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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Im not a Tesla Fan at all but i must admit that the options on the market right now are way down and i think also the Taycan wouldnt change that. Like SciFrog said when its out its already dated.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Has anyone seen a Panamera Sport Turismo on the street?   My  dealer, one of the largest in our region, has not sold one. Is this model a failure? 

    I've only seen one on the road.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I´ve noticed that the front fenders of the Taycan prototype and the new Sport Turismo (and the Cross Turismo Concept) are the same. So i´ve taken a picture from the Cross Turismo Concept and placed it on the left in the teaser image of the new Taycan. In the teaser Porsche uses the trick of the light shining towards the viewer and so the shadow of the windscreen reflects itself in the front hood. And so the illusion of the pronounced front fenders is perfect... Smiley  In all these cars Porsche uses the same parts of the bodywork. The same example can be seen with the Panamera and the Panamera Sport Turismo. So it seems that we must say goodbye to the front fenders of the Mission e Concept...

    porsche_trick.jpg


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The comparison shots confirm that the pronounced front fenders have not made it onto the production car. The big giveaway is the line from the A pillar on the pre-production test cars is almost horizontal before falling away once it has crested the wheel centre line. On the concept this line at the base of the A pillar started below the highest point above the wheel centre line and rose gently up towards it before falling away again to create the effect of the bodywork being tightly draped over the front wheels. It was further accentuated by the strong horizontal shut line that dissected the front wheel arch and carried on into a crease line on each front door. This gave the front hood a clamshell opening that made the front look much cleaner and futuristic when viewed head on thanks to the abscence of normal front hood opening shut lines.

    The clam has been replaced on the production version by a conventional opening hood which further breaks up the flow of those sculpted front fenders. The nice side crease line effect that gave real definition has gone and been replaced by a rather awkward (though necessary) flap that presumably covers the charging socket. The font axle position looks to have been altered as well as the depth of the rear of the front wheel arch to the front of each door has decreased on the production car further changing it's visual proportions. The loss of these key styling features has really altered the aesthetic beauty of the design and moved it from a futuristic looking car to merely a contemporary one IMHO. The B pillar treatment is the worst element of the production car to my eyes as it looks so ungainly. It must be there to meet side impact requirements.

    Concept vs production 5.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    @ISUK: Some months ago, the Head of Battery Electric Vehicles at Porsche, Stefan Weckbach said remarkable things about the design of the new Taycan...

    What else is electrifying? „The design. Just look at the model on the table in front of us – the series-production vehicle will have a very similar appearance. It’s apparent at first glance that this is a Porsche, and a vehicle developed with an eye to the future.“

    Unlike the cameras used as exterior mirrors on the concept vehicle? „The legislation currently in force would make it impossible to offer such a thing around the world in a series-production vehicle. We’ve also had to make other changes to the concept vehicle – some structural, some functional –to prepare it for series production. But the car and the Mission E are surprisingly similar. We recently showed the design-level vehicle to a small group of testers, who were all wowed.“

    WHAT have these people seen?? In my opinion really not the current prototype... broken heart

    Full article:  https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/company/porsche-stefan-weckbach-interview-e-mobility-sports-car-manufacturer-mission-e-head-elec...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    That is a Porsche communication so they are going to talk up the car smiley  There isn't much camo on the mules so as RC said earlier it is pretty easy to see what the final design is going to look like if you have an eye that can see past the tape.

    I recall having a similar to and fro with another bord member before the original Panamera was launched. He had convinced jimself that Porsche had created some sort of elaborate "cocoon" as he called it to hide the true design details. Many of us tried to tell him they hadn't and he was going to end up disappointed when the production car was revealed. Porsche do not use a great amount of camo once their cars are nearing production and the Taycan is following this pattern.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    For comparison here is a Panamera Gen 1 test car and a Panamera Sport Turismo test car. Both had the same sort of camo that the Taycan prototypes are testing in. Once you are familiar with both of the earlier cars you can easily see past the camo and realise how little of it there actually was.

    Panamera wing.JPG

    1540056264510Sport Touring 2.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog,

    You keep missing the big picture about Tesla. Money and debt.

    Without money or new debt they simply have no way of financing anything, not even paying bills for their current productions.

    And Tesla’s system is not ‘upgradable’. The ota can only do software updates, And Tesla is locked into their current  400V system, and that’s yesterday news. They cannot be retrofitted to the current 800V system. Basically the car needed to be torn down to the body shell, change all the wiring, all the electric motors and new battery pack. 

     They basically need to build a new platform in order to take advantage of the 800V system. In other words, they are already outdated compared with everyone else’s that’s coming. 

    Well talking about Tesla might be a moot point if they don’t survive the next cash crunch which is coming in oh 6 months.

    making a few million isn’t count as profitable when they have billions of debt to be serviced. Their order book full but they are not selling any cars to that order book as every single sale from those booked orders are money losing orders. 


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy - if Tesla has sales and keeps building cars they will never have a cash problem. There is so much cash out there to invest that what you fear simply will not happen. And when it comes to existing car companies spending billions to develop products we can say with certainty that the track record is pretty rough. 

    Too many people like me have been paying attention to the vision Elon Musk has and it is far more enticing than any fear of a cash crunch.  This will be a $1000 stock in 12 months. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

      This will be a $1000 stock in 12 months. 

    Smiley please allow me to strongly challenge this statement.Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Leawood911:

    Whoopsy - if Tesla has sales and keeps building cars they will never have a cash problem. There is so much cash out there to invest that what you fear simply will not happen. And when it comes to existing car companies spending billions to develop products we can say with certainty that the track record is pretty rough. 

    Too many people like me have been paying attention to the vision Elon Musk has and it is far more enticing than any fear of a cash crunch.  This will be a $1000 stock in 12 months. 

    Sorry, but in case you haven’t noticed, many many companies have gone bankrupt even when they have sales. It’s called negative cash flow, the more they sells the more money they lose. Which is exactly what’s happening to the Model 3. 

    The compnay is already HEAVILY in debt, hey cannot take on much more debt until their balance sheet improves. But due to the aggressive nature of their ambious plans, they NEEDED a boat load more money, now.

    I don’t see a scenario where Tesla dying completely, 5ye have too strong a cult following for that to happened. Worse case would be for it to go to chapter 11 and come back out being a smaller more focused car maker. Which is what’s best for Tesla right now. They wipe/reorganize the current debt, get a positive cash flow after and use the money to improve their current products and invest in the future, the 800V system.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I do not really understand the emotions around Tesla. Yes they did a hell of a job to open the EV market but it is not profitable company. Elon Musks plan was to make an expensive car Model S and with this profit make the model 3. Tesla never achieved their forcasts and still the stock is "still" high.

    The point is that an energy transition (moving from cubustion to EV) will come at a cost. No way EV will be cheaper or more cost affective. The big question for me is: are Audi/Porsche/VW etc going to make money on the EV's?



    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    I don’t see a scenario where Tesla dying completely, 5ye have too strong a cult following for that to happened. Worse case would be for it to go to chapter 11 and come back out being a smaller more focused car maker. Which is what’s best for Tesla right now. They wipe/reorganize the current debt, get a positive cash flow after and use the money to improve their current products and invest in the future, the 800V system.

     

    Or they are acquired by a larger player who has the Balance Sheet to finance the company's growth whilst servicing debt.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Uber WeWork and Amazon didn’t make any or very little money for a long time, some still don’t. Neither was Apple. Tesla is not that different.

    800V is better but for faster charging mostly. How many will have the juice at home to charge at max capacity? Current Tesla home superchargers are already pushing it.

    Anyhow one day Tesla will just introduce new 800V versions, no need to retrofit.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     I’m not sure what all this fuss is about. There’s plenty of room in the EV market for both Tesla and Porsche to produce and sell successful cars.  If Tesla solves it’s financial challenges, it’s just fine with me if they keep making and selling good products.   And as far as investing billions of dollars and having a “rough“ time ( Leawood), Porsche has successfully done this for the Boxster, the Cayenne ,the Macan, the Panamera and it’s other products.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Uber WeWork and Amazon didn’t make any or very little money for a long time, some still don’t. Neither was Apple. Tesla is not that different.

    800V is better but for faster charging mostly. How many will have the juice at home to charge at max capacity? Current Tesla home superchargers are already pushing it.

    Anyhow one day Tesla will just introduce new 800V versions, no need to retrofit.

    You will laugh about your posts not far in the future, sorry to say... To compare Tesla with Apple or Amazon... I hope you make better investment decisions in real life.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    crayphile:
    Whoopsy:
    I don’t see a scenario where Tesla dying completely, 5ye have too strong a cult following for that to happened. Worse case would be for it to go to chapter 11 and come back out being a smaller more focused car maker. Which is what’s best for Tesla right now. They wipe/reorganize the current debt, get a positive cash flow after and use the money to improve their current products and invest in the future, the 800V system.

     

    Or they are acquired by a larger player who has the Balance Sheet to finance the company's growth whilst servicing debt.

     

    They are too 'expensive' right now to have any sane CEO even thinking about acquiring them.

    Fair market value for Tesla inclusion of their growth potential will be around $80 per share. At a 50% buyout premium that puts it at $120 per share. They are over 100% over priced right now.

    Even for a crazy CEO like Elon Musk, he wouldn't' even pay that for a Tesla buy out. And he practically owns that company.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    the-missile:
      This will be a $1000 stock in 12 months. 

    Smiley please allow me to strongly challenge this statement.Smiley

    I think he meant $100... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Hi!

    Taycan pick-up (delivery center) direct at Hockenheim motor racing circuit ... wow kiss

    Hockenheim circuit delivery center

     

    Cheers


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    -----------------------------------

    BMW i8 * RRS 



    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    the-missile:
      This will be a $1000 stock in 12 months. 

    Smiley please allow me to strongly challenge this statement.Smiley

    I think he meant $100... Smiley Smiley

    RC, what´s your toughts on this ilustration for auto bild.

    43752331_139902450305833_8804813050894484010_n.jpg


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    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    44604484_2190984824507278_6358839551187153324_n.jpg
    43985853_279978812724992_4401387261255906765_n.jpg


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    This is the way this post ends, not with a bang but with a wisper, WOSHHHHHHHHHHHHH


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    These test vehicles seem to be riding very high . Why they insist on the fake exhausts beats me.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    crayphile:

    These test vehicles seem to be riding very high . Why they insist on the fake exhausts beats me.

    Most people who see these are not as aware as we are of what they are actually looking at. So I guess it keeps a certain degree of secrecy from the general public. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Enmanuel:
    crayphile:

    These test vehicles seem to be riding very high . Why they insist on the fake exhausts beats me.

    Most people who see these are not as aware as we are of what they are actually looking at. So I guess it keeps a certain degree of secrecy from the general public. 

    No, I think these exhaust tips are speakers - from them will ring the (recorded) sound of a Carrera GT V10... Smiley


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    4trac:
     

    No, I think these exhaust tips are speakers - from them will ring the (recorded) sound of a Carrera GT V10... Smiley

    Smiley. But only if you pay the extra for Burmester.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I guess my opinion will change when I see the final car, but right now I’m not very excited about the design. Looks like a Panamera with a different – and over designed – front fascia.  A bit bulky as well.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Paulo_Rangel_Melo:
    RC:
    the-missile:
      This will be a $1000 stock in 12 months. 

    Smiley please allow me to strongly challenge this statement.Smiley

    I think he meant $100... Smiley Smiley

    RC, what´s your toughts on this ilustration for auto bild.

    43752331_139902450305833_8804813050894484010_n.jpg

    Front looks good but the proportions look weird, especially in the back.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It´s going to be a very hard challenge... blush

    challenge.png


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Sorry but these are two completely different cars... With a high price tag, a dubious design and specs probably frozen for years when they are outdated before even being on the market, the Taycan might stay a niche product.


     
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