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    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    RIP Porsche, Lamborghini and Audi.

    The merger or VAG and PAG will be the first step of VAG walking its path to become the GM of Europe. Audi, Lamborghini and Porsche can impossibly co-exist in the same company portfolio without heavy cannibalisation. Matters have already turned sour with the R8 and Gallardo situation with the A8 next in-line to face competition from its cousin -- the Panamera.

    I foresee stifled creativity as ever product decision will be a democratic decision between a staggering number of CEO, board members, product strategists and executives. Most cars will result in having as much personality as a product by Unilever or Proctor and Gamble. With VAG absorbing Porsche, the company will officially be too big and complex for its own good. This is exactly what brought GM down, not the competitors, but GM itself -- too many managerial levels, too many conflicting brands and loss or touch with essence of car manufacturing.

    BMW AG is exemplary with its 3 brands that have distinguishable customers; low end segment – Mini, premium segment – BMW, prestige segment – Rolls-Royce. All three manufacturers can operate with an ample degree of independence without running the risk of conflicting with brands under the same umbrella.

     


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Very interesting point of view.

    I hope VW would just concentrate on 911 and Boxster as the only lines of products and leave the SUV and 4-door sedan to AUDI and VW.  I just hope they won't come up with a mixture of a car called AuLamSche for audi, lambo and porsche Smiley.


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    Happy Driving

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    True Porsche sportscar enthusiasts may benefit from the new arrangement if the company narrows its focus to performance-oriented cars- i.e goodbye Cayenne and Panamera.

    The worst-case scenario would be a Porsche badge stamped on every conceivable VW make and model to simply sell more cars.

    Time will tell what path the new management will pursue...


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Emperor:

    RIP Porsche, Lamborghini and Audi.

    The merger or VAG and PAG will be the first step of VAG walking its path to become the GM of Europe. Audi, Lamborghini and Porsche can impossibly co-exist in the same company portfolio without heavy cannibalisation. Matters have already turned sour with the R8 and Gallardo situation with the A8 next in-line to face competition from its cousin -- the Panamera.

    I foresee stifled creativity as ever product decision will be a democratic decision between a staggering number of CEO, board members, product strategists and executives. Most cars will result in having as much personality as a product by Unilever or Proctor and Gamble. With VAG absorbing Porsche, the company will officially be too big and complex for its own good. This is exactly what brought GM down, not the competitors, but GM itself -- too many managerial levels, too many conflicting brands and loss or touch with essence of car manufacturing.

    BMW AG is exemplary with its 3 brands that have distinguishable customers; low end segment – Mini, premium segment – BMW, prestige segment – Rolls-Royce. All three manufacturers can operate with an ample degree of independence without running the risk of conflicting with brands under the same umbrella.

     

    BMW,MBZ and VW will all be combined in the next 10-20 years . Count on it. By then there will probably be only 4- 6 global mega car companies left , each with myriad niches/brands .
     

    Heck , by then " car companies " may be virtual marketing firms only , with everything from  engineering to manufacturing outsourced to private entities such as today's Magna firm so as not to deal with " legacy " costs in this capital intensive but elephantine biz.


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    I tend to agree with Emperor FWIW. I think this means erosion of the Porsche brand, since VW and Porsche have "collaborated so well together over the years on several cars' (outgoing Porsche CEO), that Porsche will become the luxury model in the VW lineup and will be sold at VW dealerships.

    And as for BMW - when have they ever designed a car that was beautiful as a 911. the M!?


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Ron (Houston):

    Very interesting point of view.

    I hope VW would just concentrate on 911 and Boxster as the only lines of products and leave the SUV and 4-door sedan to AUDI and VW.  I just hope they won't come up with a mixture of a car called AuLamSche for audi, lambo and porsche Smiley.

     

    The nightmare of an AuLamSche might be realised in a few years time, especially when VAG have already conceived a Lambaudi(LP560) and Audigini(R8 V10). No to mention the Bentley Continental GT which is merely a VW schnitzel from Thursday, reheated and sprinkled with British grown parsleySmiley. Major corporations suffer from astronomial overheads which are best covered by cutting corners through platform sharing and if Porsche and VW join hands in an unholy matrimony, the 911 will be the one and only "unique" car -- this because it's RWD and can thus share very little with cars sporting a different configuration. All other cars, R8/Gallardo, Phaeton/Flyingspur, A8/Arnage/Panamera, Q7/Toureg/Cayenne, A4/Passat, TT/Boxster and Golf/A4 can share component on an infinite number of levels

    Narrowing the Porsche line-up down to the Boxster and 911 would be an option, but not a viable one given that the Boxster and TT would conform into an indentical car with different packaging and options. Porsche walking on the thin line between survival and bankruptsy in the later 1980 was the effect of the limited product offerings. As extraordinary as the 911 is, it does a poor job supporting an entire corporation on its own. This because of the each generation is almost indifferent to its successor and predeccessor. Sure there are techological improvements to speak of as well as a few more buttons and fancier head/tail light -- but to the general public, they all look the same. Without any new product supporting the 911, there will be close to zero people coming in through the doors of Porsche showrooms. Every year there either needs to be a facelift, a new model or a generation presented in order to excite customers and get them to trade up or exsiting customers to buy a second car. Besides that, Porsche is a for ever changed company after the smashing success of the Cayenne. They can impossibally turn their back to making money off a four door car. It's the Cayenne that single handedly opened the gates to premium 70k SUVs.

    As much as I share the sentiment of many of you fellow Porsche enthusiasts, we shall not forget that Porsche are a company, and one that needs to survive. The airline and automotive industries constitutes as the most cut-throat industries. One year you're floating on skyrocketing sales and the next year, a wrong decision can lead to a speedy journey towards chapter 11. Porsche have tasted both sides -- last year they were floating on clouds as a hedge fund, and today they are their knees with an uncertain future ahead.


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    BMW = Big Money Waste. Smiley Smiley


    --

    1997 993 TT Proto 3.8L 700HP

    2005 996 TSCab EVO GT700

    2006 Noble M400 "M600" 573RWHP

    2007 Audi RS4 MTM exhaust/clutch/LWFW


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Very well said Emperor.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    This is the end of Porsche as we know it, Piech will not let Porsche the company flourish, I see him just letting Porsche sit in the corner and get fed AFTER Audi Lambo Seat VW etc.

     

    I have to say sadly I think I just bought my last Porsche ever, Piech is going to ruin Porsche's brand, name, reputation and quality. At least the 997TT is the gold standard for all-weather, all-year driving supercar, and I am grateful that I own one.

     


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Whoopsy:

    This is the end of Porsche as we know it, Piech will not let Porsche the company flourish, I see him just letting Porsche sit in the corner and get fed AFTER Audi Lambo Seat VW etc.

     

    I have to say sadly I think I just bought my last Porsche ever, Piech is going to ruin Porsche's brand, name, reputation and quality. At least the 997TT is the gold standard for all-weather, all-year driving supercar, and I am grateful that I own one.

     

    Piech IMO is not anti-Porsche as far as the brand is concerned. He just opposed the already departed management. He has many achievements to show in his early years with Porsche where he made his name and I believe the brand is close to his heart. Moreover, in all brands he got involved in the VW palette he managed to raise their quality and level of engineering. For me VW Group products are the best in the world in their separate segments.

    So, let's not be emotional but wait and see. Anyway given the mess WW had created there was no other option for porsche to survive.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Although I understand where folks are coming from in their concerns about platform sharing and potentially identical cars between brands, I do wonder if the fear has taken a life of its own. For example, do any of the bloggers here seriously think that the TT and the Boxster appeal to the same enthusiasts? The same question applies to the R8/R10 and 997. To me the named Audis and Porsches appeal to very different tastes (e.g. I didn't even stop to consider Audi when I ordered my car). Given the above, I'm sure that the Supervisory Board at VW knows how foolish it would be to slap a Porsche badge on an Audi and vice versa. ...Now what GM was thinking with their brands was a whole different story!


    --
    2008 Boxster S

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    awai08:

    To me the named Audis and Porsches appeal to very different tastes (e.g. I didn't even stop to consider Audi when I ordered my car).

    Very true, I know people with given budgets that prefer a pre-owned, sometimes older model,  Boxster/Cayman rather than a new TT.

     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    reginos:

    Piech IMO is not anti-Porsche as far as the brand is concerned. He just opposed the already departed management. He has many achievements to show in his early years with Porsche where he made his name and I believe the brand is close to his heart.

    I agree, not only that given their history and professional track record, who do people think is more of a sportcar fan Piech or Wiedeking?Smiley also Piech has been involved and has greater ties with Porsche for decades before WW.

    One thing is the power struggle between Piech and Porsche "families" but that is not to be confused with Piech being an enemy to Porsche AG, Piech's antagonism in this situation is with the Porsche family (and WW because he represents their side) but not Porsche the car maker whom I think given his history should care for very much.


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    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    awai08:

    Although I understand where folks are coming from in their concerns about platform sharing and potentially identical cars between brands, I do wonder if the fear has taken a life of its own. For example, do any of the bloggers here seriously think that the TT and the Boxster appeal to the same enthusiasts? The same question applies to the R8/R10 and 997. To me the named Audis and Porsches appeal to very different tastes (e.g. I didn't even stop to consider Audi when I ordered my car). Given the above, I'm sure that the Supervisory Board at VW knows how foolish it would be to slap a Porsche badge on an Audi and vice versa. ...Now what GM was thinking with their brands was a whole different story!

    I agree, its not like BMW vs Audi, were sport models are concerned there is little overlap between Porsche and VW, even the Boxster has no relation to the TT, one is a front engines front wheel drive 4 cilinder entrty model and the other a mid-engined higer end rear wheel drive car. Porsche's sportcars are very unique part of why Porsche is so profitable, not to mention the 911 (everything from chasis to engine has to be developed especifically for it, it cannot use a mid-engined's car chasis or V8 engine) and yet its versatile enough to appeal to a broad spectrum of buyers (Carrera, GT3, Turbo, Cab, AWD, etc)

    And also I think people are not realising that in those models were there can be part sharing between VW and Porsche, its going on already Smiley (chasis, engines, trannies, electronic interior gadgets, etc) for the sake of "independance". I don't think much will change in that respect than how it already is now.


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    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    awai08:

    Although I understand where folks are coming from in their concerns about platform sharing and potentially identical cars between brands, I do wonder if the fear has taken a life of its own. For example, do any of the bloggers here seriously think that the TT and the Boxster appeal to the same enthusiasts? The same question applies to the R8/R10 and 997. To me the named Audis and Porsches appeal to very different tastes (e.g. I didn't even stop to consider Audi when I ordered my car). Given the above, I'm sure that the Supervisory Board at VW knows how foolish it would be to slap a Porsche badge on an Audi and vice versa. ...Now what GM was thinking with their brands was a whole different story!

     

    Don't forget that consumers cross-shop and do to some extent evaluate alternatives. Although a 911 is a 911, it doesn't mean that a prospective C4S buyer will turn their back on an R8 V8. The R8 has distrubted the balance of VAG sportscar line up, it rival both Porsches and Lambos. Even Porsce enthusiasts have been fazed by its looks and performance. An individual's appreciation for 911s don't automatically result in them never buying a car from a similar manufacturer.

    Also you need to bare in mind that not all sportscar customers are hardcore petrol heads. A signifigant proportion of them are football players, people with newly aquired wealth and others who simply want to enjoy the thrills of a sports car. And they evaluate their options with little bias.

    Porsche and Audi does now overlap with the introduction of the Panamera and R8, though it's worth mentioning that rivalry is not intense as the R8 is not produced in the same numbers as the 911. But it is sure very interesting to see what VAG has in mind as far as the R8-Gallardo relationship goes.


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Emperor:

    Porsche and Audi does now overlap with the introduction of the Panamera and R8, though it's worth mentioning that rivalry is not intense as the R8 is not produced in the same numbers as the 911. But it is sure very interesting to see what VAG has in mind as far as the R8-Gallardo relationship goes.

     

    The Porsche -Audi rivalry would have developed much fiercer if Porsche stayed independent. In future, because the money will go into the same "pocket" VW-Porsche people will think more deliberately how to segment the potential market in order to avoid possible cannibalization.

    As regards the Lamborghini vs. R8, observing the people who drive Lamborghinis (in central London at least that I know) , none of them would be seen in an Audi! Lamborghini is  not bought as an automobile it is a luxurious object with little utility like a $50.000 watch. Of course there are exceptions, but these exist to reinforce the rule.

     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    reginos:

    I don't agree with you as regards the mid-engined platform. A sportscar manufacturer must offer a mid-engined coupe with engines of high PS and price it accordingly. A 400PS Cayman (or similar) could be priced at 911 prices. Then the customer picks and chooses.

    Also I would like to see a minimal Boxster/Cayman  very lightweight and sharp with a small engine similar to Lotus Elise for those who don't care about luxuries but are track oriented or want a weekend fun car.

     


    You don't really believe someone would choose a Cayman over a 911, if they're priced the same and have the same power, do you? 

    The 911 is a legend, the Cayman already has the reputation of a "poor man's 911". I doubt that many buyers would overlook that and go for the Cayman instead, just to be MAYBE a second faster on the Nordschleife. So far, Porsche has proved pretty well that the rear engine concept works, the new 997 GT3 MkII is a very good example for it, the track time of this car is spectacular.

    Volkswagen needs to earn money with Porsche or AT LEAST, they need not to make a loss. Porsche's clever Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter weren't able to do that, they didn't make money with cars but with "financial games" of a sort or another. This is actually why Porsche HAD to try to take over Volkswagen and I honestly doubt that Mr. Piech was NOT involved in this from the start. It went downhill when the VW union and local politicians firmly opposed it and when Mr. Piech realized what kind of risk is involved if the takeover fails. Mr. Piech holds a huge slice of the Porsche shares cake, so I doubt it that he didn't know what is going on or even that he opposed the whole takeover trial from the start. It was a big game and Porsche lost, now the Porsche family very likely needs to pump fresh "private" money into Porsche if they want to keep the company only slightly independent. In the end, I still think that Porsche is going to be a fully integrated VW company but it isn't my thing to speculate.

    Today, a german magazine claimed that Porsche has much more debt than initially anticipated, so I guess that the next couple of weeks and months, especially after the german elections end of September, will be very very interesting for the future of Porsche.

    One thing is for sure: Porsche will NOT stay the same anymore, there will be changes and I'm pretty sure that some of these changes will involve cutting down model lines, production locations and workforce. Time will tell.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    RC:

     


    You don't really believe someone would choose a Cayman over a 911, if they're priced the same and have the same power, do you? 

    The 911 is a legend, the Cayman already has the reputation of a "poor man's 911". I doubt that many buyers would overlook that and go for the Cayman instead, just to be MAYBE a second faster on the Nordschleife. So far, Porsche has proved pretty well that the rear engine concept works, the new 997 GT3 MkII is a very good example for it, the track time of this car is spectacular.

    Volkswagen needs to earn money with Porsche or AT LEAST, they need not to make a loss. Porsche's clever Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter weren't able to do that, they didn't make money with cars but with "financial games" of a sort or another. This is actually why Porsche HAD to try to take over Volkswagen and I honestly doubt that Mr. Piech was NOT involved in this from the start. It went downhill when the VW union and local politicians firmly opposed it and when Mr. Piech realized what kind of risk is involved if the takeover fails. Mr. Piech holds a huge slice of the Porsche shares cake, so I doubt it that he didn't know what is going on or even that he opposed the whole takeover trial from the start. It was a big game and Porsche lost, now the Porsche family very likely needs to pump fresh "private" money into Porsche if they want to keep the company only slightly independent. In the end, I still think that Porsche is going to be a fully integrated VW company but it isn't my thing to speculate.

    Today, a german magazine claimed that Porsche has much more debt than initially anticipated, so I guess that the next couple of weeks and months, especially after the german elections end of September, will be very very interesting for the future of Porsche.

    One thing is for sure: Porsche will NOT stay the same anymore, there will be changes and I'm pretty sure that some of these changes will involve cutting down model lines, production locations and workforce. Time will tell.

    The Cayman is 911's poor relation because it is deliberately kept low in the PS hierarchy. A 400+PS Cayman wouldn't be viewed in the same light as now. You must remember too the time Porsche produced ther 944 Turbo and turbo S with the same PS as the 911 of the time. Both cars were respected and sold.

    Another weakness of WW, besides his "casino business strategy" was his lack of diplomacy and sensitivity in dealing with VW workers, management and Saxony politicians. His initial declarations about "sacred cows" and "no more toys" etc. were totaly premature, out of place and out of time and they started the personality clashes with Herr Osterloh and consequently President Wulff (who likes the workers' votes) and of course Piech himself. Very immature in my way of thinking.

    I hope that a fresh page begins now, although the huge debt (some talk of more than 11billion Euros?) will make the any future solution difficult.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    reginos:

    Another weakness of WW, besides his "casino business strategy" was his lack of diplomacy and sensitivity in dealing with VW workers, management and Saxony politicians. His initial declarations about "sacred cows" and "no more toys" etc. were totaly premature, out of place and out of time and they started the personality clashes with Herr Osterloh and consequently President Wulff (who likes the workers' votes) and of course Piech himself. Very immature in my way of thinking.


     

    I know that the media mentions this over and over again but this wasn't really the issue here, it was a poker game from the start. I also doubt that Mr. Piech was NOT informed about what WW and CFO Härter were planning, they had the green light from the Porsche family and this involves Mr. Piech too. Personally, I think that Mr. Piech was actually the trojan horse inside VW and not the Mr. Wiedeking's adversary at the beginning. It may have changed when Mr. Piech realized how big the risk is, especially after the worldwide economic situation went down the drain.

    Dr. Wiedeking's "attitude" towards Mr. Wullf and union members was necessary because they opposed this deal from the start, there was no friendly way to say: "hi there, I'm Wendelin, your friendly Porsche CEO and I'm going to take over Volkswagen, like it or not". Mr. Wulff was actualyl a puppy of the unions, despite that the fact that he is a conservative politician. We have general elections end of September and I suppose he was already thinking "big". Another problem was Mr. Winterkorn, the VW CEO. It seems that he firmly opposed the VW takeover because he was afraid of lossing his job. Apparently there were strong rumors during the talks that Dr. Wiedeking wants to become the new VW boss.

    Right now, I think that VW will trim down Porsche in a way or another but at the same time, they want to expand production numbers. I don't think that 100000 is enough for VW, I suppose the want to push Porsche towards 150000 cars per year and more. This can't be done with a bunch of 150000+ EUR cars, this can only be done on the lower price range "front". Meaning: I don't expect now Porsche to lower their prices but I expect to see more entry-level models and more "less options, less money" models.

    Porsche needs to earn money with cars, it can't go on like it went on for the past couple of years. I also think that VW is going to try to implement as many INVISIBLE VW/AUdI parts into the Porsche models as possible to save cost. Like I said: time will tell. It won't be easy though.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Thanks for the interesting analysis. A  telenovela could be written around these personalities and this story.

    If the Panamera sells the scheduled minimum 20.000 units plus another 10.000  the inevitable Panamera coupe, Porsche will be near the 130.000 units already, world economy permitting of course.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    From the beginning it has always been the Porsche family vs the Piech family, WW and Harter are the front men for the Porsche family in their scheme to take over VW. Instead of Porsche family taking the embarassing blame for doing so behind the Piech family, WW and Harter take the blame be comes the fall guy, with a golden parachute of course to keep quiet.

    Ferdinand Piech has always goes against Porsche family decisions, he might be a extended family member but that's about all there is. When he realize what the Porsche family was trying to do, he saw an opening to hit back and exact revenge on the Porsche family, just check out his VAG product strategy, it's gunning at Porsche's products at every level, do we honestly see him changing his product mix at VAG to accomondate Porsche into VAG? Also look at the motorsports side of things, do one see him pulling back Audi to allow Porsche to 'continue' it's racing heritage at the sports car level? Porsche will never flourish under him.

    Piech loves sharing platform within the group a la GM,

    911, rear engine platform, nothing in VAG can share, unless Piech wants to base to next Beetle off it.

    Boxter/Cayman, mid-engine, nothing in VAG can share, unless Piech wants to build the R8 on it or base the Boxter on R8. Or base the next Boxter/Cayman off the TT platform

    Cayenne, yes and it has a future in VAG

    Panamera, he might kill it all together, it competes directly with his A8/Bentley/Phaeton, or scrape it to base it off the A8 platofrm.

    After the dust settles, all Porsche might have left would be Cayenne and possibly the 911, and maybe so future cheap products base off Golf or A4 to gain 'volume'

     

     


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Fascinating analysis RC. Piech ostensibly opposes WW's takeover bid while knowing all along the plans. WW becomes the expendable man in case of failure while  giving Piech plausible deniability.  In either case Piech maintains power regardless of the end result while WW assumes the risk as the visible architect. WW either wins big or goes home a rich loser. Machiavellian to the core.


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    Carpe Diem

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Certainly, Pieech knew of Porsche's plans to take over VW-so did we and the rest of the world. Smiley

    But no doubt, Pieech wanted all along to run the show. 

    And yes, Porsche was in a difficult position even five years ago to stay a fully independent manufacturer.  Nobody is denying the long-term need for Porsche to be somehow integrated with a larger manufacturer to support profitability.  BUT taking the approach WW and HH did-instead of trying to become part of VW where it most naturally belonged (with the Pieech and Porsche families interconnected) proactively-to me makes Porsche's reason for being (the 911) diluted.

    I agree with RC, the Cayman has no purpose in a VW-owned Porsche, but I also have qualms about the Panamera-as currently configured.  Porsche should set up a model lineup as follows:

    1.  911 in all its variants-this is really the ONLY reason for Porsche to exist, especially in VW-with all motorsports focus in the GT classes of course benefiting the 911.

    2.  Boxster-no Cayman.

    3.  Cayenne (for a sporty SUV for VW).

    4.  REVISED Panamera-MKII wouldn't need WW's required rear seat headroom-also, make it smaller, more like a sporty sedan with a bench back seat for three, and I could see a wide model range from an entry-level econobox version up to a super-sedan.  But make it smaller, darn it, give it sedan lines, make it seat five, and it could compete with the 911 and Cayenne for production numbers.

    5.  CGT replacement-Pieech would support this heartily.

    That's all folks. Smiley


    --

    1997 993 TT Proto 3.8L 700HP

    2005 996 TSCab EVO GT700

    2006 Noble M400 "M600" 573RWHP

    2007 Audi RS4 MTM exhaust/clutch/LWFW


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Turbo Al:

    1.  911 in all its variants-this is really the ONLY reason for Porsche to exist, especially in VW-with all motorsports focus in the GT classes of course benefiting the 911.

    2.  Boxster-no Cayman.

    That's all folks. Smiley

    I have a better idea; why not have a rear-mid engined 911? Keep the practicality of having token rear seats and/or storage, and send Porsche's crown jewel to the pole position in regard to handling. Then there will be no need for prejudice in justifying why a 911 is the best in the family stable.


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    2008 Boxster S


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Turbo Al:

     

    2.  Boxster-no Cayman.

    Why no Cayman? With very little marginal cost Porsche have introduced another line, that is helping sales. According to worldwide sales figures the Cayman is not behind Boxster.

    There are people who want an affordable mid-engined sports car but don't like convertible tops. Why not cater for them?

    Also the FL Cayman S is an attractive car and a great drive.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    awai08:

    I have a better idea; why not have a rear-mid engined 911? Keep the practicality of having token rear seats and/or storage, and send Porsche's crown jewel to the pole position in regard to handling. Then there will be no need for prejudice in justifying why a 911 is the best in the family stable.

     

     

    That may very well happen in the upcoming 991 but... it will no longer be a 911. It will be a 911 look-alike. If that happens the 911 is dead and the current model will be the last 911 for many Porsche fans.

    The 911 appeal is not defined by ultimate performance, rather it's its persoanlity as a an-all-in-the-rear vehicle with unique driving dynamics. PAG should develop the Cayman as a mid-engine racer and dominate racing. Although... the RSR continues to do well this year...

     


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    _________________________________________________________ 

    A. Dias --- 997.2S (ordered). Previous cars: Corvette C6,  996 C4.


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    FWIW, I have been involved in a few corporate take overs and"mergers". If anyone believes for one second operations will not change at Porsche you must be smoking something. Every dominant company immediately begins to absorb the  subservient company.

    Personnel changes are made in every department to reflect the new owner operation philosophy. There will be reductions in employees and an integration of technologies. Often these changes are subtle but in some cases more dramatic. Usually if done right, the operations can appear seamless. Rarely does any takeover company leave the other company independent.

    My view is Porsche had no choice but to become part of something bigger given the mileage and emissions requirements they are faces in the ROW particularly in the US. My question is how will they address the enormous debt Porsche is saddled with? I also believe this takeover will not impact Porsche sales. Product lines at least for the foreseeable future have been planned and budgeted. it may be too expensive to start or change model plans at this time.

     


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    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    i already have a hard time telling the difference between VW, Audi and Seat products (apart from cosmetic and marketing).

    im really worried that something like that might happen to Porsche....


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    I think Porsche shoppers may have a better future ahead.Smiley

    WW at Porsche had morphed a car company into a hedge fund that also built cars. Regardless of the successful but awkward looking Cayenne, hyped Cayman or the soon to launch Aunt Panamera, a completely new sports car is needed.

    There is no doubt that Piech is probably more passionate about cars, speed and motorsports than any other man in the industry.

    I think with Piechs influence, Porsche may get the ability to develop something sensational instead of just cranking out slight improved 911's for  each model year.

    Good luck to Porsche! Smiley

     

     

     

     

     

     


    --
    -------------------------------------------------- Tuna kwenda, Tuna shinda!


    Re: CEO Dr. Wiedeking and CFO Härter have left Porsche

    Where in the hell have you been?Smiley Missed your input. You're our American version of Fritz.Smiley


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