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    OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    open road. See this link
    http://www.dhnet.be/index.phtml?content=http://www.dhnet.be/dhinfos/article.phtml?id=105536
    I will try to translate it since probably most people on this board don't understand French. A terrible accident involving a Porsche happened yesterday on the highway near Liege, in Belgium. The driver lost the control of the car at an estimated speed of 250 km/h. The car went throught the middle of the highway, hit a big lighting pylon and drag it on the other side of the highway on more than 100 meters. The impact was terrible, the car being splitted in two. The two people in the car passed away. According witnesses the accidented Porsche, a silver 996 GT2, was in fact involved in high speed driving or may be street racing with another Porsche, a GT3 RS. The driver of the GT3 RS, which appear later on to be also the owner of the GT2, did not stop after the accident. He was however arrested by the police at Spa-Francorchamps where he was supposed to race at the 1OOOkms of Spa race of this week end! He is actually in jail, an exceptional decision in Belgium for a driver who did not kill other pepole under the influence of alcohol.
    This very sad story (which could have been worse if the car would have hitten on the other side of the highway others cars transporting families), should remind us the danger of high speed on open road, even with highly skilled drivers. I suppose that most readers of this board, including myself, are somewhat addicted to speed but this kind of accident make you really think twice...

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    The GT3RS driver didn't stop??? he deserves jailtime IMO.

    Sad story indeed, could happen to any of us any day but all you can do about it is to use a car that is fit for those speeds, always have the car in perfect shape (tires, suspensions, etc), and always use comon sense for when and how. The rest is a risk I'm willing to take compared to turning my 911 into a mere people carrier and giving up the experience it was made to offer as one of the best sportcars in the world.
    Just my choice though.

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    For reasons I don't want to go into I had a recent visit to our local Medical Examiner's office where several autopsies were in progress. One of the examinations was of of a recent car accident victim. Without going into any details it was clear how fragile the human body is, and how much energy is dissipated in "high speed" accidents (this one was 75mph).

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    He lost control at 250 kph? Interesting. But do they say why? I NEVER lost control of my car in the past 20 years of driving and my only accident happened at age 18 when I was watching a nice girl on the boardwalk while I should have paid more attention to the car in front of me which stopped at a red light.
    250 kph is no speed for me, this is kiddie speed, as shocking this might sound for you. I do 250 kph in the Cayenne all the time. Not to talk about the 997 Carrera S.
    The only thing I can't count in is technical issues (but I try to keep this risk at a minimum level) and crazy people who want to kill themselves.
    There is a Autobahn near my town where I did 300-305 kph in a certain curve. Now they put up a 120 kph speed limit because a lot of accidents happened there, the marks on the asphalt tell their stories. Recently, I did more than 290 kph in that curve in the 997 Carrera S, two days later the speed limit was in effect.

    Another point: Belgium has a speed limit. This means that other drivers don't expect that kind of speed. One reason why I pay a lot of attention to traffic when I travel outside Germany. More than one car on the highway? I slow down, you never know.

    You have to drive with me a short while on the Autobahn to understand my driving style. I'm not driving aggressive, I'm 100% concentrated on traffic ahead of me and I NEVER had a situation where I would say to myself "oh boy, this was pretty close". Believe it or not.

    I'm sorry for the guys who died. Nobody deserves to die this way. But it happens. From my experience 90% (without exeggeration!) of the GT2/GT3/GT3RS drivers can't drive or are maniacs (even worse because they have experience or better said LUCK and they think they can drive). Most of them are pretty emotional people, they don't leave a safety margin and if they do, they forget about it as soon as they feel provoked.

    I'm not perfect. But I know that a little mistake, ONLY ONE, can kill me. And I always have that on my mind. So I try to be perfect when I drive at high speeds. Up til now, it worked pretty good because I have a priority...staying alive while enjoying my ride. When I start listening to music or to talk to my wife, I slow down. For a good reason. At 250 kph, a fraction of a second is enough to kill you or at least to make you loose control of the car.
    A FRACTION OF A SECOND, this means in a blink of an eye.
    I wear sun glasses most of the time to avoid sun glare. I turn off the music when I drive very fast. I'm concentrated on one single thing: the traffic ahead of me and of course the street conditions. Steering, shifting, using the clutch, using the turn signal, etc., this works without thinking about it, it works automatically, it is part of my body, not my thinking. Sounds weird? Can't help it.
    I know some people, especially Germans, will laugh now and say: "C'mon, I even answer my phone at 250 kph". I have a friend who answered his phone at 270 kph and he was driving only one handed with the phone in the other hand. I would never do that because, as I said before: a fraction of a second, a blink of an eye... I know many people don't think about it and as long as you don't get in a dangerous situation, it is easy to laugh about my "personal rules". But they always worked for me and I'm still alive. No accidents, no points, never lost my driver license and I can still enjoy high speed driving.
    High speed driving needs discipline. Self discipline.

    Let me use the 997 Carrera S as an example: the chassis is very good, high speed driving through curves is pretty impressive, very stable. BUT...there is the steering. If somebody has a hand tremor, I wouldn't recommend driving the 997 Carrera S through high speed curves. One cm too much and you're gone and I'm not kidding. The chassis also gets a bit nervous if the street is bumpy and I really recommend driving through a bumpy high speed curve at 250 kph to understand what I mean.
    For me, driving is not only fun, it is an art. And don't laugh now: when I'm driving, I'm using the turn signal, I'm driving a pretty "clean" curve on public streets without "cutting" the other lane and I try to drive smoothly without hard acceleration and hard stopping all the time. My wife always wonders how smoothly the ride is and trust me, I'm always a bit faster than the others.
    She's also surprised that I rarely use the brake. Because I watch the cars ahead of me and adapt the speed. Usually this is enough to keep up with them without having to brake.
    Watch sports car drivers around you and you'll be surprised how many don't use the turn signal when they change lanes or how they move slightly to the other lane while driving through a curve. What does this have to do with high speed driving? Simple: high speed driving is about precision. You can't call yourself a good driver if you don't follow some simple driving rules. If you're able to follow the simpliest rules, you can move on to a higher level. Unfortunately people always want to move to the pro driver level. Precision is one of the key rules. There are tracks where a little bit too much steering in or a little bit too much braking and you're gone. Precision starts on public streets, you can't drive like a jerk on public streets and be a precision instrument on the track.

    When I'm driving, I also analyze my driving. Why? Just as some kind of self control. It helps, I learn. And after 21 years of driving, I'm still learning. On public streets, I'm only afraid of technical issues or crazy drivers. On the track, I'm afraid of my lack of recent experience because I don't have much time anymore. So I'm not worried doing 250 kph on the Autobahn but I would be definetely worried to do 250 kph on the track.

    High speed driving

    I agree 100% with everything that Christian said. How he describes it is exactly how I feel when I'm driving. I too think that many drivers who are going fast don't understand and aren't paying enough attention. And Christian is absolutely correct about the need for precision and for constant self-analysis. I could have written that myself (though obviously not as well!)

    However, let's all be honest here. No matter how "in control" you are, there is always going to be a degree of uncontrollability in driving. This is true at slow speeds and this is true at high speeds. There is risk. That risk can be minimised through skill and judgment but it cannot be eliminated. Crashes happen. And if you hit a solid object in any car at high speeds this is going to be the likely outcome.

    My personal philosophy is that there is a compromise between taking great risks and dying early and taking no risks and not living life. Which life is the wasted life? The one that dies early while pursuing life or the one that lives to a full age but is so scared that he or she never manages to really live? The trick, I think, is to get as much out of life as possible without shortening that life. That is my goal at least.

    Stephen

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    The GT3RS driver didn't stop??? he deserves jailtime IMO.

    Sad story indeed, could happen to any of us any day but all you can do about it is to use a car that is fit for those speeds, always have the car in perfect shape (tires, suspensions, etc), and always use comon sense for when and how. The rest is a risk I'm willing to take compared to turning my 911 into a mere people carrier and giving up the experience it was made to offer as one of the best sportcars in the world.
    Just my choice though.



    And mine Carlos.

    This is actually only the second 996 body Porsche that I've ever seen shredded like this. The first was under very similar circumstances.

    Not sure that there was a legal duty for the other driver to stop. That would depend on whether or not he was involved in the accident.

    Stephen

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Well, how reasonable it may all sound, if you drive 250 km/h on a public road where there is a speed limit of 120 km/h (or is it 130, well, doesn't matter) you are a jerk, because you can expect there to be cars that drive 120.
    People should think some more.
    -Joost-

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Sad story indeed. What puzzles me is how people consider it`s fun to drive at 250kph. If only they knew the risks they are taking for themselves as well as for third parties they `d knew better. Hey, I`m talking about such speed developed by a sad road-legal car (even if it were a CGT) in a crowded public road where almost everything is random: others behaviour, dust, bumps, oil, animals... Carlos Sainz once said if you were able to recover from an oversteer at 160kph it was luck, no skills at such speed. Crashes are caused by those random uncontrollable nasty things that happen while driving. If you go fast enough you simply won`t recover from the accident.

    I`m no saint, but I do high speed driving while at tracks where conditions are ideal with track-only formulas that handle and perform 300% better than any road legal car.

    Lottery,anyone?

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    My idea's exactly, JM
    -Joost-

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    RC,
    Thanks for lenghtly description of your driving style. I am adopting a very similar one and like you I have never been involved in a single accident... but my task is much more easy since my M3 is limited at 250 .
    What makes really a big noise here is not so much that Porsche cars (and two of the most emblematical 996)were involved in the accident but rather than these cars were driven by (semi-)professional race drivers. For the media it is obvious that those people should rather show the good example on open road by respecting the limitations...

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    The other day I saw a guy drive some little [censored] car like he was Schumi, endangering several other people by his manovers. In my view the larg majority of people is challenged by driving beyond a straight line not just the guys who drive GT3s. Stop blaming it on speed.
    Unfortunatley the hurddle to get a licence is being lowered rather than raised. Most people have lost any sense of discipline. Blaiming accidence like these on speed is in my mind like blaming McDonalds for all the fat people - convienent but not the root of the problem

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Belgium has always been a land of people rather than laws. If you are connected, you can do as you wish. Laws are really nothing more than a starting point in negotiations.

    Stephen

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Still. I don't blame it on speed, as you say, that is like blaming mc donalds for fat people. But as with the fat people, I have no mercy, cause they decided themselves to eat that food in unhealthy quantities. I have no mercy for the people dying in this crash. If possible, these people should be sewed posthume. They have willingly put other people in danger, and that is like "doodslag" (what is it called in english? manslaughter? attempt homicide? dunno)
    Jeez, why don't people think before they do? I mean, if I were in an RS, I would love to drive 250 km/h! Really, but I would not be as stupid to do it on the open road... I would not do it at all, because I never drove that speed... follow some courses, go to track days etc... but I know my own boundaries, and I think I mostly know when to pass those boundaries and why.
    (this opinion is solely based on the article I read, so no offense intended if wrong)
    -Joost-

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    I have no mercy for the people dying in this crash. -Joost-


    come on joost...even tough i blame a lot the attitude of those late guys , everyone could have a crazy moment ,and believe me,not any of them tought it will end up like this.lets just respect the deads and their families.

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    of course, but it is their own "fault" they died, and I am very glad they only killed themselves, and no-one else.
    -Joost-

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    of course, but it is their own "fault" they died, and I am very glad they only killed themselves, and no-one else.
    -Joost-



    I think you're being a bit rude. Show some respect for other peoples lives, even if they had made a big mistake. Don't tell me you always do it right, we're not perfect.

    J.Seven

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    We`re not talking here about some poor guys that suffered from a miscalculation. Instead we're talking about a couple of guys that could have get you killed in the process of their joyful ride.

    Assuming risks for oneself is great if implies no risks for somebody else, let's say you and me, thanks.

    JM

    Re: OT: RC and others...Take care with high speed driving on

    J. Seven, I might indeed be a bit rude, but that is because I have had some very nasty experiences with crashes like that. But I understand that I might offend people with my point of view, so I won't comment furthermore on this topic, ok? Just know; no offense intended.
    -Joost-

     
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