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    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Carlos from Spain:

    fritz:

    Just because dad is a track-freak, it doesn't mean that the kids who have to sit in the back would be able to enjoy the firm ride.

    fritz

     

    Hey! you know the line "as long as you live under my roof you have to follow my rules..." all I have to do is add "... and sit in the back of the GT3 AND LIKE IT!" SmileySmiley but if its any indication my 2.5 yr old daughter preffers to ride in the back of "daddy's car" than "mom's" when asked  Smiley  rally.gif

     

    Well Carlos, you are one person I would not expect to suffer from "buyer's remorse" if you suddenly found yourself driving a GT3. Smiley

    By the way, just to keep you from getting into trouble at home, please note that by my reckoning your daughter must now be more than 2.75 years old, not just 2.5 years. Smiley
    You really do need to keep track of these things!  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    fritz:
    Grant:
    SoCal Alan:

    Wouldn't it have been easier to ship the GT3 with the rear seats, and have an option to not have them?  The GT3 would be even more attractive, IMHO, to more buyers.

    Porsche would much prefer that prospective buyers who need a back seat to buy a C4S or C2S anyways.  The margin on those cars is much higher than on the GT3.  They don't want it to be too attractive :)
     

     

    I think it is more a question of preferring not to have prospective buyers buying the wrong car "by mistake". A car tuned to be really competent on a track, as the GT3 is, cannot  -  by definition  - be ideally suited as family transport. Track suspension settings just cannot be ideal for passenger comfort. Just because dad is a track-freak, it doesn't mean that the kids who have to sit in the back would be able to enjoy the firm ride.

    Making a car like the GT3 "even more attractive" to the wrong buyer profile would just lead to dissatisfied buyers. We have read some posts here on rennteam in the past from people who sold their GT3s because they could not live with the car's track suspension on the poor road surfaces they had to drive on every day. We'd read more posts like that if buyers were to be misled into thinking that the car is well-suited for the whole family's long week-end trip to grandma's place.


    --

    fritz


     

    The problem, at least here in the U.S., is that you can't even test drive a GT3.  They're all spoken for.  So the problem with making a "mistake" is very realistic.  They should probably set aside one GT3 at every dealership for test-drive purposes only.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    SoCal Alan:
    The problem, at least here in the U.S., is that you can't even test drive a GT3.  They're all spoken for.  So the problem with making a "mistake" is very realistic.  They should probably set aside one GT3 at every dealership for test-drive purposes only.

    I wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't realistic. Smiley

    Your suggestion probably could not work in practice, because I would guess that the number of Porsche dealers in the USA approaches or exceeds the number of GT3s of each generation imported into the US.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    fritz:
    Carlos from Spain:

    fritz:

    Just because dad is a track-freak, it doesn't mean that the kids who have to sit in the back would be able to enjoy the firm ride.

    fritz

     

    Hey! you know the line "as long as you live under my roof you have to follow my rules..." all I have to do is add "... and sit in the back of the GT3 AND LIKE IT!" SmileySmiley but if its any indication my 2.5 yr old daughter preffers to ride in the back of "daddy's car" than "mom's" when asked  Smiley  rally.gif

     

    Well Carlos, you are one person I would not expect to suffer from "buyer's remorse" if you suddenly found yourself driving a GT3. Smiley

    By the way, just to keep you from getting into trouble at home, please note that by my reckoning your daughter must now be more than 2.75 years old, not just 2.5 years. Smiley
    You really do need to keep track of these things!  Smiley

     

    Good memory!Smiley Smiley


    --

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Amazing job from DR as usual. Thanks Steve for sharing 


    --

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    fritz:
    SoCal Alan:
    The problem, at least here in the U.S., is that you can't even test drive a GT3.  They're all spoken for.  So the problem with making a "mistake" is very realistic.  They should probably set aside one GT3 at every dealership for test-drive purposes only.

    I wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't realistic. Smiley

    Your suggestion probably could not work in practice, because I would guess that the number of Porsche dealers in the USA approaches or exceeds the number of GT3s of each generation imported into the US.  Smiley


     

    Let's just do this for Southern California Dealers, then. Smiley

    LA/OC/SD counties. Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    fritz:

    Nothing new here. The shoulder straps of a six-point harness attach to a crossbar of the roll-cage. So a six-point harness can only be installed into a car with a roll-cage.

    I have the harness installed without the rollcage and I'm not the only one - shoulder straps are fixed where the rear seat safety belts are fixed in the Carrera. The lightweight  single metal used in the rear of the GT3 MKII may be to fragile to do the same Smiley
     


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Porsche-Jeck:
    I have the harness installed without the rollcage and I'm not the only one - shoulder straps are fixed where the rear seat safety belts are fixed in the Carrera. The lightweight  single metal used in the rear of the GT3 MKII may be to fragile to do the same Smiley
     

    Should be able to mount a harness bar then (much easier and cheaper than cage or rollbar).
     


    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Porsche-Jeck:
    fritz:

    Nothing new here. The shoulder straps of a six-point harness attach to a crossbar of the roll-cage. So a six-point harness can only be installed into a car with a roll-cage.

    I have the harness installed without the rollcage and I'm not the only one - shoulder straps are fixed where the rear seat safety belts are fixed in the Carrera. The lightweight  single metal used in the rear of the GT3 MKII may be to fragile to do the same Smiley
     

    Interesting. So this is not the OEM setup, and also cannot be a "FIA-approved" setup? 

    I won't be so indiscrete as to ask if it is TÜV-approved. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    @ Grant: yes, good advise Smiley

    @ fritz: don't need FIA approval while posing on the Kö Smiley

    The Schroth-harness comes with ABE (Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis). Of course it's important that the installation is done properly (in my case it was done by a motor sports experienced Porsche Zentrum - they should know how to do it correctly Smiley )


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Porsche-Jeck:

    @ fritz: don't need FIA approval while posing on the Kö Smiley

    The Schroth-harness comes with ABE (Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis). Of course it's important that the installation is done properly (in my case it was done by a motor sports experienced Porsche Zentrum - they should know how to do it correctly Smiley )

    I could lend you a pair of Porsche Design shades for the Kö, if you are interested. Smiley

    OK, the 6-point Schroth harness with ABE and press-button release is not the OEM GT3 (turn-buckle) belt. As you said, the PZ will know how to fit it correctly. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Each time I look a bit more closely at this car I think I am not far to make it my daily driver. It is so impressive and would suit my driving perfectly Smiley

    The ONLY problem left  : no back seats .


    --
     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

     Do as i have done, Run a cheap Ford for the times you need back seats !!!


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    SteveD:

    We've just published Chris' video review which will provide you with a better idea for how it sounds.  Also when you watch the video you can hear about the lap time that Porsche have recorded around the 'ring. 

     

     

    Excellent, especially on top of the written article! Thanks a lot!

    There´s just one problem, I´ve got to earn more money... Smiley


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Superb write-up

    Drivers Republic has really raised the bar amongst English language media for serious motoring journalism for car enthuasiasts


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    easy_rider911:

    Superb write-up

    Drivers Republic has really raised the bar amongst English language media for serious motoring journalism for car enthuasiasts

    +1Smiley

    Pity they don't issue a magazine as well. I like to read in all sorts of places that a laptop is not convenient.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    I experienced a technical problem last night - on DR, one can download the article to read offline - but it isn't working on my Mac...


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Finally i saw the video...thanks!!great comments and great sound!!can't wai to see the RS!


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Fabulous sound......Smiley


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    The embed for the lazy


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    I think Chris Harris, is definately my favourite automotive journalist, he gives a superb explanation and focus only where it really matters !!!!. And definately knows how to drive and transmit the best out of it !

     

    Oh, and I love the mk2, I love it even more than a carrera gt !!! (as the carrera gt is totally out of budget)

    I loooooove it !


    --

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    The GT3 really is the real porsche nowadays. It's just so different than all those 997s, 4s and turbos out there.

    When I first drove one (I'll always remember it as one of the best moment in my entire life) , right after a 997 turbo, I was so shocked by the experience that I know, for sure, that it's the best 911 ever.

    There's such a difference between a everyday 997 and a GT3... people who haven't had the chance to drive one have no idea...

    I'm so eager to get my hands on one of those 997 GT3 mkII... god help me...

     

    Thanks for the post! Smiley

     

     


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Is there no way to technically fit in seats at the back? or at least belts (with a separate kids car seat)?

     

    Agree it might sound silly for purists but who cares I love the raw power and handling of a GT3 versus a Carrera S and as i will be using it for daily commute I would like to be able to drop my kids at school in the morning.


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Has anyone else been in one of the new 997.2 GT3s or just me?  These threads seem dead here on Rennteam.


    --
    harrY 2006 Boxster S, Atlas Grey, Black/Black, 6spd

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    harryo2b:

    Has anyone else been in one of the new 997.2 GT3s or just me?  These threads seem dead here on Rennteam.


    I've tried the car at Lurcy Levis, which is a tight curvy track, so rear traction was a plus.

    It's a fantastic car but if you own a mk1, I wouldn't bother with the new one, it's a little bit better here and there but not obsviously so.

    Most noticeable change is the low down torque due to increased capacity, which on a track, is not that important.

     

     


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    amazon:

    The GT3 really is the real porsche nowadays. It's just so different than all those 997s, 4s and turbos out there.

    When I first drove one (I'll always remember it as one of the best moment in my entire life) , right after a 997 turbo, I was so shocked by the experience that I know, for sure, that it's the best 911 ever.

    There's such a difference between a everyday 997 and a GT3... people who haven't had the chance to drive one have no idea...

    I must have missed something when I drove the 997.1 GT3 the other day on the Silverstone Porsche handling tracks.  I started in a 997.2 C4S, then went to a 997.2 C2S and then ended in a 997.1 GT3.  All 3 of them felt HUGELY under-powered when I put my foot down coming out of corners, I was frankly bored in the sections where I usually have the most fun.  The GT3 certainly felt the most nimble, being the lightest, but I think for a daily car I would have actually rated the 997.2 C4S as the best all rounder.

    At the end of the day I got back into my Turbo, got to a stretch of dual carriageway and nailed the throttle.  OMG what a difference!  My Turbo's handling too is now on a par with the GT3, it's only the extra weight that cannot be hidden.  So you can indeed turn a Turbo into a GT3 with a few extras fitted but sadly you can't turn a GT3 into a Turbo.

    The 997 GT3 as the best 911 ever?  I suppose it depends on what you are personally  looking for.  I myself will never get bored of shifting down to 2nd gear and nailing it  in my Turbo - the G-force is so absurd it's comical and always puts a smile on my face.  As the 997.2 GT3 is supposed to be as fast as a Turbo I wonder whether it would give me the same seat-of-pants G-force feel?  Most guys interested in a GT3 wouldn't care about such things I suppose, only how fast it can take corners...


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

     So you can indeed turn a Turbo into a GT3 with a few extras fitted but sadly you can't turn a GT3 into a Turbo.


    --

    Yes, you can.  It's called a GT2

    Smiley


    Click for bigger picture!

     


    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    Grant:

     So you can indeed turn a Turbo into a GT3 with a few extras fitted but sadly you can't turn a GT3 into a Turbo.


    --

    Yes, you can.  It's called a GT2

    Sorry to keep going off on a 'GT3 is the best 911 ever' thread tangent...

    I agree, the GT2 would be the logical choice that ticks all the boxes.  Then again, it boils down to personal preference; I am not a big fan of lighter steering especially when accelerating (4wd drive cars have more weight on the front so have heavier steering) and I prefer a road car to not have scaffolding in the back. Plus the wife would never let me buy a car that previous gen's have been nicknamed the 'widowmaker'.

    This is why given the choice between a C2S/C4S/GT3 I would actually choose the C4S.  I seriously think I must have missed something when I drove a GT3 around a handling circuit for 30 mins, as there are lots of people that go all weak at the knees at the very mention of a GT3.  It was not like I was going slow, I was lapping pretty much everyone on the track (even when I was driving the Carreras).  I just don't get the appeal myself, sorry guys.  Yes it feels more 'raw' than the other models but it's still primarily a road car so in that respect it is more compromised.  Maybe if I lived on a track then I would feel differently...


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    I agree, the GT2 would be the logical choice that ticks all the boxes.  Then again, it boils down to personal preference; I am not a big fan of lighter steering especially when accelerating (4wd drive cars have more weight on the front so have heavier steering) and I prefer a road car to not have scaffolding in the back. Plus the wife would never let me buy a car that previous gen's have been nicknamed the 'widowmaker'.

    This is why given the choice between a C2S/C4S/GT3 I would actually choose the C4S.  I seriously think I must have missed something when I drove a GT3 around a handling circuit for 30 mins, as there are lots of people that go all weak at the knees at the very mention of a GT3.  It was not like I was going slow, I was lapping pretty much everyone on the track (even when I was driving the Carreras).  I just don't get the appeal myself, sorry guys.  Yes it feels more 'raw' than the other models but it's still primarily a road car so in that respect it is more compromised.  Maybe if I lived on a track then I would feel differently...


    --Wow, I've never heard of someone with this experience after driving various 911's.  With all due respect, If you really prefer  the 4wd C4S over a GT3 after driving on circuit, then I have to think that the GT3 had a poor alignment set-up or some other out of spec malady or you were not really pushing it enough to note the high speed handling difference. Perhaps your sports car experience is different than most or you really prefer the feel of 4wd?


    Click for bigger picture!


     


    Re: Drivers Republic's first drive of the 997 GT3 Gen.2

    NelsonF:
    --Wow, I've never heard of someone with this experience after driving various 911's.  With all due respect, If you really prefer  the 4wd C4S over a GT3 after driving on circuit, then I have to think that the GT3 had a poor alignment set-up or some other out of spec malady or you were not really pushing it enough to note the high speed handling difference. Perhaps your sports car experience is different than most or you really prefer the feel of 4wd?

    The Silverstone Porsche center is not just a handling track, it's also got water slopes, skid pans etc.  The C4S 911 really especially shines in these other areas way beyond the GT3 principally because of it's 4wd and it's PSM.  Yes the GT3 is a lot lighter so easier to control when the back steps out, but in terms of a road car there is no contest.  The only place the GT3 was faster was on the handling track.  HOWEVER, this is a very tight handling track designed to mimic a twist UK back road with rises and falls - where you can't get anywhere near 100mph at any point.  So yes I am sure the difference would have been more noted on a bigger track where you can carry a lot more speed through corners.

    I am also sure the GT3 (with full race spec) was set up properly as my instructor for the day was the Porsche Cup winner in 2003 and he drives the cars every day and seriously knows his stuff.  Turn in was way sharper than a Carreras.  This is easy to achieve though by taking any 997 down to a suspension tuner who knows their stuff (*see any of my old suspension tuning threads).  The best thing for me was the bucket seats - they make you forget you are actually taking a corner at all!

    With regards to my personal preference of 4wd over 2wd in a 911 I have to say that a lot of it is down to steering weight.  When accelerating I prefer the front nose of the car not to go light.  This is a major 'feature' of the 911 (with it's weight primarily over the rear axel) so anything to balance this out, like having 4wd components weighing down over the front axle gives you much more steering feel when accelerating.  It's just much more driver confidence inspiring.

    Again though, I am a 95% road, 5% track guy - so my main focus is public road driving.  The GT3 is supposed to bridge that road/track gap - with the lack of power though (compared to what I am use to) and on the track I took it on, I sadly found it a serious disappointment to what I was expecting.  The difference between the GT3 and the C4S would only be worthwhile should you be a 50% (or less) road and 50% (or more) track guy.

     

    PS: I asked what 911 the instructor would have should he be given one, and the 2003 Porsche Cup winner said "a Turbo" Smiley  I couldn't believe it, I was expecting him to say a GT3RS or a GT2.  I suppose when he drives on a track though anything less than a RSR is just not good enough, so something tailored specifically to public roads is ideal.


    --


    Click for bigger picture!


     
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