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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    bobr:

    It's an awfully big bet on the automotive manufacturers part. Tesla has delivered approximately 150K cars through Q3 2018  in a US auto market where 17million vehicles are sold.  EV's is not a very large segment.  However, Porsche could sell 7,000 - 10,000 Taycans the first year. This is definitely a long-term play on Porsche and VW's part. Their traditional cars sales will provide investment funding to develop/evolve the EV battery technology and new models. I don't see Tesla going it alone as the bigger players enter the market. They will need a partner - probably one of the Chinese auto manufacturers.

     

    Trouble is, no one will buyout Tesla at a hyper inflated price. 

    A fair valuation of Tesla would be in the $75-$125 range, no one is stupid enough to pay 2-3 times the actual value to buy it out. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    At LAST quarter pace Tesla will sell over 320,000 cars in the next year while Porsche wants to sell 7,000 Taycans. Big yawn. The last thing Tesla is scared about is Porsche, especially when it is not sold in quantities for years and does not have a price tag.

    Yes the interior is not at quite top of the segment. But does it matter? I don’t think so because so far Tesla interior with their minimalist design and giant screens is just too different. They don’t compete. And say what you want but a Porsche doing 0-60 in 3.5s when Tesla did it years ago much faster than that will make the vast majority of people at least blink. Plus there is no doubt Tesla will make better interiors when they fell they will need to, and not before. And they can do it anytime they want since they do not follow the 4+3=7 years rule of other manufacturers.

    Design wise, Tesla might not be the best around but this taycan front in pics does not look good at all. And the interior tries to be futuristic but the steering wheel design is completely out of place.

    And you do not even aknowledge the power of OTA updates and no dealership and price haggling model.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    At LAST quarter pace Tesla will sell over 320,000 cars in the next year while Porsche wants to sell 7,000 Taycans. Big yawn.

    Mean while Porsche is laughing all the way to the bank with all the profits they are making selling ICE & EV cars and continue to R&D, and Tesla is going to the bank to beg for more money so the card house doesn't collapse and stay alive. If I were a betting man, I'd know on which horse to put my money on which has a brighter future.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Mmm what is your point? Do you own Porsche/VW shares since we know you do not own Tesla shares?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Mmm what is your point? Do you own Porsche/VW shares since we know you do not own Tesla shares?

    Neither... nor do I have any confirmation bias because of having bought or interested in buying in the near future any of these EV cars. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    You are in a country that doesn’t have the network and the infrastructure for Tesla. How could you even remotely be interested?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    You are in a country that doesn’t have the network and the infrastructure for Tesla. How could you even remotely be interested?

    That is not a problem, even in my city home I have a private garage in the building's garage with its own electrical outlets connected to my up to my flat. And could plug the car in the parking in the clinics I work at as well.

    The problem is that I live in a country were I can enjoy the driving during my commutes (and weekends of course) and not be stuck in slow traffic or in 5 lane highways all moving at the same speed, and I actually enjoy driving, that is why I have always had a 911 as a daily, its part of the quality of life... why would I want an EV for? 


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Exactly, why do you even care? It is not for you one way or the other...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Exactly, why do you even care? It is not for you one way or the other...

    So let me get this straight...unless I have a vested interest and therefore more biased I can't have an opinion on the matter? why do you participate in the 911 threads then? Smiley

     ... joking aside, it is about everybody giving a different point of view on the matter SciFrog, the fact that some don't have as much personal interest one way or the other, only makes them more objective.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     I love my Panamera Turbo, but I am very interested in trying the Taycan when it arrives.  

    Regarding Tesla, brand loyalty will keep many customers even if Taycan is a better car.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Right now the market in Europe for EV is more oriented to compact cars because there is no real high end cars.

    See the sales of Renault Zoe...when Porsche will enter the market, I think they will attract a lot of people and if they price it correctly for a E-Class / 5 Series then it will be a boom kiss

    American cars, in general, have a bad and cheap quality reputation and Tesla is not getting it better.angry

    when the rest of the crowd will enter such as VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes then Tesla will be a memory in Europe.

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    bobr:

    It's an awfully big bet on the automotive manufacturers part. Tesla has delivered approximately 150K cars through Q3 2018  in a US auto market where 17million vehicles are sold.  EV's is not a very large segment.  However, Porsche could sell 7,000 - 10,000 Taycans the first year. This is definitely a long-term play on Porsche and VW's part. Their traditional cars sales will provide investment funding to develop/evolve the EV battery technology and new models. I don't see Tesla going it alone as the bigger players enter the market. They will need a partner - probably one of the Chinese auto manufacturers.

    Yep...indeed. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    FWIW - another consideration often overlooked is the buying process Tesla has pioneered. As I understand it, no one gets a discount (so no one feels ripped off by the dealer - a big thing for millenials). No grubby mysogonistic garage to encounter. Reasonable transparency on trade-ins. Presumably servicing is a different prospect too.

    Personally, I find the Tesla design tedious and many UK fan-boys irksome but you can't deny the disruptor influence to the entire market (which I consider a good thing).

    Thing for me is, EVs are still far too expensive. If it's to be considered a white good, a consumable - I expect it's price tag to match. I'm an ideal candidate for one really - minimal mileage - garage with power to recharge - other vehicles for other use cases - however I'm simply not considering one at the current pricepoint.


    --

    991 Carrera Black Edition, XC90 Black\Black - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    the-missile:

    Right now the market in Europe for EV is more oriented to compact cars because there is no real high end cars.

    See the sales of Renault Zoe...when Porsche will enter the market, I think they will attract a lot of people and if they price it correctly for a E-Class / 5 Series then it will be a boom kiss

    American cars, in general, have a bad and cheap quality reputation and Tesla is not getting it better.angry

    when the rest of the crowd will enter such as VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes then Tesla will be a memory in Europe.

     

    Exactly my thought... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    farina:

    No, I´m talking about the new Taycan and the design of it. You´ve mentioned that you´ve seen a design sketch of the car months ago and my question is: Was it a design sketch of the exterior or the interior and where you´ve seen it. The only sketches I´ve seen are the two in this post. It´s no secret that the design of the Taycan is very similar to the design of the former Mission e concept.

    1539539306191taycan_sketches.jpg

    I will certainly not tell where I saw the sketch Smiley but it was basically the final thing, more of a technical sketch than design study. 

    Not sure what you want to know but if you expect the design of the Mission E study, you may be disappointed. In my humble opinion, the Taycan is some sort of modern Panamera interpretation but I haven't seen the final car live yet, so difficult to tell...

    Porsche plans to sell 20000 in the first year, I'm not sure this is realistic but let's hope Porsche knows their customers better than I do. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    Why not, RC? Smiley We´re not in the Vatican... so obviously nobody is observing us... Smiley But your answer about the final design of the Taycan makes me uncertain. The shape of the car which the company shows in the teaser is very similar to the Mission e concept. Do you think the pics of the car in the teaser (front, side and rear) are fake? Hm... these teaser-pics have nothing in common with the prototype i saw yesterday at the Nürburgring. I´m confused. Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC: What do you think about this statement?abdullah _shafin_1.png


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Jobs are at stake here...this has nothing to do with the Vatican. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    RC: What do you think about this statement?abdullah _shafin_1.png

    Simple: He worked at Porsche. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Some photo's of a test mule taken at the end of September.

    Sept 18 1.JPG

    Sept 18 2.JPG

    Sept 18 3.JPG

    Sept 18 4.JPG

    Sept 18 5.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    At LAST quarter pace Tesla will sell over 320,000 cars in the next year while Porsche wants to sell 7,000 Taycans. Big yawn. The last thing Tesla is scared about is Porsche, especially when it is not sold in quantities for years and does not have a price tag.

    Yes the interior is not at quite top of the segment. But does it matter? I don’t think so because so far Tesla interior with their minimalist design and giant screens is just too different. They don’t compete. And say what you want but a Porsche doing 0-60 in 3.5s when Tesla did it years ago much faster than that will make the vast majority of people at least blink. Plus there is no doubt Tesla will make better interiors when they fell they will need to, and not before. And they can do it anytime they want since they do not follow the 4+3=7 years rule of other manufacturers.

    Design wise, Tesla might not be the best around but this taycan front in pics does not look good at all. And the interior tries to be futuristic but the steering wheel design is completely out of place.

    And you do not even aknowledge the power of OTA updates and no dealership and price haggling model.

     

    That's exactly the same mentality of Nokia, Motorola when Apple joins the party in the phone market.

    The no dealership thing is pretty good, I have to say, for the Americans, no ADM on cars. But the rest of the world had been enjoying that for the longest time, new cars are not sold above MSRP so it's a moot point outside of USA.

    OTA updates are over rated. Maybe others will follows maybe they won't, it's definitely not a deal breaker for most people. Pushed updates are only good if they are bug free. BTW, did you know Porsche already can do OTA updates on the navigation maps? My Cayenne just had that a while ago when it was connected to wifi for the downloads.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ISUK:

    Some photo's of a test mule taken at the end of September.

    Sept 18 1.JPG

    Sept 18 2.JPG

    Sept 18 3.JPG

    Sept 18 4.JPG

    Sept 18 5.JPG

    The test mule actually proves pretty well how the final design will end up... They changed some stuff, made it easier to manufacture/maintain, also compliant to crash standards/etc.. The doors are also another example but it is my understanding that they are working on a solution to go with the initial configuration.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Further generalised info on future EV's from Porsche including a targa Taycan which sounds like it will adopt the 997 style of targa sliding glass roof.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsche-plans-electric-suv-and-tesla-roadster-rivalling-sports-car


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Please look at the pictures which confirm that the rear view (for example) of the Taycan is very similar to the Mission e. If the teaser-pics not resemble the taycan, they must be fake!

    concept_vs_teaser.png


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    1B0CB83F-1494-4207-BD21-F0DACBBAD298.jpegAnd the front.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    farina:

    Please look at the pictures which confirm that the rear view (for example) of the Taycan is very similar to the Mission e. If the teaser-pics not resemble the taycan, they must be fake!

    concept_vs_teaser.png

    You are aware that the Mission E is actually the Taycan?...not really sure what you're getting at. Smiley

    Yes, the Taycan is actually using the rear look of the Mission E but only the backlight and form of the rear, not all (design) details. The Taycan has been slightly "objectified" vs. the Mission E.

    The Mission E is/was a study, the Taycan is the commercial product.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     

     Whoopsy,

    is that the "production" front really, because it looks like computer render of the Mission-e with the concept doors?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Boyko23:
     

     Whoopsy,

    is that the "production" front really, because it looks like computer render of the Mission-e with the concept doors?

    What Whoopsy posted is, I think, a render but it shows, according to what I've heard and seen, (almost) the final thing.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It's CGI for sure, yes. It will be good if final product looks like this... 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC: I really know what I´m writing: The Mission e was the concept and was shown on many exhibitions. And of course the Taycan is the name of the production car. The Taycan was promoted in a teaser on June 2018 and I´ve put the rear of the Mission e concept above (white) and the rear of the Taycan (teaser) under it. They look nearly like the same. The pic Whoopsy posted shows a computer generated image which resembles the Mission e concept. But if you have heard and seen about a thing almost like THIS (Taycan/final thing), i would be very glad! But the front-fenders of this CGI-picture have nothing in common with these fenders of the prototype, which we can see in many spy-shots. And that is the reason for my confusion!


     
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