended on a modulated braking. Simple as that. Specs don't really tell you about the perfect setting of the suspension, how fluidly the car shifts its ceter of gravity, or how balanced the car is, which all attributes to the pleasant feeling of driving it.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    Many of you will never understand what I am talking about and thats ok. You are all hardcore AMG fans, I like AMG too. Just not as much as BMW M.



    It is the same difference as with a BMW M car and a Porsche. Most BMW drivers never understand what is special about a Porsche 996 or even a Boxster...unless they drive one. I remember the words of a friend who owns a BMW M3 E46 (not the CSL!) after a test drive with a 996 C2 with M030 suspension: "Nice, very nice but too stiff".

    I think we have 3 categories of drivers and cars:
    1. comfort oriented drivers who want to be fast but really don't understand the meaning of a good suspension system, traction and good brakes: the AMG Mercedes drivers.
    2. comfort oriented drivers who want to be fast and sometimes also want to be even more fast, making compromises regarding comfort and steering to get the most sporty feeling in the world, THEIR world: the BMW drivers.
    3. drivers who don't give a damn about comfort, who don't give a damn about noise, who don't give a damn about money and who don't give a damn about looks: the Porsche drivers.

    Between all three categories, there are also mixed and intermediate categories. It is also interesting that Porsche and Ferrari drivers are usually much more open minded towards other car brands because most Porsche/Ferrari drivers had owned (or still own) a Mercedes or BMW as a second car, company car or family car. Mercedes drivers usually think that they drive the best car in the world, no matter if it is about performance, comfort or whatsoever and BMW drivers think there is no sportier car in the world than a BMW.

    Did I serve all prejudices?

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    Many of you will never understand what I am talking about and thats ok. You are all hardcore AMG fans, I like AMG too. Just not as much as BMW M.



    It is the same difference as with a BMW M car and a Porsche. Most BMW drivers never understand what is special about a Porsche 996 or even a Boxster...unless they drive one. I remember the words of a friend who owns a BMW M3 E46 (not the CSL!) after a test drive with a 996 C2 with M030 suspension: "Nice, very nice but too stiff".

    I think we have 3 categories of drivers and cars:
    1. comfort oriented drivers who want to be fast but really don't understand the meaning of a good suspension system, traction and good brakes: the AMG Mercedes drivers.
    2. comfort oriented drivers who want to be fast and sometimes also want to be even more fast, making compromises regarding comfort and steering to get the most sporty feeling in the world, THEIR world: the BMW drivers.
    3. drivers who don't give a damn about comfort, who don't give a damn about noise, who don't give a damn about money and who don't give a damn about looks: the Porsche drivers.

    Between all three categories, there are also mixed and intermediate categories. It is also interesting that Porsche and Ferrari drivers are usually much more open minded towards other car brands because most Porsche/Ferrari drivers had owned (or still own) a Mercedes or BMW as a second car, company car or family car. Mercedes drivers usually think that they drive the best car in the world, no matter if it is about performance, comfort or whatsoever and BMW drivers think there is no sportier car in the world than a BMW.

    Did I serve all prejudices?

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    Mercedes drivers usually think that they drive the best car in the world, no matter if it is about performance, comfort or whatsoever




    And why shouldn't they?

    To drive a car which carries the insignia of the most famous and one of the oldest car companies in the world, isn't that the ultimate dream for any man? A name which carries so much meaning, so much prestige does it not..?

    "I drive a Mercedes-Benz"


    Surely there is no finer International language with which one can communicate such thoughts about oneself to another being....?


    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    Mercedes drivers usually think that they drive the best car in the world, no matter if it is about performance, comfort or whatsoever




    And why shouldn't they?

    To drive a car which carries the insignia of the most famous and one of the oldest car companies in the world, isn't that the ultimate dream for any man? A name which carries so much meaning, so much prestige does it not..?

    "I drive a Mercedes-Benz"


    Surely there is no finer International language with which one can communicate such thoughts about oneself to another being....?


    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    And why shouldn't they?





    Bilal, it is about growing up, learning and making choices based on experience. I know this sounds stupid (it sounded stupid to me when my father tried to teach me that 20 years ago ) but it is really a fact.
    My first car was a used Lancia Beta Coupe. My dealer forgot to fill oil in when he sold me the car, so I had an engine brakedown three days later. Happy me, I almost killed myself with that 115 HP car at age 18. Not many cars ran over 200 kph in 1983 as you might not know. Then, I got myself a new Fiat 127 Sport with 75 HP. A rocket by that time, I embarrased a lot of BMW and Mercedes drivers (of course not sports cars... ). I was so happy, thinking I own the best car in the world. Then I switched to the Opel Kadett GSE (D model). After an accident (not my fault), I got myself the fastest compact by that time (top speed 203 kph), an Opel Kadett GSi (E model) with 115 HP but fantastic aerodynamics.
    I had this car with me when I worked in Eastern Europe behind the iron curtain and especially Americans loved it, the color LCD speedo cluster impressed a lot of people by that time. One of the Marine security guards of the US embassy took my car for a ride (illegally of course) and came back after an hour(!) with a big grin on his face. Since that time, I had a lot of friends at the Marine House.
    Then, I got myself a Isuzu Trooper TD SUV because of the bad streets in Eastern Europe. When I got back to Germany, I switched to a VW Scirocco GTi 16V, also one of the fastest "payable" cars by that time with 139 HP.
    After the Scirocco I got into Motorsports and bought myself a Lancia Delta HF Integrale of which I owned almost all different models (Integrale 16V, Sedici, Evo, etc., the most powerful one had 280 HP with 1250 kg weight!), including professionally driving a N group rallye car in the national rally championship. After the Delta Integrale, I got myself a Thema 16 V Turbo, a rocket limousine which was really really fast by that time. 0-180 kph in 22 seconds, even a Porsche couldn't really follow me. After the Lancias, I got a Toyota Celica 4WD Turbo. This was a very nice car, I only had to turn a screw in the engine bay and got another 50 HP instantly. But it lacked soul, the brakes were awful and I went again for a Lancia Delta HF Integrale. Then, I had to work again in Eastern Europe and I went for a Mercedes 190 E 2.6, a very nice car for that purpose. It had no catalytic converter and ran like hell, especially because it had the sport setup. Again, all this happened more than 14 years(!) ago.
    At that time, my father also owned a Mercedes 280 SE and then a Mercedes 560 SE.
    After the 190 E 2.6, I got myself the first BMW M3 E36 in Bavaria thanks to a good family friend who owns a BMW dealership in my town. I drove this car almost 4 years and made a lot of Mercedes and Porsche drivers look foolish.
    Then, I testdrove a Porsche 993 Targa and fell in love with it. Not because it was a Porsche but because the driving feel was completely different from my BMW M3. The Porsche felt again like a real sports car, really challenging, even if it wasn't really faster than my M3. And then, I stood with Porsche for many years owning a 996 C2, 996 C4 with powerkit, 996 Turbo RS-Tuning but I also drove a C 280 E and CLK 320 as company cars.

    I've driven (but didn't own) the Lancia Thema 8.32, Lancia Delta HF Intergrale Evo2, VW Golf GTd, Porsche 928 S, Mercedes ML320, Mercedes ML400, Mercedes E 270 CDi (W210 and W211), Mercedes E 240 (W211), Audi A3 1.8, Audi S3, Audi S8, Audi RS2, Audi RS4, Audi RS6, Porsche 993 C2, Porsche 964 RS, Porsche 964 C4, BMW 325 i Cab, Fiat Ritmo 130 TC, Fiat Coupe 20V, BMW 735i (older model), BMW M5 (older and current model), VW Golf GTi, VW Golf VR6, Mercedes SL55, Mercedes SL500 (older and current one), Mercedes SL600, Mercedes CLK55 AMG, Mercedes S400, Mercedes S320, Porsche 996 GT2, Porsche 996 Turbo X50/X73, Porsche 959(!), Porsche Cayenne S, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, Mercedes ML430, Mercedes G400, Mercedes 560 SE, Mercedes 280 SE, BMW 320 i (older model), BMW M3 (older model, E30 I think?), Porsche GT3 (older and current model) and many others I probably can't remember anymore (my fingers already hurt from typing ).

    To finish the whole story: you have to own and also drive lots of cars in your life to be able to tell which one is best or at least which one suits your needs (and your soul ) best.
    I came to the conclusion that I'm a Porsche man. The E55 is a very nice car but it lacks soul. You have to love your car to be able to really enjoy it. At age 38, I can't love a BMW, Mercedes, Opel or VW anymore. It is like discovering a good wine or a good restaurant. You come back to it all the time.

    That said, Bilal, I think you need some time to discover the perfect car for you. You love Mercedes and this is OK to me but I bet in 10 years things will look different, especially if you have the money to be able to choose.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    Quote:
    And why shouldn't they?





    Bilal, it is about growing up, learning and making choices based on experience. I know this sounds stupid (it sounded stupid to me when my father tried to teach me that 20 years ago ) but it is really a fact.
    My first car was a used Lancia Beta Coupe. My dealer forgot to fill oil in when he sold me the car, so I had an engine brakedown three days later. Happy me, I almost killed myself with that 115 HP car at age 18. Not many cars ran over 200 kph in 1983 as you might not know. Then, I got myself a new Fiat 127 Sport with 75 HP. A rocket by that time, I embarrased a lot of BMW and Mercedes drivers (of course not sports cars... ). I was so happy, thinking I own the best car in the world. Then I switched to the Opel Kadett GSE (D model). After an accident (not my fault), I got myself the fastest compact by that time (top speed 203 kph), an Opel Kadett GSi (E model) with 115 HP but fantastic aerodynamics.
    I had this car with me when I worked in Eastern Europe behind the iron curtain and especially Americans loved it, the color LCD speedo cluster impressed a lot of people by that time. One of the Marine security guards of the US embassy took my car for a ride (illegally of course) and came back after an hour(!) with a big grin on his face. Since that time, I had a lot of friends at the Marine House.
    Then, I got myself a Isuzu Trooper TD SUV because of the bad streets in Eastern Europe. When I got back to Germany, I switched to a VW Scirocco GTi 16V, also one of the fastest "payable" cars by that time with 139 HP.
    After the Scirocco I got into Motorsports and bought myself a Lancia Delta HF Integrale of which I owned almost all different models (Integrale 16V, Sedici, Evo, etc., the most powerful one had 280 HP with 1250 kg weight!), including professionally driving a N group rallye car in the national rally championship. After the Delta Integrale, I got myself a Thema 16 V Turbo, a rocket limousine which was really really fast by that time. 0-180 kph in 22 seconds, even a Porsche couldn't really follow me. After the Lancias, I got a Toyota Celica 4WD Turbo. This was a very nice car, I only had to turn a screw in the engine bay and got another 50 HP instantly. But it lacked soul, the brakes were awful and I went again for a Lancia Delta HF Integrale. Then, I had to work again in Eastern Europe and I went for a Mercedes 190 E 2.6, a very nice car for that purpose. It had no catalytic converter and ran like hell, especially because it had the sport setup. Again, all this happened more than 14 years(!) ago.
    At that time, my father also owned a Mercedes 280 SE and then a Mercedes 560 SE.
    After the 190 E 2.6, I got myself the first BMW M3 E36 in Bavaria thanks to a good family friend who owns a BMW dealership in my town. I drove this car almost 4 years and made a lot of Mercedes and Porsche drivers look foolish.
    Then, I testdrove a Porsche 993 Targa and fell in love with it. Not because it was a Porsche but because the driving feel was completely different from my BMW M3. The Porsche felt again like a real sports car, really challenging, even if it wasn't really faster than my M3. And then, I stood with Porsche for many years owning a 996 C2, 996 C4 with powerkit, 996 Turbo RS-Tuning but I also drove a C 280 E and CLK 320 as company cars.

    I've driven (but didn't own) the Lancia Thema 8.32, Lancia Delta HF Intergrale Evo2, VW Golf GTd, Porsche 928 S, Mercedes ML320, Mercedes ML400, Mercedes E 270 CDi (W210 and W211), Mercedes E 240 (W211), Audi A3 1.8, Audi S3, Audi S8, Audi RS2, Audi RS4, Audi RS6, Porsche 993 C2, Porsche 964 RS, Porsche 964 C4, BMW 325 i Cab, Fiat Ritmo 130 TC, Fiat Coupe 20V, BMW 735i (older model), BMW M5 (older and current model), VW Golf GTi, VW Golf VR6, Mercedes SL55, Mercedes SL500 (older and current one), Mercedes SL600, Mercedes CLK55 AMG, Mercedes S400, Mercedes S320, Porsche 996 GT2, Porsche 996 Turbo X50/X73, Porsche 959(!), Porsche Cayenne S, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, Mercedes ML430, Mercedes G400, Mercedes 560 SE, Mercedes 280 SE, BMW 320 i (older model), BMW M3 (older model, E30 I think?), Porsche GT3 (older and current model) and many others I probably can't remember anymore (my fingers already hurt from typing ).

    To finish the whole story: you have to own and also drive lots of cars in your life to be able to tell which one is best or at least which one suits your needs (and your soul ) best.
    I came to the conclusion that I'm a Porsche man. The E55 is a very nice car but it lacks soul. You have to love your car to be able to really enjoy it. At age 38, I can't love a BMW, Mercedes, Opel or VW anymore. It is like discovering a good wine or a good restaurant. You come back to it all the time.

    That said, Bilal, I think you need some time to discover the perfect car for you. You love Mercedes and this is OK to me but I bet in 10 years things will look different, especially if you have the money to be able to choose.

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    I'm completely speechless RC.

    I don't know what to say.

    But I know you're right, things will change in the future.

    But jeeze, you've driven every car on Earth!

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    I'm completely speechless RC.

    I don't know what to say.

    But I know you're right, things will change in the future.

    But jeeze, you've driven every car on Earth!

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    True, true my freinds, driving a car can totally alter previous perceptions. Looking at specs does nothing, but can tell you something.

    On the other hand I am considering an S4(B6) avant, not as hardcore as an M3 or an M5, or even an E55. But it's the most uber wagon available to us here in the states.

    RC, how do you see things 10 years from now if you had to take a stab at it?

    Re: Fifth Gear video - CL65 AMG road test..

    True, true my freinds, driving a car can totally alter previous perceptions. Looking at specs does nothing, but can tell you something.

    On the other hand I am considering an S4(B6) avant, not as hardcore as an M3 or an M5, or even an E55. But it's the most uber wagon available to us here in the states.

    RC, how do you see things 10 years from now if you had to take a stab at it?

     
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