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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Whoopsy:

    I am with Suzy :)

    Porsche's success lies in the understated look. It gives privacy to the owner/driver. Hell even the outrageous 918 is more understated than the P1 or the LaFerrari. Porsche was never about shouting 'Look at me!!' It's about giving driving pleasure to the driver first, they design a car for the driver to drive, not for others to look at from the outside.

    Between my 12C and the Turbo S, I drives the Turbo S more. Not because the 12C is inferior to drive, but because I can go about my business without attracting unwanted attention. When I drives the 12C, I plan ahead so that  attention from the car won't be a problem. 

     

    interesting that owners of high end sports cars live in socially challenging neighborhoods. this is definitely news to me.Smiley 7


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    interesting that owners of high end sports cars live in socially challenging neighborhoods. this is definitely news to me.Smiley 7

    That is not what people are saying, most Porsche's can be driven round "under the radar" where most people who see them know they are a sports car but can't differentiate so much between a bog standard C2 and a GT2. 

    A lot of Porsche owners are business people who have staff and customers where it would simply be ridiculous to flash a Ferrari, Lambo etc in their faces whereas a Porsche can pretty much go relatively un-noticed or at least if one has driven the Porsche brand for 25 years people accept that you are a Porsche enthusiast and that becomes the norm. 

    Some of us (well me at least) would feel like a kn*b driving a Ferrari/Lambo as they are just too "look at me" posy, I owned a CGT for a while and I felt ridiculous if I had to drive through a town where everyone would stare and even take photos, way too much attention, just too flash. Others enjoy this show and it makes up for other aspects of their lives/personalities/shortcomings (maybe Smiley) but I know most of the exotica I see on local roads (which is quite a lot where I live) is driven by people who are not there for the subtle driving aspects of a Ferrari, they are there for the look and image, this is surely why these exotica are getting so easy and civilsed to drive, the manufacturers know their market. 


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:
    Whoopsy:

    I am with Suzy :)

    Porsche's success lies in the understated look. It gives privacy to the owner/driver. Hell even the outrageous 918 is more understated than the P1 or the LaFerrari. Porsche was never about shouting 'Look at me!!' It's about giving driving pleasure to the driver first, they design a car for the driver to drive, not for others to look at from the outside.

    Between my 12C and the Turbo S, I drives the Turbo S more. Not because the 12C is inferior to drive, but because I can go about my business without attracting unwanted attention. When I drives the 12C, I plan ahead so that  attention from the car won't be a problem. 

     

    interesting that owners of high end sports cars live in socially challenging neighborhoods. this is definitely news to me.Smiley 7


    I live in a place of the world where all kinds of exotic machinery is ubiquitous and thus no neighbor would judge your car for being excessively flashy. Moreover, in my work what car I drive is irrelevant. I went to see clients all over Europe in my 599 without perception issues. Yet, I prefer driving around in a 911.

    Why? Because....

    I like the subtlety of the car.

    I like the fact that I can park a 911 on the street almost anywhere in Europe without attracting a crowd.

    I like that the car is small enough to fit it most garages.

    I like the cocooning effect of the 991's interior and prefer it to any current Ferrari interior.

    I like that it has 4 seats.

    I like that with 4WD it can be driven in winter across Europe without worries.

    I like that it has electronics (e.g. sat nav etc.) that work.

    I like that there's a larger dealer network just in case anything happens on a journey far from home.

    I love the iconic 911 shape.

    Of course, I can see the appeal of a Ferrari. I had a 599 for 4 years and actually drove it; close to 80,000km (more than most owners will do in a lifetime). I liked the 599.

    I was close to ordering an F12 until I realized I missed the 911 package for all it entails. I am sure that an F12 (or a 458) might be a more interesting "toy" in some respects. I am, however, sure that a 911 Turbo is a better car.

    Different people want different things from their cars. I like the "completeness" of the Turbo's package. It is the Swiss Knife of sportscars. I also happen to love its classic looks.

    Variety is what makes the world interesting and there many other cars for those that don't see the appeal of the Turbo.

    All I know is that FOR ME, the 911 Turbo is the best car in the world.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Rossi:
    Wonderbar:

    I know many folks like the GT2 (and its RS version), but I think it is extremely hard to drive fast and safely.  I would rather see Porsche develop an all wheel drive RS--a GT4RS, or even a Turbo RS.  


    I would buy a Turbo RS in a heartbeat.

    Same here but I guess this is something Porsche still hasn't understood or we are, like I heard very often from officials, a different type of customer and unfortunately the different type which isn't in a majority. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Well said, Flat6911.

    BTW, I love Monaco and have attended the tennis Masters event for the past five years.  Wonderful atmosphere all around.  An adult Disneyworld...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:

    Some of us (well me at least) would feel like a kn*b driving a Ferrari/Lambo as they are just too "look at me" posy, I owned a CGT for a while and I felt ridiculous if I had to drive through a town where everyone would stare and even take photos, way too much attention, just too flash. Others enjoy this show and it makes up

    Now imagine that almost everyone from these people knows who you or your kids are. Smiley

    for other aspects of their lives/personalities/shortcomings (maybe Smiley) but I know most of the exotica I see on local roads (which is quite a lot where I live) is driven by people who are not there for the subtle driving aspects of a Ferrari, they are there for the look and image, this is surely why these exotica are getting so easy and civilsed to drive, the manufacturers know their market. 

    Very well said. I actually admire these people because they don't seem to care or on the contrary, they want to make a statement and couldn't worry less about negative feedback but I am different, thus driving a different car.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    Well said, Flat6911.

    BTW, I love Monaco and have attended the tennis Masters event for the past five years.  Wonderful atmosphere all around.  An adult Disneyworld...

    I love Monaco too but my wife isn't much of a fan.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    TB993tt:

    Some of us (well me at least) would feel like a kn*b driving a Ferrari/Lambo as they are just too "look at me" posy, I owned a CGT for a while and I felt ridiculous if I had to drive through a town where everyone would stare and even take photos, way too much attention, just too flash. Others enjoy this show and it makes up

    Now imagine that almost everyone from these people knows who you or your kids are. Smiley

    for other aspects of their lives/personalities/shortcomings (maybe Smiley) but I know most of the exotica I see on local roads (which is quite a lot where I live) is driven by people who are not there for the subtle driving aspects of a Ferrari, they are there for the look and image, this is surely why these exotica are getting so easy and civilsed to drive, the manufacturers know their market.

    Very well said. I actually admire these people because they don't seem to care or on the contrary, they want to make a statement and couldn't worry less about negative feedback but I am different, thus driving a different car.

    you are absolutely right. i am too old for caring what others think. if i spend 250 +  euros for a car, then i definitely choose what i like and not what others want me to drive. after all i pay my taxes correctly and made my money in the honest way. 

    it is typically the petite bourgeoisie one has to worry about most and i manage to stay away from them rather well.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Drag Race : 911 Turbo S VS McLaren 12C VS Nissan GT-R 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agq4je0XICA


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    nice video ... only if the TTS has 600 HP ...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    We will see that on facelift model, but than competition will be even meaner yes


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    not the best weather and road surface for rwd cars.

    In the end the only downside on the 12C is the long 6 and 7th gear which makes the acceleration slow after 270km/h.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Milanno:

    We will see that on facelift model, but than competition will be even meaner yes

    That exactly was my point when I discussed the power figure.

    The problem is that the 991 Turbo S is around 195k EUR "naked". The only car in this price range is actually the F458. The 991 Turbo S is indeed faster but what about next year?

    Porsche made a logical mistake here in my opinion and the problems will start with the facelift/next generation of the 458, the Cabrera and the R8. I understand the fact that they don't really want to compete with the 12C since it is in a different price range but still, I think they are making a mistake, no matter how good the 991 Turbo S has become in the chassis department.

    I would still buy the 991 Turbo S though but why not make customers 100% happy and not just 90%? Food for thought.

    You know what Porsche could do? After six months or so, they could offer some sort of optimization for the 991 Turbo S, similar to what McLaren did with the 12C power upgrade. They wouldn't need to offer more power but they could offer a higher boost pressure at certain speed/rev figures, improving overall performance for example in the 150 to 250 kph speed range. Just saying. This would be VERY customer friendly and all Turbo S lovers around the world would LOVE Porsche for doing that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    You know what Porsche could do? After six months or so, they could offer some sort of optimization for the 991 Turbo S, similar to what McLaren did with the 12C power upgrade. They wouldn't need to offer more power but they could offer a higher boost pressure at certain speed/rev figures, improving overall performance for example in the 150 to 250 kph speed range. Just saying. This would be VERY customer friendly and all Turbo S lovers around the world would LOVE Porsche for doing that.--

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    RC - I know you have said that aftermarket tuning is no longer easy or advisable with the variable vane turbos.  Is this a matter of inexperience on the part of the tuners or just additional complexity? Is DFI and the higher static compression to blame as well?

    In the old days, one could add 50% more HP/TQ to the stock Mezger turbo motor while retaining most of the reliability and drivability.  Is that possibility totally lost now?

    My EVO IX has >50% power and torque over stock levels while retaining stock turbocharger and other hardware (much of this due to being able to easily switch between gasoline and 85% Ethanol fuels).   Do you see more aftermarket tuning possible in the future, once the software can be more easily understood and manipulated?

    I know +50% is extreme with current power levels, but 10-20% should be possible, which is still LOTS of power.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    interesting that owners of high end sports cars live in socially challenging neighborhoods. this is definitely news to me.Smiley 7


    There is this one diner that I had frequented for over 20 years, been eating there since before I made my money. It's in a run down part of town, so it's quite 'dangerous' to show up in a 12C. But since a 911 is not really consider a exotic anymore by people, and most people treat even a Turbo S as just another Porsche 911, I can safely park the Turbo S there without trouble. 

    Also, while the police are tuned to notice 911, it still attract quite a bit less attention than the 12C so I have a little bit extra margin on speed before someone pull me over.



    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    You know what Porsche could do? After six months or so, they could offer some sort of optimization for the 991 Turbo S, similar to what McLaren did with the 12C power upgrade. They wouldn't need to offer more power but they could offer a higher boost pressure at certain speed/rev figures, improving overall performance for example in the 150 to 250 kph speed range. Just saying. This would be VERY customer friendly and all Turbo S lovers around the world would LOVE Porsche for doing that.

    That action could be indirect confession from Porsche that TTS is under-powered, so forget about that Smiley You said one interesting sentence few pages ago - "I am not marketing expert". Well, me neither, so we dont know what Porsche plans are Smiley 991 TTS holds pretty well with current competition, while making huge profit for Porsche and that is wet dream for every manufacturer. From now on Porsche is looking at upcoming models and their performance figures. Unexpectedly powerful competition could maake Porsche to bring huge improvements on TTS (power & weight loss) and to cut some of current insane profit in favor of performance. 


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Rossi:
    Wonderbar:

    I know many folks like the GT2 (and its RS version), but I think it is extremely hard to drive fast and safely.  I would rather see Porsche develop an all wheel drive RS--a GT4RS, or even a Turbo RS.  


    I would buy a Turbo RS in a heartbeat.

    Same here but I guess this is something Porsche still hasn't understood or we are, like I heard very often from officials, a different type of customer and unfortunately the different type which isn't in a majority. Smiley

     


    I really don't mind being part of the minority, now all that we need is the right offer for this minority from Porsche. Smiley

    The could do a limited model, since those few people of the minority would not need a large edition anyway. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    hunterone:

    not the best weather and road surface for rwd cars.

    In the end the only downside on the 12C is the long 6 and 7th gear which makes the acceleration slow after 270km/h.

    Time spent above 270km/h is almost 0. I don't think I've only a handful of times ever drive than fast.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    noone1:
    hunterone:

    not the best weather and road surface for rwd cars.

    In the end the only downside on the 12C is the long 6 and 7th gear which makes the acceleration slow after 270km/h.

    Time spent above 270km/h is almost 0. I don't think I've only a handful of times ever drive than fast.

    Exactly! Smiley 

    That's why I never get these discussions about topspseed and acceleration above 250km/h. It's like discussing the color of your SIM-card... Pointless.

    Maybe it's a typical male thing. A dick measuring contest.  Smiley Smiley


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL <-- long 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    FlatSix911:
    andyFE:
    Whoopsy:

    I am with Suzy :)

    Porsche's success lies in the understated look. It gives privacy to the owner/driver. Hell even the outrageous 918 is more understated than the P1 or the LaFerrari. Porsche was never about shouting 'Look at me!!' It's about giving driving pleasure to the driver first, they design a car for the driver to drive, not for others to look at from the outside.

    Between my 12C and the Turbo S, I drives the Turbo S more. Not because the 12C is inferior to drive, but because I can go about my business without attracting unwanted attention. When I drives the 12C, I plan ahead so that  attention from the car won't be a problem. 

     

    interesting that owners of high end sports cars live in socially challenging neighborhoods. this is definitely news to me.Smiley 7


    I live in a place of the world where all kinds of exotic machinery is ubiquitous and thus no neighbor would judge your car for being excessively flashy. Moreover, in my work what car I drive is irrelevant. I went to see clients all over Europe in my 599 without perception issues. Yet, I prefer driving around in a 911.

    Why? Because....

    I like the subtlety of the car.

    I like the fact that I can park a 911 on the street almost anywhere in Europe without attracting a crowd.

    I like that the car is small enough to fit it most garages.

    I like the cocooning effect of the 991's interior and prefer it to any current Ferrari interior.

    I like that it has 4 seats.

    I like that with 4WD it can be driven in winter across Europe without worries.

    I like that it has electronics (e.g. sat nav etc.) that work.

    I like that there's a larger dealer network just in case anything happens on a journey far from home.

    I love the iconic 911 shape.

    Of course, I can see the appeal of a Ferrari. I had a 599 for 4 years and actually drove it; close to 80,000km (more than most owners will do in a lifetime). I liked the 599.

    I was close to ordering an F12 until I realized I missed the 911 package for all it entails. I am sure that an F12 (or a 458) might be a more interesting "toy" in some respects. I am, however, sure that a 911 Turbo is a better car.

    Different people want different things from their cars. I like the "completeness" of the Turbo's package. It is the Swiss Knife of sportscars. I also happen to love its classic looks.

    Variety is what makes the world interesting and there many other cars for those that don't see the appeal of the Turbo.

    All I know is that FOR ME, the 911 Turbo is the best car in the world.

     

    Amen to that! Everything he said can be applied to me too. I had a 430 Scuderia instead of the 599 but that is the only difference. I am back to a 991 C4S because the Turbo makes no sense where I live and I am happy!

     


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:
    FlatSix911:
    andyFE:
    Whoopsy:

    I am with Suzy :)

    Porsche's success lies in the understated look. It gives privacy to the owner/driver. Hell even the outrageous 918 is more understated than the P1 or the LaFerrari. Porsche was never about shouting 'Look at me!!' It's about giving driving pleasure to the driver first, they design a car for the driver to drive, not for others to look at from the outside.

    Between my 12C and the Turbo S, I drives the Turbo S more. Not because the 12C is inferior to drive, but because I can go about my business without attracting unwanted attention. When I drives the 12C, I plan ahead so that  attention from the car won't be a problem. 

     

    interesting that owners of high end sports cars live in socially challenging neighborhoods. this is definitely news to me.Smiley 7


    I live in a place of the world where all kinds of exotic machinery is ubiquitous and thus no neighbor would judge your car for being excessively flashy. Moreover, in my work what car I drive is irrelevant. I went to see clients all over Europe in my 599 without perception issues. Yet, I prefer driving around in a 911.

    Why? Because....

    I like the subtlety of the car.

    I like the fact that I can park a 911 on the street almost anywhere in Europe without attracting a crowd.

    I like that the car is small enough to fit it most garages.

    I like the cocooning effect of the 991's interior and prefer it to any current Ferrari interior.

    I like that it has 4 seats.

    I like that with 4WD it can be driven in winter across Europe without worries.

    I like that it has electronics (e.g. sat nav etc.) that work.

    I like that there's a larger dealer network just in case anything happens on a journey far from home.

    I love the iconic 911 shape.

    Of course, I can see the appeal of a Ferrari. I had a 599 for 4 years and actually drove it; close to 80,000km (more than most owners will do in a lifetime). I liked the 599.

    I was close to ordering an F12 until I realized I missed the 911 package for all it entails. I am sure that an F12 (or a 458) might be a more interesting "toy" in some respects. I am, however, sure that a 911 Turbo is a better car.

    Different people want different things from their cars. I like the "completeness" of the Turbo's package. It is the Swiss Knife of sportscars. I also happen to love its classic looks.

    Variety is what makes the world interesting and there many other cars for those that don't see the appeal of the Turbo.

    All I know is that FOR ME, the 911 Turbo is the best car in the world.

     

    Amen to that! Everything he said can be applied to me too. I had a 430 Scuderia instead of the 599 but that is the only difference. I am back to a 991 C4S because the Turbo makes no sense where I live and I am happy!

     

    the 599 and the 430 were previous gen ferraris. they have very little in common with the F12 and the 458. reliability has improved (certainly to porsche levels as far as i hear) and daily drivability has also improved a lot. the points where the turbo S beats the new gen ferraris in terms of daily drivability is the 4WD and the -let us say- its somewhat challenged exterior design. but no one doubts that RWD car can get through the winter with rain and some snow, i believe. all those cars become snowplows when more the 3-4 inches of snow come down fast.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:
    n

    Time spent above 270km/h is almost 0. I don't think I've only a handful of times ever drive than fast.

    Exactly! Smiley

    That's why I never get these discussions about topspseed and acceleration above 250km/h. It's like discussing the color of your SIM-card... Pointless.

    Maybe it's a typical male thing. A dick measuring contest.  Smiley Smiley

    Today I hit 240 kph (limit with my winter tires) at least 100 times. I'm not kidding ("ding ding, ding ding"...I set two limits in the computer system, so I get a warning when I pass 235 kph and then 240 kph). So try to guess how often I get to drive 270 kph when I have my summer tires. Smiley

    Well, those who have a long and thick one, are in a minority, I agree but they exist. Smiley Smiley

    Smiley

    As to winter driving capabilities: Even the 2WD 911 is a pretty good winter car due to the rear engine design. There are barely traction issues. Yes, the ground clearance actually limits the winter driving capabilities but most Ferrari and Lamborghini drivers, with very few exceptions, leave their cars at home in winter time. Whoever was in those very exclusive winter/skiing resorts in Europe knows how many 911 are seen there in winter time. How many Ferrari or Lamborghini have you seen during the same period of time? Exactly my point.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    SuzyF:
    n

    Time spent above 270km/h is almost 0. I don't think I've only a handful of times ever drive than fast.

    Exactly! Smiley

    That's why I never get these discussions about topspseed and acceleration above 250km/h. It's like discussing the color of your SIM-card... Pointless.

    Maybe it's a typical male thing. A dick measuring contest.  Smiley Smiley

    Today I hit 240 kph (limit with my winter tires) at least 100 times. I'm not kidding ("ding ding, ding ding"...I set two limits in the computer system, so I get a warning when I pass 235 kph and then 240 kph). So try to guess how often I get to drive 270 kph when I have my summer tires. Smiley

    Well, those who have a long and thick one, are in a minority, I agree but they exist. Smiley Smiley

    Smiley

    As to winter driving capabilities: Even the 2WD 911 is a pretty good winter car due to the rear engine design. There are barely traction issues. Yes, the ground clearance actually limits the winter driving capabilities but most Ferrari and Lamborghini drivers, with very few exceptions, leave their cars at home in winter time. Whoever was in those very exclusive winter/skiing resorts in Europe knows how many 911 are seen there in winter time. How many Ferrari or Lamborghini have you seen during the same period of time? Exactly my point.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    here is to winter driving capabilities of the 458:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfQhKOB2WWU

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    That 's nothing more than an idiot driving irresponsible...  Just my humble opinion of course.


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    c'mon suzy, if it was a turbo S you'd say: great drive, super- save and controlled due to AWD/RWS/PCCD + add your favorite porsche acronym. just look closely and you will understand that the driver knows very well what he is doing. btw, what is your comment on turbo S drivers doing regularly 270km/h on the highway? is it safe, even in summer?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    If it was a Turbo S, I would have said the same.  In that condition it's always irresponsible, no matter what car it is. Okay... There's not much traffic on the road and it is at night, but even then I think it irresponsible.

    Driving 270km/h can also be irresponsible. That depends on the circumstances. 240 km/h on a wet Autobahn is also irresponsible in my opinion. Even if the driver knows what he is doing, there is someone sitting next to him and other people on the road can make mistakes that can be fatal to the one driving that fast. People don't expect it....

     

    But like  said... It's MY opinion... If you or others don't agree... Fine. I don 't care a tiny bit. That's why it is MY opinion and not yours...


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    you totally missed the reason why i posted the video. the point i wanted to make is that the 458 can be driven very well in winter, come rain or snow. it is a myth that ferraris, mclarens etc. cannot be used as daily drivers. as RC says correctly, not many owners choose to do it, but the reason is not that it can't be done. actually, it can be done very well, as the video shows. 

    btw, as much as ground clearance is concerned, there is a speed bump infront of my house where my C4S 997 gen II always touched, no matter what the angle of attack was. the F458 passes without issues (and without activating the front lift), my friend in his F12 has no issues either.

    so what i am trying to say is that there is a lot of totally uninformed and biased opinions being spread here on daily drivability. everyone can choose whatever car she/he want, be it a porsche, ferrari or other but before commenting on pros and cons i recommend to to the homework first.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Okay that's fair enough and I also get your point. But one thing you must not forget is that this is a 991 Turbo S thread. I don't see the point of defending a Ferrari 458 in it. If one is interested in buying a 458, that person definitely will go do his or her homework properly and will ask questions about that on a 458-specific thread on this forum or whatever other forum.

    i don't think that much people that have or want a 991 Turbo S are very interested in buying a Ferrari 458 as their daily driver anyways... 

    Almost every car can be driven as a daily driver... It just depends on the requirements of the driver. If one is okay with a very spartanic interior and harsh supsension, one can easily drive an Elise or even a Donkervoort as their daily driver for example...


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SuzyF:

    Okay that's fair enough and I also get your point. But one thing you must not forget is that this is a 991 Turbo S thread. I don't see the point of defending a Ferrari 458 in it. If one is interested in buying a 458, that person definitely will go do his or her homework properly and will ask questions about that on a 458-specific thread on this forum or whatever other forum.

    i don't think that much people that have or want a 991 Turbo S are very interested in buying a Ferrari 458 as their daily driver anyways... 

    Almost every car can be driven as a daily driver... It just depends on the requirements of the driver. If one is okay with a very spartanic interior and harsh supsension, one can easily drive an Elise or even a Donkervoort as their daily driver for example...

    agreed. but don't we all like comparisons? any car that costs 458 money should be compared to it (and to other cars costing likewise), no? very soon there will be a gallardo successor with top styling, audi technology and even AWD. don't you think that comparisons will be interesting and even needed for buyers' sake ? but not to worry, no matter what the tests give, the porsche fans can always counter with 'the classic 911 shape' :::::))))))


     
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