Crown

Board: Porsche - Cayman Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Today's issue of the German carmag Sport Auto features the long awaited "Supertest" for the Cayman S.

    They describe the car as a true "Super sportscar" evoking the highest level of fascination
    But they also state "in terms of driving dynamics Cayman S is not really far ahead of it's ragtop sibling, opposed to what PAG's marketing department claims".
    Sport Auto says they are not surprised with this observation, as the technical platforms of the Coupé/Roadster are more or less identical. Still they describe the Cayman S as a car with it's own character in terms of subjective drive feel, which distinguish it from the Boxster.

    Here are the most important figures from the Supertest:

    Cayman S / Boxster S (Boxster S)

    NBR: 8:25 / 8:23
    HHR: 1:15.9 / 1:16.2 (1:15.6)
    0-100: 5.7 / 5.6 (5.5)
    0-200: 19.8 / 20.7 (19.9)

    Boxster S figures refer to 987 S (3.2) "old engine".
    Boxster S figures in brackets refer to another Sport Auto test (conducted before the "Supertest").

    If one considers that claimed Walter Röhrl times at NBR have been 7 sec. faster in the Cayman S vs. Boxster S (8:11 vs. 8:18) it's somewhat astonishing, that the Cayman S reached a NBR time 2 sec. short of the less powered Boxster S, but of course NBR is not a scientific laboratory (variances in air temp/track temp/humidity and general track conditions easily can evoke differences of +/- 5 sec. or even more).

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    That is a good point. Did the describe the conditions at the 'Ring? Seems like the time is not as quick as many would have liked.

    I am also currious to know what options the car had. ie PASM, PCCB, 19" wheels, Sport Chrono?

    Thanks!

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Thanks for the figures

    Could you also post the figures for the 110Metre evasive, 36 metre slalom and 0-200km/h-0 ?

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    I've got scans! Orignal thanks to Ajzhan of supercars.net










    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    I testdrove a 996 C2 yesterday and really prefer the feel in my 987 Boxster. A Carrera 4 is very different but the weight distribution in the C2 is very noticeable. I may go Cayman - love the semi-practical hatch too!

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Pagani Fanatic, thank you for posting, very much appreciated! Any chance you can lay your hands on the Boxster article as well???

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Quote:
    Michael Russell said:
    Pagani Fanatic, thank you for posting, very much appreciated! Any chance you can lay your hands on the Boxster article as well???

    Michael



    Hey Michael, I sadly do not have the full test, but i do have the Nurburgring and Hockenheim section.

    If i find the whole test i'll post it.




    -Regards, Bruce

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Bruce -

    That is Awesome! It is really all I wanted, as I dont read German. Though the stats page would be handy if you come across it. Thank you.

    I find it VERY interesting that the Cayman had PCCB brakes, and I see quickly looking at the picture above the Boxster had the standard brakes, smaller motor, and still went faster....man that is odd. I wonder if the boxster also had PASM and Sport Chrono. I also wonder if durring the NBR test they ran the Cayman is PASM hard or soft. Do they mention it in the article?

    Thanks again, much appreciated!

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Quote:
    Michael Russell said:

    I wonder if the boxster also had PASM and Sport Chrono. I also wonder if durring the NBR test they ran the Cayman is PASM hard or soft. Do they mention it in the article?



    I've been looking around and i wasn't able to find every detail but a good number. It appears the Boxster which was run in the supertest was using:

    - Michelin Pilot Sport 2 235/35 Front / 265/35 ZR 19 Rear
    - PASM
    - Sports Chrono Pkg
    - PCM

    I will continue my search for the full test data


    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Bruce --

    That is good info, thanks! Keep up the good work.

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Guys, I don't want to rain on your parade but the numbers from the test are good but not excellent.
    In Germany, the Cayman isn't really a success, Porsche dealers are stuck with many Cayman in their showrooms and they don't seem to be able to sell many. In Germany, the Cayman doesn't seem to be a success, it may be different in other countries but over here, the Cayman is a sitting duck, in both meanings. I won't even start with resale value, you can get 10% and more on a new car, so you can imagine how resale value is.

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    RC --

    You are not raining on anyones parade. In fact, I suspect you have not read the entire thread, as I think you will find that it has been about trying to figure out why the cayman is slower than the "old" boxster.

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    "the Cayman doesn't seem to be a success, it may be different in other countries but over here, the Cayman is a sitting duck, in both meanings. "

    Sitting duck - two meanings - not selling and its slow? Is that what you mean RC?

    Am I alone here or are these results a little out of wack with some other track lap times?
    For example: Top Gear (The Stig)
    Cayman S 1.26.2
    GT3 1.27.2
    997 CS 1.28.9

    And what about Walter Röhrl times at NBR being 7 sec. faster in the Cayman S vs. Boxster S (8:11 vs. 8:18)

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Come on now, I am as big a fan of the cayman as the next guy, in fact I just ordered one. But the top gear test of the GT3 was in the (VERY!) wet. Lets keep it in perspective.

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    I'm not suggesting the Cayman is quicker round a track than a GT3, my point is track times vary with the weather, the driver etc. If you go to the official BBC Top Gear site and check lap times for Stig it doesn't inform you that the GT3 was in the wet. So I'm just curious to know why the Cayman S on another day is way quicker than the Boxster S, and slower than the "old" Boxster on this day. What was happening at the track?

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Quote:
    Michael Russell said:
    ...that it has been about trying to figure out why the cayman is slower than the "old" boxster.

    Michael



    IMO that's the interesting question indeed.

    Some more data comparison Cayman S / Boxster S (Supertest data)

    Cayman S / Boxster S

    max. G-force (G): 1.2 / 1.3
    18m slalom (km/h): 69.2 / 71.1
    36m slalom (km/h): 134 / 136
    110m evasion (km/h): 145 / 151
    wet handling parcours (min): 1:29.1 / 130.9
    testcar's weight (kg): 1412 / 1425

    Some explanations why the Cayman S figures are somewhat below expected results:
    The article mentions, that test circumstances have been a bit worse compared to the Boxster S Supertest.
    Unfortunately Sport Auto does publish air/track temp for the HHR-lap only, not for the other tasks (especially NBR).
    HHR airtemp was 28* C for Cayman S vs. 22*C for Boxster S.
    One may speculate that the NBR-lap and other tests took place a couple of months ago in quite hot summer weather: some data in the Supertest (like 0-100/0-200 etc.) are exactly the same as those data published in Sport Auto's issue 9/06 (Cayman S / BMW Z4M Coupé comaparo). This test has been done in 34*C airtemp/40*C tracktemp conditions (obviously not ideal conditions).
    Furthermore Sport Auto made some remarks about the tires (Michelin PS2): according to the article meanwhile (since the Boxster S test) Michelin has changed the tires' compound in order to improve wet handling performance (hence sacrifying a bit of dry handling performance).
    That makes sense if you compare the Cayman S' edge over the Boxster S in the wet handling parcours, whereas Boxster S showed better results in all the other handling tests (G-force, slalom etc.).

    Sport Auto's judgement: the somewhat worse test conditions and the "updatet" Michelins may explain the worse than expected results to a certain extent, but not in total (claimed WR NBR-times 7 sec better than Boxster S, Sport Auto times 2 sec. worse than Boxster S - relative gap: 9 sec.)

    I guess that's why Sport Auto concluded that PAG's marketing promises (Cayman S performance inbetween Boxster S and Carrera) are just that (namely a promise), whereas in reality Cayman S performance basically is on par with Boxster S performance (which of course doesn't make the Cayman S a bad car).

    Two other interesting observations according to the article:
    Boxster S shows better downforce (less ascending force) on the front axle at highspeed, cabin noise at highspeed is the same compared to the Boxster S (the first IMO quite astonishing, the latter not a big surprise - it's the same for Carrera Coupé vs. Carrera cab).

    And to add one opinion to the seemingly endless discussions about wether the car needs a LSD: Sport Auto says it definitely needs a LSD (from my own Boxster S experience I second this opinion).

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Porsche-Jeck --

    Thank you for the insightful post, that is the kind of stuff I was hoping to see. As I dont read German I was reduced to just looking at the pretty pictures.

    I also noticed that the Cayman basicaly lost all its time in the Second and last sector of the track, which is realy odd, because the second sector is very much a handling section, and the last section is very much a power section. While it does reach an ever so slightly higher top speed, it still looses 1.4 seconds to the slightly lower powered Boxster.

    Oh well all in good fun I guess. I ordered the coupe because I like coupes, not because I was under any illusions as to it being a clearly supperior car. They are both excelent machines.

    Michael

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Michael
    Quote:


    IMO that's the interesting question indeed.

    Some more data comparison Cayman S / Boxster S (Supertest data)

    Cayman S / Boxster S

    max. G-force (G): 1.2 / 1.3
    18m slalom (km/h): 69.2 / 71.1
    36m slalom (km/h): 134 / 136
    110m evasion (km/h): 145 / 151
    wet handling parcours (min): 1:29.1 / 130.9
    testcar's weight (kg): 1412 / 1425





    You really can't base any comparison off of single runs -it's meaningless. There needs to be around ten runs or so with the standard deviation calculated , in order to see if there is any statistical difference between the two cars. The same driver may have times differing by 5-6 seconds in consecutive runs.

    These 2 second differences from single runs really don't show any difference at all.

    Re: Cayman S in Sport Auto's Supertest

    Quote:
    mlin said:
    "the Cayman doesn't seem to be a success, it may be different in other countries but over here, the Cayman is a sitting duck, in both meanings. "

    Sitting duck - two meanings - not selling and its slow? Is that what you mean RC?

    Am I alone here or are these results a little out of wack with some other track lap times?
    For example: Top Gear (The Stig)
    Cayman S 1.26.2
    GT3 1.27.2
    997 CS 1.28.9

    And what about Walter Röhrl times at NBR being 7 sec. faster in the Cayman S vs. Boxster S (8:11 vs. 8:18)



    A friendly tip:
    I suggest you dont put too much emphasis in any TopGear test, as their track test are as unscientific as they are entertaining.
    The track conditions are SO different from test to test, that this alone makes any comparison impossible.
    Next, "The Stig" is more than one driver and hence the results may vary for that reason alone.

    I'd look at von Saurma, CAR magazine or Roerhl tests as benchmarks.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 11/15/18 10:20 AM
    TB993tt
    402632 5188
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 11/17/18 12:03 AM
    Pilot
    320249 1966
    Porsche Sticky 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) 11/17/18 8:30 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    268540 2960
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 11/7/18 2:43 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    211143 1077
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 11/15/18 6:23 PM
    BONES
    190587 2674
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/17/18 2:57 PM
    ZahirD
    121512 2404
    AMG Sticky Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 11/15/18 12:15 PM
    RCA
    32061 316
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 9/25/18 6:14 PM
    throt
    13981 121
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 6/18/18 8:51 PM
    Monkey
    13279 31
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS 1/9/18 1:43 PM
    Kimi
    522680 5816
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 4/3/18 9:15 AM
    KresoF1
    483214 4254
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 9/13/18 10:12 AM
    RCA
    278568 2589
    Porsche Cayman GT4 11/16/18 11:30 AM
    RCA
    263566 2611
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S 1/23/18 12:27 AM
    RCA
    191439 1074
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 11/17/18 4:47 AM
    koko
    189324 1738
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 10/29/18 5:13 PM
    reginos
    178589 3212
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    142680 757
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 11/1/18 6:13 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    141753 2234
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 1/6/18 10:41 PM
    Wonderbar
    128191 1284
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    111584 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    106454 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 11/17/18 4:38 PM
    reginos
    84204 1126
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 10/13/18 9:50 PM
    RCA
    66571 672
    Porsche UPDATES: 2018 Porsche Cayenne 2/6/18 2:13 PM
    RCA
    57162 423
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    46618 477
    Others Tesla Roadster 11/14/18 12:48 PM
    lukestern
    43076 1395
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    42802 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 1/26/18 7:19 AM
    GoHardGT3RS
    41238 597
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/16/18 9:46 PM
    Topspeed
    39146 471
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 11/14/18 11:25 AM
    RCA
    39015 637
    284 items found, displaying 1 to 30.