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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    If they are trading on inside information, their going to jail.enlightened

    Understanding that your company’s market cap is overvalued isn’t necessarily worthy of 10b-5 enforcement.  Insider trading only occurs if that seller sold before the release of materially significant news.   Believing that the stock is worth less than what the market believes doesn’t constitute insider information as insider transactions are made available to the other market participants.  

    I am very familiar with 10b-5 trading. ENOUGH TO KNOW that it doesn't take much to become a target for illegal insider trading. Here is a quick summary.

    https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersinsiderhtm.html

    If Tesla executives are bailing on the company because they have reason to believe the stock will tank they need to disclose BEFORE selling. That's not to say there couldn't be a clean transaction in a sale but executives must jump through several hoops to make it clean.Smiley


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    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    If they are trading on inside information, their going to jail.enlightened

    Understanding that your company’s market cap is overvalued isn’t necessarily worthy of 10b-5 enforcement.  Insider trading only occurs if that seller sold before the release of materially significant news.   Believing that the stock is worth less than what the market believes doesn’t constitute insider information as insider transactions are made available to the other market participants.  

    I am very familiar with 10b-5 trading. ENOUGH TO KNOW that it doesn't take much to become a target for illegal insider trading. Here is a quick summary.

    https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersinsiderhtm.html

    If Tesla executives are bailing on the company because they have reason to believe the stock will tank they need to disclose BEFORE selling. That's not to say there couldn't be a clean transaction in a sale but executives must jump through several hoops to make it clean.Smiley

    10b5-1 plans to pre-sell options, is one mechanism.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    to both CGX and Boxeter coup, Thanks for information and best explanation I could get and understand. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Indeed they are deep thoughtful professional explanations. The real questions are: does it really  apply to Tesla and why is the stock trading 3 to 5 times the real value? angrysmiley

    Markets can be stronger than metrics for extended periods of time, just look at the VW/Porsche stock prices a few years ago... The question is how much can you loose before being right? So far it is in the billions...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    Indeed they are deep thoughtful professional explanations. The real questions are: does it really  apply to Tesla and why is the stock trading 3 to 5 times the real value? angrysmiley

    Markets can be stronger than metrics for extended periods of time, just look at the VW/Porsche stock prices a few years ago... The question is how much can you loose before being right? So far it is in the billions...

     

    All the credit has to go to Elon. Hats off to him for selling his dream to Wall Street. And Wall Street bought it.

    His tactic of portraying Tesla not as a car company but a tech company is very successful and hence the higher multiple on stock prices. 

    His original vision of not following car manufacturing tradition, trying to blaze a new trail, is quite brave, and the street bought into it. But he forgot to check on history of automation, or he underestimate the importance of human input. Granted, robot technology has improved many times over since those failed automation experiment by other manufacturers, but he just found out even with the improvements, robots are still not up to par, now he is paying for it dearly in making the Model 3. 

    But the Tesla story had been played out many many times over in all the industries, not just tech sector, a hot shot start up became the darling of everyone, but instead of sticking to the basics on what got them successful in the first place, they expand too fast, stretching too thin and far, and had to face the consequences. 

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo

    I am very surprised you missed the reference...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo

    I am very surprised you missed the reference...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html

     

    That was the fun time!

    As it happens, both the hedge funds and WW saw the weakness in VW, they strike in different ways.

    WW, together with the Porsche clan, saw a way for them to take over VW, the Piech clan. Hedge funds on the other hand smell blood in the water was wanted to make a quick profit.

    They collided. neither came out rosy. Short sellers lose a bunch, Porsche got weakened so much that Piech via VW took control of Porsche. WW and the Porsche clan lost. 

    Had the economy didn't turn sour all of a sudden, I believe Porsche would have been successful in acquiring VW. The VAG as we know it now would have been very different.

    The organizational flow chart of VAG would look very different. Piech wouldn't got to as powerful as he was, he would only be kept on the board as just another board member. Audi would lose it's all powerful guardian angel as in Piech.  Dieselgate wouldn't have happened, Audi would not have the R8, Porsche would ave return to racing Le Mans sooner.

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo

    I am very surprised you missed the reference...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html

    Didn’t consider all the possible topics germane to the Tesla topic.   However, this move is legendary and one has used Porsche and Volkswagen in several talks and seminars over the years.  Not often is there a company with greater profits than revenue.   Even over that time period General Motors essentially functioned as a financial institution through General Motors Acceptance Corporation.  During the mid-00’s, the markets had signaled that GM should exit the car making business and exist as a bank.  This was apparent when one determined the book value of GMAC and the market cap of GM.   The market had placed a negative valuation on the car business. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo

    I am very surprised you missed the reference...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html

    Didn’t consider all the possible topics germane to the Tesla topic.   However, this move is legendary and one has used Porsche and Volkswagen in several talks and seminars over the years.  Not often is there a company with greater profits than revenue.   Even over that time period General Motors essentially functioned as a financial institution through General Motors Acceptance Corporation.  During the mid-00’s, the markets had signaled that GM should exit the car making business and exist as a bank.  This was apparent when one determined the book value of GMAC and the market cap of GM.   The market had placed a negative valuation on the car business. 

    Only proves experts more often than not don't have a clue as to whether a business is viable or not. I suspect the same for Tesla.Smiley


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo

    I am very surprised you missed the reference...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html

    Didn’t consider all the possible topics germane to the Tesla topic.   However, this move is legendary and one has used Porsche and Volkswagen in several talks and seminars over the years.  Not often is there a company with greater profits than revenue.   Even over that time period General Motors essentially functioned as a financial institution through General Motors Acceptance Corporation.  During the mid-00’s, the markets had signaled that GM should exit the car making business and exist as a bank.  This was apparent when one determined the book value of GMAC and the market cap of GM.   The market had placed a negative valuation on the car business. 

    Only proves experts more often than not don't have a clue as to whether a business is viable or not. I suspect the same for Tesla.Smiley

    nberry, given your wisdom and experience in legal matters, it would be great to hear your view on the following report...

    ...would that raise any red flags in your opinion, or would you recommend discounting such research? Smiley

    It's certainly not my area of expertise, so would appreciate others' perspective on the report.

    Thanks for your considered feedback! 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:

    Thanks for the effort to type out the explanations in simple terms most people can understand.

    +1 I can honestly say that cleared up a few points for me. Thanks Nick for adding to it as well. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    If I was an investor in Tesla, I would consider the SEC investigations a red flag. 


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:
    CGX car nut:

    For reference linked is a Morningstar report on Volkswagen.  While the analysis is brief, it is comprehensive.  http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=860511&SR=Yahoo&yptr=yahoo

    I am very surprised you missed the reference...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html

    Didn’t consider all the possible topics germane to the Tesla topic.   However, this move is legendary and one has used Porsche and Volkswagen in several talks and seminars over the years.  Not often is there a company with greater profits than revenue.   Even over that time period General Motors essentially functioned as a financial institution through General Motors Acceptance Corporation.  During the mid-00’s, the markets had signaled that GM should exit the car making business and exist as a bank.  This was apparent when one determined the book value of GMAC and the market cap of GM.   The market had placed a negative valuation on the car business. 

    Only proves experts more often than not don't have a clue as to whether a business is viable or not. I suspect the same for Tesla.Smiley

    Consider what happened over that time period at General Motors.  Rick Waggoner decided to sell control of GMAC to Cerberus for roughly $7.4 billion with a corresponding payout over, if one recalls correctly, ten years.  GM retained a 49.9% interest.  GM then used the proceeds to prop up its balance sheet with its large employee pension and healthcare obligations.  By August 2007, the credit crunch began and GMAC, combined with Chrysler Finance, was not able to place paper for its funding activities.  Once cars sales fell, the writing was on the wall for GM.  The rest is political; one will refrain from discussing to stay within the now established parameters of RT.   

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    If I was an investor in Tesla, I would consider the SEC investigations a red flag. 

    The report linked above claimed these are also undisclosed SEC probes, which presumably means Tesla believes they are not material otherwise they are obliged to disclose.  Management better be right that they are not material... 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    If I was an investor in Tesla, I would consider the SEC investigations a red flag. 

     

    But for the big funds that buy in big enough chunks to create volume, like the real investors, the reports are and should be part of their due diligence before buying.

    They must have talked to management about them and were convinced by them that they are really not that important.Smiley

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    If I was an investor in Tesla, I would consider the SEC investigations a red flag. 

     

    But for the big funds that buy in big enough chunks to create volume, like the real investors, the reports are and should be part of their due diligence before buying.

    They must have talked to management about them and were convinced by them that they are really not that important.Smiley

     

    Management cannot selectively disclose even the existence of said investigations unless they wish to violate Reg FD (a regulation for which Elon apparently has little regard).


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Not really 'selectively' if they are asked like this:

    "We saw some SEC investigations and there are files undisclosed, are those important?"

    "Nah, they are not important, just some trade secrets that we don't want to disclosed"

    "Okay! Here is 200 million."

    "Thanks!"

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    "Audi reveals new e-tron Vision Gran Turismo" (Autocar)

    Virtual race car turned into fully functioning coupe as marketing spearhead for e-tron electric car brand and Formula E involvement

    (9 April 2018)

    Audi has revealed a new four-wheel drive 805bhp electric-powered supercar to be deployed as a race taxi at selected Formula E events, hinting the low slung two-door holds clues to a zero-emission flagship being considered as a performance figurehead to sit above the company’s recently confirmed four-door e-tron GT in an extended line-up of pure electric production models due out in the coming years.

    Originally conceived as a virtual race car for the 15th anniversary of the Gran Turismo video game on Sony’s PlayStation 4, the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo has been turned into reality by Audi as part of a marketing campaign built around its new e-tron electric car sub-brand.

    The one-off prototype, constructed at Audi’s pre-production workshop in Ingolstadt, is planned to be used to provide selected customers and guests of the German car maker with high-speed passenger rides during Formula E race weekends, starting at the Rome event in Italy on April 14.

    The decision to build the electric powered supercar makes the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo the first simulated race car developed for Playstation’s Gran Turisimo to be made fully functional, according to Audi.

    It also hints at possible plans by Audi to bolster its presence in the supercar ranks with a new performance-based e-tron model that, Ingolstadt insiders suggest, could complement the R8 with pure electric drive.

    “With the Audi e-tron Vision Gran Turismo race taxi we are turning electric mobility into a tangible experience for our customers and guests as part of the Formula E races – in the middle of the world’s metropolises,” says Peter Mertens, head of Audi R&D, adding, “we are also expanding our gathering of valuable experience in extremely demanding conditions”.

    Audi has so far confirmed three battery propelled e-tron models: the e-tron quattro, the e-tron Sportback and e-tron GT.

    The e-tron quattro, a Telsa Model X-rivalling SUV, and e-tron Sportback, a high riding five-door liftback, are planned to be produced at the company’s plant in Brussels, Belgium, with the former set to go on sale during the second half of 2018.

    The more exclusive e-tron GT is set to roll out from a dedicated production line being established at Audi Sport division’s showcase Bollinger Hof factory in Neckarsulm, Germany, with the first customer deliveries planned for 2020.

    Backing up claims that the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo could one day see production are comments from senior Audi officials that it represents more than a mere concept.

    “Although the design of a virtual vehicle allows greater freedom and the creation of concepts which are hard to implement in reality, we did not want to put a purely fictitious concept on wheels," says Audi design boss, Marc Lichte.

    Lichte, who has headed the design team working on Audi’s upcoming range of all-electric e-tron models, says the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo incorporates numerous elements of a new Audi design language, including the inverted coloured keyed single-frame grille to be featured on new e-tron models.

    Drawing on technology used by the ultra-low-volume R8 e-tron as well as the three upcoming e-tron production models, the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo is powered by three electric motors - one sited up front providing drive to the front wheels and two at the rear driving the individual rear wheels - each with 200kW, or 268bhp.

    The electric motors used by the new supercar are based on the production unit set to be unveiled in the upcoming production version of the Audi e-tron quattro. Developed in-house at Audi parent company, Volkswagen, they are produced at its plant in Kassel, Germany.

    Altogether, the three electric motors provide a combined 805bhp - sufficient, according to Audi, to provide its new 1450kg coupe with a power-to-weight ratio of 555bhp per tonne.

    No official torque figure for the new Audi prototype has been revealed, though officials from Audi’s pre-production workshop have revealed to Autocar the trio of electric motors deliver more than 1000Nm, which translates to over 737 lb ft.

    With a specially developed quattro four-wheel drive system providing variable drive distribution between the front and rear axles as well as the individual rear wheels, the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo is claimed to accelerate from 0 to 62mph in 2.5sec.

    By comparison, the 1840kg R8 e-tron, which was revealed in definitive production guise at the 2015 Geneva motor show prior to being dropped from the line-up after an unspecified production run, boasted two electric motors acting on the rear wheels with a combined 455bhp and 678lb ft.

    Audi is yet to provide details to the battery used by the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo, although Autocar has been told it shares its technology with the lithium-ion unit planned to appear in the production version of the e-tron quattro due out later this year.

    Among those Audi has chosen to drive the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo on the sidelines of Formula E races is former DTM race driver Rahel Frey and Le Mans victor Dindo Capello.

    Link: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-reveals-new-e-tron-vision-gran-turismo

    Video Link: http://youtu.be/VeTcgLaJ_rI

    Smiley

    "Audi e-tron Vision Gran Turismo: 805bhp prototype driven on track" (Autocar)

    (28 April 2018)

    The new pure electric coupé you see here started life as a computer-generated design, just one of 20 or so created by Audi's in-house design team over the past two years.

    The original idea was to use the car as a purely virtual entity to boost Audi’s presence in the latest version of the Gran Turismo video game on the Sony PlayStation 4. However, Audi bosses liked the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo  so much they decided to build it as a rolling prototype to star at Formula E races as part of a marketing campaign surrounding the new e-tron electric car sub-brand.

    I first see the new coupé up close at the end of a row of garages at Audi’s Neuburg test track facility on the outskirts of Ingolstadt. Low and wide and with a generous front splitter, it looks like it means business and its carbonfibre body sports a livery that evokes the company’s 90 quattro IMSA GTO of 1989. Size-wise, it’s around A6 dimensions.

    Former DTM driver Rahel Frey will pilot the car at Formula E events, but today she has been asked to ride shotgun with me. Encouragingly, she’s smiling when she hands me a crash helmet.

    The basis for the car is a tubular frame chassis to which Audi’s motorsport division has combined various elements from its 2018 A4 DTM race car, including double wishbone suspension and electric steering and braking systems.

    Drawing on technology used by the upcoming e-tron production models, its powertrain consists of three electric motors: one sited up front providing drive to both front wheels and two at the rear, each driving a wheel. With a combined 805bhp, they provide the 1450kg coupé with a power- to-weight ratio of 555bhp per tonne. Audi hasn’t revealed an official torque figure, but it is said to deliver more than 737lb ft in total. With a quattro four- wheel-drive system providing variable drive distribution between the front and rear axles as well as the individual rear wheels, the car is claimed to accelerate from 0-62mph in 2.5sec and reach a restricted 140mph.

    Inside, the left-hand-drive Audi resembles a DTM race car. You sit well back in the cockpit in a reclined position, snugly contained within a carbonfibre seat by a six-point harness. There’s a rather idiosyncratic starting procedure to perform: a nudge of the brakes, then the press of a button placed within the drive selection controls down on the floor to the left of the driver’s seat to prime the electrics before you press the drive button. A whir of electrics indicates it is ready to go. As we head out onto Audi’s oval test track, there’s whine from the rear electric motors but nothing immediately intimidating.

    The car has a sensitive throttle and gorgeously direct steering. It’s easy to drive smoothly and, despite being a one-off, it feels remarkably well engineered. In keeping with its competition breeding, the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo feels more urgent than any other electric- powered sports car I’ve driven. This is brought into clear focus after a number of exploratory laps when I receive the all-clear from Frey and plant the throttle.

    The new Audi doesn’t so much as gather speed but pile it on all at once in a seamless and instantaneous surge. The vast torque and four-wheel-drive traction provide truly explosive acceleration. Before I have time to collect my thoughts, we’re already up on the speed limiter at 140mph. On the long back straight of the test track, I get some time to appreciate the ferocity of it all. Even more savage than its accelerationis the braking. The brakes have been borrowed from the Audi A4 DTM racing car, but with electric actuation. The sheer performance of the carbon discs and the race-grade calipers combines with the purchase of those big slicks and the massive great wing to generate incredible stopping power.

    The downforce under braking is far removed from that of any existing Audi road car and there’s no ABS to rely on, so getting the braking right from high speeds is probably the trickiest thing. You have to hit the pedal with proper force, then gradually back out as the downforce fades. There’s not much feel in the pedal itself, and its travel is quite short. At first, I’m a little hesitant to give it the full blast of left foot, fearful of a tail-led exit into the scenery, but with some urging from Frey, I feel like I at least managed to scratch the surface of its full potential.

    The Audi delivers so much confidence from the steering and outright front-end grip that you can carry terrific speed though corners. A low centre of gravity helps, as does Audi’s claim that the e-tron Vision Gran Turismo has 50:50 weight distribution. It takes a lot of provocation to unsettle either end, although it is surprisingly easy to gather it up again.

    I suspect it would take more skill than I can bring to really unlock its true potential, but if this new Audi taught me anything, it’s just how engaging a dedicated electric-powered race car can be.

    Autocar Link: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-e-tron-vision-gran-turismo-805bhp-prototype-driven-track

    Another Person's First Drive Video Link: http://youtu.be/QcIIX3IikP0

    ...what chance that Audi are already planning a road car version?  Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2019-ram-1500-pickup-is-in-its-own-production-hell/#ftag=CAD590a51e

    I am afraid just hiring people from the competition is not necessary make everything that much better...

    To me, big investors in Tesla went in with their eyes wide open that this was not going to be an easy road ahead and that capital needs and timelines were going to be sketchy. Missing a production mark by 3 months should be irrelevant to their views. The recent articles, albeit important to point out the financing needs, is just drummed up to death by the very vocal short seller community, competitors and the media who loves to talk about Tesla, good or bad, as we have examples in our own midst.

    Apple only survived because of the delirious fan base in the 80s/90s. Tesla doesn’t feel that different. $900mio in unsecured deposit? That’s unheard of and yet another reason why you cannot simply apply old school finance to Tesla... Interesting months ahead (especially from the sidelines which is the only reasonable place to be)... For example Elon could say add $1000 to the deposit and you just ahead of the queue... that could be several $100mio...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Well the difference is the other car makers would miss a target every now and then, Tesla missed them every single time.

     

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    That’s exactly my point. Investors do not expect them to reach all the deadlines so why would they sell when the do miss them?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    That’s exactly my point. Investors do not expect them to reach all the deadlines so why would they sell when the do miss them?

    Companies are always punished by investors for missing deadlines.   Recall that equity valuation is based on free cash flow over future periods.   If that cash flow map changes, equity price is adjusted accordingly.  

    Tesla has the additional problem of needing cash flow to service its burgeoning debt load, in part, made through its capital expenditures to bring the Model 3, and future products, to market.  If it can’t raise production, it will need to borrow capital, either expensive debt or dilutive equity, for solvency. Either cap raise will negatively impair current equity pricing.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    That’s exactly my point. Investors do not expect them to reach all the deadlines so why would they sell when the do miss them?

    Companies are always punished by investors for missing deadlines.

    No they don't.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    That’s exactly my point. Investors do not expect them to reach all the deadlines so why would they sell when the do miss them?

    Companies are always punished by investors for missing deadlines.

    No they don't.

    Perhaps you should notify Professor Gene Fama, father and Nobel Laureate, of the Efficient Market Hypothesis that he is wrong.  Investors consistently punish companies for missing production targets and deadlines either through selling equity, which reduces share price and market capitalization, negative analyst reports, and in the most severe cases removing senior management from office.  

    ExxonMobil, even on news of increased profits but falling short of analyst expectations on production targets, recently saw a 2% reduction in share price, as a result.  https://www.axios.com/exxon-earnings-profits-production-oil-8fe1dc99-39e1-44b6-b043-b8dfd0d42681.html  A dollar of free cash flow generated today is worth more than a dollar generated next quarter or the following, and investors will cause the share price to adjust accordingly.  

    Read the following over the weekend and thought of a poster or two.  http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/why-humans-increasingly-are-unaware-their-ignorance-and-why-its-big-problem 

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I'll email Gene and ask him why Tesla is still at $300.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    I'll email Gene and ask him why Tesla is still at $300.

    Go for it!  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX, some of us don’t need a finance lesson (well we all have a lot to learn but...).

    You are still completely missing the point because nothing of what you wrote can justify today’s Tesla share price...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    CGX, some of us don’t need a finance lesson (well we all have a lot to learn but...).

    You are still completely missing the point because nothing of what you wrote can justify today’s Tesla share price...

    Thank you for supporting my position; there is no justification for Tesla’s valuation.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I think you're the only one trying to justify it, one way or the other. SciFrog and I simply accept it for what it is. The stock market is irrational and can stay that way for a very long time, especially for growth-phase companies.


     
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