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    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...



    ?? You do know where the name 'R8' comes from, don't you?



    thinking about it, is there a R8 TDI available ?

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Ok, words are one thing. How many have actually ordered an R8? And how many actually, seriously would, if they had to choose between a 911 and an R8?
    The exclusivity argument doesnt hold water IMO.
    No matter how you look at it, unless they only produced ONE, the Audi brand is a lot less sought after than that of Porsche.
    If the car had been a competitor to the Cayman - and priced that way- , I might have considered it a serious alternative to Porsche.
    But spending the kinda $ on an Audi that you would on a fully specced 997s Cab or similar? Thanks, but no thanks.

    When u dish out that kinda money for a car, you dont wanna explain yourself.
    "What kinda car u drive?"
    -ah, it's an Audi...
    " Oh, ok. Nice...so how's your family? Your wife still a lapdanser?"..
    -But, but, but..it's an R8!!

    I dunno. It's probably "the businessman's sportscar".
    "Drive it without wrinkling your Armani suit".
    But it reminds me of the Skoda Octavia RS: Sure, it might be good, but it's still a Skoda.
    I think Audi might be facing the Z-06 dilemma: Unless they make a car that beats the crap out of the competition at a substantially lower price, and keeps doing that, the established and "classic" sportscar makers will win that battle.
    Audi may be doing well in Le Mans and DTC, but they are still not a sporscar maker. They make quality upscale family cars.
    And now the family car company has built a real sporscar.
    You ask yourself this; Would u rather buy a sportscar from a (albeit huge) factory that primarily produces front engine sedans, or pay the same $ for a sportscar built by a company that has done nothing else for 50 years?

    They build 5000 to begin with. Not because they wanna be exclusive, but because they dont have a choice. I dont even think u can find 5000 affluent people who would rather get an R8 than a 911 or perhaps even Ferrari Dino.
    Only time will tell.

    The R8 might be an abslutely great car, but the brand is just not as exclusive or sought after as Porsche or Ferrari. It's that simple.
    You gotta include branding into the equasion.
    If not, we would all be driving a Ford Ka and wearing H&M rags: I.e. the choice would be a sensible/rational one.


    i agree with some of the thing you said , but the point is you say"not as exclusive or sought after as Porsche or Ferrari" , problem is porsche WAS in the same league than ferrari and lambo , the supercar league, now for me it stands in the sports car league,like the r8 . i also think they made a l,ot of mistakes, like 1 example the launching of the boxster S in MY05 with 280HP ,then in MY 06 engine has been upgraded to 295hp ,if i bought a boxster in 05 i would have been furious.
    i agree that until now porshe name still feels sportier than audi, but the way things are going, the name will soon adjust to be as bmw and audi.
    and BTW audi always had since the early 80's the sport department ,that produced the urquattro that made wonders in rally and was ahead of its time

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    So true

    I think even BMW (that has a reputation for making 'sporty' sedans) realised long ago that it had to differentiate its highest performance cars (the M cars) from the rest of its line up by saying they were developed by its 'Motorsport' division. Audi has made a bad mistake by not doing the same with the R8. Even the 'S' and 'RS' versions are only just different enough (as an overall package) from the regular 'A' cars. You have to look under the bonnet to realise how much more powerful an RS version is. That simply doesn't have the wow factor in my eyes.

    Re: VW Phaeton, it is a flawed branding concept brilliantly executed. The idea of a luxury rival to a Merc S Class made by an 'everyman' manufacturer (such as VW) was doomed to fail from the start. People are simply too snobbish to buy a class-leading sedan made by VW (that also makes the Lupo and Polo).

    Here in the UK, I see Phaetons from time to time (usually company directors driven by a chauffeur) and I have seen on TV programmes regarding used cars, experts recommending a VW Phaeton as being an amazing used car to buy second hand because they depreciate in value like a rock sinks in water but are immaculately built and will last for ever and ever.

    Indeed if you can get hold of a VW Phaeton W12, it's like getting a Bentley without the outside skin and all the snob factor of a Bentley.

    In a way, that may be a good thing since the Bentley Continental GT's name is mud here in the UK. It's dismissed as a 'premiership footballer's car'. Enough said

    The final nail in the Bentley Continental GT coffin is that every time you switch on your satellite dish, those useless free music channels that no one watches (except you when you're channel hopping) all show gangster rappers with diamond teeth getting into their bespoke Mulliner Bentley Continental GTs. As if J Lo wasn't the kiss of death already (with the outrageous stories of his and hers Bentleys for herself and Bennifer when they were still together), these tattoo'ed guys have killed off the prestige factor of Bentley Continental GTs (just like Burberry before it). Only the 'chavs' here in the UK wear Burberry anymore.



    Brand image is hugely important in the mktplace....most buyers aren't hard-core car tech/driving guys...they're simply trying to buy image of status/youth and an attractively styled, fresh-looking car....

    Not surprised that the premium-priced R8 fails to beat a base 997 in subtle driving dynamics/refinement (and realize that lease pmt on a loaded R8 will prob rival that of a 997TT w/PCCB)....simply eval/drive its bigger brothers: G and 640 are priced above counterparts at F/P (and prob have much more costly lease rates/deprec costs and shorter warranties in all major mkts), but L mysteriously struggles to have the best-developed steering precision/feel; best brakes/pedal feel/fade resistance; chassis damping vs bumpy terrain; quick/smooth e-gear; advcd sport seats; etc etc.....

    Similarly, in luxury car land, not clear to me BMW has ever been able to develop class-leading cars in terms of safety/safety innovations; many jaded buyers laugh re: BMW's perenially inept AC systems, even vs the mild CA heat/sun; and the fade-prone brakes and dubious motors/trannies of the allegedly vaunted M series are legendary ....and VW/Bentley seems similarly unremarkable in terms of safety/safety innovations....and the tastelessly gaudy/baroque $200K+ B lacks even primitive luxury features like ventil seats.....

    Ironically, despite much concern re: consolidation of suppliers, fusion/overproduc of brands, etc etc, IMO only P/F/MB have clearly proven a corporate DNA of engineering excellence in terms of performance/safety (F less so re: safety)/comfort/daily-usability....given that capital is cheap and plentiful, my suspicion is that the engineers at P/F/MB are simply smarter, more creative and more effective in translating their knowledge/skills into a more interesting driving product.....lots of imitators/wishful rivals, but mysteriously the imitators struggle w/such basics as steering/brakes/advcd trannies/safety....

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...



    ?? You do know where the name 'R8' comes from, don't you?



    thinking about it, is there a R8 TDI available ?



    Yes, there will be a V12 TDi R8.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Jeannot said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    but the Audi Quattro and their Le Mans participation in recent years do suggest that they aren't as clueless as people think.



    Same argument could be use with Citroen (WRC rally) and Renault (F1)
    Also, did really Audi face big competition at Le Mans?
    I don't think so...
    Unless they engage the R8 in some competition (and if they win big time), I do not see these impacting immediate sales...



    ?? You do know where the name 'R8' comes from, don't you?



    thinking about it, is there a R8 TDI available ?



    Yes, there will be a V12 TDi R8.



    Lol, a world premiere, tractor sound coming from the back seats

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:

    Yes, there will be a V12 TDi R8.



    That would be disastrous for the image in the US.

    Obviously, the R8 price and image was catered for europe and ROW...

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    shin said:

    Yes, there will be a V12 TDi R8.



    That would be disastrous for the image in the US.

    Obviously, the R8 price and image was catered for europe and ROW...



    Regardless, a diesel doesn't have a much better image here. When you buy a sports car, I don't think the consumption is the biggest of your worries .

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:

    Yes, there will be a V12 TDi R8.



    Shin, how do you know If I recall correctly Kreso said in an older thread (where we discussed this topic) that - according to some "insider info"- there won't be a Diesel-engine (though I had some doubts due to some disturbing text in the German sales brochure).
    Regarding image I agree with you and Crash - a Diesel engine certainly would not help to promote a sportscar image of the Audi brand Modern Diesel cars are o.k. for commuting, but the narrow band of usable (high) torque is a pain on any driving fun inspiring winding road. And if you ever drive a Diesel car pedal to the metal on the Autobahn you'd be astonished how thirsty even a Diesel can be

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    As you said correctly NO V12 TDI in R8. Slush box + 335kg V12TDI = 2000kg car!

    One other question-who really wants that kind of car? True sportscar enthusiast? I really doubt in that...

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    shin said:

    Yes, there will be a V12 TDi R8.



    Shin, how do you know If I recall correctly Kreso said in an older thread (where we discussed this topic) that - according to some "insider info"- there won't be a Diesel-engine (though I had some doubts due to some disturbing text in the German sales brochure).
    Regarding image I agree with you and Crash - a Diesel engine certainly would not help to promote a sportscar image of the Audi brand Modern Diesel cars are o.k. for commuting, but the narrow band of usable (high) torque is a pain on any driving fun inspiring winding road. And if you ever drive a Diesel car pedal to the metal on the Autobahn you'd be astonished how thirsty even a Diesel can be



    Well, Wolfgang Hatz did mention it :

    "Audi could offer a diesel version of its new R8 sports car in the future, according to Wolfgang Hatz, Audi's executive director of powertrain development. Hatz made the comments in the latest issue of Italy's Quattroruote magazine.



    Hatz said Audi hopes to improve consumer perception of its diesels by further reducing noisiness of the engines. He said he also hopes Audi will offer a diesel engine in the R8 sports car. The obvious choice would be the V12 TDI motor first used in the R10 race car, and now available in the Audi Q7. The engine produces 500 horsepower and 738 pound-feet of torque."

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Well, Wolfgang Hatz did mention it :

    "Audi could offer a diesel version of its new R8 sports car in the future, according to Wolfgang Hatz, Audi's executive director of powertrain development. Hatz made the comments in the latest issue of Italy's Quattroruote magazine.

    Hatz said Audi hopes to improve consumer perception of its diesels by further reducing noisiness of the engines. He said he also hopes Audi will offer a diesel engine in the R8 sports car. The obvious choice would be the V12 TDI motor first used in the R10 race car, and now available in the Audi Q7. The engine produces 500 horsepower and 738 pound-feet of torque."



    Thanks for the source, Shin
    Sounds like Hatz is in favour of a R8 Diesel, whereas the main board didn't decide about it yet. Maybe Hatz made his comments to test the water how the audience reacts to his proposal. Let's see what will happen

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    R8 = C4S with GT3 engine (dry sump).
    In my view this is deliberate so that there is no internal competition.

    Re: R8 test by French tv

    Quote:
    Bitko said:
    R8 = C4S with GT3 engine (dry sump).


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