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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Carlos from Spain:
    J.Seven:
    Carlos:
     

    Of course BMW i3 don't sell because 1. It does not have enough range 2. it's a small city car 3.There is no valid charging infrastructure.

    "If the market asks for it". How can you explain 400k pre-orders of Tesla Model 3? That I call demand from customers if anything.... I can bet that the other car manufacturers wan't a piece of that cake.

    Problem is if Tesla can deliver or not, but saying that the demand is not there Smiley

    Carlos what is the range on the i3 ?

    Hi J. That was actually luke's post but somehow my name appeared in the quote, I wouldn't know about the range of the i3, hopefully someone else here knows Smiley

    Sorry Smiley

    I´ve searched and it´s 130 to 160km with standart batery, it´s low indeed. Can get to 240Km with aditional motor. 


    --

    J.Seven

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    You certainly have a different driving style than I have. 150-180 kph on the German Autobahn? You clearly drive differently than I do. I drove the Tesla S and I'm a huge fan of the gadgetry and the various settings but the driving experience itself and especially in curves or on the Autobahn? No thanks. Not even close to what I want.

    I can imagine driving an ELV in the city though, it is pretty relaxing but on the Autobahn and/or country roads with lots of curves? Not really. Sorry.

    Of course ELV tech will be improved over time, weight will drop, chassis setups will improve and in the end, ELVs will prevail. How soon? Well, this remains to be seen. Right now it seems that Porsche takes the hybrid performance route and I think this is the right one. It keeps the weight down (as much as possible) and it provides additional performance while meeting governmental emissions and fuel consumption standards.

    I can see why a Tesla S or X is an amazing car for speed limited countries but even there, you want to have another, sportier, car for those moments when you want to have more fun.

    As long as ELVs are heavy, have a highly temperature/speed dependent range and it takes more than 10 minutes to completely charge them, I do not really want one. Sorry.

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    J.Seven:
    Carlos from Spain:
    J.Seven:
    Carlos:
     

    Of course BMW i3 don't sell because 1. It does not have enough range 2. it's a small city car 3.There is no valid charging infrastructure.

    "If the market asks for it". How can you explain 400k pre-orders of Tesla Model 3? That I call demand from customers if anything.... I can bet that the other car manufacturers wan't a piece of that cake.

    Problem is if Tesla can deliver or not, but saying that the demand is not there Smiley

    Carlos what is the range on the i3 ?

    Hi J. That was actually luke's post but somehow my name appeared in the quote, I wouldn't know about the range of the i3, hopefully someone else here knows Smiley

    Sorry Smiley

    I´ve searched and it´s 130 to 160km with standart batery, it´s low indeed. Can get to 240Km with aditional motor. 

    The i3 is the most ugly piece of car out there on the roads, together with the Smart and other similar monstrosities. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    The i3 is the most ugly piece of car out there on the roads, together with the Smart and other similar monstrosities. Smiley

    I believe this title belongs to the latest edition of the Prius. Its incredible how they took an ugly car and made it uglier!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    crayphile:
    RC:

    The i3 is the most ugly piece of car out there on the roads, together with the Smart and other similar monstrosities. Smiley

    I believe this title belongs to the latest edition of the Prius. Its incredible how they took an ugly car and made it uglier!

    Oh yes...the Prius as well. Smiley

    Why do ELVs or even hybrids have to look ugly? Smiley The acceptance would be higher with a more pleasing exterior.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    You certainly have a different driving style than I have. 150-180 kph on the German Autobahn? You clearly drive differently than I do. I drove the Tesla S and I'm a huge fan of the gadgetry and the various settings but the driving experience itself and especially in curves or on the Autobahn? No thanks. Not even close to what I want.

    I can imagine driving an ELV in the city though, it is pretty relaxing but on the Autobahn and/or country roads with lots of curves? Not really. Sorry.

    Of course ELV tech will be improved over time, weight will drop, chassis setups will improve and in the end, ELVs will prevail. How soon? Well, this remains to be seen. Right now it seems that Porsche takes the hybrid performance route and I think this is the right one. It keeps the weight down (as much as possible) and it provides additional performance while meeting governmental emissions and fuel consumption standards.

    I can see why a Tesla S or X is an amazing car for speed limited countries but even there, you want to have another, sportier, car for those moments when you want to have more fun.

    As long as ELVs are heavy, have a highly temperature/speed dependent range and it takes more than 10 minutes to completely charge them, I do not really want one. Sorry.

    Yes, we have different driving style, that's for sure. And I'm proud to not have yours to be honest SmileySmiley

    I agree that any of the current Teslas need a complimentary sport car for those days in the twisties and on the track. I also stated this clearly. The same fact applies for the german sedans (7-series, S-class, Panamera). 

    Speaking of weight I don't agree that it's an issue with EVs. It's only an issue with hybrids where the added weight also needs to be carried in the wrong place. Tesla Model S weight 300kg less than the new Panamera 4 e-Hybrid and the Turbo S will be even heavier (+100kg additionally due to the v8). The Panamera 4 e-hybrid has received some lukewarm press in the driving department and at least I had higher expectations. This is even by journalists who got all inclusive stay in South Africa and normally twist the words a bit to secure an invite to the next release party Smiley

    This is the first time that Turbo S might be worse in the handling department than an equivalent Turbo. I honestly hope I'm wrong.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    You will be surprised with the handling of the new Panamera Turbo S. Lots of tweaks to the chassis did wonders. It won't be slower than the Turbo on the track, this is for sure (well, at least this is what I've been told and they are really proud of it).

    The Tesla S drives less sporty than my wife's Cayenne S Diesel as far as I remember, so... ...I guess sportiness isn't really Tesla's forte.

    You seem to suffer from the ELV effect as I call it. When I drove a Cayenne eHybrid for the first time, I was amazed. Fully electric through the city...so much fun. Even drove slower to keep the car in electric mode. After a day or so, this novelty effect wore off. I got bored. 

    The Tesla S test drive was a different story, really loved the drive and especially all that gadgetry and different settings, the central display and whatnot. Amazing tech, especially for someone like me who loves gadgets and new technology.

    Would I get a Tesla as a fourth of fifth car? Hell yes. As the only or second car? Never.

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    absent:

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     

    This is pretty interesting...and could be important to other ELV manufacturers who would need to come up with a more conservative approach to customers. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    absent:

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     

    Subliminal political post. I like your style.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    noone1:
    absent:

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     

    Subliminal political post. I like your style.

    Not quite there yet but I am paying attention... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    noone1:
    absent:

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     

    Subliminal political post. I like your style.

    Not quite there yet but I am paying attention... Smiley

    Fchat taught me how to skate on the edge of a banSmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Nobody gets banned...only the content.  wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    absent:

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     

    That is not true in the Northeast... Tesla is the car of affluent cool smart people.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    ALDO:

    Could we start a new thread about the future of EV.

    To answer the last question:

    Turbo 0-100 km/h 3,6 s, max speed 306 km/h

    Turbo S 0-100 km/h 3,5 s, max speed 310 km/h (from my memories)

    Is this the monster Whoopsy is talking about Smiley because that kind of performance doesn't look anything special to me, more like a rip-off for a 'hybrid' logo to go by the turbo s Smiley

    From the last test against Audi RS7

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twz9mZhCuxc


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    That's about 27 seconds? So about 29-30 seconds to 300km/hr?

    RS7 can't do 50km on electric, it's not a hybrid.

    Anything German that will have 680HP from a sedan?


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    That's about 27 seconds? So about 29-30 seconds to 300km/hr?

     

    The RS7 is more like 32-33s for 0-300kph (based on one recent test in the press). Very impressive for such a car Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    After all, it has 600+HP, more than the regular Panamera Turbo. 

    It is a very attractive option out there consider the price


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:
    absent:

    Another issue, at least here in US, Tesla is getting a similar reputation as Prius, etc, meaning a new favorite car for "greenies", liberals, leftists, illegal immigration supporters, tree huggers and the rest of that particular crowd.

    I would still consider the car if it could fulfill my needs but it did not.

     

    That is not true in the Northeast... Tesla is the car of affluent cool smart people.

    True but then, entire Northeast has that reputation (Prius).Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    After all, it has 600+HP, more than the regular Panamera Turbo. 

    It is a very attractive option out there consider the price

    Porsche is playing the scrooge part here when it comes to HP, despite using the same engine as the Audi why can't they just give you 600hp on the turbo ? How long have they been screwing owners with 500 ~ 550 figure on the Panamera turbo ? The 4.8L can do over 600+ before they decided to downgrade, but they insist on selling you some gadgets with the first sedan world record lap time and lately with a useless 8th gear  Smiley Smiley

    What's even more disappointing is the top speed, 306 km/h vs 310 km/h, while the two American rivals are at 320+ for 100k and 105k  Smiley

    Built a turbo and it comes at 218,718 Euro Smiley

    http://i.imgur.com/RLhYnCG.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/ufRZJlh.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/UPfQVgv.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/cRA3DE5.jpg

    The current Cayenne Turbo is a rare find nowadays, I doubt the Panamera Turbo + Hybrid at $230k+ will be easily spotted, after all, it's a 3 ~ 5 years usage before you'd want to get rid of it (speaking of myself or course) with 0 faults or recalls. Otherwise it ends up being replaced in 3 months max  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    BiTurbo:
    Whoopsy:

    After all, it has 600+HP, more than the regular Panamera Turbo. 

    It is a very attractive option out there consider the price

    Porsche is playing the scrooge part here when it comes to HP, despite using the same engine as the Audi why can't they just give you 600hp on the turbo ? How long have they been screwing owners with 500 ~ 550 figure on the Panamera turbo ? The 4.8L can do over 600+ before they decided to downgrade, but they insist on selling you some gadgets with the first sedan world record lap time and lately with a useless 8th gear  Smiley Smiley

    What's even more disappointing is the top speed, 306 km/h vs 310 km/h, while the two American rivals are at 320+ for 100k and 105k  Smiley

    Built a turbo and it comes at 218,718 Euro Smiley

    http://i.imgur.com/RLhYnCG.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/ufRZJlh.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/UPfQVgv.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/cRA3DE5.jpg

    The current Cayenne Turbo is a rare find nowadays, I doubt the Panamera Turbo + Hybrid at $230k+ will be easily spotted, after all, it's a 3 ~ 5 years usage before you'd want to get rid of it (speaking of myself or course) with 0 faults or recalls. Otherwise it ends up being replaced in 3 months max  Smiley

    That's exactly why I didn't jump in the new Panamera. I can live with the lack of engine sound but in the company of 600+hp AMG's, //M's and RS'es the Panamera Turbo will be the highway looser. And while I can live with not being the fastest with the GT3 RS for the sake of other sensory pleasures, a dead quiet 2t sports/luxury saloon that costs EUR200K must be fast as hell.

    Somehow I don't like the idea of a downgrade from a 580hp 2009 RS6 saloon (which is a keeper) to a 560hp 2013 M5 and then to a 550hp 2017 Panamera...I know that the Panamera is the fastest of them all but still...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:

    That's about 27 seconds? So about 29-30 seconds to 300km/hr?

     

    The RS7 is more like 32-33s for 0-300kph (based on one recent test in the press). Very impressive for such a car Smiley

    SmileyRS7 Performance though...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    After all, it has 600+HP, more than the regular Panamera Turbo. 

    It is a very attractive option out there consider the price

    My Audi dealer had too many RS6 Performance in stock last year, so he offered incredible lease or buying conditions for these cars to get rid of them. Almost got one myself but it just didn't make sense (wife thought I'm crazy) for me, so I didn't. He also has a RS7 Performance with only 6k km and a little bit more than a year old for 109k EUR. 

    These cars are certainly very attractive offers, especially compared to the Panamera Turbo. Of course they are no Porsche though. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Herbaliser:
     

    That's exactly why I didn't jump in the new Panamera. I can live with the lack of engine sound but in the company of 600+hp AMG's, //M's and RS'es the Panamera Turbo will be the highway looser. And while I can live with not being the fastest with the GT3 RS for the sake of other sensory pleasures, a dead quiet 2t sports/luxury saloon that costs EUR200K must be fast as hell.

    Somehow I don't like the idea of a downgrade from a 580hp 2009 RS6 saloon (which is a keeper) to a 560hp 2013 M5 and then to a 550hp 2017 Panamera...I know that the Panamera is the fastest of them all but still...

    The V10 TT  with a simple tweak can take down sportscars on the highway, while Porsche is too busy planning to slap another $100k on the facelift turbo for an additional 20hp, with superior handling which most owners won't be spending their times at.......the track  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    New M5 comes with an optional 630 hp performance option and...AWD. 

    Btw: The S8 Plus is also an interesting alternative. Faster than the RS6 up to 300 kph...5 seconds or so less.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:

    New M5 comes with an optional 630 hp performance option and...AWD. 

    630? Wow...Since we have an agreement with BMW to buy a certain number of cars in the next year, I might end up being oblidged to get an M5 :) The terrible traction was my only complaint about the last one that I head.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Herbaliser:
    RC:

    New M5 comes with an optional 630 hp performance option and...AWD. 

    630? Wow...Since we have an agreement with BMW to buy a certain number of cars in the next year, I might end up being oblidged to get an M5 :) The terrible traction was my only complaint about the last one that I head.

    Base version is rumored to come with 600 or 605 hp, the 630 hp performance package is optional. AWD is also rumored to be optional, not standard. Top speed limited to 305 kph though.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    Herbaliser:
    RC:

    New M5 comes with an optional 630 hp performance option and...AWD. 

    630? Wow...Since we have an agreement with BMW to buy a certain number of cars in the next year, I might end up being oblidged to get an M5 :) The terrible traction was my only complaint about the last one that I head.

    Base version is rumored to come with 600 or 605 hp, the 630 hp performance package is optional. AWD is also rumored to be optional, not standard. Top speed limited to 305 kph though.

    Fabulous cars in the pipeline, can't have'm all, what to do??? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    We rarely see Panamera turbo and turbo S on the roads these days, the are a rip off and people know it.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    We rarely see Panamera turbo and turbo S on the roads these days, the are a rip off and people know it.

    that's true, but compare to a Honda accord or Toyota corolla, ALL our cars are rip off and we know it.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


     
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