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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    RC:
    ALDO:

    Just got a call from my dealer (now Hahn Gruppe). He told me that no customer will get 911 r from him. The owner family decided to take the car for their collection. They do not want to make all the customer angry if they don't get the car and one will get.

    What a bullshit. I asked why not put all names in a bag a let some sexy girl pull one name out. This isn't possible - second bullshit. Porsche is selling 20 cars to their employees on this way. 

    So Hahn decided to make profit with this car. I am not sure if Porsche is amused about this as I am not sure about all the unsatisfied customers.

    Has someone else here made similar  experiences with Hahn Gruppe?

     

    Actually, I heard that Porsche decides who gets a car and who doesn't but why are you surprised that the owner of a dealership wouldn't want a car for himself? He is not obliged to sell it to a customer and since the owner of a dealership has good ties to Porsche... Better than someone who flips the car for a profit (unless the dealer himself does it, which would be a shame).

    No Porsche has no right to decide to whom the dealer sell the car. This applies to the cars the dealer gets by allocation. Porsche can give dealer extra car for special customers, like me. Even in this case the dealer could, theoretically, sell it to someone other. This is by law. Dealer is buying from Porsche Deutschland and after that he can sell it to everyone he likes.

    If you do not want leasing you can make a classical financing with the same interest rates. Then you have the car at the end to a fixed rate.

     

     


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Testdriven : The new Porsche 911 R

    7:36 of just pure driving in the 991R - no commentary! kiss

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmn-VXyFQbw


    --

    Aston Martin V12 Vantage, Morning Frost White, Buckets, Manual

    Cayman GT4, Racing Yellow, PCCB, 918 Style Full Buckets


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    I bought one, but not sure if it wil get much seat time, maybe it a couple times a year if that.

    I just simply don't see it being a better car than the GT3RS

    Having to shift with the shifter is distracting from the pleasure of driving, at least for myself.

    its like going back to the old days where one has to adjust the carburetor severe now and then just so one can start the engine. I know some people who loved to do that but it's not my thing.

     

    Why are you buying it then?  For investment?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:
    Whoopsy:

    I bought one, but not sure if it wil get much seat time, maybe it a couple times a year if that.

    I just simply don't see it being a better car than the GT3RS

    Having to shift with the shifter is distracting from the pleasure of driving, at least for myself.

    its like going back to the old days where one has to adjust the carburetor severe now and then just so one can start the engine. I know some people who loved to do that but it's not my thing.

     

    Why are you buying it then?  For investment?

    Whoopsy buys cars like we buy underwears.  No thinking is involved.  Just do it.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I'm very particular about my underwear.  Have to support the crown jewels properly.  Smiley  Whoopsy talks about how he hates manuals very often, that is why I ask.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Adam2S:

    Testdriven : The new Porsche 911 R

    7:36 of just pure driving in the 991R - no commentary! kiss

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmn-VXyFQbw

    Did you notice it is a LHD car driven on the wrong side of teh road in South Africa (the location of the shoot)? The few corner indicators and traffic signs are facing the wrong way...just a useless fact....


    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2014 991 GT3, 1994 993C2 6spd, 2016 Cayman GT4 (on order)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Gnil:

    The joy killer from the R is it's limited production number . With that it makes it '' too special'' and you can't drive it as you would like to . This car is for collectors, just like the Speedster or the Sports classic was .

    This car would be perfect if not in a limited number, with back seats ( optional ) and a choice of manual or PDK .

    I have hopes it will come in a form or another in the next years .

    I completely agree with you  and I think most here feel the same : that Porsche should produce this VERY TYPE OF CAR as a REGULAR production GT3-engined road focused 911 " GTR "  with only additions being choice of 6MT or PDK and OPTIONAL rear seat delete and slot it between the inevitable coming turbo-motor based  GTS and the bewinged / no rear seats  trackable 991.2 GT3 so that they can be bought by ANYONE and driven WITHOUT investment guilt  and the depreciating miles can be piled on as they now are on the plentiful GTS model 

    Please , Andreas P and your wonderful development team ...we  know many of you read this BOARD and it must drive you all CRAZY to know that all your hard work and passion on this new 911R will just result on a total WORLDWIDE  accumulation of JUST 991,000 total miles for all 991 copies , over the next decade or two , because  of its " special customer/ limited numbers " status 

    Push the Board of Directors on this ! You have plenty of HALO CARS , like the 918 and GT3RS and the rumored  coming 991.2 GT2 / RS , so a car like this 991.1 911R ( and future R -like " strippers " ) should not be a trotted out only as a special reward  dessert for only your current and future VIP clients ! 


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:

    I'm very particular about my underwear.  Have to support the crown jewels properly.  Smiley  Whoopsy talks about how he hates manuals very often, that is why I ask.

    Let me "try" to answer for him again.  He is missing a manual car in his collection.  Besides, he will not lose any money investing in this 911R, so why not?  If I were him (with a 918), I will just buy it as well.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Porsche 911 R -- Driving Footage... (Official Presentation)

    ...time to turn up the volume on that 4.0 litre flat-six! Smiley

    Porsche 911 R -- Driving Footage -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    There will be a similar mass produced car in the future, the next GT3 WILL get a manual transmission option, exactly the same gearbox as in the R with the special gearing AND will a special engine.

    The R is basically a reward for the 918 buyers, no sugar coating that. A lot of us fully expected the car to be worth 500k right off the bat, they all had bad memories from the CGT days. They don't care, they had faith in Porsche to make the best possible car, why they did.

    But they didn't forget the regular folks, that's why the next GT3 will get manual transmission back as an option, and trust me, you WILL want that one. I have seen pictures of the car already.

    This last few days was basically a test from Porsche, they want to see if giving sneak peeks to future products to the 918 VIP works or not. It could be a limited special model or it could be a regular production car. We seems to give them the right customer feedback and programs like this will likely continue. Some of you may not think the 918 owners are worthy of special treatment, cause they are not 'car nut' like they are. Perhaps there are a handful of bad apples, but not all of us and that's why Porsche trust our opinions a little bit more. Within the owners, we are already configuring the car, debating whether we should keep the radio delete or not and/or A/C, plus pushing for PTS. A lot of them actually looking forward to driving a manual again.

    There are multiple owners asking for 2-3 cars. Some have valid status as a multiple 918 owner, while others have special circumstances, other still have their own reasoning. One owner from the UK would like to have 2 so he can keep one with delivery miles and drive the shit out of the other, he's been doing the same thing for all other special cars. I actually also asked for 2 cars. As I can't decide on colours. Initially I wanted a white with green strips, then I also wanted a black one or perhaps PTS. 

    Yes I said I am not sure if I will drive mine or not, but I wanted one, 2 now, just so in the the event that I actually do want to drive, I will have a car in the garage.

    Porsche has been underestimating their demand by quite a bit, sometimes on purpose, other times by accident.

    Here is an example, they were only gonna make 120 GT4CS, thinking only race teams would want them, then there was a discussion and the target was raised to 360 cars. Someone questioned how can they possibly sell 360 non street legal race car. The day it debuted in LA, they had received over 900 orders. They were SHOCKED. They never realized there was such a big demand. I told them I wanted one just so I can horn my skills on their entry level track toy, and many others too, and they finally realized there is a untapped market right there. 

    BTW, the GT4CS will do close to 918 times on most race tracks. Impressive to say the least.

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    what fantastic roads and scenery in South Africa


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:
    Whoopsy:

    I bought one, but not sure if it wil get much seat time, maybe it a couple times a year if that.

    I just simply don't see it being a better car than the GT3RS

    Having to shift with the shifter is distracting from the pleasure of driving, at least for myself.

    its like going back to the old days where one has to adjust the carburetor severe now and then just so one can start the engine. I know some people who loved to do that but it's not my thing.

     

    Why are you buying it then?  For investment?

    because he can::::)))


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    There will be a similar mass produced car in the future, the next GT3 WILL get a manual transmission option, exactly the same gearbox as in the R with the special gearing AND will a special engine.

     

     

     

    I am not clear on your above statement .

    It is a foregone conclusion from AP's interviews that the 991.2.GT3 will be available with this 6MT as an option with either standard or optional single mass flywheel . 

    But , more importantly for us " commoners " ,did they tell you that  going forward , a decision has been made to offer an unlimited / regular production " R " type " purist " model  ( either price -slotted between the GTS and GT3 or between the GT3 and GT3RS depending on their and marketing's sign-off choices of " off the shelf " equipment picked from the two GT# models' parts bins  ) ? 

    Smiley


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Seems like it would be a lot simpler if they just priced this hypothetical model the same as the GT3, and actually called it a GT3, but allowed you to select a "Track Package Delete" at $0, which, if selected:

    • Removes the GT3 Aero bits and replaces them with standard Carrera bits.
    • Puts the rear seats back in.

    Make Manual vs/ PDK another option and they could call it a day and pretty much everyone, it seems, would be able to get what they want and be happy.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    That's what I read: they will make the R a regular production car and that's a great thing, actually lot of great announcements from Porsche.

    As far as Nick post, I just couldn't help thinking that so many things I hate with Ferrari, Porsche is now doing exactly the same. I can understand your enthusiasm now that you are in the Porsche inner circle and you probably are a better ambassador than most other 918 owners. You are not getting the TdF because Ferrari didn't let you buy the LaF yet you try to get two R?

    Surely Porsche will renew the exercise with the next 918 segment. How many will they build seeing the now success of the 918? In principle I like the program where 918 owners get first dib on special models. But TWO? I don't care about the R but if the was the car I wanted and if 918 owners get multiple of a limited production I would be absolutely livid and would boycott Porsche for letting it happen. So glad I don't have to play these silly games to get the cars I want and so glad that I don't try to pursue the supercar segment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    At Porsche 911 prices they should all have gt3 engines.  Or whatever the future turbo equivalent is. There can't be such huge cost saving anymore now that the mezger is gone. Especially if all engines are the same. Manual or PDK of course.  The way it is now I feel like you have a choice between an outlet store version 911 which depreciates like a rock with limited usability (no track days)  or a true Motorsports Porsche which is too precious to drive every day.  We never had this problem with the air cooled cars. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Thanks Whoopsy for the detailed answer, appreciate it.  Very fascinating look into what is going on beyond the scenes.

    Others trying to answer for you saying "because you can" don't quite hit the mark, because you can buy a lot of other cars too but don't.  

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Leawood911:

    ....... The way it is now I feel like you have a choice between an outlet store version 911 which depreciates like a rock with limited usability (no track days)  or a true Motorsports Porsche which is too precious to drive every day.  We never had this problem with the air cooled cars. 

    that is EXACTLY how I feel ...the choice of new 911s is becoming only TWO : 

    1) the easily obtainable versions getting ever more expensive/ luxurious/ " capable" that you can pile miles on since they are all depreciating almost as shockingly as a MBZ AMG model 

    or 

    2)  " hero driver" RS ( track ) and now R ( road ) "  enthusiast " versions too limited therefore too precious to " drive " , even if one can buy one or two with pocket change , since that would be like drinking only $1000 bottles of rare wine, several times a day ....which even the wealthiest 10 people in the world would have trouble sleeping doing ! 

    Smiley

     


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    MKW:
    since that would be like drinking only $1000 bottles of rare wine, several times a day ....which even the wealthiest 10 people in the world would have trouble sleeping doing ! 

    Smiley

    For these 10 people it is not trouble at all, trust me, since it is no trouble even for the ones way down the list...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:
    MKW:
    since that would be like drinking only $1000 bottles of rare wine, several times a day ....which even the wealthiest 10 people in the world would have trouble sleeping doing ! 

    Smiley

    For these 10 people it is not trouble at all, trust me, since it is no trouble even for the ones way down the list...

    then how about their using a newly acquired Picasso as a dartboard or their LaFerrari to haul manure on their farm !

    Smiley

    Smiley

     


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Good one, LOL


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    I love it, and would love to have one. Obviously I don't qualify though. If it really is (another) reward for the 918 guys, then why put it up on the configurator as if mere mortals could buy one? As a customer if feels like a bit of a kick in the nuts..


    --

    2015 911 GT3, 2011 987S, 1964 Type 1


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    MKW:
     

    I am not clear on your above statement .

    It is a foregone conclusion from AP's interviews that the 991.2.GT3 will be available with this 6MT as an option with either standard or optional single mass flywheel . 

    But , more importantly for us " commoners " ,did they tell you that  going forward , a decision has been made to offer an unlimited / regular production " R " type " purist " model  ( either price -slotted between the GTS and GT3 or between the GT3 and GT3RS depending on their and marketing's sign-off choices of " off the shelf " equipment picked from the two GT# models' parts bins  ) ? 

    Smiley


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     

     

    The 911R was basically a pet project for AP, building the car he wants for the street. The fact that a number of Porsche owners also wanted manual is also one of the reasons.

    They are limited by build slots, all the Rs are supposed to be finished by July so the factory can be switched over to the 991.2 completely. 

    But now that they have a gauge on the acceptance level of a manual Motorsports car, they are doing the next GT3 in manual too and from spec alone the next GT3 is a better car, and that one is quite easily obtainable for even non-918 owners.

    Look at it this way, the manual GT3 will be the 'R' 'purist' car for normal customers, the PDK GT3 stays where it is and the PDK-only RS stays at the top of the range.

    Yes they 'stripped' the car down to bare, with no A/C and no stereo, to have a headline busting 1250kg dry weight, but that's it for 'purist' thing. AP said please add back A/C to all of us as the car will be too hot inside. The A/C is a 7kg option. He mentioned that for 2 identical cars no one can notice even a 20kg difference, performance from 0-120 will be identical. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:

    That's what I read: they will make the R a regular production car and that's a great thing, actually lot of great announcements from Porsche.

    As far as Nick post, I just couldn't help thinking that so many things I hate with Ferrari, Porsche is now doing exactly the same. I can understand your enthusiasm now that you are in the Porsche inner circle and you probably are a better ambassador than most other 918 owners. You are not getting the TdF because Ferrari didn't let you buy the LaF yet you try to get two R?

    Surely Porsche will renew the exercise with the next 918 segment. How many will they build seeing the now success of the 918? In principle I like the program where 918 owners get first dib on special models. But TWO? I don't care about the R but if the was the car I wanted and if 918 owners get multiple of a limited production I would be absolutely livid and would boycott Porsche for letting it happen. So glad I don't have to play these silly games to get the cars I want and so glad that I don't try to pursue the supercar segment.

     

    It's no guarantee that I will have the second car, also not very likely. But it doesn't hurt to ask, the worse answer I can get is a no, which is the same as not asking.

    Porsche priced the R relatively cheap for a special limited model, still a good chunk of change but the TdF is much much higher. 

    I have multiple friends who is trying to secure an R though me, or asking for first dib when I sell, the second car is basically an insurance policy, I won't regret if I do indeed end up selling and then missed the car after. 


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    MKW:
    Gnil:

    The joy killer from the R is it's limited production number . With that it makes it '' too special'' and you can't drive it as you would like to . This car is for collectors, just like the Speedster or the Sports classic was .

    This car would be perfect if not in a limited number, with back seats ( optional ) and a choice of manual or PDK .

    I have hopes it will come in a form or another in the next years .

    I completely agree with you  and I think most here feel the same : that Porsche should produce this VERY TYPE OF CAR as a REGULAR production GT3-engined road focused 911 " GTR "  with only additions being choice of 6MT or PDK and OPTIONAL rear seat delete and slot it between the inevitable coming turbo-motor based  GTS and the bewinged / no rear seats  trackable 991.2 GT3 so that they can be bought by ANYONE and driven WITHOUT investment guilt  and the depreciating miles can be piled on as they now are on the plentiful GTS model 

    Please , Andreas P and your wonderful development team ...we  know many of you read this BOARD and it must drive you all CRAZY to know that all your hard work and passion on this new 911R will just result on a total WORLDWIDE  accumulation of JUST 991,000 total miles for all 991 copies , over the next decade or two , because  of its " special customer/ limited numbers " status 

    Push the Board of Directors on this ! You have plenty of HALO CARS , like the 918 and GT3RS and the rumored  coming 991.2 GT2 / RS , so a car like this 991.1 911R ( and future R -like " strippers " ) should not be a trotted out only as a special reward  dessert for only your current and future VIP clients ! 


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     

     

    Well, what makes you think the 918 owners doesn't drive the shit out of theirs and hence you are a more worthy buyer of an R? This is the resentment that I don't get. Why does every other Porsche customers thinks they are better than the 918 buyers? 

    There are only a tiny fraction of 918 buyers who buys up stuff for investment value. Most owners are car NUTS, they really do drive the shit out of their cars, even their 918s. Many tracked theirs regularly, and they also drives the shit out of their RSs too. And that's the one big difference between the 918 owners and 'regular' Porsche customers, we don't see the depreciation as a hinderance for putting miles on a car, even special ones, while the 'regular' customers actually are more likely to keep mileage down as they want to have a higher re-sale value later. 

    Had Porsche sells the 991 911R to regular customers instead of 918 customers first, you will be lucky to see if the total miles accumulated worldwide are even at half of 991,000 miles, as those customers will only see it as an investment and not a car. 

    I have written before, but the next GT3 with manual is the 'replacement' for the 911R, it is a better car one can drive without 'guilt', a regular production model. But then again regular customers sees the GT3 as another 'investment' car that they can drive for a few months without losing money and they won't put miles on it anyway. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    macca993:
    Adam2S:

    Testdriven : The new Porsche 911 R

    7:36 of just pure driving in the 991R - no commentary! kiss

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmn-VXyFQbw

    Did you notice it is a LHD car driven on the wrong side of teh road in South Africa (the location of the shoot)? The few corner indicators and traffic signs are facing the wrong way...just a useless fact....

    One of the very rare place they can hide easily and have roads all to their own . BTW , I know this area and have previously seen mules there , there is a Porsche test center 

    The sound is fantastic , but so would be a GT3 or an RS . I do like to hear the manual gear changes . 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:
    MKW:
    Gnil:

    The joy killer from the R is it's limited production number . With that it makes it '' too special'' and you can't drive it as you would like to . This car is for collectors, just like the Speedster or the Sports classic was .

    This car would be perfect if not in a limited number, with back seats ( optional ) and a choice of manual or PDK .

    I have hopes it will come in a form or another in the next years .

    I completely agree with you  and I think most here feel the same : that Porsche should produce this VERY TYPE OF CAR as a REGULAR production GT3-engined road focused 911 " GTR "  with only additions being choice of 6MT or PDK and OPTIONAL rear seat delete and slot it between the inevitable coming turbo-motor based  GTS and the bewinged / no rear seats  trackable 991.2 GT3 so that they can be bought by ANYONE and driven WITHOUT investment guilt  and the depreciating miles can be piled on as they now are on the plentiful GTS model 

    Please , Andreas P and your wonderful development team ...we  know many of you read this BOARD and it must drive you all CRAZY to know that all your hard work and passion on this new 911R will just result on a total WORLDWIDE  accumulation of JUST 991,000 total miles for all 991 copies , over the next decade or two , because  of its " special customer/ limited numbers " status 

    Push the Board of Directors on this ! You have plenty of HALO CARS , like the 918 and GT3RS and the rumored  coming 991.2 GT2 / RS , so a car like this 991.1 911R ( and future R -like " strippers " ) should not be a trotted out only as a special reward  dessert for only your current and future VIP clients ! 


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     

     

    Well, what makes you think the 918 owners doesn't drive the shit out of theirs and hence you are a more worthy buyer of an R? This is the resentment that I don't get. Why does every other Porsche customers thinks they are better than the 918 buyers? 

    There are only a tiny fraction of 918 buyers who buys up stuff for investment value. Most owners are car NUTS, they really do drive the shit out of their cars, even their 918s. Many tracked theirs regularly, and they also drives the shit out of their RSs too. And that's the one big difference between the 918 owners and 'regular' Porsche customers, we don't see the depreciation as a hinderance for putting miles on a car, even special ones, while the 'regular' customers actually are more likely to keep mileage down as they want to have a higher re-sale value later. 

    Had Porsche sells the 991 911R to regular customers instead of 918 customers first, you will be lucky to see if the total miles accumulated worldwide are even at half of 991,000 miles, as those customers will only see it as an investment and not a car. 

    I have written before, but the next GT3 with manual is the 'replacement' for the 911R, it is a better car one can drive without 'guilt', a regular production model. But then again regular customers sees the GT3 as another 'investment' car that they can drive for a few months without losing money and they won't put miles on it anyway. 

     

    I welcome back a MT in the GT3; but personally have never been a fan of the Subie WRX style wings they have always come with since I do not track but instead drive our scenc world renowned local relatively  low speed Monterey / SF Bay/ Mendocino winding roads so was hoping for a regular production wingless R that one can order and trade in with each 911 generation and can use , miles on the odometer wise, like a new Turbo S which you can always find looking for its first owner at any dalership you walk into !


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    That car might happens depending on the sales mix of manual GT3s. If only a tiny percentage took the manual option then there is no point for Porsche to do it. They are and will be looking at the sales figures for the net GT3 very closely.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Thanks for sharing info with us Whoopsy.

    Appreciated.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    How about one more interesting tidbits.

    Walliser would loved to be able to drive a 918 every day, he can't as they don't have any cars anymore, all the prototypes have been crushed, what's left are the customer cars, press cars and the pre-productions that's being used for events.

    I asked what's his alternative, he can basically order any car he wants, and he ordered a 991.2 Turbo as his daily.

     


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