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    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    The best laptime posted by McLaren during testing at the Ring was 7 min 44 sec.
    A laptime of 7.38 - 7.40 should be possible during perfect conditions according to themselves.

    My guess would be a laptime of 1.11 on Hockenheim.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Quote:
    ummm...do you have a ring time for an SLR....yet?
    If not, then please wait until you do...ok?



    So we can't even talk about the expected performance of the SLR at the ring compared to a 400Kg lighter manual supercar?...I don't thing so. Besides, just based on the car's specs, its not even a tough call on how they will compare, right?

    Personally, it just doesn't offer anything special for that price, no supercar performance, not even the pleasure of a stick, and the luxuries I can get in other "normal" cars. So to put things into perspective, you can get the Brabus SL600S V12 (640HP) instead, and with the money saved also get a Radical SR3 Turbo for the track days and a Gemballa GTR 600 for the weekends
    But thats just my personal opinion, there is no right or wrong, some people may think its perfect for them, and thats just as respectable.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Quote:
    ummm...do you have a ring time for an SLR....yet?
    If not, then please wait until you do...ok?



    So we can't even talk about the expected performance of the SLR at the ring compared to a 400Kg lighter manual supercar?...I don't thing so. Besides, just based on the car's specs, its not even a tough call on how they will compare, right?

    Personally, it just doesn't offer anything special for that price, no supercar performance, not even the pleasure of a stick, and the luxuries I can get in other "normal" cars. So to put things into perspective, you can get the Brabus SL600S V12 (640HP) instead, and with the money saved also get a Radical SR3 Turbo for the track days and a Gemballa GTR 600 for the weekends
    But thats just my personal opinion, there is no right or wrong, some people may think its perfect for them, and thats just as respectable.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    I really can't believe you think the SLR is slow and not comparable to even a CGT. The embarassing thing is, even though the SLR is 400kg heavier, its just as fast, if not faster...hahahah, smoke that in your pipe eh?

    And as for transmission, the SLR has a manual mode, which is just as quick and effective as the Enzo's paddleshift, ask CF, he can concur and confirm. So you dis the SLR because its an auto, yet you can praise the Enzo? Double standards or what? The SLR jsut happens to have full auto usaility and thanks to AMG, Enzo paddleshift when you want, best of both worlds.

    If the SLR doesn't offer anything special for that price, are you calling the people who put down 1000 orders for the first two years..idiots? If SLR isn't special enough, then neither is the CGT. Plain and simple.

    BTW, the Enzo can't beat the mac F1, even with more HP, why? because N/A engines can't produce prodigious torque low down, so if the SLR had an Enzo V12 it would be slower than it is. But isn't this amazing, the SLR is heavier than teh CGt and Enzo by about 400kgs, yes 400kgs, and yet it wll keep up with them? Even with an auto tranny? Its points like this that make the Italian supercars pointless and pathetic...


    All in all, I can't belive I'm arguing on the internet trying to defend a car I will most probably never get to drive and buy, boy do I feel retarded.

    I think its jealousy more than anyhing else...there is STILL no valid and justified argument against the SLR.

    I think CF will concur the SLR is a great car, but the CGT is for him, not because its faster and the SLR isn't special enough for the price, but because he prefers the CGT. And thats fine, but syaing, I'd rather get a Brabus and crappy lawnmowerenginedcardboardboxes like the radical is just stupid, and an insult to supercars everywhere..

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    I really can't believe you think the SLR is slow and not comparable to even a CGT. The embarassing thing is, even though the SLR is 400kg heavier, its just as fast, if not faster...hahahah, smoke that in your pipe eh?

    And as for transmission, the SLR has a manual mode, which is just as quick and effective as the Enzo's paddleshift, ask CF, he can concur and confirm. So you dis the SLR because its an auto, yet you can praise the Enzo? Double standards or what? The SLR jsut happens to have full auto usaility and thanks to AMG, Enzo paddleshift when you want, best of both worlds.

    If the SLR doesn't offer anything special for that price, are you calling the people who put down 1000 orders for the first two years..idiots? If SLR isn't special enough, then neither is the CGT. Plain and simple.

    BTW, the Enzo can't beat the mac F1, even with more HP, why? because N/A engines can't produce prodigious torque low down, so if the SLR had an Enzo V12 it would be slower than it is. But isn't this amazing, the SLR is heavier than teh CGt and Enzo by about 400kgs, yes 400kgs, and yet it wll keep up with them? Even with an auto tranny? Its points like this that make the Italian supercars pointless and pathetic...


    All in all, I can't belive I'm arguing on the internet trying to defend a car I will most probably never get to drive and buy, boy do I feel retarded.

    I think its jealousy more than anyhing else...there is STILL no valid and justified argument against the SLR.

    I think CF will concur the SLR is a great car, but the CGT is for him, not because its faster and the SLR isn't special enough for the price, but because he prefers the CGT. And thats fine, but syaing, I'd rather get a Brabus and crappy lawnmowerenginedcardboardboxes like the radical is just stupid, and an insult to supercars everywhere..

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bidal, I think you are taking this too personally and to a point I'd rather not go, so forgive me but I'm not wasting my time in senseless discussions over the net. I hope you can respect that.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bidal, I think you are taking this too personally and to a point I'd rather not go, so forgive me but I'm not wasting my time in senseless discussions over the net. I hope you can respect that.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal - The MacLaren F1 has no turbo nor supercharger either - it's the fastest of the bunch because it's light and has a huge V-12...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal - The MacLaren F1 has no turbo nor supercharger either - it's the fastest of the bunch because it's light and has a huge V-12...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    No one will ever be able to beat the Mac F1, nowadays regulations insist airbgs and all are put onto cars and other stuff which will add 200kg to any car, so forget any car beating the Mac F1, in all departments.

    And as for this SLR argument, I'm not taking this personally, all I'm doing s trying to make you understand that the SLR is a supercar in every sense of the word, and if you can't respect that, then that is saying a Maybach can't compete with Bentley and RR.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    No one will ever be able to beat the Mac F1, nowadays regulations insist airbgs and all are put onto cars and other stuff which will add 200kg to any car, so forget any car beating the Mac F1, in all departments.

    And as for this SLR argument, I'm not taking this personally, all I'm doing s trying to make you understand that the SLR is a supercar in every sense of the word, and if you can't respect that, then that is saying a Maybach can't compete with Bentley and RR.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    The SLR is the No.1 "Supercar" GT.
    It is however not a Supercar in the same term as the Enzo or the Carrera GT.

    It doesn't have the Supercar look,trust me.
    Neither the agility or the handling of the Enzo or the Carrera GT.
    Bilal,it's all about driver involvement in a sportscar and the SLR doesn't have it.
    It would be the perfect car for a long fast Autobahn drive
    but so is an SL55 or E55.
    Although the steering is very sensitive on the SLR it can't hide the fact that it is a very heavy car.
    The brake pedal feel is the worst I have ever experienced.
    The automatic transmission is the best auto I have driven and it is perfect for the SLR since it's a GT supercar,but it would be completely out of place in a Carrera GT or any other sportscar.

    The Carrera GT or the Enzo would destroy an McLaren F1 on any track.

    Sure it has top speed and acceleration but when it comes to brakes,aerodynamics and handling its outclassed in every department.

    Bilal have you seen the SLR or the Carrera GT?

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    The SLR is the No.1 "Supercar" GT.
    It is however not a Supercar in the same term as the Enzo or the Carrera GT.

    It doesn't have the Supercar look,trust me.
    Neither the agility or the handling of the Enzo or the Carrera GT.
    Bilal,it's all about driver involvement in a sportscar and the SLR doesn't have it.
    It would be the perfect car for a long fast Autobahn drive
    but so is an SL55 or E55.
    Although the steering is very sensitive on the SLR it can't hide the fact that it is a very heavy car.
    The brake pedal feel is the worst I have ever experienced.
    The automatic transmission is the best auto I have driven and it is perfect for the SLR since it's a GT supercar,but it would be completely out of place in a Carrera GT or any other sportscar.

    The Carrera GT or the Enzo would destroy an McLaren F1 on any track.

    Sure it has top speed and acceleration but when it comes to brakes,aerodynamics and handling its outclassed in every department.

    Bilal have you seen the SLR or the Carrera GT?

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Apparently, yes.

    What about AMG Speedshift R, is it comparable to Ferrari F1?

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Apparently, yes.

    What about AMG Speedshift R, is it comparable to Ferrari F1?

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    No it's not.
    The F1 in the Ferrari is faster.
    But,the AMG Speedshift R is really fast considering it's an auto transmission.



    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    No it's not.
    The F1 in the Ferrari is faster.
    But,the AMG Speedshift R is really fast considering it's an auto transmission.



    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal,
    I know that you are very enthuisiastic about Mercedes and perhaps their biggest advocat anywhere, but there is no point in getting emotional in these discussions and stating erroneous facts to boot. Discussions based on personal experience and/or fact are really what separate Rennteam from MBWorld. Do understand the basic differences between a torque convertor and a clutch? Forgive me, but it is not apparent to me.

    Kind regards,
    Justin

    PS: We appreciate your enthuisiasm as always.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal,
    I know that you are very enthuisiastic about Mercedes and perhaps their biggest advocat anywhere, but there is no point in getting emotional in these discussions and stating erroneous facts to boot. Discussions based on personal experience and/or fact are really what separate Rennteam from MBWorld. Do understand the basic differences between a torque convertor and a clutch? Forgive me, but it is not apparent to me.

    Kind regards,
    Justin

    PS: We appreciate your enthuisiasm as always.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    The Speedshift is a hydrolic torque converter automatic transmission with manual selection of gears. The Ferrari's F1 is a maganeti-marelli based sequential (as is Alfa Romeo's Selespeed, Aston Martin and Maseratti). They are both automatic transmissions but with quite different characteristics.

    - In torque converter automatics (Speedshift, Tiptronic, Steptronic, E-shift, Autostick, etc) the gears are selected automatically or can be "selected" manually (but it still not a sequential) and have the advantage of being smooth and quiet, but on the other hand are heavier than manual gearboxes, are larger, rob some torque when shifting and until lately came only with 5 gears (BMW is the first one to come out with a 6-speed torque and on the 7-series). Thats why is decreases performance in sportcars and is not used in racing or most high-perfromance oriented sportcars. The main difference between Speedshift (AMG version's) and the regular auto from Merc is predominately the software that controls it, in which the Speedshift
    is more performance vs confort oriented and hence the shitfs are faster and at higher RMS, etc. So some torque converter automatics can be better than others in terms of sportiness (not forgetting that there are now 6-speed torque converter automatics which are even better than the 5-speed of course) but never as good as a sequential or manual.

    - True sequential transmissions (Ferrari's F1, DSG, SMG-II, Selespeed, etc) are basically a 6-speed manual gearbox with an electronic clucth and which mechanically shifts the gears either automatically or manually selected. It is not as smooth as the torque converter but it weighs no more than a manual, it is faster shifting than the torque converters, use 6 gears and with no power loss. So there is virtually no performance loss compared to a manual (the double-clutch sequential like the DSG is actually faster than a manual since there is almost no interuption of power delivery during its lightning shifts - hopefully we will see it in the 997). Therefore its the automatic of choice in race cars such as F1, WRC, etc. and performance oriented cars.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    The Speedshift is a hydrolic torque converter automatic transmission with manual selection of gears. The Ferrari's F1 is a maganeti-marelli based sequential (as is Alfa Romeo's Selespeed, Aston Martin and Maseratti). They are both automatic transmissions but with quite different characteristics.

    - In torque converter automatics (Speedshift, Tiptronic, Steptronic, E-shift, Autostick, etc) the gears are selected automatically or can be "selected" manually (but it still not a sequential) and have the advantage of being smooth and quiet, but on the other hand are heavier than manual gearboxes, are larger, rob some torque when shifting and until lately came only with 5 gears (BMW is the first one to come out with a 6-speed torque and on the 7-series). Thats why is decreases performance in sportcars and is not used in racing or most high-perfromance oriented sportcars. The main difference between Speedshift (AMG version's) and the regular auto from Merc is predominately the software that controls it, in which the Speedshift
    is more performance vs confort oriented and hence the shitfs are faster and at higher RMS, etc. So some torque converter automatics can be better than others in terms of sportiness (not forgetting that there are now 6-speed torque converter automatics which are even better than the 5-speed of course) but never as good as a sequential or manual.

    - True sequential transmissions (Ferrari's F1, DSG, SMG-II, Selespeed, etc) are basically a 6-speed manual gearbox with an electronic clucth and which mechanically shifts the gears either automatically or manually selected. It is not as smooth as the torque converter but it weighs no more than a manual, it is faster shifting than the torque converters, use 6 gears and with no power loss. So there is virtually no performance loss compared to a manual (the double-clutch sequential like the DSG is actually faster than a manual since there is almost no interuption of power delivery during its lightning shifts - hopefully we will see it in the 997). Therefore its the automatic of choice in race cars such as F1, WRC, etc. and performance oriented cars.

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    I have no reply.

    I mena I try and say good things about thsi car to make it a valid argument for a supercar contender, but there is no point. To everyone, a supercar will always be something that can lap the ring in 2 seconds, have a manual transmission, look supposedly out of this world ("carrera GT"), and be as hard to drive as it is to have s*ex with a 1 inch d*ick and a fat girlfriend.

    If that is what defines a supercar then the SLR can't be like that. What it is is a 575M with the performance of a CGT but it just can't be in one permanent category. I mean for an automatic car weighing 1700kgs+ having everything one could wish for, and still handle considering, but it just can't compete. If this is true then what a waste of a car it is. You could drive it to the office in full autol mode, wait in traffic for an hour, what with its auto braking and brake holding, and then stop by the track and be in Schumacher mode, and still not break down, and start in the morning ready for another day. I mean isn't this combining the best of both worlds? Wouldn't everyone love to have a blonde with a degree in astrophysics?

    What is wrong with being "good" in both fields? What is this obsession that one must have an S600 AND a Group C Le Mans racer? Surely, it would be more convenient if could just marriage the cars philosophies together? Wouldn't that be an ultimately ideal solution?


    I can see you're just sitting there and reading this and thinking this guy is out of his mind, he hasn't even driven the car so how could he possibly know, and you're absolutely right, (CF is the one most likely to fall under this category).

    What can I say? Different cars for different people. I guess management at mercedes is idiotic, I mean what were they thinking by making the A-class, what were they thinking by making the maybach to compete with RR, what were they thinking to make an SL55 to compete with the 360M and 911T,( SL55 of which I saw 5 in one day, in Manchester!, yes, in Manchester!)

    And finally what were they thinking in making car as refined as an SL, but which goes and handles (to some extent) like an Enzo and CGT? What were they thinking...




    PS, thanks Justin for the kind words....

    I also do know the difference between an auto, a manual and an SMG, and even DSG. I still think its remarkable you can change that fast with an auto and not take your foot off the gas and have jerky acceleration like in the others apart from DSG, but thanks for the patronising.

    And by seeing on film how quick the Speedshift is, I have to say, im pretty much satisfied, is there any chance that AMG can change the auto software to perform race shifts on an SL55/65?

    And I feel that it is not right to come to this section of the forums and criticize a car. Maybe I should start bashing the CGT in the Porsche forums...but I won't since I hugely respect the CGT for what it is, it may not be my choice, but it is an awesome car, you all pretty much know which car I like anyways...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    I have no reply.

    I mena I try and say good things about thsi car to make it a valid argument for a supercar contender, but there is no point. To everyone, a supercar will always be something that can lap the ring in 2 seconds, have a manual transmission, look supposedly out of this world ("carrera GT"), and be as hard to drive as it is to have s*ex with a 1 inch d*ick and a fat girlfriend.

    If that is what defines a supercar then the SLR can't be like that. What it is is a 575M with the performance of a CGT but it just can't be in one permanent category. I mean for an automatic car weighing 1700kgs+ having everything one could wish for, and still handle considering, but it just can't compete. If this is true then what a waste of a car it is. You could drive it to the office in full autol mode, wait in traffic for an hour, what with its auto braking and brake holding, and then stop by the track and be in Schumacher mode, and still not break down, and start in the morning ready for another day. I mean isn't this combining the best of both worlds? Wouldn't everyone love to have a blonde with a degree in astrophysics?

    What is wrong with being "good" in both fields? What is this obsession that one must have an S600 AND a Group C Le Mans racer? Surely, it would be more convenient if could just marriage the cars philosophies together? Wouldn't that be an ultimately ideal solution?


    I can see you're just sitting there and reading this and thinking this guy is out of his mind, he hasn't even driven the car so how could he possibly know, and you're absolutely right, (CF is the one most likely to fall under this category).

    What can I say? Different cars for different people. I guess management at mercedes is idiotic, I mean what were they thinking by making the A-class, what were they thinking by making the maybach to compete with RR, what were they thinking to make an SL55 to compete with the 360M and 911T,( SL55 of which I saw 5 in one day, in Manchester!, yes, in Manchester!)

    And finally what were they thinking in making car as refined as an SL, but which goes and handles (to some extent) like an Enzo and CGT? What were they thinking...




    PS, thanks Justin for the kind words....

    I also do know the difference between an auto, a manual and an SMG, and even DSG. I still think its remarkable you can change that fast with an auto and not take your foot off the gas and have jerky acceleration like in the others apart from DSG, but thanks for the patronising.

    And by seeing on film how quick the Speedshift is, I have to say, im pretty much satisfied, is there any chance that AMG can change the auto software to perform race shifts on an SL55/65?

    And I feel that it is not right to come to this section of the forums and criticize a car. Maybe I should start bashing the CGT in the Porsche forums...but I won't since I hugely respect the CGT for what it is, it may not be my choice, but it is an awesome car, you all pretty much know which car I like anyways...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal, its just that everybodies definition of supercar may not be the same, for some, the SLR may be a superclass along with the CGT and Enzo. For others the only supercar Mercedes built is the CLK-GTR back in '98 and the SLR does not meet the criteria of a supercar. So nobody is right or wrong when they say it is a supercar or not.
    The other issue some people like myself have with the SLR is that you can't have the best of both worlds, a confortable GT-tourer and a extreme performing sportcar. They are mutually confictive and not compatible in many ways, for example, what makes it have more trunk space, shift smoother, more confortable, etc also makes it heavier, handle worse, slower, etc than it would be otherwise. For some people that is the perfect combination of performance vs confort being good "enough" in both fields, for others it makes it an underperforming supercar or an unconfortable & unpractical luxury cruiser and would rather get the true all out supercar for example.

    So what I'm trying to say, as you said yourself, is "Different cars for different people" and I didn't mean to seem like I was attaking or bashing it, and out of the respect for the other members of the forum wouldn't try to provoke you criticising the SLR, just sharing my opinion while respecting the others but you have to be more open to criticism Bilal or people like myself may shy away form doing so with you and I'm sure thats not you want. So no harm intended

    BTW, the SL55 does not compete with the 911T or F360M... just kiding, I'm not going to go there!

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal, its just that everybodies definition of supercar may not be the same, for some, the SLR may be a superclass along with the CGT and Enzo. For others the only supercar Mercedes built is the CLK-GTR back in '98 and the SLR does not meet the criteria of a supercar. So nobody is right or wrong when they say it is a supercar or not.
    The other issue some people like myself have with the SLR is that you can't have the best of both worlds, a confortable GT-tourer and a extreme performing sportcar. They are mutually confictive and not compatible in many ways, for example, what makes it have more trunk space, shift smoother, more confortable, etc also makes it heavier, handle worse, slower, etc than it would be otherwise. For some people that is the perfect combination of performance vs confort being good "enough" in both fields, for others it makes it an underperforming supercar or an unconfortable & unpractical luxury cruiser and would rather get the true all out supercar for example.

    So what I'm trying to say, as you said yourself, is "Different cars for different people" and I didn't mean to seem like I was attaking or bashing it, and out of the respect for the other members of the forum wouldn't try to provoke you criticising the SLR, just sharing my opinion while respecting the others but you have to be more open to criticism Bilal or people like myself may shy away form doing so with you and I'm sure thats not you want. So no harm intended

    BTW, the SL55 does not compete with the 911T or F360M... just kiding, I'm not going to go there!

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal,I certainly don't think you are out of your mind just because you have an opinion.


    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Bilal,I certainly don't think you are out of your mind just because you have an opinion.


    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    We're cool guys.

    Carlos, about the SL55....shall we start here, or shall I start a new thread...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    We're cool guys.

    Carlos, about the SL55....shall we start here, or shall I start a new thread...

    Re: AUTOCAR SLR REVIEW.....not good.

    Quote:
    Carlos, about the SL55....shall we start here, or shall I start a new thread...




     
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