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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SmileySmileySmiley


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    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Targa Tim:

    coming into mission e thread daily and keep reading about Tesla, so strange...

    I do not hate Tesla, but don't think I will buy one.

    I want overall handling and performance in my cars, not just straight line acceleration.  Don't care much about technology.  If Tesla can offer handling that can match performance of my Porsches, then I may look at them.

    Until you can walk to a Porsche dealer and buy a better and cheaper (vs the Tesla S) car made by Porsche, it’s all talk.

    IMHO it won’t happen like that simply for the fact that this vaporware car would be so good at the price point they hint that it would cannibalize Panamera, Cayenne and even confortable versions of 911 sales so much that it would imperil Porsche profits.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:
    RC:
    noone1:

    Don't underestimate the fact that it's an EV and those other ones aren't.

    Soon...very soon. 

    Also, cost is a major factor in Europe. Ordinary people won't buy an ELV, unless it costs the same as a regular car.

    If Diesel subsidiaries in Germany are scratched, if the government starts to subsidy ELVs more than they do now, if electricity for ELVs will be/stay cheap, I could see a shift to ELVs. Right now? Not happening.

    It will happen when VW Group and other German companies are "ready" to attack. In the end, the German government will try to support this ELV "initiative" but not now. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    You assume they won't move down market a little. You buy and R8 because you want such a class car, but can't afford a Lamborghini or whatever.

    There are plenty of people in Europe buying cars way more expensive than a Model 3. Tons of 50K+ cars in Europe. These people may simply move down a little in order to have the features of an EV, just like you did you have features of a mid-engine exotic.

    Also, the technology is making new lower end cars better than older higher-end cars. Anyone here have a Bentley? Can you remote start with LTE from your phone? I'd take a new $45K car over a 2015 Rolls Royce.

     

     

    Hmm, for what reason that's needed? I have remote start on my Odyssey and I never used it once.

    25 years ago it was cool to have a remote starter installed together with alarm and 2000W stereo in a Civic for Sound Offs. Don't think that's the case anymore.

    Right now I have an app from Porsche that I can remote sound the horn, flash the lights and lock doors and fold mirrors, that's good enough for me to scare and harass the foreman whenever my car is in the shop for service. Now that's way more fun than a remote starter. 

    Have a similar function in my new 991.2 GTS Cab, fun to use but pretty much useless. Smiley

    Remotely starting the engine? Not sure but I think this is prohibited on EU cars. What for actually? Maybe interesting if you're a mafia boss Smiley Smiley but other than that? Smiley

    Next time you're brushing snow off your windows, scraping ice, and shivering in a freezing cold car, think about it again.
     

     

    Hmm, Vancouver doesn't get THAT cold or hot, in case you didn't know.

    Modern car heaters heats up quickly, you know, that engine in the front? It has amazing heating power. So I can just start the car, have a cigarette, and the car is warmed. Plus, all my cars don't have gigantic interior volume to heat or cool.

    The van is different, it has so much volume inside that maybe a remote starter to warm it up first will help, but I just don't drive it, problem solved.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:
    RC:
    noone1:

    Don't underestimate the fact that it's an EV and those other ones aren't.

    Soon...very soon. 

    Also, cost is a major factor in Europe. Ordinary people won't buy an ELV, unless it costs the same as a regular car.

    If Diesel subsidiaries in Germany are scratched, if the government starts to subsidy ELVs more than they do now, if electricity for ELVs will be/stay cheap, I could see a shift to ELVs. Right now? Not happening.

    It will happen when VW Group and other German companies are "ready" to attack. In the end, the German government will try to support this ELV "initiative" but not now. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    You assume they won't move down market a little. You buy and R8 because you want such a class car, but can't afford a Lamborghini or whatever.

    There are plenty of people in Europe buying cars way more expensive than a Model 3. Tons of 50K+ cars in Europe. These people may simply move down a little in order to have the features of an EV, just like you did you have features of a mid-engine exotic.

    Also, the technology is making new lower end cars better than older higher-end cars. Anyone here have a Bentley? Can you remote start with LTE from your phone? I'd take a new $45K car over a 2015 Rolls Royce.

     

     

    Hmm, for what reason that's needed? I have remote start on my Odyssey and I never used it once.

    25 years ago it was cool to have a remote starter installed together with alarm and 2000W stereo in a Civic for Sound Offs. Don't think that's the case anymore.

    Right now I have an app from Porsche that I can remote sound the horn, flash the lights and lock doors and fold mirrors, that's good enough for me to scare and harass the foreman whenever my car is in the shop for service. Now that's way more fun than a remote starter. 

    Have a similar function in my new 991.2 GTS Cab, fun to use but pretty much useless. Smiley

    Remotely starting the engine? Not sure but I think this is prohibited on EU cars. What for actually? Maybe interesting if you're a mafia boss Smiley Smiley but other than that? Smiley

    Remote starting the car via the app can be useful if you drop your key or if you're in another part of the world and would like someone to move your car. In Teslas case you do the authorization via Face-ID if you have iPhone X. The HVAC system for remote pre-heating and pre-cooling is excellent and a car that is sub-zero will be toasty warm in 5-10 minutes or if it is standing in the sun on a hot summer day it will be cool in a few minutes.

    Speaking of luxury.... The Tesla HEPA filter is so efficient that you can drive behind a 30 year old diesel bus or through a forrest fire and you wont smell a thing or get any toxic fumes in the cabin. The filters are HUGE and that's why they can't be installed in cars with engine and stuff up front, because there is simply no room to install them. The optional extra Ionizer in the new Panamera is unfortunately a joke in comparison. Will we see an improvement for the Mission-E? Having fresh air in the cabin while commuting in heavy traffic is at least in my book more luxury than many other a la cart options.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    lukestern:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:
    noone1:
    RC:
    noone1:

    Don't underestimate the fact that it's an EV and those other ones aren't.

    Soon...very soon. 

    Also, cost is a major factor in Europe. Ordinary people won't buy an ELV, unless it costs the same as a regular car.

    If Diesel subsidiaries in Germany are scratched, if the government starts to subsidy ELVs more than they do now, if electricity for ELVs will be/stay cheap, I could see a shift to ELVs. Right now? Not happening.

    It will happen when VW Group and other German companies are "ready" to attack. In the end, the German government will try to support this ELV "initiative" but not now. Smiley Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    You assume they won't move down market a little. You buy and R8 because you want such a class car, but can't afford a Lamborghini or whatever.

    There are plenty of people in Europe buying cars way more expensive than a Model 3. Tons of 50K+ cars in Europe. These people may simply move down a little in order to have the features of an EV, just like you did you have features of a mid-engine exotic.

    Also, the technology is making new lower end cars better than older higher-end cars. Anyone here have a Bentley? Can you remote start with LTE from your phone? I'd take a new $45K car over a 2015 Rolls Royce.

     

     

    Hmm, for what reason that's needed? I have remote start on my Odyssey and I never used it once.

    25 years ago it was cool to have a remote starter installed together with alarm and 2000W stereo in a Civic for Sound Offs. Don't think that's the case anymore.

    Right now I have an app from Porsche that I can remote sound the horn, flash the lights and lock doors and fold mirrors, that's good enough for me to scare and harass the foreman whenever my car is in the shop for service. Now that's way more fun than a remote starter. 

    Have a similar function in my new 991.2 GTS Cab, fun to use but pretty much useless. Smiley

    Remotely starting the engine? Not sure but I think this is prohibited on EU cars. What for actually? Maybe interesting if you're a mafia boss Smiley Smiley but other than that? Smiley

    Remote starting the car via the app can be useful if you drop your key or if you're in another part of the world and would like someone to move your car. In Teslas case you do the authorization via Face-ID if you have iPhone X. The HVAC system in the Tesla for remote pre-heating and pre-cooling is probably the best in the business and a car that is sub-zero will be hot and warm in just 5-10 minutes or if it is standing in the desert it will be cool in no time.

    Speaking of luxury.... The Tesla HEPA filter is so efficient that you can drive behind a 30 year old diesel bus or through a forrest fire and you wont smell a thing or get any toxic fumes in the cabin. The filters are HUGE and that's why they can't be installed in cars with engine and stuff up front, because there is simply no room to install them. The optional extra Ionizer in the new Panamera is unfortunately a joke in comparison. Will we see an improvement for the Mission-E? Having fresh air in the cabin while commuting in heavy traffic is at least in my book more luxury than many other a la cart options.

    Some investors are rather sceptical that Tesla has a technological lead over established Automotive Manufacturers...

    Link: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/12/14/kynikos-jim-chanos-teslas-elon-musk-has-a-broad-interpretation-of-the-truth.html


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    My kids Sonata had remote start five years ago. Not to mention Bluetooth everything.  Noone makes a fine point that there is more tech advancement in mass market products which are relatively cheap than in low volume expensive exotic cars.  The investment in tech is not as easy to recover. You can dog the utility of remote start but the facts remain. More features can be found on far cheaper cars and they are generally included free to boot. Arguing otherwise is silly like arguing you don’t want extra money cause there is no room in your wallet. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It's nearly 2018 and my coffee maker has Wifi. My lightbulbs get firmware updates. How many Mercedes do? How many Porsches?

    I don't know how much of a technology advantage Tesla has over the others, but it's plainly obvious that the traditional manufacturers are ridiculously out of touch with the "latest" digital trends/technologies.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    It's nearly 2018 and my coffee maker has Wifi. My lightbulbs get firmware updates. How many Mercedes do? How many Porsches?

    I don't know how much of a technology advantage Tesla has over the others, but it's plainly obvious that the traditional manufacturers are ridiculously out of touch with the "latest" digital trends/technologies.

     

    Why complicate things when they are simple? Why is it that coffee maker needs wifi? Do you have a wifi connected toaster too? Or microwave oven? 

    What's next? Tesla gonna invent tires that need firmware updates and wifi connected? Smiley Or someone else invented a biometric enabled beer bottle so only adults can open and drink them?

    The Philips LED bulbs in my house are working fine even after 5 years, don't think they need firmware updates. Hell they don't even need changing yet.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
     

    Link: https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/12/14/kynikos-jim-chanos-teslas-elon-musk-has-a-broad-interpretation-of-the-truth.html

     

    Is that pic a failure of the autopilot or the auto park? Or a new function auto crash?

    I have a great idea for auto pilot enabled cars, not just Tesla but everyone else.

    The driver has to put on a pair of VR goggles that display the forward vision before autopilot can be engaged. So the driver will see what's coming up and can react if the car fails to react. So the drivers cannot be distracted or otherwise engaged in other unsafe activities. 

    Make it like the seatbelt rule. Smiley


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I have Philips Hue bulbs and they just got updates along with the bridge. Your light bulbs might work fine, but are they control by your phone/Alexa/whatever? I find it quite nice and useful being able to control the lighting through Alexa of my phone.

    Would I need/want wireless/smart device for everything? No. Would it be nice to have in some things? Sure. Is a car one of those things that could benefit? Absolutely.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Only thing I need to have connectivity is my laptop and phone.

    Definitely don't want my car to be connected to the internet even if I loose the convenience of a warm seat on a cold day.

    It is not just information security anymore, but safety and privacy are even more important and I've seen too many failures in IoT and other connected systems to know that only a single vulnerability is needed for a breach to occur and information to be stolen. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    I have Philips Hue bulbs and they just got updates along with the bridge. Your light bulbs might work fine, but are they control by your phone/Alexa/whatever? I find it quite nice and useful being able to control the lighting through Alexa of my phone.

    Would I need/want wireless/smart device for everything? No. Would it be nice to have in some things? Sure. Is a car one of those things that could benefit? Absolutely.

     

    You have a urgent need to change light colors often? Like every night you prefer to have your bed room looks like the red light district of Amsterdam? Then back to normal white light in the morning?

    The only IoT household item I think is indispensable is the August lock. I hate carrying house keys.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Philips Hue is just the brand. The lights are normal colors. They aren't used for changing color, they're used for telling it what lights I want to turn off/on -- main light, left lamp, right lamp, desk, foyer, living room, porch, etc.

    I almost bought an August Lock, but haven't decided if I think it's good enough or not.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I can't believe you guys arguing about these, leave the kid alone mailangry


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    It's nearly 2018 and my coffee maker has Wifi. My lightbulbs get firmware updates. How many Mercedes do? How many Porsches?

    I don't know how much of a technology advantage Tesla has over the others, but it's plainly obvious that the traditional manufacturers are ridiculously out of touch with the "latest" digital trends/technologies.

    This is also the reason why this headline will make it's way to major publications at some point: "Tesla cars hacked, none of them are safe anymore, hackers can take full control...". Smiley

    You wouldn't believe the depth of certification processes for electronic systems in cars, safety comes first. 

    I do not say that Tesla cars are unsafe but there is a reason why systems with more "access" are more likely to be penetrated than systems with less "access".


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    Targa Tim:

    coming into mission e thread daily and keep reading about Tesla, so strange...

    I do not hate Tesla, but don't think I will buy one.

    I want overall handling and performance in my cars, not just straight line acceleration.  Don't care much about technology.  If Tesla can offer handling that can match performance of my Porsches, then I may look at them.

    Until you can walk to a Porsche dealer and buy a better and cheaper (vs the Tesla S) car made by Porsche, it’s all talk.

    IMHO it won’t happen like that simply for the fact that this vaporware car would be so good at the price point they hint that it would cannibalize Panamera, Cayenne and even confortable versions of 911 sales so much that it would imperil Porsche profits.

    I don't know what you are talking about, there are plenty of cars I can buy at Porsche that are cheaper than a Tesla S, and can offer me tremendous driving pleasure.

    How do you define a better car?  do you know what driving pleasure means?

    I will take my 11 years old 911 club coupe over any Tesla in a heartbeat.

    All these new technologies in cars are nice, but not essential in my car buying.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    We are talking about the Mission E vs some existing Porsche models no?

    And if you think there is no cross shopping between a Panamera and a plush 911 then I would say you are wrong. You should see the number of 911 driven by women here, even 911 TTS cab...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    We are talking about the Mission E vs some existing Porsche models no?

    And if you think there is no cross shopping between a Panamera and a plush 911 then I would say you are wrong. You should see the number of 911 driven by women here, even 911 TTS cab...

    NO, I was talking Tesla vs Porsche models...Smiley

    My only point in this thread is I like cars that can provide me with driving pleasure, but not driving technologies.  That's why I am willing to drive an old 911 rather than a new Tesla.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Targa Tim:
    SciFrog:

    We are talking about the Mission E vs some existing Porsche models no?

    And if you think there is no cross shopping between a Panamera and a plush 911 then I would say you are wrong. You should see the number of 911 driven by women here, even 911 TTS cab...

    NO, I was talking Tesla vs Porsche models...Smiley

    My only point in this thread is I like cars that can provide me with driving pleasure, but not driving technologies.  That's why I am willing to drive an old 911 rather than a new Tesla.

    I am a huge technology geek, nerd, whatever, I always go for the latest crap but Tesla cars? Don't tickle my fancy a bit. Smiley I love the tech in a Tesla but I love emotional driving even more and ELVs just don't cut it (yet).Self-driving, autonomous driving, whatever? Biggest nightmare for me. Where is that vomit smiley again when you need it?! Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Leawood911:

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     

    That will eventually rule out all (new) cars forever. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    neunelf:
    Leawood911:

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     

    That will eventually rule out all (new) cars forever. 

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Leawood911:

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     

     

    In your car there is only one.............

    Modern Porsches in PDK have TWO! Smiley


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    Modern Porsches in PDK have TWO! Smiley

    That's nice, one for each foot Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     

     

    In your car there is only one.............

    Modern Porsches in PDK have TWO! Smiley

    I saw that one coming. Mr ‘R’. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    neunelf:
    Leawood911:

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     

    That will eventually rule out all (new) cars forever. 

    Smiley Smiley Smiley

    Obviously but I fail to see why car fans like us would be happy about it. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    You prefer to shift manually as I recall. 

    Biggest nightmare for me is cars without clutches.  That rules out Tesla forever  

     

     

    In your car there is only one.............

    Modern Porsches in PDK have TWO! Smiley

    I saw that one coming. Mr ‘R’. 

     

    Smiley

    You meant clutch pedal Smiley


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    AP911:

    Only thing I need to have connectivity is my laptop and phone.

    Definitely don't want my car to be connected to the internet even if I loose the convenience of a warm seat on a cold day.

    It is not just information security anymore, but safety and privacy are even more important and I've seen too many failures in IoT and other connected systems to know that only a single vulnerability is needed for a breach to occur and information to be stolen. 

    Totally agree with this....


    --

    ‘12 TTS   Incoming ‘18 GT3 Y79  There's no accounting for taste....


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    We live in the 21st century, you cannot avoid this stuff anymore, just make sure you are as safe as possible. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    We live in the 21st century, you cannot avoid this stuff anymore, just make sure you are as safe as possible. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     

     

    For what reason?

    I get traffic updates from Satellite radio. 

    And Siri is just basically a button press away. 

    No need for car to be connected.


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