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    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    What I'd really like to know is, why is it whenever someone brings up a thread comparing the Z06, F430, 997TT, etc on any of the forums, it quickly becomes a "pissing" contest. Folks just LOVE to add to the fire everywhere I go. I avoid doing that because I know exactly where it will go.

    As for my opinions, I have none. I bought the 997TT because I wanted it. Others buy the Z06 or the F430 because they want it. Life doesn't always have to be all about which is better than the other. There's more to life than that. Okay, I'm getting off my soapbox now. We're all car enthusiasts here, right guys?



    It seems for reasons I can't fully understand that the Z06 in particular seems to be the whipping boy on any board . Z06 vs M5, Z06 vs E63, Z06 vs 911TT, Z06 vs F430, Z06 vs Viper or Shelby, Z06 vs ( name your favorite ) Rice Rocket ... I'm sure if you search hard enough , there's a heated Z06 vs Prius thread somewhere

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Quote:
    Just drive your car and enjoy it for what it is, if you really really need to justify your purchase (Z06 or 997 T) then go buy both and you be the tester instead of 20 magazines. Then let us know what you find, that to me has more credibility



    You mean like the guy who just posted that he has both and says the TT is faster?


    I do understand what you're saying, the truth is that the cars are too diverse in their recorded specs, from so many places, that it comes to driver skill and conditions of the test. I posted just a few articles from "big" magazines; I don't know what else I can say.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    bondmid003 said:
    there is another guy on corvetteforum that has both and he says the Z is faster...who's right?






    The two contradicting statements point to the (simple) truth: both cars are pretty much identical as far as performance is concerned. Any performance differences seem to be marginal

    Thus, no need for heated discussions. Very similar performance, different prices, different product quality. Everybody may pick whatever he or her prefers



    Thank you! I provided a few articles to prove this point, but I guess people enjoy the rivalry.

    Re: Well yeehaw and golleee.

    Quote:
    twinturbo001 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    twinturbo001 said:
    I own both cars a 07Z and a 997TT and there is no comparison the TT is a far better car.



    I assume you bought the TT for all around performance. The Z06 beats it in every performance category.

    If you paid an additional $70,000 for the Porsche name I ask you where is the value? The 997TT will depreciate faster than the Z06.

    If quality is what your referring to I have no doubt the Z06 longevity will be as good if not better than the TT.

    If tracking the car is a consideration then I am puzzled. Porsche voids the warranty for tracking and GM does not.

    Now why is the 997TT a far better car?


    Do you own Either car?? If you do like I do then you understand why I made the comments I did, If you don't then you've read too many Magazines. The Z06 is a Bitch to launch my TIP TT will smoke it out of the hole its not until 100 MPH that the Z catches up. The fit and Finish on the TT is so much better then the Z its not a comparison. The technology of the TT is also far better and you can drive the TT in any conditions rain Snow ETC. The roofs haven't flown Off the TT like the 06Z. Theres also a problem with the Z06 clutch(I experienced this first hand) sometimes the Clutch won't come off the floor when you heat it up. Quality wise the TT is far better quality and if you happen to read any quality reports on Porsche you would know that the Porsche Rivals Lexus for Quality, GM has twice as many Warranty claims as Porsche. Any More questions?



    I have one As far as taking off goes, how did you expect an automatic AWD car spooling off the line to do against a 6-speed manual RWD car?

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Why is it so hard for some Porsche owners to just accept the facts? I don't get it. The Porsche is the better all around car. We all know this, as do I as a Z06 owner. The Porsche is more refined, better ride, more luxerious, more exclusive. These are things one can't argue because they are true.

    Why is it that as a Z06 owner, I don't have a problem admitting the facts yet, as Porsche owners, you do?? Is it some kind of insecurity complex? Like "[beep], I spent 130K on my car, it can't possibly be slower than a 70K Z06??"

    The only time the TT will be close with the C6 Z06 is when racing from a dig UP TO THE 1/4 mile point. That is it. After that, it will get passed. Even within the 1/4, if the Z06 driver is very competent, then the Z06 will win. How many times did you hear about a 997 TT running mid-low 11's stock @124+ mph? I sure haven't. How many times have you heard of a Z06 doing it? More than a dozen, with me being one of them. It took a Protomotive stage I 997 TT to run an [Email]11.3@124[/Email] mph, something a Z06 has done bone stock by SEVERAL different owners.

    Get over it people, the TT IS NOT AS QUCIK AS THE Z06. It is close from a dig up the 1/4 mile, and that is about it. from any roll, the TT is histroy. There is no shame in that. The F430, Gallardo, and some other exotics are also slower. SO WHAT??

    Please explain to me why you guys can't accept the fact that the Z06 is the overall quicker car especially when what I said above has been backed up by mags and now a video??

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Why is it so hard for some Porsche owners to just accept the facts? I don't get it. The Porsche is the better all around car. We all know this, as do I as a Z06 owner. The Porsche is more refined, better ride, more luxerious, more exclusive. These are things one can't argue because they are true.

    Why is it that as a Z06 owner, I don't have a problem admitting the facts yet, as Porsche owners, you do?? Is it some kind of insecurity complex? Like "[beep], I spent 130K on my car, it can't possibly be slower than a 70K Z06??"

    The only time the TT will be close with the C6 Z06 is when racing from a dig UP TO THE 1/4 mile point. That is it. After that, it will get passed. Even within the 1/4, if the Z06 driver is very competent, then the Z06 will win. How many times did you hear about a 997 TT running mid-low 11's stock @124+ mph? I sure haven't. How many times have you heard of a Z06 doing it? More than a dozen, with me being one of them. It took a Protomotive stage I 997 TT to run an [Email]11.3@124[/Email] mph, something a Z06 has done bone stock by SEVERAL different owners.

    Get over it people, the TT IS NOT AS QUCIK AS THE Z06. It is close from a dig up the 1/4 mile, and that is about it. from any roll, the TT is histroy. There is no shame in that. The F430, Gallardo, and some other exotics are also slower. SO WHAT??

    Please explain to me why you guys can't accept the fact that the Z06 is the overall quicker car especially when what I said above has been backed up by mags and now a video??


    The TT is the better car no question. I like my 07Z its a stellar performer but from a stand still to 100 the TIP TT has the advantage. If you own a Z06 than you know as I do that the Z06 is very difficult to launch where as the TIP is bullet proof out of the hole. The vast majority of Z owners don't run 11's there are some good ones who do. I have made many passes in my Z and cannot run 11's. Its all about Traction management. Put 10 average Z drivers in there Z's and 10 average TT TIP drivers in there cars and see what happens, The TT will win in the quarter. I think C&D just tested a TT TIP and it ran 11.6 in the Quarter so TT's do run mid 11's.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Why is it so hard for some Porsche owners to just accept the facts? I don't get it. The Porsche is the better all around car. We all know this, as do I as a Z06 owner. The Porsche is more refined, better ride, more luxerious, more exclusive. These are things one can't argue because they are true.

    Why is it that as a Z06 owner, I don't have a problem admitting the facts yet, as Porsche owners, you do?? Is it some kind of insecurity complex? Like "[beep], I spent 130K on my car, it can't possibly be slower than a 70K Z06??"

    The only time the TT will be close with the C6 Z06 is when racing from a dig UP TO THE 1/4 mile point. That is it. After that, it will get passed. Even within the 1/4, if the Z06 driver is very competent, then the Z06 will win. How many times did you hear about a 997 TT running mid-low 11's stock @124+ mph? I sure haven't. How many times have you heard of a Z06 doing it? More than a dozen, with me being one of them. It took a Protomotive stage I 997 TT to run an [Email]11.3@124[/Email] mph, something a Z06 has done bone stock by SEVERAL different owners.

    Get over it people, the TT IS NOT AS QUCIK AS THE Z06. It is close from a dig up the 1/4 mile, and that is about it. from any roll, the TT is histroy. There is no shame in that. The F430, Gallardo, and some other exotics are also slower. SO WHAT??

    Please explain to me why you guys can't accept the fact that the Z06 is the overall quicker car especially when what I said above has been backed up by mags and now a video??



    Because they are brain washed to believe that NOTHING COMPARES to a Porsche. It is similiar to the old joke that a wife catches her husband in bed with another woman and the husband denies the event. He states "Who are you going to believe; your eyes or what I tell you?" Porsche owners believe what they are told.

    Twin Turbo has a TT and a Z06 which he proceeds to tells us is a piece of "sh*t. Now granted I am not the brightest bulb on the block but how does one buy a piece of sh*t without knowing it? Then he insults the intelligence of the board by claiming the Z06 is more exclusive than the 430. Obviously, he must feel Porsche owners believe what they are told and not what they see.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    twinturbo001 said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Why is it so hard for some Porsche owners to just accept the facts? I don't get it. The Porsche is the better all around car. We all know this, as do I as a Z06 owner. The Porsche is more refined, better ride, more luxerious, more exclusive. These are things one can't argue because they are true.

    Why is it that as a Z06 owner, I don't have a problem admitting the facts yet, as Porsche owners, you do?? Is it some kind of insecurity complex? Like "[beep], I spent 130K on my car, it can't possibly be slower than a 70K Z06??"

    The only time the TT will be close with the C6 Z06 is when racing from a dig UP TO THE 1/4 mile point. That is it. After that, it will get passed. Even within the 1/4, if the Z06 driver is very competent, then the Z06 will win. How many times did you hear about a 997 TT running mid-low 11's stock @124+ mph? I sure haven't. How many times have you heard of a Z06 doing it? More than a dozen, with me being one of them. It took a Protomotive stage I 997 TT to run an [Email]11.3@124[/Email] mph, something a Z06 has done bone stock by SEVERAL different owners.

    Get over it people, the TT IS NOT AS QUCIK AS THE Z06. It is close from a dig up the 1/4 mile, and that is about it. from any roll, the TT is histroy. There is no shame in that. The F430, Gallardo, and some other exotics are also slower. SO WHAT??

    Please explain to me why you guys can't accept the fact that the Z06 is the overall quicker car especially when what I said above has been backed up by mags and now a video??


    The TT is the better car no question. I like my 07Z its a stellar performer but from a stand still to 100 the TIP TT has the advantage. If you own a Z06 than you know as I do that the Z06 is very difficult to launch where as the TIP is bullet proof out of the hole. The vast majority of Z owners don't run 11's there are some good ones who do. I have made many passes in my Z and cannot run 11's. Its all about Traction management. Put 10 average Z drivers in there Z's and 10 average TT TIP drivers in there cars and see what happens, The TT will win in the quarter. I think C&D just tested a TT TIP and it ran 11.6 in the Quarter so TT's do run mid 11's.



    You said that the Tip is at an advantage from a dig up to 100. I never said otherwise. Actually, if you look at my post, that is exactly what I said. Hell, I will even give you more credit and say the tips advantage goes as far as the 1/4 mile point, not just up to 100. We agree here. But what you should understand is that that is THE ONLY time the TT will be close with the Z06.

    All I am saying is that the TT tip and a Z06 are close, just like you said, up to the 1/4 mile point. It will be a drivers race up to that point. But, after that, or from any roll on race, it is all over for the TT. I am not speaking out of my ass, I am stating facts.

    I have ran an 11.5 @125 in my car, a friend has ran [Email]11.39@126[/Email], and a dozen other have ran the same time or better on the forums.

    If you truly have a Z06, then you will know what I am saying is true and is objective. Not just blowing smoke out of my ass. These are facts that are backed up by mags.


    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Why is it so hard for some Porsche owners to just accept the facts? I don't get it. The Porsche is the better all around car. We all know this, as do I as a Z06 owner. The Porsche is more refined, better ride, more luxerious, more exclusive. These are things one can't argue because they are true.

    Why is it that as a Z06 owner, I don't have a problem admitting the facts yet, as Porsche owners, you do?? Is it some kind of insecurity complex? Like "[beep], I spent 130K on my car, it can't possibly be slower than a 70K Z06??"

    The only time the TT will be close with the C6 Z06 is when racing from a dig UP TO THE 1/4 mile point. That is it. After that, it will get passed. Even within the 1/4, if the Z06 driver is very competent, then the Z06 will win. How many times did you hear about a 997 TT running mid-low 11's stock @124+ mph? I sure haven't. How many times have you heard of a Z06 doing it? More than a dozen, with me being one of them. It took a Protomotive stage I 997 TT to run an [Email]11.3@124[/Email] mph, something a Z06 has done bone stock by SEVERAL different owners.

    Get over it people, the TT IS NOT AS QUCIK AS THE Z06. It is close from a dig up the 1/4 mile, and that is about it. from any roll, the TT is histroy. There is no shame in that. The F430, Gallardo, and some other exotics are also slower. SO WHAT??

    Please explain to me why you guys can't accept the fact that the Z06 is the overall quicker car especially when what I said above has been backed up by mags and now a video??



    Easy killer
    It will eventually lead to presenting people who have proof of their times and they will be the reps of their car type. Example, in the 1/4 mile there are several videos proving a stock Z06 will do high 10's at almost 130 in the quarter mile with a good driver AND Tires. Now I personally haven't seen any 997 T's able to do that yet, if someone has (even if its just one person) they need to speak up.

    Using just regular tires the TT 997 Turbo will run with the Z06 in the 1/4 mile due to its launch enhancements. Then there is the Auto-Track, this is where the big problem is, the cars are too close to call for sure. In straight line performance of 2 manual cars with tires of their choice, I believe the Z06 is going to accel past the 997 T. With all that said, the 997 T is way more refined and the best all-rounder; it scores high in a lot of categories, not just acceleration and the occasional track characteristics.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Above 250kph, the TT is faster also... Granted this is not relevant in the US with the speed limits, but then so does the quarter mile (125mph...).

    What annoys me is people telling us they don't understand why you would buy a TT for $120k with equal performance than a Z06 for $70k.

    Get real, a lot of people just don't want a cheap car (interior...) for ANY price. Why compromise when you can have everything in a TT? Sure it is more expensive, but if you can't afford it then why should you even care? The Z06 is the best performer for $70k. Fine. The TT is simply a better car and that's why it costs more.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Why is it so hard for some Porsche owners to just accept the facts? I don't get it. The Porsche is the better all around car. We all know this, as do I as a Z06 owner. The Porsche is more refined, better ride, more luxerious, more exclusive. These are things one can't argue because they are true.

    Why is it that as a Z06 owner, I don't have a problem admitting the facts yet, as Porsche owners, you do?? Is it some kind of insecurity complex? Like "[beep], I spent 130K on my car, it can't possibly be slower than a 70K Z06??"

    The only time the TT will be close with the C6 Z06 is when racing from a dig UP TO THE 1/4 mile point. That is it. After that, it will get passed. Even within the 1/4, if the Z06 driver is very competent, then the Z06 will win. How many times did you hear about a 997 TT running mid-low 11's stock @124+ mph? I sure haven't. How many times have you heard of a Z06 doing it? More than a dozen, with me being one of them. It took a Protomotive stage I 997 TT to run an [Email]11.3@124[/Email] mph, something a Z06 has done bone stock by SEVERAL different owners.

    Get over it people, the TT IS NOT AS QUCIK AS THE Z06. It is close from a dig up the 1/4 mile, and that is about it. from any roll, the TT is histroy. There is no shame in that. The F430, Gallardo, and some other exotics are also slower. SO WHAT??

    Please explain to me why you guys can't accept the fact that the Z06 is the overall quicker car especially when what I said above has been backed up by mags and now a video??



    Easy killer
    It will eventually lead to presenting people who have proof of their times and they will be the reps of their car type. Example, in the 1/4 mile there are several videos proving a stock Z06 will do high 10's at almost 130 in the quarter mile with a good driver AND Tires. Now I personally haven't seen any 997 T's able to do that yet, if someone has (even if its just one person) they need to speak up.

    Using just regular tires the TT 997 Turbo will run with the Z06 in the 1/4 mile due to its launch enhancements. Then there is the Auto-Track, this is where the big problem is, the cars are too close to call for sure. In straight line performance of 2 manual cars with tires of their choice, I believe the Z06 is going to accel past the 997 T. With all that said, the 997 T is way more refined and the best all-rounder; it scores high in a lot of categories, not just acceleration and the occasional track characteristics.



    And what you just stated is what I have said in my past two posts. The Porsche, being an auto or manual, has the advantage, in general, over the Z06 from a dig up to the 1/4 mile due to its awesome AWD and traction. But, put a GOOD driver in the Z06, and I believe the Z06 wins. Like you said, I have yet to hear about a TT run times that the Z06 has.

    From a roll, it doesn't matter. The Z06 wins because it is the quicker car, period. Please tell me you understand this.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Above 250kph, the TT is faster... Granted this is not relevant in the US with the speed limits, but then so does the quarter mile (125mph...).

    What I don't understand is people telling us they don't understand why you would buy a TT for $120k with equal performance than a Z06 for $70k.

    Get real, a lot of people just don't want a cheap car (interior...) for ANY price. Why compromise when you can have everything in a TT? Sure it is more expensive, but if you can't afford it then why should you even care? The Z06 is the best performer for $70k. Fine. The TT is simply a better car and that's why it costs more.



    I completely agree with your 2nd part, but the first part is questionable. "Faster" is a matter of speed, one could ask who has the higher top speed? In that case, the Z06. Now if there was a distance and time criteria, then who ever had the higher speed at the mark would be that particualr "test" winner.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Above 250kph, the TT is faster... Granted this is not relevant in the US with the speed limits, but then so does the quarter mile (125mph...).

    What I don't understand is people telling us they don't understand why you would buy a TT for $120k with equal performance than a Z06 for $70k.

    Get real, a lot of people just don't want a cheap car (interior...) for ANY price. Why compromise when you can have everything in a TT? Sure it is more expensive, but if you can't afford it then why should you even care? The Z06 is the best performer for $70k. Fine. The TT is simply a better car and that's why it costs more.



    I completely agree with your 2nd part, but the first part is questionable. "Faster" is a matter of speed, one could ask who has the higher top speed? In that case, the Z06. Now if there was a distance and time criteria, then who ever had the higher speed at the mark would be that particualr "test" winner.



    Exactly. The Z06 is actually the faster car while having a higher top end.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    I completely agree with your 2nd part, but the first part is questionable. "Faster" is a matter of speed, one could ask who has the higher top speed? In that case, the Z06. Now if there was a distance and time criteria, then who ever had the higher speed at the mark would be that particualr "test" winner.



    Very true. However how long can you stay at top speed before slowing down then accelerating again?

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    What annoys me is people telling us they don't understand why you would buy a TT for $120k with equal performance than a Z06 for $70k.

    Get real, a lot of people just don't want a cheap car (interior...) for ANY price. Why compromise when you can have everything in a TT? Sure it is more expensive, but if you can't afford it then why should you even care? The Z06 is the best performer for $70k. Fine. The TT is simply a better car and that's why it costs more.



    IKEA sells economy-price bookshelves which hold just as many books as high-quality customized furniture.
    IKEA sells economy-price chairs which hold just as big a butt as high-quality customized leather furniture.
    Can't say I've noticed that all the manufacturers of good quality furniture have gone broke since IKEA came on the scene, so there are obviously consumers for both "classes" of product.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).


    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Texas911 said:
    Its funny how you degrade the 997 but the 430 can't even hang with the TT.



    I hate to get into these "my d*ck is bigger than yours" threads, but a friend of mine has a C6 Z06, and from a roll the two cars did not leave each others shadow until we had to back down. My guess is all three are very similar in straight-line performance.

    Gary

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    When a Porsche owner claims the TT is quicker than the Z06, that is either a) lack of car knowledge, b) brand loyal bias, or c) plain stupid. Take your pick. Same goes for a Vet owner when the say the Vet is the better all around car.

    I wont get into what fufils what on a Porsche board, but just remember that everyone is different, and everone has different tastes/needs. Just because a Porsche is right fot you, doesn't mean everyone else will see it the same way. If that were the case, ANYONE AND EVERYONE that can afford a Porsche, will drive nothing but a Porsche. We know this is not the case. Cars are a matter of taste and preference, but I am sure you know that.

    Porsche is a great car, no doubt.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).




    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    Stop for a minute and look at both the posts, you are just about saying the same thing...and i agree. Add truth and not opinion and it is amazing how much Z06 owners and P 997 T owners DO agree.

    I did love the IKEA example though

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).




    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    Stop for a minute and look at both the posts, you are just about saying the same thing...and i agree. Add truth and not opinion and it is amazing how much Z06 owners and P 997 T owners DO agree.

    I did love the IKEA example though



    I wish i can say that I agree, but I don't. Even when the truth is spoken, some Porsche owners just don't want to believe it, and vice versa. We all want to be the best, and always defend out beloved cars, but I for one like to keep an open mind and stay objective. I just think passion blinds many out of the real world facts. It is hard to come acorss one that is open minded, not biased, and says it like it is.

    How many Porsche owners will come out and admit that the Z06 is the faster/quicker car? How many Vet owenrs will come out and admit that the Porsche is the better car? I bet you not many at all due to the reasons I stated above.

    It is just the way the world works, and sometimes it is sad. Oh well.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).




    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    Stop for a minute and look at both the posts, you are just about saying the same thing...and i agree. Add truth and not opinion and it is amazing how much Z06 owners and P 997 T owners DO agree.

    I did love the IKEA example though



    I wish i can say that I agree, but I don't. Even when the truth is spoken, some Porsche owners just don't want to believe it, and vice versa. We all want to be the best, and always defend out beloved cars, but I for one like to keep an open mind and stay objective. I just think passion blinds many out of the real world facts. It is hard to come acorss one that is open minded, not biased, and says it like it is.

    How many Porsche owners will come out and admit that the Z06 is the faster/quicker car? How many Vet owenrs will come out and admit that the Porsche is the better car? I bet you not many at all due to the reasons I stated above.

    It is just the way the world works, and sometimes it is sad. Oh well.



    For all your talk of Porsche drivers being blinded by brand loyalty, you sound surprisingly close-minded .

    No, nobody here will admit that the Z06 is the faster car, but at the same time we will all admit that the Z06 is the faster car.

    How so?

    The Porsche is faster up to around 100 mph as you've correctly stated, the Z06 then pulls away up to about 155 mph, but then the Porsche reels it in hard.

    Also, regarding top speed, the Corvette has also been tested to do less than 310 km/h and the 997TT to do 315 km/h. Then again, top speed is academic and the Turbo will get to it faster, anyway.

    Of course there is a huge difference between these two cars and their purpose:

    The Turbo is designed to be a comfortable daily driver with all the creature comforts one could want, while being blisteringly fast on rural roads and a blistering performer on the Autobahn. Of course you pay through the nose to get this combination.

    The Z06 on the other hand is designed specifically for the US market, with its strongest points being light weight and awesome mid-range acceleration. Of course it's a much rawer car, but with a 70.000-dollar price tag, it doesn't really try to be anything else.

    Could Porsche improve the mid range performance? Absolutely.
    Could Chevy improve the Vette's top end? Sure.

    They simply chose the setups as they are because they are the most suited to their target audiences.

    GforceSS, the high-speed performance argument was only confirmed by the Nardo speed test. RC had reported it several months earlier (he actually raced one several times to high 3-figure speeds).

    And the MPSC tires CAN be had with a new Turbo, that's the reason it's limited to 310 km/h (as stated by RC).

    Simply put, both cars have merit for their respectful purposes. That's it.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).




    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    Stop for a minute and look at both the posts, you are just about saying the same thing...and i agree. Add truth and not opinion and it is amazing how much Z06 owners and P 997 T owners DO agree.

    I did love the IKEA example though



    I wish i can say that I agree, but I don't. Even when the truth is spoken, some Porsche owners just don't want to believe it, and vice versa. We all want to be the best, and always defend out beloved cars, but I for one like to keep an open mind and stay objective. I just think passion blinds many out of the real world facts. It is hard to come acorss one that is open minded, not biased, and says it like it is.

    How many Porsche owners will come out and admit that the Z06 is the faster/quicker car? How many Vet owenrs will come out and admit that the Porsche is the better car? I bet you not many at all due to the reasons I stated above.

    It is just the way the world works, and sometimes it is sad. Oh well.



    It's a defensive action; each car owner has had direct attacks from ignorant people of the opposite car group. However, as you can see with this post, add truth and not attacks, and you get Z06 owners admitting the quality of the Porsche and Porsche owners admitting the quick/fast of the Z06.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    For all your talk of Porsche drivers being blinded by brand loyalty, you sound surprisingly close-minded .

    No, nobody here will admit that the Z06 is the faster car, but at the same time we will all admit that the Z06 is the faster car.

    How so?

    The Porsche is faster up to around 100 mph as you've correctly stated, the Z06 then pulls away up to about 155 mph, but then the Porsche reels it in hard.

    Also, regarding top speed, the Corvette has also been tested to do less than 310 km/h and the 997TT to do 315 km/h. Then again, top speed is academic and the Turbo will get to it faster, anyway.

    Of course there is a huge difference between these two cars and their purpose:

    The Turbo is designed to be a comfortable daily driver with all the creature comforts one could want, while being blisteringly fast on rural roads and a blistering performer on the Autobahn. Of course you pay through the nose to get this combination.

    The Z06 on the other hand is designed specifically for the US market, with its strongest points being light weight and awesome mid-range acceleration. Of course it's a much rawer car, but with a 70.000-dollar price tag, it doesn't really try to be anything else.

    Could Porsche improve the mid range performance? Absolutely.
    Could Chevy improve the Vette's top end? Sure.

    They simply chose the setups as they are because they are the most suited to their target audiences.

    GforceSS, the high-speed performance argument was only confirmed by the Nardo speed test. RC had reported it several months earlier (he actually raced one several times to high 3-figure speeds).

    And the MPSC tires CAN be had with a new Turbo, that's the reason it's limited to 310 km/h (as stated by RC).

    Simply put, both cars have merit for their respectful purposes. That's it.



    Exactly.

    He still doesn't want to admit the Z06 is not much faster, or not faster at all.
    Fact is is isn't. The Z06 is a lot of things, fast, fun, light, easy to mod and cheap and overall a car that will push other car manufacturers to better themselves.

    Anyway when the blue devil or whatever its name will come out, all the Z06 guys won't need to brag anymore. It will be faster (with the rumored HP...). It will be dangerous to drive and not $70k though. But that's for another discussion

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    This is Funny really. On a roll I don't know if the Z is faster maybe it is Don't care. Whats going to be really funny is when the 2008 Viper comes out with 615HP and 540 RWHP and spanks everybody including the Z. I am first on the list at my dealer for a 08, its going to be Beautiful to watch Dodge once again walk on everyone(I'm Ecstatic). The 08 Viper will run 10's on street tires not DR's like the Z. No way Dodge would bring out the 08 if it didn't beat the Z. 3 Mags have already tested the 08 Viper against the Z the results will be public soon.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).




    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    Stop for a minute and look at both the posts, you are just about saying the same thing...and i agree. Add truth and not opinion and it is amazing how much Z06 owners and P 997 T owners DO agree.

    I did love the IKEA example though



    I wish i can say that I agree, but I don't. Even when the truth is spoken, some Porsche owners just don't want to believe it, and vice versa. We all want to be the best, and always defend out beloved cars, but I for one like to keep an open mind and stay objective. I just think passion blinds many out of the real world facts. It is hard to come acorss one that is open minded, not biased, and says it like it is.

    How many Porsche owners will come out and admit that the Z06 is the faster/quicker car? How many Vet owenrs will come out and admit that the Porsche is the better car? I bet you not many at all due to the reasons I stated above.

    It is just the way the world works, and sometimes it is sad. Oh well.



    For all your talk of Porsche drivers being blinded by brand loyalty, you sound surprisingly close-minded .

    No, nobody here will admit that the Z06 is the faster car, but at the same time we will all admit that the Z06 is the faster car.

    How so?

    The Porsche is faster up to around 100 mph as you've correctly stated, the Z06 then pulls away up to about 155 mph, but then the Porsche reels it in hard.

    Also, regarding top speed, the Corvette has also been tested to do less than 310 km/h and the 997TT to do 315 km/h. Then again, top speed is academic and the Turbo will get to it faster, anyway.

    Of course there is a huge difference between these two cars and their purpose:

    The Turbo is designed to be a comfortable daily driver with all the creature comforts one could want, while being blisteringly fast on rural roads and a blistering performer on the Autobahn. Of course you pay through the nose to get this combination.

    The Z06 on the other hand is designed specifically for the US market, with its strongest points being light weight and awesome mid-range acceleration. Of course it's a much rawer car, but with a 70.000-dollar price tag, it doesn't really try to be anything else.

    Could Porsche improve the mid range performance? Absolutely.
    Could Chevy improve the Vette's top end? Sure.

    They simply chose the setups as they are because they are the most suited to their target audiences.

    GforceSS, the high-speed performance argument was only confirmed by the Nardo speed test. RC had reported it several months earlier (he actually raced one several times to high 3-figure speeds).

    And the MPSC tires CAN be had with a new Turbo, that's the reason it's limited to 310 km/h (as stated by RC).

    Simply put, both cars have merit for their respectful purposes. That's it.



    It reels it in hard after 155? The TT is faster to 100?
    LOL..Ok, if you say so.

    1) The Z06's 4th gear goes to 160 - FACT
    2) That test that the Z06 posted a slower time to 180 than teh TT was done in the WET. Would the wet roads have more of an effect on a rwd car than an AWD car? Of course - FACT
    3) Z06 has recorded a 0-100 in 7.6 secs - FACT
    what has the TT done?
    4) Z06 has been tested in a recent mag and recorded a top speed of 320 km/h - FACT
    What has the TT done??

    Let me know if you want any links to the above documents.

    i don't care for your opinion, as I am sure you don't care about mine.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    twinturbo001 said:
    This is Funny really. On a roll I don't know if the Z is faster maybe it is Don't care. Whats going to be really funny is when the 2008 Viper comes out with 615HP and 540 RWHP and spanks everybody including the Z. I am first on the list at my dealer for a 08, its going to be Beautiful to watch Dodge once again walk on everyone(I'm Ecstatic). The 08 Viper will run 10's on street tires not DR's like the Z. No way Dodge would bring out the 08 if it didn't beat the Z. 3 Mags have already tested the 08 Viper against the Z the results will be public soon.



    And then the SC Corvette will come out and beat the 08 Viper. Your point??

    Re: Well yeehaw and golleee.

    Well, guys, the basic cultural difference is that sports cars in Europe, had to compete within a class limited engine displacement. For example, the Porsche 1600cc engine was just below 1600ccs in order to qualify for that class. The task was then to maximize the power out of the displacement. The muscle car culture in the U.S. did not have a displacement limitation and pursued maximum output from whatever block for drag racing, etc.

    When Shelby decided to take on Ferrari in the Ferrari/Cobra wars, he had to compete within the displacement limits of the class (and won). There is a good video put out by Spirit Level Films in the UK http://www.spiritlevelfilm.webhoster.co.uk/homepage.html
    documenting the Ferrari Cobra wars. It is well worth getting as is the Rendezvous cult classic.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Quote:
    GForceSS said:
    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    I am not sure who you are talking about that says the Z06 is the "better" car. I certainly didn't. The Z06 is the quicker/faster car, YES!! Better car? NO!!

    Come on folks, don't let brand loyalty passion blind you from real world facts. I don't (As you can tell).




    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Is is not brand loyalty. Porsche just fills a specific market and they are the best at it. That's why they are the most profitable car manufacturer and that's why I own 2 P cars. Something better comes out tomorrow, I'll buy it.



    Stop for a minute and look at both the posts, you are just about saying the same thing...and i agree. Add truth and not opinion and it is amazing how much Z06 owners and P 997 T owners DO agree.

    I did love the IKEA example though



    I wish i can say that I agree, but I don't. Even when the truth is spoken, some Porsche owners just don't want to believe it, and vice versa. We all want to be the best, and always defend out beloved cars, but I for one like to keep an open mind and stay objective. I just think passion blinds many out of the real world facts. It is hard to come acorss one that is open minded, not biased, and says it like it is.

    How many Porsche owners will come out and admit that the Z06 is the faster/quicker car? How many Vet owenrs will come out and admit that the Porsche is the better car? I bet you not many at all due to the reasons I stated above.

    It is just the way the world works, and sometimes it is sad. Oh well.



    For all your talk of Porsche drivers being blinded by brand loyalty, you sound surprisingly close-minded .

    No, nobody here will admit that the Z06 is the faster car, but at the same time we will all admit that the Z06 is the faster car.

    How so?

    The Porsche is faster up to around 100 mph as you've correctly stated, the Z06 then pulls away up to about 155 mph, but then the Porsche reels it in hard.

    Also, regarding top speed, the Corvette has also been tested to do less than 310 km/h and the 997TT to do 315 km/h. Then again, top speed is academic and the Turbo will get to it faster, anyway.

    Of course there is a huge difference between these two cars and their purpose:

    The Turbo is designed to be a comfortable daily driver with all the creature comforts one could want, while being blisteringly fast on rural roads and a blistering performer on the Autobahn. Of course you pay through the nose to get this combination.

    The Z06 on the other hand is designed specifically for the US market, with its strongest points being light weight and awesome mid-range acceleration. Of course it's a much rawer car, but with a 70.000-dollar price tag, it doesn't really try to be anything else.

    Could Porsche improve the mid range performance? Absolutely.
    Could Chevy improve the Vette's top end? Sure.

    They simply chose the setups as they are because they are the most suited to their target audiences.

    GforceSS, the high-speed performance argument was only confirmed by the Nardo speed test. RC had reported it several months earlier (he actually raced one several times to high 3-figure speeds).

    And the MPSC tires CAN be had with a new Turbo, that's the reason it's limited to 310 km/h (as stated by RC).

    Simply put, both cars have merit for their respectful purposes. That's it.



    It reels it in hard after 155? The TT is faster to 100?
    LOL..Ok, if you say so.

    1) The Z06's 4th gear goes to 160 - FACT
    2) That test that the Z06 posted a slower time to 180 than teh TT was done in the WET. Would the wet roads have more of an effect on a rwd car than an AWD car? Of course - FACT
    3) Z06 has recorded a 0-100 in 7.6 secs - FACT
    what has the TT done?
    4) Z06 has been tested in a recent mag and recorded a top speed of 320 km/h - FACT
    What has the TT done??

    Let me know if you want any links to the above documents.

    i don't care for your opinion, as I am sure you don't care about mine.



    I don't really care, you're right. However, it is a funny habit we have on Rennteam, where we attempt to courteously discuss matters with one another, something which you may not have known by now.

    In any case, have you driven a Z06 against a 997TT up to 300 km/h? RC did.

    You have a test that proves that the Z06 can do 320 km/h. I have a test that proves that it only does 308 km/h.

    The test up to 180 was NOT done in the wet, but even if it were - did the Turbo have some kid of magic slippers on to help it move faster along the tarmac? Or maybe the driver had stapped an outboard engine on the back to add some extra horsepower .

    How would a mildly wet road surface negatively affect traction at 150+ mph? It's a Z06 you're talking about, not a Heffner-supercharged Viper.

    According to MOST tests, the Corvette also does 0-100 mph in over 8 seconds, sometimes even approaching 9. Conversely, I remember seeing the Turbo also doing it in under 8 seconds. Your point?


    Here are the figures from the Auto Motor und Sport Nardo Speed Test

    Corvette Z06
    Highspeed Test in ams 23/2006
    Gewicht - kg
    0 - 80 km/h - s
    0 - 100 km/h 4,0 s
    0 - 120 km/h - s
    0 - 130 km/h - s
    0 - 140 km/h - s
    0 - 160 km/h - s
    0 - 180 km/h - s
    0 - 200 km/h 11,9 s
    0 - 250 km/h 19,0 s
    0 - 300 km/h 41,8 s
    Vmax 315 km/h

    I don't see 320 km/h. Do you?

    I will give you props for having a car that has 634 litres of luggage space.

    Re: sorry Nick - tongue in cheek

    Quote:
    Fadis_z said:
    Quote:
    twinturbo001 said:
    This is Funny really. On a roll I don't know if the Z is faster maybe it is Don't care. Whats going to be really funny is when the 2008 Viper comes out with 615HP and 540 RWHP and spanks everybody including the Z. I am first on the list at my dealer for a 08, its going to be Beautiful to watch Dodge once again walk on everyone(I'm Ecstatic). The 08 Viper will run 10's on street tires not DR's like the Z. No way Dodge would bring out the 08 if it didn't beat the Z. 3 Mags have already tested the 08 Viper against the Z the results will be public soon.



    And then the SC Corvette will come out and beat the 08 Viper. Your point??


    My point is the HP Party Is On, its a great time to be alive, maybe the last blast of real power before gas mileage and green house gasses end it. The BD vette will have 650HP in 09 after the Viper has reigned supreme for at least a year. If the BD is a go as everyone says it is than the 09 Viper will have 680HP(bolt ons) and the 2010 will have 700HP.

     
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