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    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    koko:

    @Peter,

    stop complaining and try to enjoy your car.

    You still want Speciale then go get one. Many are still available for sale with low mileage. Even new ones.

    you know the viennese, don't you?:::))) whining is a way of life:::))))

    p


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:
    koko:

    @Peter,

    stop complaining and try to enjoy your car.

    You still want Speciale then go get one. Many are still available for sale with low mileage. Even new ones.

    you know the viennese, don't you?:::))) whining is a way of life:::))))

    p

     

    Looooool, true that !!


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:

    what you say is totally correct but for me the 488GTB lacks character. i can't put my finger on what it is exactly but it lacks....the additional speed (no denial of that) is totally useless, it can only put me behind bars.

    peter

    interesting comment from a 991GT3RS owner, as this is my exact opinion after driving my friend's 991GT3RS.Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    The problem with Ferrari is they cannot build a perfect car. It might feel so sometimes. But at other times you just feel it is an Italian product and not a Porsche...


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    MKSGR:
    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    The problem with Ferrari is they cannot build a perfect car. It might feel so sometimes. But at other times you just feel it is an Italian product and not a Porsche...

    yes, for the good and the bad.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    i take mine with a fixed roof please:::)))


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    MKSGR:
    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    The problem with Ferrari is they cannot build a perfect car. It might feel so sometimes. But at other times you just feel it is an Italian product and not a Porsche...


    If I want a perfect, sometimes a bit boring product, I'll take a Porsche. If I want a Porsche, I'll take a Porsche. If I want a near perfect product with some (minor) Italian flaws, I can take a Ferrari (any, nowadays). Smiley


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:
    koko:

    @Peter,

    stop complaining and try to enjoy your car.

    You still want Speciale then go get one. Many are still available for sale with low mileage. Even new ones.

    you know the viennese, don't you?:::))) whining is a way of life:::))))

    p

    I only know viennese women and they are beautiful... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    Peter, 

    Character? Or to be fully honest idiosyncrasy?  

    no Kreso. charcater. i mean feeling that the car conveys to you on the road. 

    991 GT3 RS is fantastic car that only makes sense if you drive it above 6000rpm. Can you do it daily or  in the city traffic? No. 

    not true. the RS is a lot of fun (read conveys feelings of driving the car) even at very low revs. 

    488 feels powerfull at low revs as well. When it gets to 6000rpm you are already way faster then RS at 6000rpm.  

    faster, yes, and then so what? more powerful yes and so what?  the 488 did not talk to me, the speciale and the RS do. 

    did you read the ECOTY where the GT4 beat the 488GTB (and the RS)? i fully understand their judgement...

    I am not saying that 488 is a better sportscar then 991 GT3 RS. It sheer rawness it isn't.  

    991 GT3 RS is for me fantastic sportscar. But, for me so is 488 GTB. I would like to exploit their differences on daily basis.

    to exploit the speed of the 488GTB you have to remove even more speed limits than for the other contenders. one thing speaks for the 488 GTB though: the looks. just fantastic, the porsche turbo S looks ridiculously common and bland next to it.

    peter

     

    Peter I shared your view completely. Except the last sentence about the looks. I thin the 488 looks boring compared with the 458 Speciale. Smiley

    The GT3RS is one of the greatest all around car, it is a lot more civilized in town vs the previous generation RSs but it will also ace it on a track. From idle to around 300-3500rpm, the intake roar is magical, doesn't need to rev it all the way past 6000rpm to enjoy the engine.

    The Speciale is a very different beast compared to the 488. 488 seems too "Porsche like" Smiley It doesn't have the same 'drama' like the previous Ferraris, it is almost clinical, like the McLarens. 

     

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Whoopsy:
    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    Peter, 

    Character? Or to be fully honest idiosyncrasy?  

    no Kreso. charcater. i mean feeling that the car conveys to you on the road. 

    991 GT3 RS is fantastic car that only makes sense if you drive it above 6000rpm. Can you do it daily or  in the city traffic? No. 

    not true. the RS is a lot of fun (read conveys feelings of driving the car) even at very low revs. 

    488 feels powerfull at low revs as well. When it gets to 6000rpm you are already way faster then RS at 6000rpm.  

    faster, yes, and then so what? more powerful yes and so what?  the 488 did not talk to me, the speciale and the RS do. 

    did you read the ECOTY where the GT4 beat the 488GTB (and the RS)? i fully understand their judgement...

    I am not saying that 488 is a better sportscar then 991 GT3 RS. It sheer rawness it isn't.  

    991 GT3 RS is for me fantastic sportscar. But, for me so is 488 GTB. I would like to exploit their differences on daily basis.

    to exploit the speed of the 488GTB you have to remove even more speed limits than for the other contenders. one thing speaks for the 488 GTB though: the looks. just fantastic, the porsche turbo S looks ridiculously common and bland next to it.

    peter

     

    Peter I shared your view completely. Except the last sentence about the looks. I thin the 488 looks boring compared with the 458 Speciale. Smiley

    The GT3RS is one of the greatest all around car, it is a lot more civilized in town vs the previous generation RSs but it will also ace it on a track. From idle to around 300-3500rpm, the intake roar is magical, doesn't need to rev it all the way past 6000rpm to enjoy the engine.

    The Speciale is a very different beast compared to the 488. 488 seems too "Porsche like" Smiley It doesn't have the same 'drama' like the previous Ferraris, it is almost clinical, like the McLarens. 

     

     

     

    whoopsy, very true. i even enjoy doing 2K or 3K revs in the RS, the same in the 488 is boring. for me the 488 is a mercedes-type ferrari. almost perfect but clinical.

    cheers peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Like I said before...Ferrari kind of 911-turbofied the 488.  Perfection can sometimes be boring...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    MKSGR:
    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    The problem with Ferrari is they cannot build a perfect car. It might feel so sometimes. But at other times you just feel it is an Italian product and not a Porsche...

    This is actually what is perfect about Ferrari, they´re not perfect Smiley


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    J.Seven:
    MKSGR:
    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 

    --
    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

    The problem with Ferrari is they cannot build a perfect car. It might feel so sometimes. But at other times you just feel it is an Italian product and not a Porsche...

    This is actually what is perfect about Ferrari, they´re not perfect Smiley


    What actually is perfect?

    Is a Porsche Turbo perfect? Too boring, not enough sound.
    A GT3/RS? Too many silly wings, not appropriate for the city.
    A R8? The Audi that tries to be an exotic.
    A 650? Not enough soul, ugly design.
    A Hurracan? Too cramped inside.
    A Speciale? Too loud and tiring over long distances.
    A 488? Too much turbo.

    Everybody feels different, when it comes to perfection. One's "not perfect" may be the ideal car for another.

    As long as "not perfect" doesn't mean quality issues (often the case with Ferrari earlier), I have no problem with imperfection, as long as it doesn't bother me.
     


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Eey, I noticed the GT4 is not in your list. I guess it is because it is perfect smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    bluelines:

    Eey, I noticed the GT4 is not in your list. I guess it is because it is perfect smiley

    I know you are joking Smiley However, @Rossi makes a very valid point. There are whole bunch of really very very good cars that can be used day to day and have wonderful performance and handling characteristics.Its personal preference as to which one feels edges it. The really interesting question is that if you could only have one which one would you have and why? There will be a perfectly valid answer for each car for each person's personal financial and practical circumstances. However, I do take issue with all this the car has "no soul" reason for not buying a car.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Depends what people define by the word "perfect". The 911 Turbo S is perfect...as a daily driver. Honestly. Cannot think of a better car because it provides supercar performance, stealth appearance and an amazing bad weather driving capability and overall reliability. Also, you find a dealer/repair job basically at every corner in Europe.

    I think we try to define the word perfection in a car by the words reliable, unspectacular (in a positive and negative sense) and very good performance. Mostly positive things but unfortunately this may not satisfy every customer, some want a more exotic look, others prefer a louder exhaust/engine sound and so on. Rossi made some good points!


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    bluelines:

    Eey, I noticed the GT4 is not in your list. I guess it is because it is perfect smiley


    Damn, how could I forget. SmileySmileySmiley Smiley

    So either you buy all cars listed (like crayphile Smiley)...

    ... or one GT4. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    GT4 has...manual?

    Here, I did it... indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Rossi:
    J.Seven:
    MKSGR:
    Rossi:

    488 GTB seems to come damn close to the perfect sportscar. Something like a Porsche Turbo with Italian genes. For some there may be too much perfection and not enough exotic touch. If Ferrari gets the Speciale successor right, it could be best of both worlds, with a folding hardtop, please. 

    The problem with Ferrari is they cannot build a perfect car. It might feel so sometimes. But at other times you just feel it is an Italian product and not a Porsche...

    This is actually what is perfect about Ferrari, they´re not perfect Smiley


    What actually is perfect?

    Is a Porsche Turbo perfect? Too boring, not enough sound.
    A GT3/RS? Too many silly wings, not appropriate for the city.
    A R8? The Audi that tries to be an exotic.
    A 650? Not enough soul, ugly design.
    A Hurracan? Too cramped inside.
    A Speciale? Too loud and tiring over long distances.
    A 488? Too much turbo.

    Everybody feels different, when it comes to perfection. One's "not perfect" may be the ideal car for another.

    As long as "not perfect" doesn't mean quality issues (often the case with Ferrari earlier), I have no problem with imperfection, as long as it doesn't bother me.
     


    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     

    Perfect = no technical flaws, details that have never been worked out properly by the engineers.

    The turbo is perfect, I would say. Like all Porsches.

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    RC:

    Depends what people define by the word "perfect". The 911 Turbo S is perfect...as a daily driver. Honestly. Cannot think of a better car because it provides supercar performance, stealth appearance and an amazing bad weather driving capability and overall reliability. Also, you find a dealer/repair job basically at every corner in Europe.

    I think we try to define the word perfection in a car by the words reliable, unspectacular (in a positive and negative sense) and very good performance. Mostly positive things but unfortunately this may not satisfy every customer, some want a more exotic look, others prefer a louder exhaust/engine sound and so on. Rossi made some good points!

    I agree 100%. The car (like other Porsches) is a wonderful product. Just, they need to add more power to get ahead of the competition as in former times Smiley


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    MKSGR:

    Perfect = no technical flaws, details that have never been worked out properly by the engineers.

    The turbo is perfect, I would say. Like all Porsches.

     

    This is a sample "1 of xx" issues it has and I really wouldn't use Porsche and Perfect in the same sentence (not with the current models), whatever happened to all the perfect recalls on 991 models including the hybrid powered 918 ?

    Just saying.... Smiley


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    guys the cars are today more electronic than mechanic..... so all the cars are more or less the same...the 911 as the 993 buid quality is never to come anymore


    --

    993 c2


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    xander71:

    guys the cars are today more electronic than mechanic..... so all the cars are more or less the same...the 911 as the 993 buid quality is never to come anymore

    Great statement Smiley

    Nevertheless - I would never ever compare a Ferrari with a Porsche. Owning a Ferrari is a different story as emotions and exclusivity is on a different planet. A Porsche is "regular" car by now. The brand is not more or less than any other upper class manufacturer. You see Porsche on every single corner and you spot it dozens of time a day, while a Ferrari is still very very rare (unless you are living in Beverly Hills or Hollywood).


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:
    xander71:

    guys the cars are today more electronic than mechanic..... so all the cars are more or less the same...the 911 as the 993 buid quality is never to come anymore

    Great statement Smiley

    Nevertheless - I would never ever compare a Ferrari with a Porsche. Owning a Ferrari is a different story as emotions and exclusivity is on a different planet. A Porsche is "regular" car by now. The brand is not more or less than any other upper class manufacturer. You see Porsche on every single corner and you spot it dozens of time a day, while a Ferrari is still very very rare (unless you are living in Beverly Hills or Hollywood).

    true but the 'event' of driving the GT3RS is very comparable for me to getting in a ferrari.

    peter


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    but in the same time seeing a Porsche on every corner speaks for the quality of the cars. secondly as Porsches are actually driven, they are widely available as used cars and therefore driven by even more people.

    many Porsche owners can afford exotics, but shy away due to their flashiness. so Porsche is a good compromise between having a sports car and not wanting to flash it.

    but as said above, it has made Porsche les exclusive.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    Lars997:
    xander71:

    guys the cars are today more electronic than mechanic..... so all the cars are more or less the same...the 911 as the 993 buid quality is never to come anymore

    Great statement Smiley

    Nevertheless - I would never ever compare a Ferrari with a Porsche. Owning a Ferrari is a different story as emotions and exclusivity is on a different planet. A Porsche is "regular" car by now. The brand is not more or less than any other upper class manufacturer. You see Porsche on every single corner and you spot it dozens of time a day, while a Ferrari is still very very rare (unless you are living in Beverly Hills or Hollywood).

    I could never really enjoy my Ferraris Smiley But I loved all my Porsches Smiley 


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    intouch1:

    but in the same time seeing a Porsche on every corner speaks for the quality of the cars. secondly as Porsches are actually driven, they are widely available as used cars and therefore driven by even more people.

    many Porsche owners can afford exotics, but shy away due to their flashiness. so Porsche is a good compromise between having a sports car and not wanting to flash it.

    but as said above, it has made Porsche les exclusive.

    Very true. My GT500 is a beast, lots of fun to drive but I am horrified by every little problem because my next (trustable) mechanic is 200 km away. Also, I am afraid of possible cost (maintenance/repairs) because I don't have a clue about future cost. 

    One reason I am thinking to finally get that R8 V10 Plus I always wanted, found a pretty attractive car (basically new but for almost half the money of a new one) and I'm negotiating the details with the dealership but they need to take my GT500 in, which is (of course, it is a US car) a serious problem in Germany. I could sell it privately but this is not really easy (most private buyers are not serious, want just to take a test-drive or to negotiate you down seriously on the price, etc.).

    If I ever get a weekend toy again, it will be a German car. Even took my heart off the Huracan because of the above mentioned issues. No time (or nerves) to take care of issues...


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    I wouldn't be overly concerned about issues on the Huracan. Mine feels far better built than my 458s did and although it is early days I've had no issues with it. The Gallardo before it was a pretty solid and reliable car once the early issues with the e-gear clutch were ironed out within 18 months. This is one major benefit of sharing a lot of the tech with Audi.


    Re: 488 GTB/GTS

    ISUK:

    I wouldn't be overly concerned about issues on the Huracan. Mine feels far better built than my 458s did and although it is early days I've had no issues with it. The Gallardo before it was a pretty solid and reliable car once the early issues with the e-gear clutch were ironed out within 18 months. This is one major benefit of sharing a lot of the tech with Audi.

    I'm not necessarily concerned about issues but about what happens when I have some (or even one). The next dealership is 80 km away and it is annoying enough to drive 80 km (40 km to and 40 km back from dealership) with my Jeep. Even worse with my GT500 (200 km forth and back, a total of 400 km).

    There are five Porsche dealerships within a 60 km radius from my home, the closest one is only 5 km away.

    There are around 20 Audi dealerships within a 60 km radius from my home, the closest one is 6 km away.

    I just don't have the time to drive around and worry...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


     
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