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    Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    I'm getting alot of flames from guys who say they are "perfectly happy" with their new 997s. Because I have expressed some regrets and disappointments about some of the cars details, some guys here have told me to shut up and buy a BMW.

    Anyway I have to re-post this as a new thread:

    You are perfectly happy with a perfect car? That's perfect!

    One problem is in the world the other people live in nothing is perfect. I have Porsche's catchphrase in mind "Excellence is Expected" in mind. I hold them to it. I EXPECT excellence in the cars they produce.

    Anybody who is perfectly satisfied with any Porsche is running counter to this Corporate slogan.

    For example: The fact that I may have to open my window a crack at 85 MPH to get a little cool air into the cabin of my GT 911, is LESS than excellent in my demanding opinion. Get it? It is embarassing (less than Excellent) that I would have to do such a thing, right?

    All my "complaints," concerns, issues, have been accompanied by detailed and reasonable explanations. I haven't in any case, nor by any means, just "trashed" the car and quickly moved on.

    Porsche should know this, we customers should never think the car is perfect. I still plan to buy a 997S and I still love the car, just the way I loved my 911T years ago. Was the 911T I had perfect? Hell no! Did I know it at the time? yes.


    What may wrong with people who think the car is perfect? ? I heard this may be the problem: they have new buyers blindness. They are now extremely loyal to the product they just spent lots of money on. It is a way to deal with anxiety of the expensive purchase: get really defensive about any mention of the products shortcomings.

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    It is not your raising the issues that you have with the 997/997S or any other car that bothers me. It is the fact that once stated you insist upon re-stating the same objections time and time again. It gets rather tiresome, at least to me.

    As for perfection, I have learned that one must appreciate anything warts and all. Perfection is rare, if it exists at all. Is the 997 or 997S perfect, no. Are there things about it I might like to see changed, probably. Am I dissatified, no. No product can please everyone. Marketing slogans aside, excellence is subjective.

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    may be you should think about it as perfect comparing to other "comparable" cars and yes I find Porsche product line perfect. Every weekend or so I have carnuts friend coming and all what we do mostly is talking about different cars and always it comes back to the perfect one - Porsche

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    Thanks for wasting two minutes of my day reading this pointless post! Cars are cars, imperfections and all, people on this board just tend to like Porsches more than others. Aren't the little imperfections, that have been mostly ironed out, what all the old guys bitch about not having anymore anyway. The way you can't "drive it like you used to" I am far to young, and have only experienced newer Porsches, to know exactly what they are talking about. Anyway I changed my mind. I am not going to get itno this, and don't know why I am now wasting others time by responding to such a pointless post!

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    Did I ever say my 997 Carrera S is perfect? Read the review and the update of the review. Of course the 997 Carrera S is not perfect. But when I buy a car, I set priorities and I surely don't avoid buying a car because I don't like the lack of a spare tire or the fake double exhaust tips.

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    Max, you know what's really sad?
    After all the fuss&drama, you didn't ask A SINGLE QUESTION about the car's performance. Not even one.
    Only petty issues and contradictory demands, repeated over and over again. The fake tips are a tragedy, but you don't care how the car drives? Da-o naibii de treaba..

    You're making a big deal out of NOTHING. I saw nobody here pretending the 997 is perfect, and yet you start a very heated thread. We know you have issues with the car, we agree with some of them, but damn man, stop beating us over the head with them over and over and over again!


    And so what if some people are PERFECTLY happy with the car?
    They know what's important for them, and don't waste their time and neurons for every little [censored].

    Be careful not to buy an older speedster, you'll be hugely surprised. Yeah, no door handles.

    There is NO such thing as a perfect car - all cars are

    compromises. The perfect car should:
    - look like a Ferrari on the outside
    - look like a Bentley on the inside
    - be as reliable as Honda,
    - hold all the kids, carseats, and Slurpees
    - be as easy to park as a Mini Cooper
    - be able to go offroading when the opportunity permits
    - be equally easy for handicapped people, 6'10" people and 4'6" people to drive and operate
    - cost no more than a low end Korean subcompact
    - be as exclusive as a Pagani Zonda so you don't see the same car at the stoplight

    If you find such a car, let me know. In the meantime, ALL cars are a set of compromises dictated by the marketing, product development, and engineering departments.

    Maybe Porsche ditched the spare tire you want so they could get a better weight distribution and higher handling limits that - traits that are more appealing to sports car customers than spare tires. Maybe it was a cost saving move to keep the price down so more customers could afford (ok this might be a stretch).

    I agree with the other posts about your repeatedly posting this for nonsensical reasons. In a free market, the consumer votes with his wallet - if you like the product, you buy it, if you don't, you don't. You can also complain about products in a free market but it's silly to try to convince this board that we should place the same priorities and value on a 997's various features as you.

    Re: There is NO such thing as a perfect car - all cars are

    Jeff, if you can take a mclaren F1 offroad, your nearly there:) or for that matter, the CGT!

    Re: There is NO such thing as a perfect car - all cars are

    agree on all of the above.....and danny911 you are absolutly right ,i feel stupid myself for wasting my time ,and my keyboard shelflife to to answer such tiresome threads....

    Its a hobby, right?

    Quote:
    danny911 said:
    Thanks for wasting two minutes of my day reading this pointless post! . Anyway I changed my mind. I am not going to get itno this, and don't know why I am now wasting others time by responding to such a pointless post!




    Gee, this and other Boards like it are basically hobbys.

    It's hard for me to think of hobbies as a waste of time.

    Since none of this is really of major significance. Maybe just ignore posts that you don't like.



    Re: Its a hobby, right?

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    Quote:
    danny911 said:
    Thanks for wasting two minutes of my day reading this pointless post! . Anyway I changed my mind. I am not going to get itno this, and don't know why I am now wasting others time by responding to such a pointless post!




    Gee, this and other Boards like it are basically hobbys.

    It's hard for me to think of hobbies as a waste of time.

    Since none of this is really of major significance. Maybe just ignore posts that you don't like.






    Your right, I just like reading what everyone posts, just some are more worthwhile and meaningful posts than others, that add to this hobby, not take away. I just really thought your post wasn't constructive at all, and although a waste of time, I returned to see if perhaps you had justified some of your points. It appears you have not, and that's a shame. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you attack a 911 on a Porschephile board, expect some backlash, especially if you didn't even bring up one valid or signifcant point. Just a place to rant about nothing.

    Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Run thru the Porsche booklets and they are always congratulating us prospective buyers as they congratulate themselves on how superior their cars are.

    Well the cars are superior to most other cars, but IMO they do have some glaring shortcomings for a GT car. None of them I see are that expensive either.

    I'll buy one anyway because I am willing to sacrifice to look beautiful in a 911.

    I'm buying the car to posess it, to own a "work of art" to have it in my garage, it's gorgeous. So what if there's a few significant problems with it? Too bad I can't get somewhere really fast with it here in the USA.

    I don't get the window thing???

    What's the problem? You're embarassed to open your window? I'm so lost.

    Re: I don't get the window thing???

    Quote:
    John SF 2005 997 S said:
    What's the problem? You're embarassed to open your window? I'm so lost.



    Disclaimer: I may be repeating in order to respond properly to your valid question

    It's a big discrepancy I think. Highly touted stereo system, excessive attention to aerodynamics to make the cabin quiet, carbon filtered air intake, claims of total GT comfort etc.

    But, travelling on a highway at speed when your feet and legs are toasty, and your wife is comfortable and asleep in the passenger seat, all of a sudden you feel a little too warm and sleepy and need a little cool air on your face. What do you do? You crack open the window and the entire balance of the GT situation changes big time. (loud, disturbing, vibrations, possibly wet with rain) Don't you expect from Porsche that you should be able to dial in a little cool air to the upper AC vents? BMW has it. Isn;t that expensive to do... .

    I'm at a loss for words. - but let me try...

    I think maybe that the point of the porsche is the driving experience - that's it's strong point. Maybe you would be better off having the 911 as a second car and then a GT or sedan as your primary driver. I guess I've never even thought about the issue you bring up for several reasons...

    #1 I usually drive with all the windows down and sunroof open

    #2 NO ONE is alseep when I'm driving.

    #3 It wouldn't bother me to open the window to cool my face if I wanted some cool air.

    #4 If I had a woman in the passenger seat who complained b/c I opened the window I would then OPEN THE DOOR and boot her out !

    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    Well the cars are superior to most other cars, but IMO they do have some glaring shortcomings for a GT car. None of them I see are that expensive either.





    Don't look now but the 911 has always had 'flaws' - let's start with the engine hung out back and a significant tendency to oversteer until the 993 model - yet that is precisely why the car appeal to many of us.

    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:

    I'll buy one anyway because I am willing to sacrifice to look beautiful in a 911.

    I'm buying the car to posess it, to own a "work of art" to have it in my garage, it's gorgeous. So what if there's a few significant problems with it? Too bad I can't get somewhere really fast with it here in the USA.



    Looks like Nick has a new friend to go to McDonald's with and grace everyone with his presence. Are you sure you want a Porsche? Usually the works of art that are garaged, and built for people to "look beautiful" in are red, have a prancing pony, and are left looking at the tailights of Porsche's. You should rethink your choice of sports car, and maybe get one of those poser cars, you know, so you can look beautful in it(thats what really matters, not performance)

    MaxErnst said:

    "Porsche that you should be able to dial in a little cool air to the upper AC vents? BMW has it."

    Go buy a BMW then!

    Re: I'm at a loss for words. - but let me try...

    Quote:
    John SF 2005 997 S said:
    I think maybe that the point of the porsche is the driving experience - that's it's strong point. Maybe you would be better off having the 911 as a second car and then a GT or sedan as your primary driver. I guess I've never even thought about the issue you bring up for several reasons...

    #1 I usually drive with all the windows down and sunroof open

    #2 NO ONE is alseep when I'm driving.

    #3 It wouldn't bother me to open the window to cool my face if I wanted some cool air.

    #4 If I had a woman in the passenger seat who complained b/c I opened the window I would then OPEN THE DOOR and boot her out !



    Thanks for having a sense of humor. I definitely get what you're saying.

    As you get older you think of the "Three Cs" comfort convenience and safety.

    If I have to mess with alot of AC controls to respond to the changing factors of the cabin's micro climate, then I think it's too inconveeeeeeeeeeeenient!

    In another ten or fifteen years maybe I'll be too grown up for a Porsche, definitely too old to change a tire; so no spare won't be a problem.




    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    One problem is in the world the other people live in nothing is perfect. I have Porsche's catchphrase in mind "Excellence is Expected" in mind. I hold them to it. I EXPECT excellence in the cars they produce.

    For example: The fact that I may have to open my window a crack at 85 MPH to get a little cool air into the cabin of my GT 911, is LESS than excellent in my demanding opinion. Get it? It is embarassing (less than Excellent) that I would have to do such a thing, right?

    All my "complaints," concerns, issues,




    Here's a quote from a later thread- you stated it Max, and I think it pretty much sums up how we feel, and maybe you should just follow your own advice-

    "So what if there's a few significant problems with it?"

    Exactly! So what, my Boxster isn't perfect, There are still some electronic glitches that drive me nuts, but would I trade it for a Z, or SLK- Hell no! I know every car I drive, I will find something I don't like, but with Porsche it rarely is anything to do with the cars performance and ability. Anyway, I think you should look at what you've said and take it to heart.

    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:


    Go buy a BMW then!




    Nah, I already have one. (owned three before). Not really a solution because I like Porsches too and can afford them. I guess simple things like a decent AC system is too much to ask for. After Porsche's much touted extreme attention to development of seats, sound system, cabin ergonomics design, a decent AC system is definitely asking too much..


    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    a decent AC system is definitely asking too much..


    It is way better than in the 911T.

    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    DD694 said:
    Quote:
    a decent AC system is definitely asking too much..


    It is way better than in the 911T.




    heheheheeeee! Thanks I needed that!!


    Beautiful Posers All

    Quote:
    danny911 said: Are you sure you want a Porsche? Usually the works of art that are garaged, and built for people to "look beautiful" in are red, have a prancing pony, and are left looking at the tailights of Porsche's. You should rethink your choice of sports car, and maybe get one of those poser cars, you know, so you can look beautful in it(thats what really matters, not performance)





    We're all posers, Porsche and Ferarri. Both are excellent cars both are beautiful beyond belief.

    Why are we posers? If you drive on US highways why is the speed limit 55 and the 997S can go 182 MPH?

    We are posers because even if we drive the carto it's limits _safely_ thru the twisties, most cops would still give us a ticket for wreckless driving.

    No, my friend and fellow Porschephile, I think: strictly speaking we're all posers and we all should look beautiful doing it.




    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Say, MaxErnst, how about this as a solution to your dilemma with heat for your sleeping spouse and A/C to your face:

    Reach over and close the right-hand and center-right vents
    Direct the left-hand and center-left vents at your face
    Press the Seat Heater button for the passenger seat
    Press the button directing air to the Center & Outboard vents
    Turn up the fan and lower the temperature until your face is icy cold.

    If that does not work, pull over and take a walk around the car a few times.

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    There are no perfect cars. Pick your compromises and what's most important to you. I'm a "car guy" and have owned over 40 cars- none perfect. If I had 40 wives, it would probably be the same result (albeit more expensive). A couple months ago Autoweek magazine ran an article about how more choices in cars actually caused more anxiety, indescision and regret after the purchase for those that thoroughly research, have the $$, and put lots of time and research into their eventual purchase. There is always that doubt, the little things that aren't perfect, etc. If you're not a car person, you get the Accord or Camry and not think twice about it. If you're an enthusiast, you worry that the 996 headlights don't look as good as the 993 or 997's and take for granted the other 100 things the car does better than the Camry. The more choices we have the more we expect and the easier it is that we are disassistified. It's not just cars- my daughter was thrilled to get into a decent colege; my son is agonizing over Dartmouth, Stanford or Duke...each with it's own virtues, problems, and compromises but all great in it's own way depending on what you want. It seems the more choices we have, the greater our expectation and the more disappointed we have if all our expectations aren't met.

    I know, we spend our hard earned $ on a fine car and we expect it to be perfect. Such is life.

    Re: Don't be a 997 Porsche Wussy

    Quote:
    kkeating said: It seems the more choices we have, the greater our expectation and the more disappointed we have if all our expectations aren't met.





    True, embarassingly true. Only one solution: you gotta have a sense of humor about it! Thanks for the astuteness of your post!


    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    DD694 said:
    Say, MaxErnst, how about this as a solution to your dilemma with heat for your sleeping spouse and A/C to your face:

    Reach over and close the right-hand and center-right vents
    Direct the left-hand and center-left vents at your face
    Press the Seat Heater button for the passenger seat
    Press the button directing air to the Center & Outboard vents
    Turn up the fan and lower the temperature until your face is icy cold.

    If that does not work, pull over and take a walk around the car a few times.



    Nah, Insted of closing vents and moving dials I was hoping more than two of the 50 console buttons would be included in your recommended procedure.

    I'll just open the window at 90 mph and blow all the serenity out the window.


    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    I'll just open the window at 90 mph and blow all the serenity out the window.




    MaxErnst, I think I now understand the reason for the tone and content of your posts.

    You obviously suffer from an irresistable urge to blow all the serenity out the window!

    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    I'll just open the window at 90 mph and blow all the serenity out the window.




    MaxErnst, I think I now understand the reason for the tone and content of your posts.

    You obviously suffer from an irresistable urge to blow all the serenity out the window!



    heheheheheeee, I guess you're right. I dunno why, I can't just relax and accept: I always gotta "fix" things/situations. I see them "broken" and I gotta get in there and make it right.

    maybe I should start drinking as a hobby.


    Re: Here's my point (you asked, so I repeat)

    Quote:
    MaxErnst said:
    maybe I should start drinking as a hobby.




    So we can rule that out as the possible cause of your current condition, at least.

    Do try it, if only to avoid the risk of you driving other board members to drink.

     
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