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    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    If you're looking for some new thrills, have you tracked your 911 at all?




    Superb advise Easy, I know you're planning some trackdays (your very first ones with the 997S AFAIK) for the upcoming season. I promise it will open a new universe to you If you'll enjoy the experience (I've no doubt about it) the shortlist (poll) will look different afterwards
    Driving in a city like London or on the congested and restricted motorways around London can become pretty boring in almost every car My take is, it's not your car making you think about other options, it's just the missing thrill (driving in a not so sportscar-friendly environment most of the time). There is a medication against that - just get your prescription

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    [...] get some instruction [...]



    I agree. Prior to making another purchase start extracting the capabilities your current car has to offer. This is certainly a great car to start with.

    If you enjoy switching cars on a permanent basis better send a mail to VKSF (aka WBH). And make friends with some premiumcar salesmen.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    If you're looking for some new thrills, have you tracked your 911 at all?






    Superb advise Easy, I know you're planning some trackdays (your very first ones with the 997S AFAIK) for the upcoming season. I promise it will open a new universe to you If you'll enjoy the experience (I've no doubt about it) the shortlist (poll) will look different afterwards
    Driving in a city like London or on the congested and restricted motorways around London can become pretty boring in almost every car My take is, it's not your car making you think about other options, it's just the missing thrill (driving in a not so sportscar-friendly environment most of the time). There is a medication against that - just get your prescription



    Indeed. Learn how to extract the full potential of your C2S before letting it go. Sports cars (and drivers ) do not really come alive until they are tracked.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Here my humble comments on your propositions:
    1.Nothing. Just keep enjoying my 997 C2S Coupe for a few more years at least (not a bad idea)

    2. Trade in for a pre-facelift 997TT Coupe (with GT1 derived engine) I wouldn't do tha, you'd ever be sad not to have the FL.

    3. Trade in for a facelifted 997TT Coupe
    Wait then trade in for a 998TT Coupe (whenever that comes out) Not too bad idea...

    4. Trade in for an Aston Martin V8 Vantage Coupe (never: apart from the excuisit out- and inside design, it doesn't feel like a p at all, it's very good, but misses something..i know because i could drive one for half a day)
    5. Trade in for a Bentley Continental GT Coupe (when you want a beautiful , very quick, comfortable and spacy car, that's the one... altough not new anymore)

    6. Trade in for a BMW M3 Coupe or Convertible with 7 speed DCT gearbox ( no option at all, very everyday looks, it's so tailhappy that it really is difficult to drive without cornering quick and not have smoking tires. The SMG box is [beep], the new one has still to prove it's Ok)
    7. Trade in for a Ferrari F430 Spider (fantastic car, but daily practical car? no way)
    8. Trade in for a Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 Spyder (whenever the new one comes out) Georgeous lines, a beast, i want it immediately, but uncomfortable and indem to the 430)
    9. Trade in for a Maserati Gran Turismo (beautiful, spacy, but oh so vulnerable... i have a client wheeping tears for the moment...)
    10 Trade in for a Jaguar XKR Coupe or Cab (what's that???
    11. Trade in for a Mercedes Benz SL63 AMG (fast faster fastest, but dated imho)


    So this is a very sceptic and hard comment, but you asked for it...

    Some alternatives? I don't have them...
    Track your car!! Or buy an upcomming Audi RS5 as daily driver and track the porsche...while waiting for the 998!

    BTW the tiptronic won't be available anymore on the FL, the PDK will be the only alternative.
    Seemingly porsche took a long time to bring it out but are sure of the extreme good quality of the new gearbox, otherwise they would keep the tip in the program.

    Grtz beltar

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    On the 13th of may there's a trackday on the circuit (former F1) of Zolder in Belgium.
    It's a day of free driving on the circuit with limited paticipants.
    It's for all kind of cars. The circuit is very safe but also quick and variated. For a first and safe event it's really good!
    Spa and the Nordschleiffe are far too dangerous when not experienced.
    We go..; You're invited!

    Trade down

    In Britain you can't drive more than 50 mph without getting more flashes from Gatso's than Paris Hilton gets wearing no knickers.

    Buy a base Boxster, or Caterham, or Elise, or a used 993 and get back to a more visceral experience at lower speeds that won't get you a 6 month ban.

    Stick with it

    I have a similar conundrum but the added complication of needing to be able to leave the car in BR carpark as I commute to CW daily. I also use the rear seats enough to have to steer clear from the Italian exotica - except perhaps the mazzer. For me, the SL is boring. The CGT is looking tired. The BMW? it's interesting to see how many of these are cropping up as finance repos, but I think you already accept this would be a trade down.

    I'm sticking with my C2S until 998 TT. I'll then rethink.

    Re: Stick with it

    Quote:
    bridggar said:
    I have a similar conundrum but the added complication of needing to be able to leave the car in BR carpark as I commute to CW daily. I also use the rear seats enough to have to steer clear from the Italian exotica - except perhaps the mazzer. For me, the SL is boring. The CGT is looking tired. The BMW? it's interesting to see how many of these are cropping up as finance repos, but I think you already accept this would be a trade down.

    I'm sticking with my C2S until 998 TT. I'll then rethink.



    Bridggar, I thought you said a while ago that you have put down deposits at 2 OPC's for the 997 FL Have you now changed your mind

    Re: Stick with it

    I got bored waiting & bought used 997.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    If you're looking for some new thrills, have you tracked your 911 at all?

    IMO, there's no car in the world that spans daily driver to fantastic track machine like a 911.

    If you haven't, I'd get some instruction, get involved with your local PCA chapter, start autocross, etc.



    Do so at your risk. Porsche voids your warranty for failures during track events.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    I know it's not what you asked for, but what about considering a membership in one of GB's many supercar clubs? (ecurie25, P1, ...)

    It would certainly solve your parking problem, and when you need the luggage space on longer trips you can still take your C2S, which is a car that 'll be hard to beat at doing that sort of thing anyway...

    If I were you, I'd consider it, it's like having your beautiful garden, without having to maintain it...

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    The BEST track cars are the cars that perform great, but that you don't give a damn about otherwise... there's nothing more fun than kicking it in an old beat cheap track car... It eliminates the factor of "giving a rat's ass", and allows me to enjoy my experience more thoroughly, and push the ragged-edge without worry... It's the purest experience... Don't tell me that you don't lift a little earlier, eyeball the barricades with a bit more concern, when you're drifting your 6-figure piece of jewelry around the circuit!!

    Rentals make great track cars too!!

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    If you're looking for some new thrills, have you tracked your 911 at all?

    IMO, there's no car in the world that spans daily driver to fantastic track machine like a 911.

    If you haven't, I'd get some instruction, get involved with your local PCA chapter, start autocross, etc.



    Do so at your risk. Porsche voids your warranty for failures during track events.



    There are whispers that PCNA sends spies to the larger events to keep a tab on whos flogging their cars/VINs and then makes sure they aren't able to shaft the company with a warranty claim.

    But what do I know.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    If you're looking for some new thrills, have you tracked your 911 at all?

    IMO, there's no car in the world that spans daily driver to fantastic track machine like a 911.

    If you haven't, I'd get some instruction, get involved with your local PCA chapter, start autocross, etc.



    Do so at your risk. Porsche voids your warranty for failures during track events.



    Failures during track events are extremely rare. This issue got attention because of problems surrounding track use of the first generation of PCCB, but I know of no other issues regarding Porsche warranty claims and track use. Brakes rotors and pads are not covered by most manufacturers warranties. My dealer actually comes out and supports our track events and have reassurred us that warranty claims will not be issues for us.

    Tracking you car can be expensive because it is hard on things like brakes and tires, but the original post in this thread suggests that money is not a big concern.

    I think your post is inflammatory Nick, and like most of your posts, nothing more.

    Porsches are great on the track; track use is encouraged by Porsche. The track is the biggest reason why I drive my Porsche.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Easy, Easy, Easy..

    You spent literally months agonising over the spec' of your car. You stated categorically that you intended to keep it for the long term (I think 10 years was mentioned).

    You said you wanted everything, right down to the last detail, to reflect your personal requirements as depreciation wasn't going to be an issue.

    Now, 16 months on, you've done a complete u-turn..

    Either you've come into extra money or received a sizeable promotion.

    If you start agonising over 'what car' the way you did over 'what spec' and that leads to 'what spec' on 'what car' - you're heading straight for the funny farm.

    Stick with what you've got, my friend - you know it makes sense.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do?

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    or whether I get a M3 to try it now.




    An M3 ,, you gave the M3 image a right good kicking a while back ..

    This surely was one of those pear shape post one does after a hard day at the office , I do them on a frequent basis..

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do?

    I am in a similar position.

    Two year old 997 C2S that I want to change.

    My desposit has been put on a Nissan GT-R. The magazines lie, it isnt quite upto the standard of my 997 inside, but its still bloody impressive.

    It was due to be a 997 turbo. Instead I will save Pounds45'000 and get somthing rarer, equally as quick and certainly a bit of a change!

    ...Mad

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Easy, if this is your first Porsche? If so, wait another 12 months. Nearly, everyone I know - including myself - went through a period of "I need a change" and then a few months after changing cars went back to Porsche! If you have had several Porsche's before. How about an Aston Martin AMV8? Can't think of anything else that you could drive everyday and pretty much park anywhere and get over speed bumps etc... Lambo / Ferrari etc are just not practical - if you get one of them, you really need another car in my opinion.

    Lastly, as John said, I thought this was "the car".

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Hi Easy,

    Looking at your current spec I guess your main criteria is driver satisfaction / fun behind the wheel, even to the extent that you are prepared to look a tool in an F430 or look like a wannabe in a boxster to get the ultimate in driving pleasure. That's the way I am too.

    If you change for any of the above you WILL miss your 911 and not just a little bit. IMO the only car you could replace it with in your list is the F430 which is simply amazing but you will still miss your P car. I do.

    FWIW the M3 is fun but lacks the feel that 911 owners love. You would be very disappointed with a Vantage unless you want the image above all else - which I think you don't. The M3 easily beats the Vantage for driver satisfaction even ignoring price.

    In many parts of London the F430 does not look out of place but on your trips around the UK you will get plonkers following you with camera phones or trying to race you in Golf TDI's.

    It's worth getting the F430 just so you know what it has to offer but I predict you would go back to Porsche.

    I dont live in London so my setup is F430 berlinetta, E92 M3 and boxster S arriving next week. I will probably replace the F430 with the next GT3 but other than that I am settling down to keeping what I have.

    I do think a car club is a good choice for you but you should consider stright rentals as the total cost will probably be less per year and it will be more flexible.

    Whatever you decide, enjoy in good health.

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    Hi Easy,

    Looking at your current spec I guess your main criteria is driver satisfaction / fun behind the wheel, even to the extent that you are prepared to look a tool in an F430 or look like a wannabe in a boxster to get the ultimate in driving pleasure. That's the way I am too.

    If you change for any of the above you WILL miss your 911 and not just a little bit. IMO the only car you could replace it with in your list is the F430 which is simply amazing but you will still miss your P car. I do.

    FWIW the M3 is fun but lacks the feel that 911 owners love. You would be very disappointed with a Vantage unless you want the image above all else - which I think you don't. The M3 easily beats the Vantage for driver satisfaction even ignoring price.

    In many parts of London the F430 does not look out of place but on your trips around the UK you will get plonkers following you with camera phones or trying to race you in Golf TDI's.

    It's worth getting the F430 just so you know what it has to offer but I predict you would go back to Porsche.

    I dont live in London so my setup is F430 berlinetta, E92 M3 and boxster S arriving next week. I will probably replace the F430 with the next GT3 but other than that I am settling down to keeping what I have.

    I do think a car club is a good choice for you but you should consider stright rentals as the total cost will probably be less per year and it will be more flexible.

    Whatever you decide, enjoy in good health.



    +1.

    F430 is wicked. I work in Canary Wharf and spend afterhours driving around London - I see supercars in the least likely locations... For example yesterday an 07 SLR parked on a dodgy street in Cricklewood.

    I think you should cover your P car up for 1 month, and for each of those weekends hire/borrow some other cars - e.g. F430, Gallardo, GT3 etc - then after that month is over, uncover your Porsche and take it out for a long drive, and then decide whch way you want to proceed next...

    It's great you are in such a position - enjoy it!

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Thanks guys for all the great advice with so many great suggestions. You've all given me plenty of food for thought. I'm very grateful that so many of you voted in my poll and made the effort to reply.

    @The Groom: AFAIK e-Gear in the new LP560 is now 40% faster in the fastest setting BTW. The only problem with a facelifted Targa is that it doesn't offer a significant power increase. Plus maybe it doesn't have that cosy feel of the coupe due to the glass roof.

    @nberry: Thanks v much, I really appreciate the feedback. Even if I don't act on it now, I'll remember it for later. One day, health/wealth and other circumstances permitting, I will taste Ferrari ownership but for the time being, I don't think I've exhausted what my current 911 can offer me. I still think it's more an issue of these cars offering 'different' experiences rather than one being inherently more 'special' than the other. Still, although I may not share your view, I do respect your opinion all the same.

    @atporsche: I've decided against the pure GTs/luxo-roadsters. Too soft for me.

    @Silver Bullet, @Porsche-Jeck: such great advice I certainly intend to attend some PDEs, other driving school courses and eventually track events no matter what happens and whether I change my car in future or not. It will open up a whole new dimension to what my car can do and maybe I won't feel like changing cars after all.

    Porsche-Jeck, as ever, my friend, you know me very well and what you wrote is very perceptive indeed. I am very glad you always offer your wisdom so generously whenever it is needed most.

    @mp: it may seem like my choices are all over the place but there is method behind my apparent madness Basically the cars I listed are coupes/cabs that are either pure sportscar, sportscar/GT, pure GT. About budget, I don't mind spending up to GBPounds100k on top of the trade in value of my 997 C2S i.e. about GBPounds150k in total.

    @Ferdie: BTW where is WBH? I haven't read any 'stream of consciousness' posts from him for some time. I may become a bit rusty at trying to decipher his messages

    @beltar: thanks so much for your detailed reply. I am considering coming over to the track day at Zolder. Guess I would just have to consider myself uninsured though.

    @porker: very innovative idea but I need a car not just for the outings/weekend trips but also for all the day to day mundane trips too. However, I just couldn't justify having a 911 AND supercar club membership at the same time. They cost anything from Pounds15k to Pounds25k per year for the better clubs with the better cars.

    @69bossnine: I love the way you think Reminds me of the saying, "a rental car will go on roads where even a 4x4 won't go".

    @John H: yes, I did put a lot of thought into buying/speccing my car and yes, at the time of ordering it, I intended to keep it for a very long time. At the moment, I still intend to do precisely that! I am, after all, very far from being unhappy with my car. I really love it. But if I don't keep it for many years, it won't be because the spec wasn't right

    I'm at least 95% certain to keep hold of it. The rationale for the thread was just to reconsider my options 16 months down the line to see if, after 2 years (including ordering/build time), something new might meet my needs better. A bit like, if you are in a particular job, even if you don't plan to move, you might, on a yearly basis, just reassess your situation and see what else is out there.

    But don't worry, I'm not about to drive myself round the bend over this. It's not like getting my first Porsche. I'm staying grounded and not letting myself float away holding onto some fantasy.

    @throt: yes mate, I still have the same opinion about M3 owners/drivers in London. I guess some of them are the richest thugs around. The car is certainly good but being looked upon as 'one of them' in London is not very appealing.

    @Porky Tokyo: yep, I can well imagine the way people boomerang back to Porsche etc. Yes, I bought it intending to keep it for a long time, and at present, that is still very much my intention after 16 months but nothing is set in stone. But like I said to John H, I'm at least 95% certain to stick with my original decision.

    @Pink Panther: I find yours to be one of the more interesting stories of car ownership on Rennteam. I think we're very alike in respect of what we are looking for. So I especially appreciate the advice you gave me. Thanks v much again.

    @boytronic: thanks - good suggestion Actually, over the Easter weekend, when it wasn't snowing (!), I went for some nice long drives outside London so I definitely know and remember exactly why I love my 911 so much and exactly why I bought it in the first place. As Porsche-Jeck said, driving in London is enough to make anybody scratch their head and wonder whether their car is still as pleasing as ever. But he's 100% right. It's the roads and type of driving within the city that is all wrong not the car. With the right type of driving, a 911 is motoring heaven.

    Once again guys, I can only express a very sincere and heartfelt thank you to all those of you who voted and offered your advice and wisdom to me. It's really very much appreciated.

    All the best,
    Easy

    Re: Thinking about changing cars? What should I do

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Do so at your risk. Porsche voids your warranty for failures during track events.



    Oh please - what a lot of nonsense Nick!

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Yep, I'm sticking with my 997S with no plans to change. Thanks again for all your input guys

    All the best,
    Easy

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Forgive my suspicious mind, but this could be a really good thread to retain loyalty coordinated by a car manufacturer. You don't work for Porsche / get a commission, do you Easy?

    Regarding alternatives I would personally consider the R8, but I understand your concerns re the styling ...

    The only other car I would consider in a similar bracket to the M3 is the Audi RS4. According to Clarkson "you can overtake in gaps smaller than a stripper's knickers". Interesting image.

    But you've decided to stick. Probably good. Any chance of letting me see (even from a passenger perspective) what -20mm / LSD is like? I'm in the London area too (Norf).

    Enjoy your P-Car for the next 8 years!

    SoS.

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Very interesting thread and I have to be honest I too occasionally hanker after a change.

    Perhaps an alternative could be to go a bit less practical for your fast car and get something even more practical/dentworthy for running about?

    I also have a shopping/parking at the airport/carrying MTB car which is Golf TDI which is an excellent way of keeping my feet on the ground and avoiding rusty brakes and dinged doors.

    If you still like your C2S I think that you will struggle to find a more enjoyable car which covers all of the bases so well for regular use as well as still providing a 'sense of ocassion.' OK its not a Ferrari but my C2S still makes me smile when I open the garage door.

    I'm due to replace the Golf next year and I think I'll probably buy another BMW Estate to provide a bit more pleasure than the Golf but still some practicality. It will also positon me better for a GT3 Mk2 which will be more suitable for track and give an even bigger sense of occasion. Or a GT2 Mk2 if I can find the funds!!

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Quote:
    SonOfStig said:
    Forgive my suspicious mind, but this could be a really good thread to retain loyalty coordinated by a car manufacturer. You don't work for Porsche / get a commission, do you Easy?

    ....

    Any chance of letting me see (even from a passenger perspective) what -20mm / LSD is like? I'm in the London area too (Norf).

    ...

    for the next 8 years!



    SoS, honestly, I'm just an ordinary customer just like any other. I don't work for Porsche or any other car manufacturer nor do I get any commission etc. Wish I did get some money though! I'm just a lawyer working for an investment bank.

    Sure, you can have a ride as a passenger in my car. Just send me a PM with your mobile number and we can take it from there.

    I don't know about 8 years! That's a long time and anything can change in that timeframe

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    @john999S: my problem is that I only have 1 car parking space. If I had 2 spaces, I would keep my Porsche and buy a Gallardo Spyder or F430 Spider as an impractical but purely 'fun' car

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Easy,
    Just a small advice from me-keep your car. BUT, my advice is also to arrange a test drive of R8(manual with Magnetic Ride), despite the fact that you do not like the way it looks(here I do not agree with you at all...) you could be supriesed the way it drives...

    Re: Thinking of changing cars? What should I do?

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Easy,
    Just a small advice from me-keep your car. BUT, my advice is also to arrange a test drive of R8(manual with Magnetic Ride), despite the fact that you do not like the way it looks(here I do not agree with you at all...) you could be supriesed the way it drives...



    If you are willing to discount looks and badge in favour of performance and practicality then the GTR is also worth considering.

    But if only thugs drive M3s in London I shudder to think who might drive a GTR.

     
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