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    block chain

    Can someone explain this to blockheads like me?

    Press Release 26/02/2018
     
    Fast and secure transactions thanks to decentralised protocol

    Porsche introduces blockchain to cars

    Stuttgart. In collaboration with the Berlin-based start-up XAIN, Porsche is currently testing blockchain applications directly in vehicles. This makes the Zuffenhausen-based company the first automobile manufacturer to implement and successfully test blockchain in a car. Transactions based on this technology are both secure and can be processed far more quickly than anything that has come before. The applications tested include locking and unlocking the vehicle via an app, temporary access authorisations and new business models based on encrypted data logging. This could be developed further, for example, to improve autonomous driving functions.

    Blockchain is a decentralised protocol for data transactions between business partners. It also forms the basis of the well-known cryptocurrencies Bitcoin and Ethereum. Every change is recorded in chronologically arranged data blocks, making it transparent and tamper-proof. This could hold enormous potential, according to Oliver Döring, Financial Strategist at Porsche: “We can use blockchain to transfer data more quickly and securely, giving our customers more peace of mind in the future, whether they are charging, parking or need to give a third party, such as a parcel delivery agent, temporary access to the vehicle. We translate the innovative technology into direct benefits for the customer.” 

    The services developed on the foundation of blockchain are fast and very secure. The car becomes part of the blockchain, making a direct offline connection possible – that is, without diversion through a server. Taking 1.6 seconds, the process of opening and closing the car via an app is up to six times faster than before. In addition, efficient cryptographic encryption takes place. This process ensures that all activities are documented in the blockchain in a way that prevents them from being modified, and can be viewed using an app. For example, access authorisations can be distributed digitally and securely and can be monitored by the vehicle owner at any time. Access also works remotely. 

    New business models based on blockchain
    Moreover, the technology makes it possible to assign temporary access authorisations for the vehicle – in a secure and efficient manner. A protected connection to vehicle data and functionalities can be established using blockchain. At the same time, it protects all communication between participants. Third-party providers can be integrated without the need for additional hardware, simply by using “smart contracts”. Smart contracts are automated contracts that trigger transactions upon the occurrence of previously defined conditions. This means that compliance with the contract is ensured through technology. "With this modern technology, we are also fostering our electromobility offensive: ranging from a faster, easier and safer authentication at the charging station to the payment process," says Uwe Michael, Vice President Electric/Electronic Systems at Porsche.

    Porsche is also working on new business models based on blockchain: Through auditable data logging, the data to be processed is encrypted locally in a distributed blockchain. The user is in control of the data, deciding how to use it depending on the situation. All activities are documented in the blockchain, making deletions transparent. With this basis, the future of autonomous driving will see improved functions on offer: Local data can be used to obtain regional learning effects, which can be shared securely with other vehicles. The customer can make use of swarm data, which is protected at the same time. 

    The start-up XAIN won the first “Porsche Innovation Contest” on the subject of blockchain in the summer of last year, beating over 100 other applicants in the process. Following the contest, interdisciplinary teams from across Porsche worked in collaboration with XAIN over the course of three months to develop and test applications. Blockchain was introduced into the Porsche Panamera using an energy-efficient mining process from XAIN. In addition, Porsche is currently working on further applications for the technology, including in the areas of charging and parking. 

    XAIN offers various blockchain and artificial intelligence solutions, with a particular focus on intelligent industrial applications. The founders Leif-Nissen Lundbæk and Felix Hahmann are particularly active in the automotive industry, where the two started out their careers. Together with researchers from the University of Oxford and Imperial College London, XAIN has developed a blockchain system in recent years, which significantly reduces the energy consumption of mining. This means that the solution XAIN can offer is also suitable for mobile devices and vehicles.

    Image material in the Porsche Newsroom (http://newsroom.porsche.com) and for journalists in the Porsche press database (https://presse.porsche.de).

    Communications Porsche AG
    Corporate Communications 
    Tanja Deutschenbaur
    Phone: +49 (0) 711 / 911 27828
    E-mail: tanja.deutschenbaur@porsche.de

     


    Re: block chain

    Did we skip March and went straight to April 1st?


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    Re: block chain

    BMW also partnered with a block chain company called VeChain.

    "VeChain creates a digital passport of a vehicle recording all data including repair history, insurance, registration and even driver behaviour throughout its lifecycle. VeChain puts data into the hands of owners, making data management comprehensive, accessible and transparent."

    I would imagine Ferrari owners would be excited about the ability to track a vehicles service and accident history using block chain technology as they seem to have an obsession with this kind of thing.


    Re: block chain

    Blockchain is all about security, traceable protocols and manipulation safety.

    Just imagine a train with attached wagons and each wagon is a new encrypted transaction/communication which gets attached to the last wagon and continues on the same way along the way. Everything is traceable, everything is (almost) safe from manipulation because it is part of the same "train" (block).

    I'm not sure how to explain it better but so far, it seems to be the holy grail of security until we get something better or something which could threaten it (like quantum computing, whatever).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    I assume they want cars to communicate with each other and if so the communication needs to be secure....


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: block chain

    Pentium:

    I assume they want cars to communicate with each other and if so the communication needs to be secure....

    Next step, indeed and it makes sense, especially if autonomous driving is supposed to get safer. The Tesla way (even the Google one) is not the best way in my opinion. Cars need to communicate with each other and maybe even with sensors embedded in roads (asphalt) and/or street signs, traffic lights, etc..


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

     Thanks RC, and others, I now have a glimmer of understanding. It helps to think of block chain enabling secure transactions and communication, particularly with regard to the future of autonomous cars “talking” to each other and enabling safer transactions and driving.


    Re: block chain

    Their use cases are stupid. Blockchain for locking and unlocking doors? Retarded. This is not a good use case for this technology.

    Blockchain is about immutable data and consensus in a decentralize manner, and when in use, it's still nothing more than a very strong password. It has potential, but it's not a useful solution for the vast majority of things.

    It's not the holy grail of security. It's not even usable to secure most things.

     


    Re: block chain

    noone1:

    Their use cases are stupid. Blockchain for locking and unlocking doors? Retarded. This is not a good use case for this technology.

    Why not? It serves a purpose.

    Blockchain is about immutable data and consensus in a decentralize manner, and when in use, it's still nothing more than a very strong password. It has potential, but it's not a useful solution for the vast majority of things.

    It is very useful for a vast majority of things, especially when you need to "trust" things.

    The benefits of blockchain are vast, including reducing time (for example for finding information, settling disputes and controlling/verifying transactions), decreased cost (for example for overhead and intermediaries) and heightened risk (of collusion, fraud and tampering). I could go on with many other examples.


    It's not the holy grail of security. It's not even usable to secure most things.

    Actually, I think it is pretty safe, with some adaptations/changes even safe from "rudimentary" quantum computing issues.

    What would you use instead of blockchain?

    Btw: I said it seems to be the holy grail of security until we get something better, I didn't say it is the holy grail and there is always new stuff which will work better in a way or another.

    http://woolmagazine.com/Issue-3.0/blockchain-holy-grail-of-truth-and-trust.html

    https://www.aboutenergy.com/en_IT/topics/trakimavicius-blockchain.shtml

    Just some interesting reads... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    Vast majority of things? So how do you use blockchain to secure a server?


    Re: block chain

    I saw a great implementation of black chain and shipping containers for example...


    Re: block chain

    The down side of blockchain, which is just a high tech name for a digital ledger, is that the ledger grows to enormous size. So onboard memory for storage will be a problem.

    I believe the bitcoin ledger is now over 100GB in size.

     


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    Re: block chain

    SciFrog:

    I saw a great implementation of black chain and shipping containers for example...

    Yes, blockchain could be quite useful for shipping, logistics, supply chain stuff etc.


    Re: block chain

    Whoopsy:

    The down side of blockchain, which is just a high tech name for a digital ledger, is that the ledger grows to enormous size. So onboard memory for storage will be a problem.

    I believe the bitcoin ledger is now over 100GB in size.

     

    You don't need to store the entire blockchain in memory. I don't even think you can buy hard drives that small anymore. A 5 TB drive is like $100.


    Re: block chain

    Whoopsy:

    The down side of blockchain, which is just a high tech name for a digital ledger, is that the ledger grows to enormous size. So onboard memory for storage will be a problem.

    I believe the bitcoin ledger is now over 100GB in size.

     

    The trick is to keep encryption/security inside the ledger, the rest of data you can actually outsource. Not sure how to explain this in English but it isn't really a big issue.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    noone1:
    SciFrog:

    I saw a great implementation of black chain and shipping containers for example...

    Yes, blockchain could be quite useful for shipping, logistics, supply chain stuff etc.

    Governments trying to catch up on spending fraud... 😉


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    The down side of blockchain, which is just a high tech name for a digital ledger, is that the ledger grows to enormous size. So onboard memory for storage will be a problem.

    I believe the bitcoin ledger is now over 100GB in size.

     

    The trick is to keep encryption/security inside the ledger, the rest of data you can actually outsource. Not sure how to explain this in English but it isn't really a big issue.

     

    No, the whole point of the blockchain technology is that every single transaction ever is stored on each block for accountability and security. Each new block created contains everything new and all the old stuff. 

    Put that into old tech (pen and paper)  perspective:

    A bookkeeper keep a paper ledger for transaction. The encryption is perhaps a locked and chain, combination lock or whatever on the outside of the ledger. Every 10 mins or regular interval he starts a new ledger book (block), but the new ledger book contains everything from every books before. But that book is not kept at the book keeper's place for central storage. Each person in the office (node) also has a copy of the ledger and updates their book whenever someone else in the office made and entry. Each person has his own separate lock for their own book. They can give out key to wherever they want to open the lock and look at the book, but the pen that writes the book is under a separate lock (public/private key). So if someone loses their ledger, it's not the end of the world, someone else will have a complete copy of the ledger and business can continue. (decentralization)

    It's secure in the sense that not one person can steal the entries, someone else will always made note of the action. But not very efficient. And if there are oddities, the entry will be corrected by the majority answer. So even if someone try to cheat by 'deleting' entry, everyone else won't have that 'delete' entry and the fraud will be caught.

    In any case, there are no delete/erase function within the blockchain technology, so EVERY TRANSACTIONS EVER is recorded, network wide. 

     


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    Re: block chain

    Now that is a much better explanation than I did. 👍 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    Whoopsy:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    The down side of blockchain, which is just a high tech name for a digital ledger, is that the ledger grows to enormous size. So onboard memory for storage will be a problem.

    I believe the bitcoin ledger is now over 100GB in size.

     

    The trick is to keep encryption/security inside the ledger, the rest of data you can actually outsource. Not sure how to explain this in English but it isn't really a big issue.

     

    No, the whole point of the blockchain technology is that every single transaction ever is stored on each block for accountability and security. Each new block created contains everything new and all the old stuff. 

    Put that into old tech (pen and paper)  perspective:

    A bookkeeper keep a paper ledger for transaction. The encryption is perhaps a locked and chain, combination lock or whatever on the outside of the ledger. Every 10 mins or regular interval he starts a new ledger book (block), but the new ledger book contains everything from every books before. But that book is not kept at the book keeper's place for central storage. Each person in the office (node) also has a copy of the ledger and updates their book whenever someone else in the office made and entry. Each person has his own separate lock for their own book. They can give out key to wherever they want to open the lock and look at the book, but the pen that writes the book is under a separate lock (public/private key). So if someone loses their ledger, it's not the end of the world, someone else will have a complete copy of the ledger and business can continue. (decentralization)

    It's secure in the sense that not one person can steal the entries, someone else will always made note of the action. But not very efficient. And if there are oddities, the entry will be corrected by the majority answer. So even if someone try to cheat by 'deleting' entry, everyone else won't have that 'delete' entry and the fraud will be caught.

    In any case, there are no delete/erase function within the blockchain technology, so EVERY TRANSACTIONS EVER is recorded, network wide. 

    Sounds like an ever-growing bandwidth hog if everyone's blockchain writes copies of everyone else's every so oftwen.

    Did I screw up the understanding? 

    Or, do only the last entries get added every so often across the net?

    If so, what if not everybody receives the last entry because of net failures?


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: block chain

    Computing power goes up exponentially so far (Moore law) so it should not be an issue. Plus machine can be developed and optimized speciafically for block chain backbone.


    Re: block chain

    Updates in distributed ledgers could become relatively long - we need other algorithms for consents.  This will be more needed as IoT expand and machine to machine starts to sign smart contracts.

    Imagine in future Audi cars where you can buy AWD just instantly as a service. You are driving around on a rainy day and in one turn the car discovers that AWD is needed for your safety. Your car signs the usage of AWD with smart contracts (which are blockchain based) with AUDI AG and your car is updated for AWD. This needs to be in real-time fast and secure.  


    --

    AM


    Re: block chain

    ALDO:

    Updates in distributed ledgers could become relatively long - we need other algorithms for consents.  This will be more needed as IoT expand and machine to machine starts to sign smart contracts.

    IoT...curse and blessing at the same time. Smiley

    Imagine in future Audi cars where you can buy AWD just instantly as a service. You are driving around on a rainy day and in one turn the car discovers that AWD is needed for your safety. Your car signs the usage of AWD with smart contracts (which are blockchain based) with AUDI AG and your car is updated for AWD. This needs to be in real-time fast and secure.  

    This is the future, especially for future ELV models. Actually, this is an excellent business model for car manufacturers (and of course other manufacturers and applications). Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    The future is not nanopayments... We can already do nano billing and we don't.


    Re: block chain

    noone1:

    The future is not nanopayments... We can already do nano billing and we don't.

    You can call it as you please but this is the future. It is currently too complicated, too...how to put it...unusual and out of the ordinary but at a certain point in the future, the whole world will run on these kind of payments and services because it makes life easier, more comfortable and it would be an additional business model to exploit. How you call it and how it will look exactly doesn't matter but ALDO is right, this is how it is going to be.

    Unless of course someone comes up with an even simpler, easier and safer method. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: block chain

    nano payments is one thing smart contracting is something different. 
     

    You can imagine in the future smart contracting killing a lot of jobs - no need for banks, no need for lawyers no need for notary and no need for a lot of government.

     


    --

    AM


    Re: block chain

    Many merchants don’t even accept credit card with chips yet, let alone ApplePay and such. Nanopayment? Maybe next century...


    Re: block chain

    It has nothing to do with merchants. We need payment methods which are fast, cheap and reliable so machines can do it with a third party and without humans.

    You are referring to payment from a human. In the chain between you and the merchant are at least 4 parties:

    Your bank, credit card issuer, clearing centre, bank of the merchant. 

    In the future, you could pay directly without all these parties between making it faster and cheaper.


    --

    AM


    Re: block chain

    ALDO:

    nano payments is one thing smart contracting is something different. 

    In my opinion, smart contracting is just the next step of nano payments, call it as you wish.

    You can imagine in the future smart contracting killing a lot of jobs - no need for banks, no need for lawyers no need for notary and no need for a lot of government.

    Yes and no, depends on what governments will allow or not. Governments will never reduce their (bureaucracy) footprint, this is wishful thinking. On the contrary, I am pretty sure that governments will find a way to exploit this tech to their benefits and not ours. Look at computers: Instead of reducing bureaucracy, it has actually increased substantially because now, with computers, more bureaucracy is possible.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: block chain

    W8MM:
    Whoopsy:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    The down side of blockchain, which is just a high tech name for a digital ledger, is that the ledger grows to enormous size. So onboard memory for storage will be a problem.

    I believe the bitcoin ledger is now over 100GB in size.

     

    The trick is to keep encryption/security inside the ledger, the rest of data you can actually outsource. Not sure how to explain this in English but it isn't really a big issue.

     

    No, the whole point of the blockchain technology is that every single transaction ever is stored on each block for accountability and security. Each new block created contains everything new and all the old stuff. 

    Put that into old tech (pen and paper)  perspective:

    A bookkeeper keep a paper ledger for transaction. The encryption is perhaps a locked and chain, combination lock or whatever on the outside of the ledger. Every 10 mins or regular interval he starts a new ledger book (block), but the new ledger book contains everything from every books before. But that book is not kept at the book keeper's place for central storage. Each person in the office (node) also has a copy of the ledger and updates their book whenever someone else in the office made and entry. Each person has his own separate lock for their own book. They can give out key to wherever they want to open the lock and look at the book, but the pen that writes the book is under a separate lock (public/private key). So if someone loses their ledger, it's not the end of the world, someone else will have a complete copy of the ledger and business can continue. (decentralization)

    It's secure in the sense that not one person can steal the entries, someone else will always made note of the action. But not very efficient. And if there are oddities, the entry will be corrected by the majority answer. So even if someone try to cheat by 'deleting' entry, everyone else won't have that 'delete' entry and the fraud will be caught.

    In any case, there are no delete/erase function within the blockchain technology, so EVERY TRANSACTIONS EVER is recorded, network wide. 

    Sounds like an ever-growing bandwidth hog if everyone's blockchain writes copies of everyone else's every so oftwen.

    Did I screw up the understanding? 

    Or, do only the last entries get added every so often across the net?

    If so, what if not everybody receives the last entry because of net failures?


    --

     

    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T

     

    The blockchain is the one that contains every single entry. The blocks itself however only has the current transactions and hashed code of the previous block, linking the 2. So the 'chain' goes all the way back to the original single block. 

    A new block is generated approximately every 10 minutes or so right now for bitcoin for example.

    All these data are updated across the internet real time to other nodes that's doing transactions, each node has a copy of the whole blockchain so yeah, that's a massive data load on the network. But there is no single point of failure for the blockchain, as if one node is offline, there are many more still online and has the copy. Once that node gets back online, it will check with others to see what it missed. 

    A block, however, can be offline, as it only links to the previous block for transactions. Once it gets back online, the 'branch' becomes a permanent fixture of the whole blockchain. 

     


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