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    GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    If The Big Three don't get bailed out, what happens to Mustang, Viper, Corvette etc.?

    How soon will it be before they stop production?



    --
    2007 Turbo

    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    < 3 months. .

    Typically, you're put under receivership and the adminstrators of the trust will determine what models go and what models stay.

    Viper will definitely go...

    70/30 on the Vette will getting axed. It's a strong demand car, but not a strong seller.

    Mustang is a pretty strong seller and will probably continue.


    --
    ...the only thing stopping you, is you!

    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    OMG are they actually done soon? How are all 3 of them in the same boat? None can make it another year or so??

    I'm a Ford guy so this is especially bad... let them stop all the north american cars, they are the reason they're broke in the first place... then they can just bring in the euro cars like the fiesta, focus and mondeo with super fuel efficient econetic getting 65mpg!!!

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm?chan=autos_autos+--+lifestyle+subindex+page_top+stories


    Along with that drop the trucks completely and offer the stock from 08 and 07 all the dealers have parked rotting away on their lots. If things pick up they can continue the F150 in 2010 or something. just skip a year of production.

      http://p.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/ford-mondeo-new-2-big.jpg

     the cars are money!! bringing them here will provide the best opportunity to get out of this mess, but it is up to the American people in the end so don't have high hopes Smiley

     As to the classic cars, corvette and mustang, I think they will stay in one way or another. Maybe Tata can buy something and make it Chinese!



    --

    2005 Ford Focus S, 5spd
    1986 Porsche 944, 5spd


    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    They also have the option of selling brands to other companies. Can you imagine a Ford Challenger? It's doubtful that all three will survive. More likely, one will be absorbed by one of the other two and poor brands will be axed.

    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    Atzporsche, you don't seem to understand that the only thing keeping the big three on some shred of a lifeline, monetarily speaking, are sales of fleet and official vehicles. I dare you to find a construction or livery company that doesn't almost exclusively use Ford/Chevy/Chrysler vehicles. How about police cars for that matter?

    So, in fact, the cars aren't the "money." Furthermore they are facing the even bigger problem that all these service companies that use their vehicles are feeling pressure to cut costs and be more fuel efficient, causing them to look elsewhere for fleets. When this happens, the big three are done.

    The real root cause here is that they just don't know how to make desirable cars anymore (viper/'vette/mustang et al excluded). Ford has a very nice mondeo in europe, but the red tape is such that it can't be brought here in the same configuration. The new Chevy malibu is supposed to be quite nice, certainly up to A4 standards, but the stigma now associated with Chevy doesn't allow it to be taken seriously.

    I just don't see any way out for Detroit. A bailout will only prolong the inevitable.

    And by the way, there are Americans posting on this board who don't appreciate us all being lumped into the same boat. Many of us are just as dissatisfied with what is happening as everyone else.


    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    Whatever has to be done will and should be done to keep these companies afloat until they retool for plug-in/ hybrid future. A special one-time law should be enacted to allow for GM/chrysler merger and re-write of union contracts to make them even with transplants. They are the manufacturing base of the country and anyone who wishes for or would stand for a US without a strong manufacturing base is clueless.

    JesseBank:

    Atzporsche, you don't seem to understand that the only thing keeping the big three on some shred of a lifeline, monetarily speaking, are sales of fleet and official vehicles.

    I just don't see any way out for Detroit. A bailout will only prolong the inevitable.

    Jesse, Ford and GM have worldwide operations which are profitable. Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, and even Porsche are in the same boat right now with regards to sales. You talk as if it is only the Detroit 3 that have a sales slump. Check the monthly numbers, it's a worldwide severe recession/depression, not a poor product problem.

    Inevitable???Smiley What about Harley-Davidson? They would be just a memory under your economic view. What about Citigroup? AIG? the rest of the banking sector? 

    All of the detroits competitors come from systems where those auto companies don't have legacy costs. It's not a level playing field.


    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    Some interesting facts;

    Ford employs more U.S. workers at a single manufacturing facilitiy than Hyundai and VW employ nationwide.

    Honda is one of the largest, longest operating "transplant" manufacturers operating in the U.S., but it employs only 27,000 Americans, about a third of Chrysler's current total.

    Just a thought, Gm has 31 plants/ operations in Michigan alone. What about the new VOLT plant? Gm employs more Americans than all 16 foreign automaker combined.

    Ford operates as many assembly lines as Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai combined. 


    In Michigan alone more then 200 R&D facilities employ 65,000 R&D workers about a $10 billion per year investment into the economy. 


    Last year the domestic automakers spent approximately $222 billion on U.S. parts, steel, rubber and semiconductors. These suppliers employed about 780,000 U.S. workers.



    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    A little more education;

    http://blogs.wsj.com/autoshow/2008/12/01/gm-regional-chief-says-latin-america-plans-still-in-place/

    “We’ve got a long history in Latin America, and we are here to stay. We don’t believe bankruptcy is the scenario for GM,” the president of GM’s Latin America, Africa and Middle East division, Maureen Kempston-Darkes, told Dow Jones in a telephone interview. She said GM’s South American operations are “largely self-funded,” are posting solid revenues, “and we expect this to remain the case.” “We’ll continue to focus on tailored products and on a lean and flexible production,” she said. 

    The Latin America, Africa and Middle East region has been GM’s most profitable region in recent years amid multi-billion dollar losses on its North American home turf. Last year, the LAAM region posted a record of 1.24 million vehicle sales, up around 19% on the year. GM has been the market leader in terms of vehicle sales in South America for the past 10 years. Almost 99% of the GM vehicles sold in the region are sold under the Chevrolet brand. Brazil is
    Chevrolet’s largest market outside the U.S. with sales of 499,000 vehicles last year. 

    It’s GM’s third largest market world-wide behind the U.S. and China.


    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    Ford tops safe car list


    By KEN THOMAS
    The Associated Press 
    Tuesday, November 25, 2008; 12:04 AM 


    WASHINGTON -- Dozens of new cars and trucks, led by Ford Motor Co. and its Volvo subsidiary, made the insurance industry's annual list of the safest vehicles, helped by the growing adoption of anti-rollover technology. 

    For the 2009 model year, Ford and Volvo have 16 vehicles on the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's list of the safest cars, followed by Honda Motor Co. with 13 vehicles, the institute said Tuesday.

    Ford's top performers include the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan midsize cars with optional ESC, the Ford F-150 pickup, Ford Edge and Ford Flex midsize sport utility vehicles and the Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner small SUV

     

     

     

     

     

    These are incredibly large, successful, and global tech and engineering firms. And for anyone to say they should be let go because 3 guys flew on private jets to a meeting or because they are temporarily hamstrung by a bad labor contract in 1 region is NUTS! They are the most impressive Corporations in the world.

    Americans should be proud of their accomplishments and lend them a hand when they need it.



    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    I am in full support of lending them a hand, as my family's business is closely related to these multitudes of suppliers. The fact is that they are being crippled by both the UAW's refusal (until only recently) to cave on any of their ever increasing demands, and their huge level of redundancy.

    To relate an interesting story about said redundancy, my father was recently at a meeting with the Ford brass in Dearborn. His company is closely involved in aluminum tooling and has Honda NA as a very interested customer (they recently finished the rear deck of the new accord using his technology). The Ford personnel at this meeting brushed off his advancements with Honda stating that the parts made "would never pass Ford's QC standards." The fact is, while Ford et al are busying themselves worrying about their quality standards, Hyundais and Kias are selling as well. So what are those layers and layers of quality controls really doing, other than adding to the bottom line? Does the average car buyer really notice?

    Furthermore, the UAW's strict policies won't even allow for newer, better, cheaper ways of doing things. At this same meeting with Ford, he offered them the use of his technology, which cuts significant time out of producing plastic parts. The UAW representative declined stating that according to their regulations, there is a certain amount of time allocated for making plastic parts that this process would drastically undercut. As a result, they wouldn't consider cutting costs in this fashion. How is a company to streamline their operation with this sort of impediment?

    I agree that we ought not turn our backs on Detroit. The US manufacturing sector is on its last leg at this point, and we need to do everything we can to support whats left. My concern is for the long-term viability of a company that can't act on anything without 73 committee meetings, and then the UAW. With the entire world auto industry in steep decline (except for Mini somehow) some real mold-breaking ideas need to be examined and summarily funded. I fear that due to the organizational structure of the big three, that these ideas may not be allowed to surface.


    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    Great Post Jesse. (Even though I have read anecdotes that say the opposite, about Detroit taking in parts/equipment that the transplants had rejected)  Maybe your Dad just happened to meet some real Jerks, plenty out there.

    But I agree with you 100% about the layers of un-necessary white collar paper pushers and the Fat Wasteful UAW system. That's why I say give them the money AND a fix. Meaning appoint a Car Czar to go thru the contracts, the heirarchies and cut out the waste and streamline the whole operation.

    Somebody like Carl Ichan with an assist from maybe a guy like LeeIacoca. Function with special powers like a bankruptcy court but without the legal BS and stigma.


    Re: GM, Ford Dead? Corvette and Others Dead Too?

    Thank you. There are some real jerks out there.

    I think it would be a great idea to get some sort of government inquiry into where exactly the redundancy and wastefulness exists, as long as the right people are in place to do it. I guess we just have to have faith in the incoming Obama administration to put the right people in the right places. I just hope there are no complaints about government poking its nose too far into the business sector, especially with all the socialist claims against Obama during the campaign.

    On that front, I think Iacocca has already proven his worth as someone capable of resurrecting struggling auto makers, as has Carlos Ghosn, who was brought to the table by GM on this very issue a few years ago.


     
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